Fuelled by a cocktail of drugs, armed robberies are growing more violent and unpredictable.
JANINE COHEN, REPORTER: How many banks have you robbed in your career?
ANTHONY STEVENS, BANK ROBBER: Um...I've been charged with two and been convicted, including those two, of probably six to seven armed robberies. Two of them were banks. That's what I've been charged for and convicted for, so they're the only ones I've done.
JANINE COHEN: They're the only ones you want to talk about?
ANTHONY STEVENS: Yeah. They're the only ones that I have knowledge of.
JANINE COHEN: Almost 80% of bank robberies in Australia take place in Sydney.
BERNIE MATTHEWS, BANK ROBBER: (Aggressively) "Get on the f*^king floor. Do it now. Now." And you just give it to them in a loud voice - probably a lot louder than that.
JANINE COHEN: And police say bank robberies are becoming more random and more violent.
'PAM SMITH', ROBBERY VICTIM: It was a metal doorframe, and as I hit that, I lost consciousness. I fell to the floor and I came to with him still standing over me.
JANINE COHEN: And he had been kicking you?
'PAM SMITH': Yep.
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: Why would you care about the victim? It's the last thing that enters your mind. You don't want to kill him, but if he mucks you around, well, something's gonna happen to him. If you're talking about armed robbery, you're not walking in there with it to show it around. You're not going to have it unloaded. If you're going to carry it, you're gonna have it loaded. Someone tries to stop you, how foolish are they gonna be?
JANINE COHEN: It is not only the bank robbers who treat the victims badly.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL, PSYCHOLOGIST AND TRAUMA COUNSELLOR: You've just had a gun placed here or maybe just in someone's pocket. You're nearly collapsing. You feel like vomiting. You've wet your pants. You're feeling in a shocking traumatised state and someone rings up and says, "How much money did they get?" Like, what's that about?
JANINE COHEN: Tonight on Four Corners, a look at how violent criminals and cost-cutting banks treat those in the firing line.
Back in the '60s and '70s, bank security was left largely to staff. Tellers packed pistols in case of an attempted robbery and were expected to protect the bank.
RUSS CHANDLER, SECURITY CONSULTANT: In the olden days, all the bank tellers had their own firearm which came out with your cash every day.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL: The notion was that, "If someone pulled a gun on me, I could feel just as powerful. I could pull a gun on them."
BERNIE MATTHEWS: When I robbed the Yagoona bank, I took the pistol from the teller's cage. Why they were issued with them? I would assume to try and stop a bank robbery.
JANINE COHEN: Did that work?
BERNIE MATTHEWS: No. No.
GEOFF DERRICK, FINANCIAL SECTOR UNION: We've had some disastrous stories in those early days - circumstances where some of our members actually committed suicide using the bank's revolver.
JANINE COHEN: It's a chapter that banks would prefer to forget.
Years ago, bank tellers had pistols under the counters. Why?
DAVID BELL, CEO, AUSTRALIAN BANKERS' ASSOCIATION: I am not aware that they did. Um...I am just not aware that they did.
JANINE COHEN: The union, in fact, lobbied to stop that practice.
DAVID BELL: Look, that may be the case, and I am not aware of any bank having a policy of allowing their staff to have firearms on them.
GEOFF DERRICK: They know they had pistols. We even had firing ranges on the top of certain bank head offices in Sydney.
JANINE COHEN: Banks may have trouble recalling past security practices, but their critics say bank staff are still too often left exposed to workplace violence.
After banks withdrew the pistols and closed their firing ranges, they did invest in other devices. But this security was expensive and not introduced to all high-risk branches.
(FOOTAGE OF BANK SECURITY SCREENS SNAPPING SHUT. SCREENS READ: "BANDIT ALARM HAS BEEN ACTIVATED. POLICE WILL ARRIVE SHORTLY")
JANINE COHEN: Last year, about 140 banks, including credit unions and building societies, were attacked in NSW. Many of these did not have the latest security. Some banks have been robbed as many as four times and staff exposed to repeated traumas. And the robbers are becoming more violent - carrying sledgehammers, baseball bats and iron bars, which they use on staff.
This woman, who we'll call 'Pam Smith', was a senior bank employee with an unblemished 25-year career until she became the victim of a violent bank robbery. We have protected her identity because she fears reprisals.
'PAM SMITH': They...they just threatened, "Don't touch anything or we'll get you." Basically, as they came into our area, we were just trapped, couldn't go anywhere. Of the three men that came into our area, one of them, um, came towards me. One of them had a gun, had iron bars, one of them had a hunting knife. So it wasn't the type of thing that you could really argue with or be brave with. You just really needed to do what you were told. He stood over me and yelled at me and he was asking for the manager. He looked at me and said, "You ARE the manager," and then demanded to go to where we kept the money. He was carrying an iron bar.
JANINE COHEN: Threatening you with it?
'PAM SMITH': Yep. So, um...he hit me from behind and pushed me into a doorframe. It was a metal doorframe, and as I hit that, I lost consciousness. I fell to the floor and I came to with him still standing over me.
JANINE COHEN: And he'd been kicking you?
'PAM SMITH': Yep. I didn't...obviously I hadn't...didn't know that at the time but I was in pain and I couldn't walk properly, so...
JANINE COHEN: And, what was the evidence that he'd been kicking you?
'PAM SMITH': I had boot marks along my back and towards my buttocks.
JANINE COHEN: So you woke up with this man standing over you?
'PAM SMITH': And, I mean, he had...he was still there. I mean, I didn't... I was dazed, so... He wanted me to get up, so he basically pulled me up and threw me where... into a...a strongroom..., and demanded, you know, me to get money out for him.
JANINE COHEN: Was he threatening you?
'PAM SMITH': Yeah.
JANINE COHEN: What was he saying?
'PAM SMITH': He was calling me charming names.
JANINE COHEN: Like what?
'PAM SMITH': Oh, he called me a b^tch and a slut and all sorts of things like that.
JANINE COHEN: What happened after that?
'PAM SMITH': Well, he actually started walking, coming towards me, and there was a yell from outside from one of his mates and obviously they had to go. So he turned around and he ran out.
JANINE COHEN: Pam Smith sustained serious back injury, including a slipped disc, concussion and severe bruising. She has trouble sitting straight for a long time, has back spasms and is on pain-killers.
But it's not just about the physical injury, is it?
'PAM SMITH': No, I mean, every time.... I mean, even coming to do this today, you kind of get horrified because you think, "What are the repercussions?" While you're conscious and logical, you think, "It's all gonna go away." Then you fall asleep and you have these nice dreams and you think, "It hasn't gone away yet."
JANINE COHEN: Nice dreams?
'PAM SMITH': (Laughs wryly)
JANINE COHEN: Nightmares?
'PAM SMITH': Nightmares, yeah.
JANINE COHEN: Emotionally, how has it left you?
'PAM SMITH': I'm in limbo. I had a career, I had a job, and now I'm somewhere where I'm trying to do the right thing and get to back to where I was and it's been very, very slow.
JANINE COHEN: You don't feel any sympathy for the victims of violent crimes? How do you reconcile that?
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: Oh, look, for victims of violent crime, real violent crime, yes. You know, someone that's been scarred, um...hurt, shot - OK. But these people that... You know, what are they suffering from? They'll tell you anything - that they can't go into a bank that they've worked in anymore or, you know, they can't go to a counter anymore and have someone come up to them because they've got this...some sort of phobia that they've created - I mean, that's absolute bullshit. I mean, they know they're going to work in a bank. They know what happens in banks. Wake up to themselves. All they're trying to do is jump on the gravy train.
JANINE COHEN: Bank robbers may show no empathy for staff and customers, but the union accuses some banks also of not caring. Since 1999, the Financial Sector Union had repeatedly written to the ANZ Bank about its security deficiencies at certain high-risk branches.
Something like 80% of Australian bank robberies happen in NSW. Why do you think this is?
GEOFF DERRICK, FINANCIAL SECTOR UNION: We've got some problems that relate to policing difficulties we had through the first part of the '90s. We've got some recidivist armed robbers who call NSW home. We've had situations where some of our banks just haven't invested properly in good security in their branches and made their branches too easy a target.
