‘For a Place Under the Heavens’ by Sabiha Sumar - Transcript
Sabiha walks with incense around her house
Voice over: Once upon a time there lived eleven of us in this house –
my parents, six sisters, two brothers and myself. Our house was full of poetry and sufi music. A whiff of whisky, a crackle of ice, and more poetry. My father recited all the time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: For A Place Under the Heavens
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sabiha puts film in projector
Sabiha’s birthday party
Voice over: This is my second birthday…
There behind the musical chairs is my father
And over there, in the center, in the sea green blouse,
is my mother
My parents were born in Bombay in British India. I remember
my mother telling us how Muslim women in India had to cover
their faces when they stepped out of their homes.
But I was born in Pakistan and I never saw my mother wearing
a veil. She explained that after Pakistan became independent the fear of foreigners faded away. Pakistan has a majority muslim population and people became relaxed about women roaming freely.
Musical chairs dissolves to women in hijaab playing tic tac on the beach
Razia in supermarket
Voice over: I have known Razia for several years as a friend of my sister.
She always struck me as a fashion conscious woman.
Razia interview in garden
Razia: Oh ya, I was very fashion conscious … any latest fashion which was, I
mean, whichever … when I saw magazines …, fashion magazines and all of that, most of them were Indian magazines and very few English magazines so … we … I used to follow the fashion …wear bell-bottoms, jeans, blouses, short blouses but, uh … I never wore mini-skirts …
There is no way you know I can go back to my good old days without a hijaab. Because now I know that a Muslim woman has to cover herself and there are no excuses.
Sabiha: Why do women have to cover themselves when don’t have to cover themselves….
Razia: You see, woman is an object like … she … she’s supposed to be attractive … God has made her attractive … there’s some attraction in her and basically I think it’s for your own protection because, you see, … why … why do one has to expose herself to others …
I do fashion for myself … I’m not spending all that money on Lancome
and Clarins and all to show … for other people to look at me and appreciate me … it’s like, I do it for myself.
Sabiha travelling in a car
Voice over: Razia’s transformation is so dramatic, I feel if I could begin to understand why wearing the hijab has become vital to her existence, that window may allow me to look into how women are coping nad surviving under creeping religiosity in the last two decades.
Rooftop discussion 4 women
Voice over: Three of my friends have actively resisted the erosion of women’s rights during this period.
Nausheen is a lawyer. She and I worked on legal and political education of women in prison.
Sabah heads a leading think tank in Islamabad and has worked on women’s development.
Aaliya works for an independent television network and is reading for a Ph D on Islamic Political Thought.
Sabiha: … what are the changes and where do we go from here.
Nausheen: Even the word Hijaab to me is quite a new and alien word. It was never part of my dictionary when I was growing up.
Aalia: Well it's not a phenomenon indigenous to the sub-continent, it's imported and the word Hijaab has come with it. From the Arab world that probably got it from the expatriate communities from Europe and America.
Sabiha: Yes but why would religion grow in such a massive way in this country. It's not that we haven’t been religious before. My mother was a deeply religious person and I don’t think that anyone would say that people who were of the past generation were not religious. I think they were.
Aalia: I think may be the one place to look for an answer for that is understanding what happened to Islam in Pakistan, in second generation Pakistanis because of the fact that they were in this nation state created with this Islamic Ideology.
Timeline 1947
Sabiha: So we start with 1947 which is the birth of Pakistan and its leader Mr. Jinnah makes an address to the constituent assembly and makes it very clear that the State and Religion are going to be separate. So he says: ``You may belong to any religion or cast or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State….``
Nausheen: And then he says, “Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in the course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims...``
Sabiha: ``Not in the religious...``
Nausheen: ``But not in the religions sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the state``. That’s the crux of it.
Sabiha: So lets put this up. Where we started on ‘47.
Sheraton Hotel Religious sermon
Voice over: Razia and her friends are regular invitees at religious sermons. It’s an expensive affair, arranged with meticulous detail at 5 star hotels all over the country.
Farhat Hashmi: Shuru karti hoon allah kay naam say jo bara mehrbaan , ba barkat wala hai. Bunyadi tour par Islam nay to har aurat ko aik independent will di hai. Aurat ka dimag, aurat ki soch ko mard kay tabay nahi rakha hai..kiyon kay allah tala Quran may farma tay hain tummay say jo bhi acha kam karay gaa khwan mard ho yeh aurat us ko uski koshish aur us ki mahnat ka badla zaroor milay gaa.
English Translation:
In the name of Allah, the most Beneficient and the most Bountiful. Basically Islam has given every woman an independent will. A woman's mind and reasoning cannot be male dominated… because God says in the Quran that anyone who does good deeds, whether man or woman, will certainly get the fruits of his labour.
Quran Arabic: Fabi aiyah allah illah rabakuma tukazaban
Haza jahanamu allazi ukazabu bihal mujrimoon
Yatufuna wa bayna hami un aan
Fabi allah illah rabakuma tukazaban
English Translation:
Which of God's blessings will you deny.
This is the Hell which the sinner's denied
Abide herein
Rooftop
Nausheen: They say it makes them feel good.
Aaliya: Yeh! Exactly
Nausheen: Because everywhere around us in society including within the family structure
we are trashed, we are trashed in the sense we are secondary. And here is a women, Farhat Hashmi, who is telling us that in front of God you guys are very important…
And yet it is fine because it is not challenging the status quo, and its not challenging the family structure for example it keeps them in their place its keeps them as wives, as mothers doing their duties, and being submissive and being obedient …
Sabah: This is such a extreme degree of colonisation, where the subject itself colonises itself and says that I am just fine the way I am. So this is the ultimate expression of oppression. It could be interpreted that way and then you have a really gloom and doom scenario ahead of you. I wouldn’t want to interpret it that way, just becauseI want to have hope...that in the larger context this is just…I want to believe that in the larger context of time this will evaporate and go away.
Women playing at the beach
Cabaret 1950’s
Voice over Looking at women today it is difficult to believe that not very long ago Pakistan had a vibrant night life. My father told us about cabarets, bars and casinos and about his experiments with ballroom dancing. He did not anticipate at that time the changes around the corner.
1956 images of trucks
Voice Over: When Pakistan’s first constitution was adopted in 1956, he proudly showed us the images he had filmed of the celebrations on the streets of Karachi.
Timeline 1956
Nausheen: If you look at the 56 Constitution the secular principles or the separation of state and religion, which Jinnah ascribes to, is gone.
Sabiha: Yes. The confusion begins there
Nausheen: Look at the words of the Objective Resolution, the confusion starts here. ‘Sovereignity belongs to Allah alone but he has delegated it to the State of Pakistan through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by him as a sacred trust’.
Sabiha: So we have a pretense of a modern nation state and we can’t effectively change anything because it is the will of God.
Suraiya in Kitchen
Voice over: I met Suraiya some years ago at the headquarters of a religious political party. She is very involved with it’s activities.
Interview Suraiya
Sabiha: Ma ki hasiyat say ranj aur dukh to hoo ga apnay betay kay janay par?
English: As a mother you must be grieved by your son's death?
Suraiya: Zahir hai ma hoon aur mujhay us ki bohat ziyada yaad aati hai magar phir jaab us maqsad ko dekhtee hoon to phir …
English: Obviously as a mother I miss him tremendously. But when I remember the cause…
Sabiha: Na to apkay shohar gayay Jihad par na apkay walid gayay, na aapkay bhai gayay to wo kyoon nahi gayay aur Tahir kyoon gaya?
