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Wahid Interview

And until recently in Indonesia violent protest was aimed at ejecting the incumbent presidents Suharto and later Habibie. Now through some of the most spirited and destructive demonstrations are pitched at propping up the status quo, supporters of democratically elected President Abdurrahman Wahid are cutting a swathe through east Java calling for the frail but feisty old leader to stay put. Wahid has been embroiled in two corruption scandals, implicated when his masseur and business partner drew down millions of dollars from a government agency, and again when the Sultan of Brunei directed a huge donation directly to the president. That's got his opponents baying for his blood, but Wahid is sitting tight for the time being. He told Evan Williams he's digging in till his term expires in 2004 and alluded to a secret survival deal with his deputy and pretender to the presidency, Megawati Sukarnoputri.

Williams interview with Wahid

Williams: It looks like people are saying you are finished, you know, that your days are numbered, that the parliament is now against, that questions about Megawati's support, etcetera. What's your message, first of all to parliament but also to the rest of the world about your future?

Wahid: My message is don’t be misled by what seems to be the winning side. No, no. I will never step down. I will be in the office. You see, I'm a Muslim, if I'm not Muslim then I can bet with you. I will be here until the end of my term.

Williams: But how can you rule the country with a hostile parliament which has now censured you like this, it looks like you have lost all support in the parliament?

Wahid: Well, hostile now. If you believe in the political process, there is a political process that is taking place now that will make parliament more understand of their own jobs, of their own duties and tasks. Since they are used to Suharto, to Habibie and so forth now, they have to change their mind and it takes time.

Williams: Some parliamentarians have said that they, that they don’t believe, as I said, that you took any money, that you did anything very wrong, but they are worried about the style of management.

Wahid: If they think so, why don’t they talk to me? If style, it can be changed any time, you know. I'm not so valuable as to not to listen to them.

Williams: What's your reaction to the fact that clearly Megawati has allowed the PDI to vote against you like this in the parliament?

Wahid: That is her device of letting the steam out of the party. So now the steam has been out, it is okay. But she said through a messenger to me that, last night, that she will not entertain any kind of special session of MPR.

Williams: So no impeachment?

Wahid: No impeachment.

Williams: And you still believe that the vice president is fully behind you?

Wahid: Oh yes, yes. She's close behind me.

Williams: If violence which is starting does erupt around the country and if you lost the trust of the people because of that, would you then resign?

Wahid: No. That thing will never happen. That's what you think so but I know that will never happen.

Williams: But you called your people out on the streets to show the support -

Wahid: Not to the street no. Letters, statements on the press, many things can be done without putting people into the streets. You see a few days ago I prevented 35,000 people coming to Jakarta to burn the MPR (the People's Consultative Assembly ) building, crazy you know.

Williams: If this gets out of control, violence-wise, and it can happen very easily, it's very dangerous right now.

Wahid: I don’t talk on ifs.

Williams: Okay.

Wahid: I believe, I believe I can handle the matter.

Williams: I mean we keep hearing about mysterious, dark forces in Indonesia etcetera; who do you think was behind this spate of Christmas bombings? What was their motivation?

Wahid: Well I'd say they are extremists. I don’t name names.

Williams: Extremists? The information leads, or seems to lead back to sections of the military again.

Wahid: When you mean section is informal guys, yes, but sections condoned by the, formally by the hierarchy, no.

Williams: And what do you think is there motivation for such a terrible act?

Wahid: Well, they would like to maintain status quo, they don’t like their own presence in the government because they are deprived from, from let's say offices they think they are entitled to.

Williams: So former ministers of government?

Wahid: Former ministers, former generals former everything, but I can say to you that several people you have in mind should not be, you see, be accused without any, let's say, lawful evidences. General Wiranto and then, you see, General Hartono and then General Prabowo, is easy to accuse them because they did, you see, wrong things in the past. But not in this, I know this. I know this exactly.

Williams: What's your fear about the future if, for example, parliament did manage to remove you, what does that mean for Indonesia?

Wahid: Well, I never entertained that. I know precisely the parliament will fail, trying to make me step down from the presidency, it's very dangerous for the democratisation process we have.

Williams: Thank you very much for your time. Good luck in the battle ahead.

Wahid: Okay. There is no battle, because the battle is already won.

Williams: Thank you very much.

Credits:

Reporter Evan Williams

Camera Geoff Clegg

Sound Kate Graham

Editor David Moore

Producer Mavourneen Dineen