JANINE COHEN: One bank that became a target was the Brookvale branch of the ANZ. In a landmark case in the State Industrial Commission late last year, the ANZ pleaded guilty to failing to protect its staff from armed robbery at this branch.
GEOFF DERRICK: They went for a long, long time apparently not caring, from our perspective. They didn't answer letters, they didn't respond to our concerns, certainly didn't respond to concerns raised by our members - their staff - and it seemed that for perhaps a decade ANZ failed to invest properly into their branch network in NSW.
JANINE COHEN: How was the ANZ Brookvale case regarded in the industry?
RUSS CHANDLER, SECURITY CONSULTANT: Unusual, in that the bank pleaded guilty.
JANINE COHEN: The ANZ Bank pleaded guilty recently to failing to protect staff at a Sydney branch. How do you regard that case?
DAVID BELL, CEO, AUSTRALIAN BANKERS' ASSOCIATION: Look, I'm generally aware of that case. I understand that the ANZ Bank has now taken measures to deal with that particular situation.
JANINE COHEN: Is it concerning?
DAVID BELL: Again, I'm only generally aware of that case, and look, it's a matter you'd have to ask the ANZ Bank about.
JANINE COHEN: Four Corners was going to put these questions to the ANZ Bank in a scheduled interview, but it was cancelled after the Australian Bankers' Association spoke to the ANZ about our program.
BERNIE MATTHEWS: Like, in all the time I've robbed banks, they'd never give a damn about the teller. They only give a damn about their money. And, you know, um, that's only from a mug's point of view, from a criminal's point of view.
JANINE COHEN: Bernie Matthews is currently on parole. He was a career bank robber. Matthews was convicted of his first bank robbery in 1969 and claims to have done his last job in 1996.
MICK KENNEDY, NSW DETECTIVE, 1982-1996: Bernie Matthews was a very violent and a very serious criminal. He wasn't someone that could be toyed with. I didn't believe that he was someone that could be played games with. He wasn't dumb at all, you know? He was very street-wise. He was... I suppose in academic terms, you'd call him an organic intellectual.
JANINE COHEN: One of the bank robberies that Matthews admits to was here in Rozelle, in Sydney's inner west. He robbed the ANZ Bank.
BERNIE MATTHEWS: I'd selected the bank, I'd parked the car up the side lane and, um, I had a sawn-off .22 automatic, gloves, balaclava. It was positioned on a main road - on Victoria Road. I selected the bank simply because it was on a main road and people didn't rob banks on a main road, and it had the side street, so I could, you know, get to the getaway car.
I went in, I jumped on the counter, forced everybody onto the floor - customers and banking staff. I got one teller and I threw the bag to him, made him go along to each individual teller's cage and fill the bag. In all of my robberies, I use the voice and my mannerism as the threat and the gun becomes an extension of that threat. It's not a primary tool. The weapon is...sort of underlines the threat. In that particular bank, there was a guy, he crouched, and because I was on a high vantage point on the counter, I could look into the banking chamber and I could look into the area where the customers were. The guy was contemplating something, you could see it, and I pointed the gun at him and said, "Don't do it." And - it was either his wife or his girlfriend - pulled him down and said "No," and laid on the ground. That was it.
OK, it might have been colourful language, might have been gutter language and it might have been abuse and it might have been threats, but the whole name of the game was to get the person to do what you wanted them to do without physically touching them, without physically hurting them.
MICK KENNEDY, NSW DETECTIVE, 1982-1996: Bernie, you know, like... Look, you don't have to hospitalise someone in order that you can be labelled as being violent. I mean, you run into a bank which is filled with ordinary people and you start waving around a machine gun and you start, you know, "Get over there, you f*^king moll," or "Give us the f*^king money or I'll f*^king kill you." I mean, this is...this is pretty full-on stuff.
JANINE COHEN: Did you ever hurt anyone?
BERNIE MATTHEWS: No. Oh, I'll clarify that. I've never physically shot or hurt or physically hurt anybody. No. But traumatised, yeah, I dare say I've traumatised a lot people who were in the bank at the time I robbed them.
ONSCREEN: EXTENDED INTERVIEW...abc.net.au/4corners.
But I don't class 'traumatised' - as in being in the presence of somebody who's robbed a bank - as being in the same equation as somebody who's been pistol-whipped or shot.
JANINE COHEN: But it does have an effect on people, doesn't it?
BERNIE MATTHEWS: Of course it does. Of course it does. And look, I'd be the first to say that and I sympathise with people who were traumatised, but from my point of view, if I was a victim, I'd rather be traumatised psychologically than be shot or be a paraplegic.
JANINE COHEN: Police are alarmed at the increasing violence and high concentration of robberies in Sydney. Banks argue the numbers have declined threefold since the '80s. But the Financial Sector Union mostly attributes the drop to the closure of 600 branches around the State. Bernie Matthews has witnessed the changes. He has spent 18 years in and out of prison, and in that time, he has seen robberies become more drug-driven, less organised and much more volatile.
BERNIE MATTHEWS: Now, you had guys who wouldn't touch heroin. Like, they were from the old school, you know, they... A junkie was basically the lowest of the low. And on a social scale in the jail, that was, you know, the attitude. And then some of these guys started trying it - you know, just a taste here and a taste there. And they got to become addicted to it and then it just spread. And I guess...I guess I'm lucky in that sense that I actually was there and I saw... It was like throwing a drum of petrol on the floor and then throwing a match to it - it just spread like wildfire.
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: Well, it's...there's... Look, there's peer pressure, there's a whole heap of peer pressure. Look, I mean, I'm inside and with these young guys listening to this music these days and it's all about putting another clip in the gun and popping this guy and, you know, no-one gives a stuff and, er... Have a look at the clips - everyone's got heaps of money, heaps of girls and they're always fiddling around with guns and everything. And that's what these guys want, you know? And they get into all the gear and they've got the gun, they've got the... (Laughs) You know, they're in their own movie. And they've a gutful of drugs. Shit, they're not even on this planet - they're somewhere else.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL, TRAUMA COUNSELLOR: What I'm seeing is that people who are conducting bank robberies now are on drugs. They're no longer just simply conducting the bank robbery to buy drugs. They're actually ON drugs when they're doing it. How unpredictable does that make it?
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: You're in the car, you have a shot. Throw the needle on the floor. You go in. Produce your gun. Mate, that's the biggest adrenaline buzz ever. I mean, you've got the shotgun and the gun coming out, bloke's shitting himself, you're in control. It's better than bungee jumping. It's pretty good.
JANINE COHEN: One bank robber who recently committed several armed robberies while high on a cocktail of drugs was Anthony Stevens. Stevens' addiction to drugs started when he tried to block out the memory of child abuse.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I actually went though some...some things as a...as a child that a human being shouldn't have to go through.
JANINE COHEN: Some sort of abuse?
ANTHONY STEVENS: Yeah. Some...some...some, um, combination of abuses.
ROSEMARY STEVENS, ANTHONY'S MOTHER: I think there's ways things can impact on children too if they take on blame. And that's just bottled up and becomes baggage that carts with them, to a point. It has to come out somewhere.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL: Bank robbers are people often, I believe, who are damaged people from the start. Many of them are undereducated or uneducated. Many of them have a long record of being in prison for other things. Some of them are victims themselves of a wide range of crime. And it's my view that they act some of this out. One way of acting out great intrusion, for example, is to become an intruder. And one way to act out great personal violence in one's life is to become very violent in someone else's life.
JANINE COHEN: You didn't know for many years later what actually had happened to Anthony.
ROSEMARY STEVENS: No. I didn't know...I think it was till he was in prison.
ANTHONY STEVENS: In the end, you have to own your own responsibility, don't you? Like, you know, I don't blame any of what I've done or what, you know, what I've been accused of or anything on anyone else. 'Cause in the end, the trip is you have to own your own responsibility for what you do. You know, like, there was other kids there at the time. None of them robbed banks. None of them were heavily involved in drugs. I don't think any of them were involved in drugs. But none of them...certainly weren't heavily.