English: Neither your husband, nor your father, nor brother went for Jihad. So why did Tahir, your son, go?
Suraiya: Wo kuch mahool aisa nahi tha na. Us waqt Kashmir ka masla itna ziyada...yani kay jaab khud Kashmirion nay jaab hathiar utha liya bohat dinoon tak unhoon ney intizar kiya, election may bhi hisa latay rahay lekin jab kisiy cheese ka koyi unko faida nahi huwa aur unhoon nay hatyar utha liya to phir Pakistan tak bhi yeh baat aiyee aur meray walid kay waqt Kahmir may koyi jihad ka koyee, mujhay nahi yaad kay koyee aeese baat hoti thi aur koyi khaas who hota tha.
Jab bhi mujhay khayal aata hai mey us ka liyeh bohaat ziyada dua karti hoon ka Allah taala bus us ka rutba bulund kar aur jis maqsa kay liyah us nah aapna saab kuch Qurban kiya hai us ko tu qabool farma. Aur may ney yahaan sabar kiya hai may wahan us say mil sakoon.
English: The atmosphere was not such. The Kashmir issue was not so…I mean Kashmiris waited for a long time before they rose up in arms. They kept participating in elections, but to no avail. But when they took to arms, this news reached Pakistan. During my father's time, I don't remember any such talk of Jihad.
Whenever I think of him, I pray to God to give him the highest place in Heaven and accept his sacrifice. And I have accepted this loss here, so that I may meet him there.
Sabiha: To aapko kabhi aasa khayal aata hai kay kash who nahi gaya hota Jihad par.
English: Do you ever wish that he hadn't gone for Jihad?
Suraiya: Nahi. Jaab bhi may sochti hoon Allah ki meherbani aur us ko to mai to sochti hoon kay yeh Allah tal ki bohaat ziyaada meherbani hai kay itna bada rutba meray betay ko diya.
Is lihaz say bhi soochen kay loog kiya nahi kartay apnay bachoon kay mustaqbil ko bana nay ka liyeh kiya kuch nahi kartay na. Magar aasal mustaqbil to woh hai kay wahan woh janaat ka mustahaq ban jayah aur jahanum say bach jayah.
English: No.Whenever I remember God's blessing, I think that this is the greatest honour that God has bestowed on my son.
Look, parents do everything possible for their children's future. But the real future is that he merits Paradise and is saved from Hell.
Interview Mufti Nizamuddin
Voice over: Mufti Nizamuddin is a well reputed Islamic scholar. He spends his time teaching Islamic studies.
Mufti: Deeni madaris, jo aap yun samaj lain kay aik islami inquilab kay liyah kaam karnay ka aik markaz hai. Us ki tataad may itna izafa huwa kay aaj say 10 saal balkay bees saal pehlay tak iska tasawur bhi nahi tha.
Who mulk may yeh naujawanoon may nazariyati kaam kar rahai hain. Nazariyati kaam ka matlaab yeh hai kay wo unhay islami inquilaab kay liyeh nazaariyah day rahay hain, aur pur amaan tariqay say us kay husool kay liyah unko tayaar kaar rahay hain.
Wajah us ki yeh hai kay maghrabi jamhooriat yeh parlimany jamhooriat ka jo taur tariqa hai us say Islami inquilab aa nahi sakta.
English: You may look at these religious schools as a centre for working towards an Islamic revolution. They have multiplied at a rate unprecedented 10 or 20 years ago.
They are carrying out ideological work amongst the youth in the country. This means they are providing them an ideology for an Islamic revolution and preparing them for its achievement through peaceful means.
The reason being that an Islamic revolution cannot be achieved through western or parliamentary democracy.
Sabiha’s writing
Voice over: Though it is hard to believe today, I grew up in a secular Pakistan.
I was 8 years old when I visited Baghdad with my parents. In a historical cemetry I remember noticing a small grave – obviously a child’s grave. I remember being stunned by the realisation that children also die. A series of questions arose in my mind about the imperfect design of the world. At that time, in Pakistan, there was space for philosophical inquiry about the mysteries of the world – where we come from and where we go. But this space slowly closed.
Timeline 1973
Sabiha: So, we are now on 73 and Bhutto, and Islamic socialism, and it is interesting that even someone like Bhutto who had so much popular appeal and really a mass base. The first time you experience in Pak a feeling amongst people……
Nausheen: Of being truly empowered.
Sabiha and Nausheen: Yeah
Sabiha: But he still has to lean on Islam.
Nausheen: He did a number of things, he banned alcohol and horse racing, he declared Friday to be a holiday rather than Sunday. So in his last throws he …
Sabiha: (Interrupting) He did everything
Nausheen: ….he thought if he clings to Islam, it may help him.
Sabiha: But it did not really. So Bhutto gets hanged.
Nausheen: Well the coup happens…
Sabiha: The coup happens with Zia and Bhutto gets hanged.
Nausheen: It really is quite frightening. It was a warning to all Politicians including
us that if we over step our limits, there is a way to get things redressed.
Sabiha: That is we will hang you, if you get out of limits.
Nausheen: So you know, the political parties are very quiet, the politicians are afraid. The whole country is really stunned because it’s the first time that a Prime Minister has been hanged.
Fatima dries clothes onher washing line
Voice over: As a 6 year old Fatima accompanied her mother who worked at our house as a maid.
Interview Fatima
Sabiha: Fatima tum kaab say kaam kar rahi ho?
English: Fatima, since when have you been working?
Fatima: May chooti thi jaab say.
Englsih: Since childhood.
Fatima: Phir us kay baad 15 saal ki umaar may shaadi ho gayee.
Englsih: Then I got married at the age of 15.
Sabiha: Shaadi kay baad tum na kaan nahi kiya, yah shohar nay zimadari sambhla yeh kiya huwa?
English: What happened after you got married? Did you stop working? Did your husband take over the responsibilities?
Fatima: Haan pehlay to bahir thay phir 6 mahinay kay baad aagayeh, aur jaab say…Phir idhar hee thora boohat kaam kar rahay thay. Kabhi hoota tha, kabhi nahi hoota tha. Aik kafta kartay thay aur aik hafta bethay rahtay thay.
Bolay tabiyat sahee nahi rahtee hai, chakar aatay hain meray ko kaam karta hoon too…
English: Initially, he was away for six months then he returned and since then…He has been working on and off. He would work for about a week then sit back the next week. He said he was unwell and had dizzy spells whenever he worked.
Mother: Ramzan say pehlay aik mahina betha tha. Ramzan pura kharcha iss nay kiya –shaadi may baatiyoon ka, har baat yehi kaarti hai. Bachoon kay kapra wapra saab yehi sambhalti hai…
English: He was idle for a month before Ramadan. She financed everything. Wedding lights, children's clothes, food. Everything she did.
Fatima: Kaam do haaftay nahi gaayah, teesaray haaftay gayah to bula gir gaya. Bola chakar aa gayah gir gayah may…
English: When he went to work after a twoweek break, he returned complaining of a dizzy spell.
Mother: Kaam hi nahi kaar sakta hai.
English: He is simply incapable…
Sabiha: Maasi aap ko bhi kabhi kisay nay kaama kar diya
Englsih: Maasi has anybody ever provided for you?