JANINE COHEN: Stevens became drug-addicted and his mother asked him to move out of their Newcastle home. She lost track of her son for months, until one day she saw him at the local shopping centre.
ROSEMARY STEVENS: I was in the car and he had, like, tracksuits and a hat and gloves, and I thought it was odd. I knew it was him for sure. And carrying a bag and...I just thought it was very odd. And that night on the news, they said that a...a building society had been held up in Warners Bay.
NBN NEWS: There was a robbery from a building society branch at Lake Macquarie this afternoon. An hour before closing time, a man demanded money from the staff of the Greater Building Society at Warners Bay.
ROSEMARY STEVENS: And I can't tell you how I knew. I don't know how I knew that it was Tony. I just did.
ANTHONY STEVENS: (Indicates bank branch) This one, I just walked into this one... uh, and started filling up a bag. I didn't even... I didn't talk to anyone at all and, um, yeah, started filling up a bag. And everyone sort of shit themself and stood at the back of the...the back of the wall there. And I was pretty much unchallenged there at this one. I sort of hit that one, hit that, then down to the end here, into that park. And then over... there's a row of trees over there, over into that. As I say, a change of clothes. I just ripped off the overalls and just walked out like nothing had happened. I come out this street here somewhere and ended up in a backyard. A dog started chasing me, had to jump another fence. Then bloody this woman hanging washing on the line, she started yelling, so I had to get out of her yard.
JANINE COHEN: Two days later, Stevens hit the Newcastle Permanent Building Society at Belmont, only 20 minutes drive from his last robbery. He carefully cased the building before deciding to rob it.
ANTHONY STEVENS: If we hit any other bank in that street, you would have had to enter that bank from the main street. And there's too many people everywhere there. And, um, I mean, you'd get in, you'd get out, but thousands of people would see you. Where...that particular one, you park behind it in the carpark, drop down through the carpark and into the side entrance and only the people actually in the bank would see you.
FIONA SWAN, BANK TELLER: He was mostly in all dark, either dark navy or black pants, long pants, and a jumper and a cap and dark glasses as well. He just slammed through the door and just walked straight over to where my teller was.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I had a bag that had the gun in it. I had that over my shoulder and the gun in my hand and just worked the...your stock thing there. Just walked in and threw the bag to the lady that was behind the counter there.
FIONA SWAN: Just didn't know what to do and was just sort of shaking a bit. I just wanted to give him everything he wanted. And I had hardly any money in my drawer, so I was more concerned I didn't have anything to give him.
JANINE COHEN: Now, the gun he pointed at you - it wasn't loaded. Does that matter?
FIONA SWAN: No. God. Even if he said it wasn't loaded, it wouldn't matter, really. No. No, it wouldn't make any difference at all. We wouldn't know if it's loaded or not. So...it's just big, and it was, um, big.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I walked in there. No-one asked me anything. I didn't have to say a word, just walked in there with a shotgun. People didn't assume I was looking for a home loan. When you're on the trips and that, I think you see things your way. It's like your own little Wild West and you're running the joint. I usually allow myself 40 seconds. I want to be at the door on my way home or on my way out when the police are getting the signal, sort of thing. So, yeah, 30, 40 seconds. In that one, I had a car behind the bank, which is what I drove there in.
CHRIS HARMON, WITNESS: We drove into a carpark in Belmont. It was a large carpark just behind the shopping centre. I looked out the window to see this guy rushing in a big panic to the car beside me. He's sporting a shotgun. He's got a balaclava covering his face at the time. He's ripped the balaclava - which I've heard later was a T-shirt - he's ripped that away from his face, exposing his face. He's put the gun on the car, he's fumbled a great deal, fumbled with the keys of the car and then looked up and he's seen me looking back out the window looking directly at him. He was staring at me, I'd say, in a decision of, "What do I do with this guy?" I thought, "I can now identify this guy and that's something he'll be aware of and he won't want to happen." I'd already begun to look for an escape route from the van. There was no quick way out of the back of my car, away from a shotgun pellet. All I could think about was to drag my son in underneath and have him protected.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I mean, if it was me sitting in the car and someone next to me did that, pulled a balaclava off and had a shotgun in their hand and had a bag in their hand, I'd assume they've just robbed the bank. It's got very little to do with me and I wouldn't look at them.
CHRIS HARMON: He threw the shotgun into the back seat - he'd had it pointing in our general direction. Whether he intentionally pointed it at me or not, it was the eye contact that was scarier than the gun at that point. He threw it in the back seat, started the car up, backed out into the traffic in the carpark. He nearly took out the car backing up, he nearly took out my car coming forward. I thought, "If he rams my car, he won't get out of here cleanly. I'll be in more danger. I hope he can drive."
ANTHONY STEVENS: Yeah, I sort of vaguely remember something similar, hey. But, like, you know, it might have been...it would have been a split second of a terrified thing for him. But again, I had no intention of hurting anyone. And I certainly had no intention of scaring anyone.
JANINE COHEN: Anthony Stevens committed four armed robberies in 16 days and would have continued on his crime spree if his mother had not seen the local television news.
So you knew it was Anthony?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: Yes, yes, by the clothes, and by just...the walk, the face, the hair. I just do. A mother knows so much more. I've spent many sleepless nights working out "What can I do?" I didn't know if I could approach him. I didn't really know where he was, where he lived. I think there was another one or two hold-ups. And one of them, I knew for sure. And I thought, "He's going to be dead shortly."
ANTHONY STEVENS: A shoot-out with police - that's probably the most likely thing that would have happened. And then, you know, I would be dead or one of them would.
ROSEMARY STEVENS: I felt I could live with putting Tony into the police and him going to jail. And one day I need to tell him that. But if I knew all this and didn't put him in and he shot someone... I didn't... I couldn't live with that.
ANTHONY STEVENS: Everything we went through, I know beyond question that she done her best and she handled things the only way she knew how to, you know? And, you know, that's... What else can you ask from your mum, you know?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: It was more than tough love. Uh...I can't imagine anything in my life before then or later that could ever come to that. I thought it was tough love telling him to leave home but I really think it was tougher to go to the police. But I am not sorry that I ever did.
JANINE COHEN: How hard was it knowing that you had a son who was a bank robber?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: I would have to say I was ashamed initially, then guilt-ridden. "Have I done something? Could I have done more?" And you go through all the ifs. And I guess it took probably a good two years into his sentence before I started to think I didn't do it. I don't think any amount of love is going to stop that. I knew how much I loved him and I also knew that he was worth fighting for.
JANINE COHEN: How much do you love him?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: I would love him enough to lay my life on the line for him. I'm very sure of that.
JANINE COHEN: Stevens was sent to prison for six years, where he became a Christian. Unlike most bank robbers, he was remorseful. In prison, he wanted to write to all 22 of his victims, but the trauma he caused ran deep. Only three would accept letters. All refused to meet him.
FIONA SWAN, BANK TELLER: No. No. It's not something you want to bring back up again. Um...you just want to forget about it and you really don't want to meet him. You don't want to put a face to what happened, really.
CHRIS HARMON, WITNESS: It might seem a really lovely thing from welfare workers to say "Please contact these people and apologise." I don't care! I don't want him near my life. I didn't want him in my life in the first place. I still don't.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I fully understand everyone in them banks hating me, know what I mean? I completely understand that.
JANINE COHEN: Is "Sorry" good enough?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: Probably not for him or for them. 'Sorry' is a pretty easily used word. And I don't think a single word compensates for what their lives... It would be a life-changing thing.
JANINE COHEN: It is not just the banks' security failures and the violence of an attack that cause the victims great trauma. There is also the question of what happens to the victims after the event. Four Corners interviewed several bank staff who after being severely traumatised or injured in a violent bank robbery have been demoted or dismissed. They would not come on camera because they feared repercussions from their employers.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL, TRAUMA COUNSELLOR: This is victimisation going on by the banking industry itself. I mean, aren't they exactly doing what the robbers are doing, except they're just doing it in a more devious way?