Mother: Koi nahi diya. Rupiya nahi diya. Kitni mehnat aap kay samnay kitni mahnat Mummy kay wahan. Raat, Din.Kitney mahnat kaarti thi.
English: Never. Not a penny. You know how hard I have worked at your mother's -day and night. How much I have laboured.
Sabiha: Magar maasi yeh Ayub (son) kyoon kaam nahi kaarta hai?
Englsih: But why doesn't your son Ayub work?:
Fatima and
Mother together: Who to bechara jaata hai…
English: Poor thing he does his best…
Fatima: Woh zara mehnat ka kaam hai na. Chaar din kaarta hai to phir beemar ho jaata hai...
English: It is very hard work. He can't cope. He keeps falling ill.
Mother: Pani ka kaam hai nay, pani …
English: He has to work with water…
Fatima: Gardi, motor dhotay hain na
English: He has to wash cars…
Sabiha: To yeh kitney mahnat kaarti hai to yeh bimaar nahi hoti hai aur Ayub aur is ka shohar bimaar ho jatay hain. Kyon?
English: But Fatima works so hard and doesn't fall sick; and Ayub and her husband can't cope? Why?
Mother: Kiya karain…
English: What to do?
Rooftop discussion
Nausheen: At the grass root level especially if your talking about women, despite their traditional adherence to Islam etc because of its oppression in their daily life and because of course law and the structures of the state also work to support that oppression, many of our laws are actually sanctified by religion, They would be quite willing to totally give up on religion. If you talk to them they know that our freedom is restricted because of this, we are not allowed to do what we want to do but unfortunately our secular and liberal political parties have not been able to harness that energy at a grass root level.
Aaliya: Who bhi to dartay hain…
English: They are also scared
Sabiha: They are fearful because to get that space that is created by these women and the working class people who don’t need or have any space for religion in their lives means challenging the power base that exists.
Our ruling elites have always been feudal, the clergy and the army. And all these have interests tied together. And I think that because there has been this avoidance of a power struggle, whether by women's organisations, whether it is by so called progressive political parties in this country or what have you. It is the avoidance of a power struggle that has landed us in this mess and we have never really dealt with that question. We’ve never really understood what it means.
Aaliya: Well religious authority is a particularly difficult power to take on, you feel very vulnerable, you don’t know what leg to stand on.
Sermon dead body
Woman 1: Who yun hi nahi uthaa layta. Yeh Allah tala ka karam hai kay who aurat ko usyee ahtaymaam kay saat, usee parday kay saat, usee safai kay saat
English: God requires women to be properly covered after death. By His Grace he has instructed for the same segregation and cleanliness for the burial.
Voice over: Another religious sermon in a humble neighbourhood. This time the topic is how to prepare a woman’s body for her funeral.
Woman 1: Ghusaal honay tak mayat ka ahtaram, chard upaar hi rahna chahi yeh. Agaar chadar geeli ho jayaa paani kay paarnay say to pehlay aik sukhi chadar upaar layee jaayay phir woh neechay say geeli chadar haataee jayee.
Isliyah kay khawateen ko in tamaam cheezoon ka ilm nahiu hoota to parday ka khas khayal rakhna hai. Kay marnay ka baad bhi us ka koyee bhi sataar khula huwa na rahay.
Pehlay may aap ko bata deyti hoon jin cheezoon ki zaroorat parti hai us may qanchee, nehlanay kay kapra may sabun baghair khushbu, aur chemical wala, dastaanay royee, sar ko pochnay ka kapra, aik choota kapra naak, kaan saaf karna ka, khushboo walay phool koyee bhee sukhay huway...
…leykin may yeh soch rahi thee kay may aur aap yeh kaasay bhool saktay hain ka hum us khaliq kay pass jaanay walay hain jis kay samnay jawab dahi karni hai jahan say koyee farar nahi hai, wahan say to bhag hee nahi sakta..wahan say to kissi dusari jaga shift ho hee nahi saktay. Who to point aeesa puka hai kay wahan jaana aur jaana hai.
English: Special care should be taken during the final bath that her body is covered at all times. If the covering sheet gets wet, spread a dry sheet over the body before removing the wet one. I am emphasising this because many women don't know that no part of her body should be exposed.
You will need sccisors, body sponge, unscented and chemical free soap
gloves, cotton wool, drying cloth, and a cloth for cleaning orifices, dried fragrant flowers…
And how can we forget that we are going to our creator where we have to
Answer for our deeds. From where there is no escape. We can't run away from this day. It is an indisputable truth that we must meet our maker.
Vantage point view of city traffic
Voice over: Did I say I was born in a secular Pakistan? I guess I was wrong. I realise now that I grew up in a schizophrenic society – suspended precariously between Islamic ideology and secularism.
Hina outside supermarket
Voice over: I met Hina by chance. Her ambition is to be a successful model. I foundher flamboyance intriguing.
Hina interview
Hina: Well I believe in enjoying my life. I don’t think that Islam, my religion, this system or anybody has the right to stop me from being what I am, what I want to do. I don’t think I am doing anything wrong. I just stay within my limits and yet I am enjoying my self very much. I love my life the way it is.
Hina: The system doesn’t understand that I am also a human, I have rights and they are not ready to give it to me.
Mother: Not only rights, feelings emotions…
Hina: Rights, feelings, emotions whatever I have, all these things, I am a human also. I have been given these rights by Islam, by God, they can’t take it away from me.
Islam is very liberal where women are concerned, Islam is very supportive of women. First of all we need to educate people that all these things that you people are saying most of it Islam does not agree with. So that’s the first thing.
Sabiha: What would you say to a Quranic verse which says a man can beat his wife?
Hina: The Quran has hidden meaning inside it. It has hidden meaning
inside it. You need to have brains to read between the lines. Basically that verse is about women who refuse to have children. And that is after you have talked to them tried to convince them and yet they don’t understand and ready to comply, than that is the time you can beat them. It’s only for women who refuse to have children. It’s not for anybody else.
Sabiha: So you think its right to beat a woman who does not want to have children?
Hina: Well no. I think it’s her choice.
Man: Basically what the system is. We cannot deny the system in fact.
Sabiha: And do you agree with that, that you cannot deny the system.
Hina: I don’t entirely agree with that because I do a lot of things and get away with a lot of things. But of course you have to have brains to see where the cracks of the system are and where you can easily squeeze in. You can’t get away with everything. But yes that’s the way the system is; you can’t always go against it. In some situations sometimes you can, but not always. That is the sad part.
Rooftop
Sabiha: In the 50’s and 60’s when there was more economic freedom. We were happier
and a more prosperous country, religion was also a liberal face to us. And then in the late 70’s, 80’s and 90’s the recession deepened and also coincided with General Zia at exactly the same time.
Nausheen: And all the while this particular regime was very well funded not only with USAID but as you are saying with Arab money with Saudi money and with a lot of money that was going into the Afghan war. So It’s also a political phenomenon. You can’t get away from that.
Sabah: Especially post Afghan war 1980, 79 December 1980 onwards. Those connections are clearly there, and that is where the military started to get all kinds of economic military assistance, the CIA was involved what you talk about the judiciary, the whole education system being Islamised and all of that came with a particular foreign backing.
Timeline 1979
Nausheen: Some of the changes that Zia-Ul-Haq puts into place are so wide ranging that I
think that one can confidently say that in many ways he has changed the face of this country. So collectively we have become a much more sort of conservative religious society.