GEOFF DERRICK, FINANCIAL SECTOR UNION: It's a brave person that takes full use of their rights, and it's a nonsense to suggest that somehow the people who are at the forefront of workplace violence are somehow the culprits and taking advantage of the poor banks.
'PAM SMITH', ROBBERY VICTIM: I went back to work, um, on a part-time basis for a few months... um, about three months after the incident and, um, because I couldn't work full-time, my employer decided they didn't want me there.
JANINE COHEN: How did that make you feel?
'PAM SMITH': Pretty useless. Once I arrived in this part-time position, I was basically asked to sign documentation to reduce my position from a managerial status to a clerk. And I found that... I was disgusted and devastated. They've reduced my salary, they've stopped paying my physio expenses because they just don't understand. I mean, for every step forward, you seem to go, you know, three or four steps backwards. And just trying to get somebody there that's going to assist you... I mean, I wouldn't have tried to go back if I didn't want to... You would have thought that they would have found something. But then there's taints and stigmas and you get passed from new boss to new boss and nobody really knows what your situation is and I think you just become a bit of a blur on their system.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL: Secondary injury is something that I think is being missed entirely by the community in banking. It's not being looked at at all.
JANINE COHEN: What is secondary injury?
MICHELLE MULVIHILL: Well, secondary injury happens when an organisation fails to agree that what actually happened, in reality, happened. So the injury that happened from the robber is the primary injury. The secondary trauma that happens out of that is far harder to treat.
ONSCREEN: EXTENDED INTERVIEW...abc.net.au/4corners.
JANINE COHEN: The day after Four Corners interviewed Pam Smith, the bank stopped paying her salary.
Should banks be duty-bound to find people other jobs after they've been traumatised in a bank robbery?
DAVID BELL, CEO, AUSTRALIAN BANKERS' ASSOCIATION: Again, that's a very difficult one for the industry to answer because employment policies are the province of the individual banks.
JANINE COHEN: It's a moral question. Should a bank look after a long-term staff member after they have been injured or traumatised in a bank robbery?
DAVID BELL: I think the general principle applies that banks want to look after their customers and staff. These are clearly traumatic and violent events that occur, and as an industry, clearly we have the interests of our customers and staff at heart.
JANINE COHEN: Does it concern you that Four Corners has spoken to a number of people that have been traumatised and injured in bank robberies and they say that the bank has not supported them? In fact, in some cases the bank have cast them aside, they've been dismissed, they've been demoted, they've had their mortgages foreclosed on. Would that concern you if that was happening?
DAVID BELL: I think that if people have been put in that situation then they should...they should speak to their bank about it that employed them. Again, it's difficult for me...
JANINE COHEN: But as a spokesman for the industry, if that was true... I accept that you don't know about those individual cases, but if it was true, would that concern you?
DAVID BELL: It is very difficult for me to answer that question because I don't know the individual circumstances to which you are referring.
JANINE COHEN: I'm not asking you to refer to the individual circumstances. I'm asking you, if it was true that banks were not supporting their staff after bank robberies, would you be concerned as the industry spokesperson?
DAVID BELL: I would be surprised if individual banks did not support their staff and customers. At the forefront of our minds always is the safety and security of our customers and staff.
JANINE COHEN: Four Corners has obtained a document from 2000 that reveals what some in the banking industry really think of the victims. It is a draft of a document presented by two senior bank security executives on behalf of the Australian Bankers' Association to an armed robbery forum. It said, "Unions and Workcover scrutinise each attack and staff involved seek to exploit any departure from the guidelines. Victim mentality is alive and well." Russ Chandler, now a banking security consultant, was the co-author of this report.
Do you believe that?
RUSS CHANDLER: In the main, that is correct, yes.
JANINE COHEN: You don't think it's a bit harsh?
RUSS CHANDLER: Look, the banks are large institutions, have big networks and, uh...certainly take security very seriously. And sometimes things fall through the cracks...and, um, maybe there's a process being undertaken at a time and it's not completed and something...an incident goes down. So, uh, certainly staff take advantage of that. They do. Um, if I was in their place, maybe I would too.
JANINE COHEN: It says "Victim mentality is alive and well." Do you agree?
DAVID BELL: I don't have any information about that particular document. It may have been produced before my time as head of the ABA.
JANINE COHEN: There's also been the critics coming from inside the banks who have said there's a victim mentality. Do you think that's harsh?
JOHN HOWIE, CEO, JEWELLERS ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA: I think it probably is. I think anyone who puts themselves in that situation, it's got to be devastating. The evidence before us is that the same people that are robbing jewellery stores are also robbing banks. And those robberies have mainly been with violence - people dressed in balaclavas, with sledgehammers, who come in with full menace, yelling and screaming, frighten the death out of the customers and the owners of the store, smash everything that they possibly can.
JANINE COHEN: This same document also reveals why banks are reluctant for compensation claims to go to court. It says, "To protect brand and knowing they have little chance of success, a more likely outcome will be an out-of-court settlement. Details of these are usually confidential and not for publication."
In that same ABA document that you authored, you say that cases of employees taking their bank to court for failing to protect them should be settled out of court. Why?
RUSS CHANDLER: Um... Certainly, trauma caused to staff is a major concern.
JANINE COHEN: What about bad publicity for banks?
RUSS CHANDLER: Banks don't like bad publicity, regardless of what it is and certainly try to avoid that at all costs.
JANINE COHEN: And especially with these sort of cases?
RUSS CHANDLER: Well, certainly with these sorts of cases, yes.
JANINE COHEN: As well as trying to get restitution from a bank, victims can also apply for compensation from State governments. But these schemes, although well-intended, have had some unforeseen difficulties. State governments fund the programs, but often have trouble recovering the money from the convicted offenders.
BERNIE MATTHEWS, BANK ROBBER: All that's doing is telling him, "Listen, you'd better get out and rob a couple more banks to pay your bills."
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: I mean, where is the mind of these people that make these rules and regulations, you know? Where is their mind? I mean, can't anybody understand that? The guy's in jail, he's got no dough, yet they're giving him a bill? Wake up to themselves.
JANINE COHEN: What would you do if you got a bill?
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: If I got a bill? Wipe my arse with it and flush it.
JANINE COHEN: Anthony Stevens received a series of victims-of-crimes bills while still in prison totalling $23,000, which he says he intends to pay. But while in prison, he says inmates talked about robbing banks to pay their bills.
ANTHONY STEVENS: Some people want to project the appearance of going straight, and in order to do that, they're gonna have to get rid of this bill, and in order to do that, it's gonna be another bank, isn't it? You know, like, another bank covered up, no-one knows who it was, bang, pay the bill and give their appearance again of going straight.
JANINE COHEN: These convicted criminals are saying that these bills are putting pressure on them to commit more crime.
JOHN LE BRETON, DIRECTOR, NSW VICTIM SERVICES: Mmm. Well, look, quite frankly, that's nonsense. The reality is that we adjust, and appropriately adjust, the rate at which people have to repay according to their means and capacity to do that. And that's why there's a mechanism in there to assess individual circumstances, and I wouldn't accept the fact that our approaches in any way incite or encourage people to commit further crimes.
JANINE COHEN: But do you think their attitude to paying back these bills is sort of symptomatic of their attitude to their victims generally?
JOHN LE BRETON: I think for some that's certainly the case, that they are disdainful of their victims, that they show no remorse, and consequently they are going to be less than keen in paying back to a government agency funds for...as a result of the implications of the offence that they committed.
JANINE COHEN: Bank staff may no longer pack pistols and be expected to defend the bank in a shoot-out like they did in the '60s and '70s. But many are still in the firing line.
ONSCREEN: 'Pam Smith', with the help of the union, has just negotiated a return to work for 12 hours a week. But her future is uncertain. Her lawyer is in negotiations with the bank.
Anthony Stevens finished parole last month but says he will be 93 before he finishes paying his victims-of-crime bill.
Bernie Matthews' parole ends in October 2006.
JANINE COHEN, REPORTER: How many banks have you robbed in your career?