Nausheen So, 79 he promulgates the Hudood Ordinances
Sabiha: The Hudood Ordinanaces really mean Islamic laws that basically affected women took away their right to divorce, took away their right to making their choices, about who they marry and who they don’t.
Nausheen: It made adultery, a crime punishable by stoning to death. And because of the way the law was subsequently implemented, it just went meant that hundreds and hundreds of women were being imprisoned and spending many many years awaiting trial.
Sabiha arrives at Birmingham airport
Voice over: As the noose tightened around women’s necks, some of us fought for secular rights and rejected framework.
Shaheen in Library
Voice over: But Shaheen, like some other women, believes a feminist interpretation of the Quran will give women their rights. Shaheen was the former Provincial Minister for Health and also headed the National Commission on the Status of Women.
At present she is teaching Islamic Law at Warwick University in Britain.
Interview Shaheen
Shaheen: I found that so interesting to see that out of the six thousand six
hundred sixty-six verses of the Quran six verses only create a gender hierarchy, six thousand six hundred sixty call for complete equality. How come that in fourteen hundred years of the jurisprudential evolution, and knowledge and analysis how come that the six completely out weight the six thousand six hundred and sixty. Because it was a male elite who were jurists, who were scholars, who were judge, who were legislators, who were rulers… so they just picked the ones, half a dozen lines, completely overwhelming the rest… But these six verses that I found that do create gender heirarchies actually have a pre-condition attached to them. And the pre-condition is economic superiority of the male to protect women. And if you take away that economic superiority then the authority that the man is suppose to have over the woman, I think, from a strictly legal perspective just vanishes. Because if you don’t fulfil the pre-conditions. So for example, it says men are the protectors and providers of women because they provide out of their wealth. That is a rough translation of one of the verses that creates these hierarhises. Now my question is what about those households where there are no males, where the woman provides and protects and is the person who is economically resposible nad incharge of the household. What happens then?
Sabiha: But what if I were to argue that actually Islam is a patriarchal religion in itself?
Shaheen: Well all world religion are patriarchal
Sabiha: So then if Islam is patriarchal and its soil is patriarchal then how can women find their rights within the same text? Are women organising for power then? How are women to make their interpretation the ruling force.
Shaheen: That would be extremely hard. I mean I’m saying this from my own
experience…I mean when I’m saying my own, I mean experiences of women around me…and when I think it would be counter-productive its because it puts peoples’ backs up immediately when you confront. So confrontational politics and strategies not where it is so deeply ingrained in the psychology of the society…I doubt it very much whether it works successfully, and it might be counterproductive and it might create a barrier for other women.
Shaheen: I find that there is an inbuilt element almost of subverting the patriarchal. So I think that… that’s the kind of balance, and it’s a very fine balancing act to make.
Sabiha in car
Voice over: Watching Shaheen side step the question of power struggle and seek refuge in reinterpretation, I could not help but wonder where Christian women would be today if they were still interpreting the Bible.
Mufti: Islam yeh kehta hai, mardoon ko bhi dawat deyta hai, targeeb dayta hai kay who akar is kitaab ka ilm hasil kar lain aur khawateen ko bhi is ki dawat dayta hai kay wo is kitab ka ilm hasil kar lain. Phir is ki tashree aur tafsir ka haq bhi sab ko hai. Jitna aik mard ko hoo sakta hai utna aik aurat ko bhi hai. Leykin, mard kay liyah bhi yeh zaroori hai kay us ki tashree aur tafseer usi chokhat aur dayarah may karay jo Islam ibtida say bayan karta chala aa raha hai. Aur khawateen ko bhi is ki ijazaat hai. Leykin who jo qawaneen hain, aik ayeen ki tarhaan, un qawaneen aur us aeen ki rooshaani may rah kar jo tafseer who chahain kareen.
English: Islam invites both men and women to come and seek knowledge from the Divine Book. And everyone has a right to it's interpretation and explanation. A woman has as much right as a man. But it is also essential, for both, men and women, to contain the interpretationand explanation within the parameters of Islam in its pristine form.
Quranic laws are like a constitution and any explanation can be given provided it is within the light of this constitution.
Sabiha: Magar who chokhaat jis ka aandar rah kar yeh tafseer karni hai, who chookhat kiss nay banayee hai?
English: But who determines the parameters within which the interpretation is to be made?
Mufti: Woh Allah Tabarak o tala nay, Allah kay rasool nay aur Allah nay iss kitaab may khud who zikar kardi hai. Jiss kitab ki hum tafseer karna chahaatay hain, us kitaab may khud woh chokhat zikar hai.
Englsih: God Almighty Himself, His Prophet and His Book mentions the framework. The Quran itself contains the parameters within which laws may be interpreted.
Sabiha: Yehi to farq hai western political democracy may aur aik Islami nizaam may kay wahan par aap yeh bhi kha dain key yeh qanoon sahi nahi hai ya yeh zaza sahi nahi hai . Aggar wahan ki huqumaat ko ikhtilaaf bhi hoo aap ki baat say, to aap ko saza nahi mil sakti hai…
English: This precisely is the difference between western political democracy and an Islamic system is that one may question laws and punishments and even if the government objects it cannot punish you for voicing your opinion…
Mufti: Muhtarma aik bunyadi farq yeh hai kay un kay qawaneen insanoon kay bana yeh huwa who hain.Is liyeh un qawaneen par baat karnay ki bhi gunjaaish hooti hai, un ko sahi aur ghalat kah nay ki bhi gunjaaish hooti hai. Leykin aik Musalman ki hasiyat say agar hum yeh aqida rakhtay hain kay yeh qanoon Allah ka bana ya huwa hai to wahan par humay yeh ikhtiar baqi nahi rahtay ka hum us kay wujood ko challenge karain.
English: Muslims, if we Madam, the basic difference is that their laws are man made and therefore open to discussion. They can also be debated as right or wrong. But, as acknowledge that a law is made by God, we don't have the right to challenge its veracity.
Women in Hijaab in water
Interview Hina
Sabiha: And Hina what do you think would happen if you were to go out on the streets with say about a hundred women demanding equal rights. Say equal legal system or something. What would happen?
Hina: They would send the female police out to beat us up with sticks.
Mama: The male police and the female police.
Hina: The male police and the female police are going to beat us up and put us in jail for loitering and rioting and disturbing the peace.
Sabiha: So you would rather not go out demanding such things.
Hina: I would. I would. But then I need a 100 more women like that who willing to sacrifice the good name of their family and are ready to put up with their fathers and their respective husbands wrath if they do something like that.
Sabiha: And you think it is difficult to find 100 such woman.
Hina: Yes. I guess the women over here compromise because it is the easy thing to do. And the hard thing to do is to go out and struggle and be beaten up on and get pointed fingers. Even women they will penalise us that these women are crazy that they are nuts.
Sabiha: Why not say that religion is a separate and personal aspect of life and…
Hina: And who do you think is bold enough to do that. If you say that over here, they are going to kill you right away. That this person is blasphemous.
Who do you think is s bold enough to say that. Nobody is .
Interview Mufti
Sabiha: Magar agar hum Pakistan ka hawala lain to iss waqt power yah control to mardoon kay hi haat may hai na zahir hai jis kay pass control ho gaa, jiss kay pass power ho gaa wohi …
English: But with reference to Pakistan the power and control at present is in the hand of males, and obviously whoever holds the power strings…
Mufti: Leykin yeh batayeh kay duniya ka wo kaunsa khita hai jissmay power aur control mardoon kay haat may nahi. Kiya America may power aurecontrol mardon kay haat may nahi hai balkay app agar mazhab ki baat karteen hain to Bible ki tashreeh aur tafseer wagaira kiss kay haat may hai…
English: But you tell me where on earth is power and control not in the hands of males? Isn't power and control in the hands of men in America? If you are talking about religion then who is involved in the interpretation and explanation of the Bible, if not males?