ANTHONY STEVENS, BANK ROBBER: Um...I've been charged with two and been convicted, including those two, of probably six to seven armed robberies. Two of them were banks. That's what I've been charged for and convicted for, so they're the only ones I've done.
JANINE COHEN: They're the only ones you want to talk about?
ANTHONY STEVENS: Yeah. They're the only ones that I have knowledge of.
JANINE COHEN: Almost 80% of bank robberies in Australia take place in Sydney.
BERNIE MATTHEWS, BANK ROBBER: (Aggressively) "Get on the f*^king floor. Do it now. Now." And you just give it to them in a loud voice - probably a lot louder than that.
JANINE COHEN: And police say bank robberies are becoming more random and more violent.
'PAM SMITH', ROBBERY VICTIM: It was a metal doorframe, and as I hit that, I lost consciousness. I fell to the floor and I came to with him still standing over me.
JANINE COHEN: And he had been kicking you?
'PAM SMITH': Yep.
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: Why would you care about the victim? It's the last thing that enters your mind. You don't want to kill him, but if he mucks you around, well, something's gonna happen to him. If you're talking about armed robbery, you're not walking in there with it to show it around. You're not going to have it unloaded. If you're going to carry it, you're gonna have it loaded. Someone tries to stop you, how foolish are they gonna be?
JANINE COHEN: It is not only the bank robbers who treat the victims badly.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL, PSYCHOLOGIST AND TRAUMA COUNSELLOR: You've just had a gun placed here or maybe just in someone's pocket. You're nearly collapsing. You feel like vomiting. You've wet your pants. You're feeling in a shocking traumatised state and someone rings up and says, "How much money did they get?" Like, what's that about?
JANINE COHEN: Tonight on Four Corners, a look at how violent criminals and cost-cutting banks treat those in the firing line.
Back in the '60s and '70s, bank security was left largely to staff. Tellers packed pistols in case of an attempted robbery and were expected to protect the bank.
RUSS CHANDLER, SECURITY CONSULTANT: In the olden days, all the bank tellers had their own firearm which came out with your cash every day.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL: The notion was that, "If someone pulled a gun on me, I could feel just as powerful. I could pull a gun on them."
BERNIE MATTHEWS: When I robbed the Yagoona bank, I took the pistol from the teller's cage. Why they were issued with them? I would assume to try and stop a bank robbery.
JANINE COHEN: Did that work?
BERNIE MATTHEWS: No. No.
GEOFF DERRICK, FINANCIAL SECTOR UNION: We've had some disastrous stories in those early days - circumstances where some of our members actually committed suicide using the bank's revolver.
JANINE COHEN: It's a chapter that banks would prefer to forget.
Years ago, bank tellers had pistols under the counters. Why?
DAVID BELL, CEO, AUSTRALIAN BANKERS' ASSOCIATION: I am not aware that they did. Um...I am just not aware that they did.
JANINE COHEN: The union, in fact, lobbied to stop that practice.
DAVID BELL: Look, that may be the case, and I am not aware of any bank having a policy of allowing their staff to have firearms on them.
GEOFF DERRICK: They know they had pistols. We even had firing ranges on the top of certain bank head offices in Sydney.
JANINE COHEN: Banks may have trouble recalling past security practices, but their critics say bank staff are still too often left exposed to workplace violence.
After banks withdrew the pistols and closed their firing ranges, they did invest in other devices. But this security was expensive and not introduced to all high-risk branches.
(FOOTAGE OF BANK SECURITY SCREENS SNAPPING SHUT. SCREENS READ: "BANDIT ALARM HAS BEEN ACTIVATED. POLICE WILL ARRIVE SHORTLY")
JANINE COHEN: Last year, about 140 banks, including credit unions and building societies, were attacked in NSW. Many of these did not have the latest security. Some banks have been robbed as many as four times and staff exposed to repeated traumas. And the robbers are becoming more violent - carrying sledgehammers, baseball bats and iron bars, which they use on staff.
This woman, who we'll call 'Pam Smith', was a senior bank employee with an unblemished 25-year career until she became the victim of a violent bank robbery. We have protected her identity because she fears reprisals.
'PAM SMITH': They...they just threatened, "Don't touch anything or we'll get you." Basically, as they came into our area, we were just trapped, couldn't go anywhere. Of the three men that came into our area, one of them, um, came towards me. One of them had a gun, had iron bars, one of them had a hunting knife. So it wasn't the type of thing that you could really argue with or be brave with. You just really needed to do what you were told. He stood over me and yelled at me and he was asking for the manager. He looked at me and said, "You ARE the manager," and then demanded to go to where we kept the money. He was carrying an iron bar.
JANINE COHEN: Threatening you with it?
'PAM SMITH': Yep. So, um...he hit me from behind and pushed me into a doorframe. It was a metal doorframe, and as I hit that, I lost consciousness. I fell to the floor and I came to with him still standing over me.
JANINE COHEN: And he'd been kicking you?
'PAM SMITH': Yep. I didn't...obviously I hadn't...didn't know that at the time but I was in pain and I couldn't walk properly, so...
JANINE COHEN: And, what was the evidence that he'd been kicking you?
'PAM SMITH': I had boot marks along my back and towards my buttocks.
JANINE COHEN: So you woke up with this man standing over you?
'PAM SMITH': And, I mean, he had...he was still there. I mean, I didn't... I was dazed, so... He wanted me to get up, so he basically pulled me up and threw me where... into a...a strongroom..., and demanded, you know, me to get money out for him.
JANINE COHEN: Was he threatening you?
'PAM SMITH': Yeah.
JANINE COHEN: What was he saying?
'PAM SMITH': He was calling me charming names.
JANINE COHEN: Like what?
'PAM SMITH': Oh, he called me a b^tch and a slut and all sorts of things like that.
JANINE COHEN: What happened after that?
'PAM SMITH': Well, he actually started walking, coming towards me, and there was a yell from outside from one of his mates and obviously they had to go. So he turned around and he ran out.
JANINE COHEN: Pam Smith sustained serious back injury, including a slipped disc, concussion and severe bruising. She has trouble sitting straight for a long time, has back spasms and is on pain-killers.
But it's not just about the physical injury, is it?
'PAM SMITH': No, I mean, every time.... I mean, even coming to do this today, you kind of get horrified because you think, "What are the repercussions?" While you're conscious and logical, you think, "It's all gonna go away." Then you fall asleep and you have these nice dreams and you think, "It hasn't gone away yet."
JANINE COHEN: Nice dreams?
'PAM SMITH': (Laughs wryly)
JANINE COHEN: Nightmares?
'PAM SMITH': Nightmares, yeah.
JANINE COHEN: Emotionally, how has it left you?
'PAM SMITH': I'm in limbo. I had a career, I had a job, and now I'm somewhere where I'm trying to do the right thing and get to back to where I was and it's been very, very slow.
JANINE COHEN: You don't feel any sympathy for the victims of violent crimes? How do you reconcile that?
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: Oh, look, for victims of violent crime, real violent crime, yes. You know, someone that's been scarred, um...hurt, shot - OK. But these people that... You know, what are they suffering from? They'll tell you anything - that they can't go into a bank that they've worked in anymore or, you know, they can't go to a counter anymore and have someone come up to them because they've got this...some sort of phobia that they've created - I mean, that's absolute bullshit. I mean, they know they're going to work in a bank. They know what happens in banks. Wake up to themselves. All they're trying to do is jump on the gravy train.
JANINE COHEN: Bank robbers may show no empathy for staff and customers, but the union accuses some banks also of not caring. Since 1999, the Financial Sector Union had repeatedly written to the ANZ Bank about its security deficiencies at certain high-risk branches.
Something like 80% of Australian bank robberies happen in NSW. Why do you think this is?
GEOFF DERRICK, FINANCIAL SECTOR UNION: We've got some problems that relate to policing difficulties we had through the first part of the '90s. We've got some recidivist armed robbers who call NSW home. We've had situations where some of our banks just haven't invested properly in good security in their branches and made their branches too easy a target.
JANINE COHEN: One bank that became a target was the Brookvale branch of the ANZ. In a landmark case in the State Industrial Commission late last year, the ANZ pleaded guilty to failing to protect its staff from armed robbery at this branch.
GEOFF DERRICK: They went for a long, long time apparently not caring, from our perspective. They didn't answer letters, they didn't respond to our concerns, certainly didn't respond to concerns raised by our members - their staff - and it seemed that for perhaps a decade ANZ failed to invest properly into their branch network in NSW.
JANINE COHEN: How was the ANZ Brookvale case regarded in the industry?
RUSS CHANDLER, SECURITY CONSULTANT: Unusual, in that the bank pleaded guilty.
JANINE COHEN: The ANZ Bank pleaded guilty recently to failing to protect staff at a Sydney branch. How do you regard that case?
DAVID BELL, CEO, AUSTRALIAN BANKERS' ASSOCIATION: Look, I'm generally aware of that case. I understand that the ANZ Bank has now taken measures to deal with that particular situation.
JANINE COHEN: Is it concerning?
DAVID BELL: Again, I'm only generally aware of that case, and look, it's a matter you'd have to ask the ANZ Bank about.
JANINE COHEN: Four Corners was going to put these questions to the ANZ Bank in a scheduled interview, but it was cancelled after the Australian Bankers' Association spoke to the ANZ about our program.
BERNIE MATTHEWS: Like, in all the time I've robbed banks, they'd never give a damn about the teller. They only give a damn about their money. And, you know, um, that's only from a mug's point of view, from a criminal's point of view.
JANINE COHEN: Bernie Matthews is currently on parole. He was a career bank robber. Matthews was convicted of his first bank robbery in 1969 and claims to have done his last job in 1996.
MICK KENNEDY, NSW DETECTIVE, 1982-1996: Bernie Matthews was a very violent and a very serious criminal. He wasn't someone that could be toyed with. I didn't believe that he was someone that could be played games with. He wasn't dumb at all, you know? He was very street-wise. He was... I suppose in academic terms, you'd call him an organic intellectual.
JANINE COHEN: One of the bank robberies that Matthews admits to was here in Rozelle, in Sydney's inner west. He robbed the ANZ Bank.
BERNIE MATTHEWS: I'd selected the bank, I'd parked the car up the side lane and, um, I had a sawn-off .22 automatic, gloves, balaclava. It was positioned on a main road - on Victoria Road. I selected the bank simply because it was on a main road and people didn't rob banks on a main road, and it had the side street, so I could, you know, get to the getaway car.
I went in, I jumped on the counter, forced everybody onto the floor - customers and banking staff. I got one teller and I threw the bag to him, made him go along to each individual teller's cage and fill the bag. In all of my robberies, I use the voice and my mannerism as the threat and the gun becomes an extension of that threat. It's not a primary tool. The weapon is...sort of underlines the threat. In that particular bank, there was a guy, he crouched, and because I was on a high vantage point on the counter, I could look into the banking chamber and I could look into the area where the customers were. The guy was contemplating something, you could see it, and I pointed the gun at him and said, "Don't do it." And - it was either his wife or his girlfriend - pulled him down and said "No," and laid on the ground. That was it.
OK, it might have been colourful language, might have been gutter language and it might have been abuse and it might have been threats, but the whole name of the game was to get the person to do what you wanted them to do without physically touching them, without physically hurting them.
MICK KENNEDY, NSW DETECTIVE, 1982-1996: Bernie, you know, like... Look, you don't have to hospitalise someone in order that you can be labelled as being violent. I mean, you run into a bank which is filled with ordinary people and you start waving around a machine gun and you start, you know, "Get over there, you f*^king moll," or "Give us the f*^king money or I'll f*^king kill you." I mean, this is...this is pretty full-on stuff.
JANINE COHEN: Did you ever hurt anyone?
BERNIE MATTHEWS: No. Oh, I'll clarify that. I've never physically shot or hurt or physically hurt anybody. No. But traumatised, yeah, I dare say I've traumatised a lot people who were in the bank at the time I robbed them.
ONSCREEN: EXTENDED INTERVIEW...abc.net.au/4corners.
But I don't class 'traumatised' - as in being in the presence of somebody who's robbed a bank - as being in the same equation as somebody who's been pistol-whipped or shot.
JANINE COHEN: But it does have an effect on people, doesn't it?
BERNIE MATTHEWS: Of course it does. Of course it does. And look, I'd be the first to say that and I sympathise with people who were traumatised, but from my point of view, if I was a victim, I'd rather be traumatised psychologically than be shot or be a paraplegic.
JANINE COHEN: Police are alarmed at the increasing violence and high concentration of robberies in Sydney. Banks argue the numbers have declined threefold since the '80s. But the Financial Sector Union mostly attributes the drop to the closure of 600 branches around the State. Bernie Matthews has witnessed the changes. He has spent 18 years in and out of prison, and in that time, he has seen robberies become more drug-driven, less organised and much more volatile.
BERNIE MATTHEWS: Now, you had guys who wouldn't touch heroin. Like, they were from the old school, you know, they... A junkie was basically the lowest of the low. And on a social scale in the jail, that was, you know, the attitude. And then some of these guys started trying it - you know, just a taste here and a taste there. And they got to become addicted to it and then it just spread. And I guess...I guess I'm lucky in that sense that I actually was there and I saw... It was like throwing a drum of petrol on the floor and then throwing a match to it - it just spread like wildfire.
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: Well, it's...there's... Look, there's peer pressure, there's a whole heap of peer pressure. Look, I mean, I'm inside and with these young guys listening to this music these days and it's all about putting another clip in the gun and popping this guy and, you know, no-one gives a stuff and, er... Have a look at the clips - everyone's got heaps of money, heaps of girls and they're always fiddling around with guns and everything. And that's what these guys want, you know? And they get into all the gear and they've got the gun, they've got the... (Laughs) You know, they're in their own movie. And they've a gutful of drugs. Shit, they're not even on this planet - they're somewhere else.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL, TRAUMA COUNSELLOR: What I'm seeing is that people who are conducting bank robberies now are on drugs. They're no longer just simply conducting the bank robbery to buy drugs. They're actually ON drugs when they're doing it. How unpredictable does that make it?
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: You're in the car, you have a shot. Throw the needle on the floor. You go in. Produce your gun. Mate, that's the biggest adrenaline buzz ever. I mean, you've got the shotgun and the gun coming out, bloke's shitting himself, you're in control. It's better than bungee jumping. It's pretty good.
JANINE COHEN: One bank robber who recently committed several armed robberies while high on a cocktail of drugs was Anthony Stevens. Stevens' addiction to drugs started when he tried to block out the memory of child abuse.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I actually went though some...some things as a...as a child that a human being shouldn't have to go through.
JANINE COHEN: Some sort of abuse?
ANTHONY STEVENS: Yeah. Some...some...some, um, combination of abuses.
ROSEMARY STEVENS, ANTHONY'S MOTHER: I think there's ways things can impact on children too if they take on blame. And that's just bottled up and becomes baggage that carts with them, to a point. It has to come out somewhere.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL: Bank robbers are people often, I believe, who are damaged people from the start. Many of them are undereducated or uneducated. Many of them have a long record of being in prison for other things. Some of them are victims themselves of a wide range of crime. And it's my view that they act some of this out. One way of acting out great intrusion, for example, is to become an intruder. And one way to act out great personal violence in one's life is to become very violent in someone else's life.
JANINE COHEN: You didn't know for many years later what actually had happened to Anthony.
ROSEMARY STEVENS: No. I didn't know...I think it was till he was in prison.
ANTHONY STEVENS: In the end, you have to own your own responsibility, don't you? Like, you know, I don't blame any of what I've done or what, you know, what I've been accused of or anything on anyone else. 'Cause in the end, the trip is you have to own your own responsibility for what you do. You know, like, there was other kids there at the time. None of them robbed banks. None of them were heavily involved in drugs. I don't think any of them were involved in drugs. But none of them...certainly weren't heavily.