Sabiha: Aap ka farmana durast hai kay har jaga hee power aur control mardoon kay haat mai hai aur auratain agar apnay taur say chalana chahaateen hain to agay maidan may aana ho ga…
English: You are right. Power and control is male dominated everywhere. But if women are to have their say, they must come out and make themselves heard…
Mufti: To yeh un ki kamzoori hai jo who peechay rah gaeen. Warna Islam nay unhay agay anay say nahi rooka hai. Who agay aayan aur control aapna haath may lay lain.
English: Then it is the women's weakness that they lag behind. Islam does not stop them from moving ahead. They can come forward and take control.
Sabiha: Magar un auratoon ka kiya ho ga jaab who aagay badhain gee control laynay kay liya tu kiya who mard jo control lay kar bethay hain aasani say chood dain gay control?
English: But what will happen to women when they move forward to take charge? Will the men relinquish control so easily?
Mufti: Is kay liyeh to inquilab ki zaroorat hoti hai. Aasani say koi nahi chordta.
English: You need a revolution for that. Nobody relinquishes power easily.
Time Line 1980’s and women’s protests
Nausheen: The first people who actually come out against Zia-ul-Haq are women. Later on they are supported by the political parties and the trade unions and other groups.But its really women who first protest against the Hudood Ordinances.
Sabiha: Lets put these up then.
Nausheen: And then ofcourse during that period we had our advertisement. And that advertisement solicited 12,000.
Sabiha: Yeah.
But I can’t imagine right now that we could have a protest of twelve thousand people in Pakistan saying that Islamic laws don’t give us our rights, we want to live within a secular democratic system. You know I keep thinking back that there is just no space for that kind of work whatsoever.
Interview Suraiya and friends
Suraiya: Leykin aami jan jannat hasil karna bhi aasan kam nahi. Mujhe bhi yahaan aa kar pata chala hai aur aagay ja kar aur pata chalay gaa. Aami aap kehti hain kay jihad kay saath saath pardhaee bhi zaroori hai. Pehlay kuch bun jaaoo phir jihad par chalay jaana. Jihad say intnay arsay kay liyeh duur kiyon rahoon.
Englsih: And my dear mother, it is not easy to get to heaven. I've learnt this here and I am sure to learn more with time. Mother, you say that education is as important as jihad. You wanted me to become somebody before going to jihad. But why should I spend so many years not going to jihad.
Woman: Aik blood ka aik drop nikalta hai jisam say shaheed ka ussi waqt us ko
janaat dikha di jaati hai. Koi takleef next nahi aati. Kuch bhi takleef nahi. Woh muskurata huwa jaa raha hota hai. Us ko kuch nahi pata koyee bhun raha hai goliyoon say ussay, yah koyee maar raha hai, yah ussay koi kha raha hai koyee parinda. Bus sirf drop girta hai aur us ko janaat dikha di jaati hai.
English: One drop of blood, just one drop falls from the body of a martyr and he can see heaven before him. He feels no more pain. No pain at all. He is smiling as he leaves the world. He is not aware if somebody is spraying bullets on him, or somebody is beating him up or a bird is picking at his flesh. Just one drop falls and he sees heaven before him.
Suraiya: Loog maut say bohaat dartay hain. Is kay baad say mujhay maut say dar nahee lagta – kay aik who rahta hai kay jab maroon gee to us say mulaqat hoo gee.
English: People are very scared of dying. But after him I don't fear death at all. In fact, I have a feeling that when I die I'll be able to meet him again.
Woman: Inshallah ho gay na tum shaheed? Allah mian kay pas toffiyan khao gay na ja kar? Allah mian kay pas kitnee saree toffiyan hain. Har cheez hai na? Kitni piyaree, piyaree cheezain hain na?
English: God willing, you will be a martyr, won't you? You will go to God and eat toffees, won't you? God has so many toffees, doesn't he? He has everything, doesn't he? Such beautiful, wonderful things, doesn't he?
Child: Han jee
English Yes.
Woman: Shaheed ho gay, ho gay? Shaheed hona hai aapnay? Yes
English: You will be a martyr, won't you? Do you want to be a martyr? Yes.
Two women and child flying a kite at the beach
Fatima goes to work
Fatima: Aap khaoo gay chapati? Chotay chotay tukday kar doon chapati kay?
Aalu doon? Nai? Bohaat garam hai na?
English: Will you have some bread? Should I cut into smaller pieces? Potatoes? No? It's hot isn't it?
Sabiha : Agar tum ko koyee bolay chalo sarak par nikaltay hain sub aurtain aur kuch ahtejaj kartay hain, hukoomat say mangtay hain kay auratoon ko bhi kuch sahulatain milain. Tum kiya karo gee?
English: If somebody were to ask you to come out on the streets with other women and protest and demand from the government that women be given their rights, will you do it?
Fatima: Main to subha jaati hoon aur sham ko aatee hoon. To apney pait kay us may hee fursat nahi milti hai to kiya jaaoon. Haftay may aik chutee miltee hai aur wo bhi sara din kaam may lag jaata hai. Aana, jana kidhar hota hai.
English: I go in the morning and come back in the evening. I am working all the time just to make ends meet. Where do I have the time to go anywhere.
Sabiha: To tum ko agar koyee bolay tum ko kiya chahiyeh zindagi say, duniya may to kiya bolo gee tum?
English: So if somebody were to ask you what you wish for, what you want from life, what would you say?
Fatima: Zindagi may kiya chahiyeh abhi? Zindagi to bus aesahee hai – bus kam, kam may hee zindagi hai. Aur kiya zindagi say mangain.
English: What can I ask? Life is just like that - work and more work. What can I ask life to give me.
Rooftop
Aailya: I guess picking upon that religion is an answer people turn to when they are disillusioned with evry other alternative and it is just a matter of time before they will be disillusioned with this one as well.
Sabiha: That is what we all hope for. That it will go full circle and it won’t deliver in the end. Like in Iran today…
Nausheen: But yes, but you see at the moment here in Pakistan we have a strange situation. You see Iran had its revolution the clergy took control. They did not deliver. Here we have a very strange situation because the clergy is in control and is yet not in control and what we see in front of us is a more liberal western face, which is again not delivering because its not delivering the jobs and not delivering the economic security …(inaudible interruption)
and it's in fact helping along the clergy ...
Sabah: But the other side of the story is that the clergy hasn’t triumphed completely either because the liberal face has still kept…has to be kept intact whereas they, they would love to grab State power directly. So…
That’s the other way of looking at the glass, you know, half full..
Nausheen: Yes but Sabah they haven’t triumphed is it because the liberal face is strong? Again I come back to the fact that it is because at the grass root level people are not interested in religion, they are interested in …their concerns are economic, and physical and law and order. And that is why the clergy hasn’t triumphed. It’s not a victory for you and me. We are still very marginal and we are still on the fringes.
Voice over : There is no end to our discussions…
Why is there no support – neither financial, nor ideological for secular politics in Pakistan?