JANINE COHEN: Stevens became drug-addicted and his mother asked him to move out of their Newcastle home. She lost track of her son for months, until one day she saw him at the local shopping centre.
ROSEMARY STEVENS: I was in the car and he had, like, tracksuits and a hat and gloves, and I thought it was odd. I knew it was him for sure. And carrying a bag and...I just thought it was very odd. And that night on the news, they said that a...a building society had been held up in Warners Bay.
NBN NEWS: There was a robbery from a building society branch at Lake Macquarie this afternoon. An hour before closing time, a man demanded money from the staff of the Greater Building Society at Warners Bay.
ROSEMARY STEVENS: And I can't tell you how I knew. I don't know how I knew that it was Tony. I just did.
ANTHONY STEVENS: (Indicates bank branch) This one, I just walked into this one... uh, and started filling up a bag. I didn't even... I didn't talk to anyone at all and, um, yeah, started filling up a bag. And everyone sort of shit themself and stood at the back of the...the back of the wall there. And I was pretty much unchallenged there at this one. I sort of hit that one, hit that, then down to the end here, into that park. And then over... there's a row of trees over there, over into that. As I say, a change of clothes. I just ripped off the overalls and just walked out like nothing had happened. I come out this street here somewhere and ended up in a backyard. A dog started chasing me, had to jump another fence. Then bloody this woman hanging washing on the line, she started yelling, so I had to get out of her yard.
JANINE COHEN: Two days later, Stevens hit the Newcastle Permanent Building Society at Belmont, only 20 minutes drive from his last robbery. He carefully cased the building before deciding to rob it.
ANTHONY STEVENS: If we hit any other bank in that street, you would have had to enter that bank from the main street. And there's too many people everywhere there. And, um, I mean, you'd get in, you'd get out, but thousands of people would see you. Where...that particular one, you park behind it in the carpark, drop down through the carpark and into the side entrance and only the people actually in the bank would see you.
FIONA SWAN, BANK TELLER: He was mostly in all dark, either dark navy or black pants, long pants, and a jumper and a cap and dark glasses as well. He just slammed through the door and just walked straight over to where my teller was.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I had a bag that had the gun in it. I had that over my shoulder and the gun in my hand and just worked the...your stock thing there. Just walked in and threw the bag to the lady that was behind the counter there.
FIONA SWAN: Just didn't know what to do and was just sort of shaking a bit. I just wanted to give him everything he wanted. And I had hardly any money in my drawer, so I was more concerned I didn't have anything to give him.
JANINE COHEN: Now, the gun he pointed at you - it wasn't loaded. Does that matter?
FIONA SWAN: No. God. Even if he said it wasn't loaded, it wouldn't matter, really. No. No, it wouldn't make any difference at all. We wouldn't know if it's loaded or not. So...it's just big, and it was, um, big.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I walked in there. No-one asked me anything. I didn't have to say a word, just walked in there with a shotgun. People didn't assume I was looking for a home loan. When you're on the trips and that, I think you see things your way. It's like your own little Wild West and you're running the joint. I usually allow myself 40 seconds. I want to be at the door on my way home or on my way out when the police are getting the signal, sort of thing. So, yeah, 30, 40 seconds. In that one, I had a car behind the bank, which is what I drove there in.
CHRIS HARMON, WITNESS: We drove into a carpark in Belmont. It was a large carpark just behind the shopping centre. I looked out the window to see this guy rushing in a big panic to the car beside me. He's sporting a shotgun. He's got a balaclava covering his face at the time. He's ripped the balaclava - which I've heard later was a T-shirt - he's ripped that away from his face, exposing his face. He's put the gun on the car, he's fumbled a great deal, fumbled with the keys of the car and then looked up and he's seen me looking back out the window looking directly at him. He was staring at me, I'd say, in a decision of, "What do I do with this guy?" I thought, "I can now identify this guy and that's something he'll be aware of and he won't want to happen." I'd already begun to look for an escape route from the van. There was no quick way out of the back of my car, away from a shotgun pellet. All I could think about was to drag my son in underneath and have him protected.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I mean, if it was me sitting in the car and someone next to me did that, pulled a balaclava off and had a shotgun in their hand and had a bag in their hand, I'd assume they've just robbed the bank. It's got very little to do with me and I wouldn't look at them.
CHRIS HARMON: He threw the shotgun into the back seat - he'd had it pointing in our general direction. Whether he intentionally pointed it at me or not, it was the eye contact that was scarier than the gun at that point. He threw it in the back seat, started the car up, backed out into the traffic in the carpark. He nearly took out the car backing up, he nearly took out my car coming forward. I thought, "If he rams my car, he won't get out of here cleanly. I'll be in more danger. I hope he can drive."
ANTHONY STEVENS: Yeah, I sort of vaguely remember something similar, hey. But, like, you know, it might have been...it would have been a split second of a terrified thing for him. But again, I had no intention of hurting anyone. And I certainly had no intention of scaring anyone.
JANINE COHEN: Anthony Stevens committed four armed robberies in 16 days and would have continued on his crime spree if his mother had not seen the local television news.
So you knew it was Anthony?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: Yes, yes, by the clothes, and by just...the walk, the face, the hair. I just do. A mother knows so much more. I've spent many sleepless nights working out "What can I do?" I didn't know if I could approach him. I didn't really know where he was, where he lived. I think there was another one or two hold-ups. And one of them, I knew for sure. And I thought, "He's going to be dead shortly."
ANTHONY STEVENS: A shoot-out with police - that's probably the most likely thing that would have happened. And then, you know, I would be dead or one of them would.
ROSEMARY STEVENS: I felt I could live with putting Tony into the police and him going to jail. And one day I need to tell him that. But if I knew all this and didn't put him in and he shot someone... I didn't... I couldn't live with that.
ANTHONY STEVENS: Everything we went through, I know beyond question that she done her best and she handled things the only way she knew how to, you know? And, you know, that's... What else can you ask from your mum, you know?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: It was more than tough love. Uh...I can't imagine anything in my life before then or later that could ever come to that. I thought it was tough love telling him to leave home but I really think it was tougher to go to the police. But I am not sorry that I ever did.
JANINE COHEN: How hard was it knowing that you had a son who was a bank robber?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: I would have to say I was ashamed initially, then guilt-ridden. "Have I done something? Could I have done more?" And you go through all the ifs. And I guess it took probably a good two years into his sentence before I started to think I didn't do it. I don't think any amount of love is going to stop that. I knew how much I loved him and I also knew that he was worth fighting for.
JANINE COHEN: How much do you love him?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: I would love him enough to lay my life on the line for him. I'm very sure of that.
JANINE COHEN: Stevens was sent to prison for six years, where he became a Christian. Unlike most bank robbers, he was remorseful. In prison, he wanted to write to all 22 of his victims, but the trauma he caused ran deep. Only three would accept letters. All refused to meet him.
FIONA SWAN, BANK TELLER: No. No. It's not something you want to bring back up again. Um...you just want to forget about it and you really don't want to meet him. You don't want to put a face to what happened, really.
CHRIS HARMON, WITNESS: It might seem a really lovely thing from welfare workers to say "Please contact these people and apologise." I don't care! I don't want him near my life. I didn't want him in my life in the first place. I still don't.
ANTHONY STEVENS: I fully understand everyone in them banks hating me, know what I mean? I completely understand that.
JANINE COHEN: Is "Sorry" good enough?
ROSEMARY STEVENS: Probably not for him or for them. 'Sorry' is a pretty easily used word. And I don't think a single word compensates for what their lives... It would be a life-changing thing.
JANINE COHEN: It is not just the banks' security failures and the violence of an attack that cause the victims great trauma. There is also the question of what happens to the victims after the event. Four Corners interviewed several bank staff who after being severely traumatised or injured in a violent bank robbery have been demoted or dismissed. They would not come on camera because they feared repercussions from their employers.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL, TRAUMA COUNSELLOR: This is victimisation going on by the banking industry itself. I mean, aren't they exactly doing what the robbers are doing, except they're just doing it in a more devious way?