Clearly, the people of Pakistan would be willing to buy into an alternate ideology that is relevant to their daily concerns.
Why is it that no leader – not even Benazir Bhutto- has been able to reverse the trend of Islamization and put General Zia-ul-Haq’s ghost to rest?
8mm footage of Sabiha’s birthday dissolves to Dhiya’s 10th birthday
Voice over: It’s the same house 40 years later. It is my daughter Dhiya’s 10th birthday. When people stop asking questions it’s a very dangerous time, I tell Dhiya. When she grows up I want her to ask: Does half the nation benefit by being covered in layers of cloth? Or does the other half benefit? Or is it a small coterie of rulers who benefit at the expense of both?
A large number of women walk along the beach towards the camera.
Roll Titles
Sabiha walks with incense around her house
Voice over: Once upon a time there lived eleven of us in this house –
my parents, six sisters, two brothers and myself. Our house was full of poetry and sufi music. A whiff of whisky, a crackle of ice, and more poetry. My father recited all the time.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Title: For A Place Under the Heavens
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sabiha puts film in projector
Sabiha’s birthday party
Voice over: This is my second birthday…
There behind the musical chairs is my father
And over there, in the center, in the sea green blouse,
is my mother
My parents were born in Bombay in British India. I remember
my mother telling us how Muslim women in India had to cover
their faces when they stepped out of their homes.
But I was born in Pakistan and I never saw my mother wearing
a veil. She explained that after Pakistan became independent the fear of foreigners faded away. Pakistan has a majority muslim population and people became relaxed about women roaming freely.
Musical chairs dissolves to women in hijaab playing tic tac on the beach
Razia in supermarket
Voice over: I have known Razia for several years as a friend of my sister.
She always struck me as a fashion conscious woman.
Razia interview in garden
Razia: Oh ya, I was very fashion conscious … any latest fashion which was, I
mean, whichever … when I saw magazines …, fashion magazines and all of that, most of them were Indian magazines and very few English magazines so … we … I used to follow the fashion …wear bell-bottoms, jeans, blouses, short blouses but, uh … I never wore mini-skirts …
There is no way you know I can go back to my good old days without a hijaab. Because now I know that a Muslim woman has to cover herself and there are no excuses.
Sabiha: Why do women have to cover themselves when don’t have to cover themselves….
Razia: You see, woman is an object like … she … she’s supposed to be attractive … God has made her attractive … there’s some attraction in her and basically I think it’s for your own protection because, you see, … why … why do one has to expose herself to others …
I do fashion for myself … I’m not spending all that money on Lancome
and Clarins and all to show … for other people to look at me and appreciate me … it’s like, I do it for myself.
Sabiha travelling in a car
Voice over: Razia’s transformation is so dramatic, I feel if I could begin to understand why wearing the hijab has become vital to her existence, that window may allow me to look into how women are coping nad surviving under creeping religiosity in the last two decades.
Rooftop discussion 4 women
Voice over: Three of my friends have actively resisted the erosion of women’s rights during this period.
Nausheen is a lawyer. She and I worked on legal and political education of women in prison.
Sabah heads a leading think tank in Islamabad and has worked on women’s development.
Aaliya works for an independent television network and is reading for a Ph D on Islamic Political Thought.
Sabiha: … what are the changes and where do we go from here.
Nausheen: Even the word Hijaab to me is quite a new and alien word. It was never part of my dictionary when I was growing up.
Aalia: Well it's not a phenomenon indigenous to the sub-continent, it's imported and the word Hijaab has come with it. From the Arab world that probably got it from the expatriate communities from Europe and America.
Sabiha: Yes but why would religion grow in such a massive way in this country. It's not that we haven’t been religious before. My mother was a deeply religious person and I don’t think that anyone would say that people who were of the past generation were not religious. I think they were.
Aalia: I think may be the one place to look for an answer for that is understanding what happened to Islam in Pakistan, in second generation Pakistanis because of the fact that they were in this nation state created with this Islamic Ideology.
Timeline 1947
Sabiha: So we start with 1947 which is the birth of Pakistan and its leader Mr. Jinnah makes an address to the constituent assembly and makes it very clear that the State and Religion are going to be separate. So he says: ``You may belong to any religion or cast or creed that has nothing to do with the business of the State….``
Nausheen: And then he says, “Now I think we should keep that in front of us as our ideal and you will find that in the course of time Hindus would cease to be Hindus and Muslims would cease to be Muslims...``
Sabiha: ``Not in the religious...``
Nausheen: ``But not in the religions sense, because that is the personal faith of each individual, but in the political sense as citizens of the state``. That’s the crux of it.
Sabiha: So lets put this up. Where we started on ‘47.
Sheraton Hotel Religious sermon
Voice over: Razia and her friends are regular invitees at religious sermons. It’s an expensive affair, arranged with meticulous detail at 5 star hotels all over the country.
Farhat Hashmi: Shuru karti hoon allah kay naam say jo bara mehrbaan , ba barkat wala hai. Bunyadi tour par Islam nay to har aurat ko aik independent will di hai. Aurat ka dimag, aurat ki soch ko mard kay tabay nahi rakha hai..kiyon kay allah tala Quran may farma tay hain tummay say jo bhi acha kam karay gaa khwan mard ho yeh aurat us ko uski koshish aur us ki mahnat ka badla zaroor milay gaa.
English Translation:
In the name of Allah, the most Beneficient and the most Bountiful. Basically Islam has given every woman an independent will. A woman's mind and reasoning cannot be male dominated… because God says in the Quran that anyone who does good deeds, whether man or woman, will certainly get the fruits of his labour.
Quran Arabic: Fabi aiyah allah illah rabakuma tukazaban
Haza jahanamu allazi ukazabu bihal mujrimoon
Yatufuna wa bayna hami un aan
Fabi allah illah rabakuma tukazaban
English Translation:
Which of God's blessings will you deny.
This is the Hell which the sinner's denied
Abide herein
Rooftop
Nausheen: They say it makes them feel good.
Aaliya: Yeh! Exactly
Nausheen: Because everywhere around us in society including within the family structure
we are trashed, we are trashed in the sense we are secondary. And here is a women, Farhat Hashmi, who is telling us that in front of God you guys are very important…
And yet it is fine because it is not challenging the status quo, and its not challenging the family structure for example it keeps them in their place its keeps them as wives, as mothers doing their duties, and being submissive and being obedient …
Sabah: This is such a extreme degree of colonisation, where the subject itself colonises itself and says that I am just fine the way I am. So this is the ultimate expression of oppression. It could be interpreted that way and then you have a really gloom and doom scenario ahead of you. I wouldn’t want to interpret it that way, just becauseI want to have hope...that in the larger context this is just…I want to believe that in the larger context of time this will evaporate and go away.
Women playing at the beach
Cabaret 1950’s
Voice over Looking at women today it is difficult to believe that not very long ago Pakistan had a vibrant night life. My father told us about cabarets, bars and casinos and about his experiments with ballroom dancing. He did not anticipate at that time the changes around the corner.
1956 images of trucks
Voice Over: When Pakistan’s first constitution was adopted in 1956, he proudly showed us the images he had filmed of the celebrations on the streets of Karachi.
Timeline 1956
Nausheen: If you look at the 56 Constitution the secular principles or the separation of state and religion, which Jinnah ascribes to, is gone.
Sabiha: Yes. The confusion begins there
Nausheen: Look at the words of the Objective Resolution, the confusion starts here. ‘Sovereignity belongs to Allah alone but he has delegated it to the State of Pakistan through its people for being exercised within the limits prescribed by him as a sacred trust’.
Sabiha: So we have a pretense of a modern nation state and we can’t effectively change anything because it is the will of God.
Suraiya in Kitchen
Voice over: I met Suraiya some years ago at the headquarters of a religious political party. She is very involved with it’s activities.
Interview Suraiya
Sabiha: Ma ki hasiyat say ranj aur dukh to hoo ga apnay betay kay janay par?
English: As a mother you must be grieved by your son's death?
Suraiya: Zahir hai ma hoon aur mujhay us ki bohat ziyada yaad aati hai magar phir jaab us maqsad ko dekhtee hoon to phir …
English: Obviously as a mother I miss him tremendously. But when I remember the cause…
Sabiha: Na to apkay shohar gayay Jihad par na apkay walid gayay, na aapkay bhai gayay to wo kyoon nahi gayay aur Tahir kyoon gaya?
English: Neither your husband, nor your father, nor brother went for Jihad. So why did Tahir, your son, go?
Suraiya: Wo kuch mahool aisa nahi tha na. Us waqt Kashmir ka masla itna ziyada...yani kay jaab khud Kashmirion nay jaab hathiar utha liya bohat dinoon tak unhoon ney intizar kiya, election may bhi hisa latay rahay lekin jab kisiy cheese ka koyi unko faida nahi huwa aur unhoon nay hatyar utha liya to phir Pakistan tak bhi yeh baat aiyee aur meray walid kay waqt Kahmir may koyi jihad ka koyee, mujhay nahi yaad kay koyee aeese baat hoti thi aur koyi khaas who hota tha.
Jab bhi mujhay khayal aata hai mey us ka liyeh bohaat ziyada dua karti hoon ka Allah taala bus us ka rutba bulund kar aur jis maqsa kay liyah us nah aapna saab kuch Qurban kiya hai us ko tu qabool farma. Aur may ney yahaan sabar kiya hai may wahan us say mil sakoon.
English: The atmosphere was not such. The Kashmir issue was not so…I mean Kashmiris waited for a long time before they rose up in arms. They kept participating in elections, but to no avail. But when they took to arms, this news reached Pakistan. During my father's time, I don't remember any such talk of Jihad.
Whenever I think of him, I pray to God to give him the highest place in Heaven and accept his sacrifice. And I have accepted this loss here, so that I may meet him there.
Sabiha: To aapko kabhi aasa khayal aata hai kay kash who nahi gaya hota Jihad par.
English: Do you ever wish that he hadn't gone for Jihad?
Suraiya: Nahi. Jaab bhi may sochti hoon Allah ki meherbani aur us ko to mai to sochti hoon kay yeh Allah tal ki bohaat ziyaada meherbani hai kay itna bada rutba meray betay ko diya.
Is lihaz say bhi soochen kay loog kiya nahi kartay apnay bachoon kay mustaqbil ko bana nay ka liyeh kiya kuch nahi kartay na. Magar aasal mustaqbil to woh hai kay wahan woh janaat ka mustahaq ban jayah aur jahanum say bach jayah.
English: No.Whenever I remember God's blessing, I think that this is the greatest honour that God has bestowed on my son.
Look, parents do everything possible for their children's future. But the real future is that he merits Paradise and is saved from Hell.
Interview Mufti Nizamuddin
Voice over: Mufti Nizamuddin is a well reputed Islamic scholar. He spends his time teaching Islamic studies.
Mufti: Deeni madaris, jo aap yun samaj lain kay aik islami inquilab kay liyah kaam karnay ka aik markaz hai. Us ki tataad may itna izafa huwa kay aaj say 10 saal balkay bees saal pehlay tak iska tasawur bhi nahi tha.
Who mulk may yeh naujawanoon may nazariyati kaam kar rahai hain. Nazariyati kaam ka matlaab yeh hai kay wo unhay islami inquilaab kay liyeh nazaariyah day rahay hain, aur pur amaan tariqay say us kay husool kay liyah unko tayaar kaar rahay hain.
Wajah us ki yeh hai kay maghrabi jamhooriat yeh parlimany jamhooriat ka jo taur tariqa hai us say Islami inquilab aa nahi sakta.
English: You may look at these religious schools as a centre for working towards an Islamic revolution. They have multiplied at a rate unprecedented 10 or 20 years ago.
They are carrying out ideological work amongst the youth in the country. This means they are providing them an ideology for an Islamic revolution and preparing them for its achievement through peaceful means.
The reason being that an Islamic revolution cannot be achieved through western or parliamentary democracy.
Sabiha’s writing
Voice over: Though it is hard to believe today, I grew up in a secular Pakistan.
I was 8 years old when I visited Baghdad with my parents. In a historical cemetry I remember noticing a small grave – obviously a child’s grave. I remember being stunned by the realisation that children also die. A series of questions arose in my mind about the imperfect design of the world. At that time, in Pakistan, there was space for philosophical inquiry about the mysteries of the world – where we come from and where we go. But this space slowly closed.
Timeline 1973
Sabiha: So, we are now on 73 and Bhutto, and Islamic socialism, and it is interesting that even someone like Bhutto who had so much popular appeal and really a mass base. The first time you experience in Pak a feeling amongst people……
Nausheen: Of being truly empowered.
Sabiha and Nausheen: Yeah
Sabiha: But he still has to lean on Islam.
Nausheen: He did a number of things, he banned alcohol and horse racing, he declared Friday to be a holiday rather than Sunday. So in his last throws he …
Sabiha: (Interrupting) He did everything
Nausheen: ….he thought if he clings to Islam, it may help him.
Sabiha: But it did not really. So Bhutto gets hanged.
Nausheen: Well the coup happens…
Sabiha: The coup happens with Zia and Bhutto gets hanged.
Nausheen: It really is quite frightening. It was a warning to all Politicians including
us that if we over step our limits, there is a way to get things redressed.
Sabiha: That is we will hang you, if you get out of limits.
Nausheen: So you know, the political parties are very quiet, the politicians are afraid. The whole country is really stunned because it’s the first time that a Prime Minister has been hanged.
Fatima dries clothes onher washing line
Voice over: As a 6 year old Fatima accompanied her mother who worked at our house as a maid.
Interview Fatima
Sabiha: Fatima tum kaab say kaam kar rahi ho?
English: Fatima, since when have you been working?
Fatima: May chooti thi jaab say.
Englsih: Since childhood.
Fatima: Phir us kay baad 15 saal ki umaar may shaadi ho gayee.
Englsih: Then I got married at the age of 15.
Sabiha: Shaadi kay baad tum na kaan nahi kiya, yah shohar nay zimadari sambhla yeh kiya huwa?
English: What happened after you got married? Did you stop working? Did your husband take over the responsibilities?
Fatima: Haan pehlay to bahir thay phir 6 mahinay kay baad aagayeh, aur jaab say…Phir idhar hee thora boohat kaam kar rahay thay. Kabhi hoota tha, kabhi nahi hoota tha. Aik kafta kartay thay aur aik hafta bethay rahtay thay.
Bolay tabiyat sahee nahi rahtee hai, chakar aatay hain meray ko kaam karta hoon too…
English: Initially, he was away for six months then he returned and since then…He has been working on and off. He would work for about a week then sit back the next week. He said he was unwell and had dizzy spells whenever he worked.