GEOFF DERRICK, FINANCIAL SECTOR UNION: It's a brave person that takes full use of their rights, and it's a nonsense to suggest that somehow the people who are at the forefront of workplace violence are somehow the culprits and taking advantage of the poor banks.
'PAM SMITH', ROBBERY VICTIM: I went back to work, um, on a part-time basis for a few months... um, about three months after the incident and, um, because I couldn't work full-time, my employer decided they didn't want me there.
JANINE COHEN: How did that make you feel?
'PAM SMITH': Pretty useless. Once I arrived in this part-time position, I was basically asked to sign documentation to reduce my position from a managerial status to a clerk. And I found that... I was disgusted and devastated. They've reduced my salary, they've stopped paying my physio expenses because they just don't understand. I mean, for every step forward, you seem to go, you know, three or four steps backwards. And just trying to get somebody there that's going to assist you... I mean, I wouldn't have tried to go back if I didn't want to... You would have thought that they would have found something. But then there's taints and stigmas and you get passed from new boss to new boss and nobody really knows what your situation is and I think you just become a bit of a blur on their system.
MICHELLE MULVIHILL: Secondary injury is something that I think is being missed entirely by the community in banking. It's not being looked at at all.
JANINE COHEN: What is secondary injury?
MICHELLE MULVIHILL: Well, secondary injury happens when an organisation fails to agree that what actually happened, in reality, happened. So the injury that happened from the robber is the primary injury. The secondary trauma that happens out of that is far harder to treat.
ONSCREEN: EXTENDED INTERVIEW...abc.net.au/4corners.
JANINE COHEN: The day after Four Corners interviewed Pam Smith, the bank stopped paying her salary.
Should banks be duty-bound to find people other jobs after they've been traumatised in a bank robbery?
DAVID BELL, CEO, AUSTRALIAN BANKERS' ASSOCIATION: Again, that's a very difficult one for the industry to answer because employment policies are the province of the individual banks.
JANINE COHEN: It's a moral question. Should a bank look after a long-term staff member after they have been injured or traumatised in a bank robbery?
DAVID BELL: I think the general principle applies that banks want to look after their customers and staff. These are clearly traumatic and violent events that occur, and as an industry, clearly we have the interests of our customers and staff at heart.
JANINE COHEN: Does it concern you that Four Corners has spoken to a number of people that have been traumatised and injured in bank robberies and they say that the bank has not supported them? In fact, in some cases the bank have cast them aside, they've been dismissed, they've been demoted, they've had their mortgages foreclosed on. Would that concern you if that was happening?
DAVID BELL: I think that if people have been put in that situation then they should...they should speak to their bank about it that employed them. Again, it's difficult for me...
JANINE COHEN: But as a spokesman for the industry, if that was true... I accept that you don't know about those individual cases, but if it was true, would that concern you?
DAVID BELL: It is very difficult for me to answer that question because I don't know the individual circumstances to which you are referring.
JANINE COHEN: I'm not asking you to refer to the individual circumstances. I'm asking you, if it was true that banks were not supporting their staff after bank robberies, would you be concerned as the industry spokesperson?
DAVID BELL: I would be surprised if individual banks did not support their staff and customers. At the forefront of our minds always is the safety and security of our customers and staff.
JANINE COHEN: Four Corners has obtained a document from 2000 that reveals what some in the banking industry really think of the victims. It is a draft of a document presented by two senior bank security executives on behalf of the Australian Bankers' Association to an armed robbery forum. It said, "Unions and Workcover scrutinise each attack and staff involved seek to exploit any departure from the guidelines. Victim mentality is alive and well." Russ Chandler, now a banking security consultant, was the co-author of this report.
Do you believe that?
RUSS CHANDLER: In the main, that is correct, yes.
JANINE COHEN: You don't think it's a bit harsh?
RUSS CHANDLER: Look, the banks are large institutions, have big networks and, uh...certainly take security very seriously. And sometimes things fall through the cracks...and, um, maybe there's a process being undertaken at a time and it's not completed and something...an incident goes down. So, uh, certainly staff take advantage of that. They do. Um, if I was in their place, maybe I would too.
JANINE COHEN: It says "Victim mentality is alive and well." Do you agree?
DAVID BELL: I don't have any information about that particular document. It may have been produced before my time as head of the ABA.
JANINE COHEN: There's also been the critics coming from inside the banks who have said there's a victim mentality. Do you think that's harsh?
JOHN HOWIE, CEO, JEWELLERS ASSOCIATION OF AUSTRALIA: I think it probably is. I think anyone who puts themselves in that situation, it's got to be devastating. The evidence before us is that the same people that are robbing jewellery stores are also robbing banks. And those robberies have mainly been with violence - people dressed in balaclavas, with sledgehammers, who come in with full menace, yelling and screaming, frighten the death out of the customers and the owners of the store, smash everything that they possibly can.
JANINE COHEN: This same document also reveals why banks are reluctant for compensation claims to go to court. It says, "To protect brand and knowing they have little chance of success, a more likely outcome will be an out-of-court settlement. Details of these are usually confidential and not for publication."
In that same ABA document that you authored, you say that cases of employees taking their bank to court for failing to protect them should be settled out of court. Why?
RUSS CHANDLER: Um... Certainly, trauma caused to staff is a major concern.
JANINE COHEN: What about bad publicity for banks?
RUSS CHANDLER: Banks don't like bad publicity, regardless of what it is and certainly try to avoid that at all costs.
JANINE COHEN: And especially with these sort of cases?
RUSS CHANDLER: Well, certainly with these sorts of cases, yes.
JANINE COHEN: As well as trying to get restitution from a bank, victims can also apply for compensation from State governments. But these schemes, although well-intended, have had some unforeseen difficulties. State governments fund the programs, but often have trouble recovering the money from the convicted offenders.
BERNIE MATTHEWS, BANK ROBBER: All that's doing is telling him, "Listen, you'd better get out and rob a couple more banks to pay your bills."
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: I mean, where is the mind of these people that make these rules and regulations, you know? Where is their mind? I mean, can't anybody understand that? The guy's in jail, he's got no dough, yet they're giving him a bill? Wake up to themselves.
JANINE COHEN: What would you do if you got a bill?
ANONYMOUS MAN, CONVICTED ARMED ROBBER: If I got a bill? Wipe my arse with it and flush it.
JANINE COHEN: Anthony Stevens received a series of victims-of-crimes bills while still in prison totalling $23,000, which he says he intends to pay. But while in prison, he says inmates talked about robbing banks to pay their bills.
ANTHONY STEVENS: Some people want to project the appearance of going straight, and in order to do that, they're gonna have to get rid of this bill, and in order to do that, it's gonna be another bank, isn't it? You know, like, another bank covered up, no-one knows who it was, bang, pay the bill and give their appearance again of going straight.
JANINE COHEN: These convicted criminals are saying that these bills are putting pressure on them to commit more crime.
JOHN LE BRETON, DIRECTOR, NSW VICTIM SERVICES: Mmm. Well, look, quite frankly, that's nonsense. The reality is that we adjust, and appropriately adjust, the rate at which people have to repay according to their means and capacity to do that. And that's why there's a mechanism in there to assess individual circumstances, and I wouldn't accept the fact that our approaches in any way incite or encourage people to commit further crimes.
JANINE COHEN: But do you think their attitude to paying back these bills is sort of symptomatic of their attitude to their victims generally?
JOHN LE BRETON: I think for some that's certainly the case, that they are disdainful of their victims, that they show no remorse, and consequently they are going to be less than keen in paying back to a government agency funds for...as a result of the implications of the offence that they committed.
JANINE COHEN: Bank staff may no longer pack pistols and be expected to defend the bank in a shoot-out like they did in the '60s and '70s. But many are still in the firing line.
ONSCREEN: 'Pam Smith', with the help of the union, has just negotiated a return to work for 12 hours a week. But her future is uncertain. Her lawyer is in negotiations with the bank.
Anthony Stevens finished parole last month but says he will be 93 before he finishes paying his victims-of-crime bill.
Bernie Matthews' parole ends in October 2006.