Mother: Ramzan say pehlay aik mahina betha tha. Ramzan pura kharcha iss nay kiya –shaadi may baatiyoon ka, har baat yehi kaarti hai. Bachoon kay kapra wapra saab yehi sambhalti hai…
English: He was idle for a month before Ramadan. She financed everything. Wedding lights, children's clothes, food. Everything she did.
Fatima: Kaam do haaftay nahi gaayah, teesaray haaftay gayah to bula gir gaya. Bola chakar aa gayah gir gayah may…
English: When he went to work after a twoweek break, he returned complaining of a dizzy spell.
Mother: Kaam hi nahi kaar sakta hai.
English: He is simply incapable…
Sabiha: Maasi aap ko bhi kabhi kisay nay kaama kar diya
Englsih: Maasi has anybody ever provided for you?
Mother: Koi nahi diya. Rupiya nahi diya. Kitni mehnat aap kay samnay kitni mahnat Mummy kay wahan. Raat, Din.Kitney mahnat kaarti thi.
English: Never. Not a penny. You know how hard I have worked at your mother's -day and night. How much I have laboured.
Sabiha: Magar maasi yeh Ayub (son) kyoon kaam nahi kaarta hai?
Englsih: But why doesn't your son Ayub work?:
Fatima and
Mother together: Who to bechara jaata hai…
English: Poor thing he does his best…
Fatima: Woh zara mehnat ka kaam hai na. Chaar din kaarta hai to phir beemar ho jaata hai...
English: It is very hard work. He can't cope. He keeps falling ill.
Mother: Pani ka kaam hai nay, pani …
English: He has to work with water…
Fatima: Gardi, motor dhotay hain na
English: He has to wash cars…
Sabiha: To yeh kitney mahnat kaarti hai to yeh bimaar nahi hoti hai aur Ayub aur is ka shohar bimaar ho jatay hain. Kyon?
English: But Fatima works so hard and doesn't fall sick; and Ayub and her husband can't cope? Why?
Mother: Kiya karain…
English: What to do?
Rooftop discussion
Nausheen: At the grass root level especially if your talking about women, despite their traditional adherence to Islam etc because of its oppression in their daily life and because of course law and the structures of the state also work to support that oppression, many of our laws are actually sanctified by religion, They would be quite willing to totally give up on religion. If you talk to them they know that our freedom is restricted because of this, we are not allowed to do what we want to do but unfortunately our secular and liberal political parties have not been able to harness that energy at a grass root level.
Aaliya: Who bhi to dartay hain…
English: They are also scared
Sabiha: They are fearful because to get that space that is created by these women and the working class people who don’t need or have any space for religion in their lives means challenging the power base that exists.
Our ruling elites have always been feudal, the clergy and the army. And all these have interests tied together. And I think that because there has been this avoidance of a power struggle, whether by women's organisations, whether it is by so called progressive political parties in this country or what have you. It is the avoidance of a power struggle that has landed us in this mess and we have never really dealt with that question. We’ve never really understood what it means.
Aaliya: Well religious authority is a particularly difficult power to take on, you feel very vulnerable, you don’t know what leg to stand on.
Sermon dead body
Woman 1: Who yun hi nahi uthaa layta. Yeh Allah tala ka karam hai kay who aurat ko usyee ahtaymaam kay saat, usee parday kay saat, usee safai kay saat
English: God requires women to be properly covered after death. By His Grace he has instructed for the same segregation and cleanliness for the burial.
Voice over: Another religious sermon in a humble neighbourhood. This time the topic is how to prepare a woman’s body for her funeral.
Woman 1: Ghusaal honay tak mayat ka ahtaram, chard upaar hi rahna chahi yeh. Agaar chadar geeli ho jayaa paani kay paarnay say to pehlay aik sukhi chadar upaar layee jaayay phir woh neechay say geeli chadar haataee jayee.
Isliyah kay khawateen ko in tamaam cheezoon ka ilm nahiu hoota to parday ka khas khayal rakhna hai. Kay marnay ka baad bhi us ka koyee bhi sataar khula huwa na rahay.
Pehlay may aap ko bata deyti hoon jin cheezoon ki zaroorat parti hai us may qanchee, nehlanay kay kapra may sabun baghair khushbu, aur chemical wala, dastaanay royee, sar ko pochnay ka kapra, aik choota kapra naak, kaan saaf karna ka, khushboo walay phool koyee bhee sukhay huway...
…leykin may yeh soch rahi thee kay may aur aap yeh kaasay bhool saktay hain ka hum us khaliq kay pass jaanay walay hain jis kay samnay jawab dahi karni hai jahan say koyee farar nahi hai, wahan say to bhag hee nahi sakta..wahan say to kissi dusari jaga shift ho hee nahi saktay. Who to point aeesa puka hai kay wahan jaana aur jaana hai.
English: Special care should be taken during the final bath that her body is covered at all times. If the covering sheet gets wet, spread a dry sheet over the body before removing the wet one. I am emphasising this because many women don't know that no part of her body should be exposed.
You will need sccisors, body sponge, unscented and chemical free soap
gloves, cotton wool, drying cloth, and a cloth for cleaning orifices, dried fragrant flowers…
And how can we forget that we are going to our creator where we have to
Answer for our deeds. From where there is no escape. We can't run away from this day. It is an indisputable truth that we must meet our maker.
Vantage point view of city traffic
Voice over: Did I say I was born in a secular Pakistan? I guess I was wrong. I realise now that I grew up in a schizophrenic society – suspended precariously between Islamic ideology and secularism.
Hina outside supermarket
Voice over: I met Hina by chance. Her ambition is to be a successful model. I foundher flamboyance intriguing.
Hina interview
Hina: Well I believe in enjoying my life. I don’t think that Islam, my religion, this system or anybody has the right to stop me from being what I am, what I want to do. I don’t think I am doing anything wrong. I just stay within my limits and yet I am enjoying my self very much. I love my life the way it is.
Hina: The system doesn’t understand that I am also a human, I have rights and they are not ready to give it to me.
Mother: Not only rights, feelings emotions…
Hina: Rights, feelings, emotions whatever I have, all these things, I am a human also. I have been given these rights by Islam, by God, they can’t take it away from me.
Islam is very liberal where women are concerned, Islam is very supportive of women. First of all we need to educate people that all these things that you people are saying most of it Islam does not agree with. So that’s the first thing.
Sabiha: What would you say to a Quranic verse which says a man can beat his wife?
Hina: The Quran has hidden meaning inside it. It has hidden meaning
inside it. You need to have brains to read between the lines. Basically that verse is about women who refuse to have children. And that is after you have talked to them tried to convince them and yet they don’t understand and ready to comply, than that is the time you can beat them. It’s only for women who refuse to have children. It’s not for anybody else.
Sabiha: So you think its right to beat a woman who does not want to have children?
Hina: Well no. I think it’s her choice.
Man: Basically what the system is. We cannot deny the system in fact.
Sabiha: And do you agree with that, that you cannot deny the system.
Hina: I don’t entirely agree with that because I do a lot of things and get away with a lot of things. But of course you have to have brains to see where the cracks of the system are and where you can easily squeeze in. You can’t get away with everything. But yes that’s the way the system is; you can’t always go against it. In some situations sometimes you can, but not always. That is the sad part.
Rooftop
Sabiha: In the 50’s and 60’s when there was more economic freedom. We were happier
and a more prosperous country, religion was also a liberal face to us. And then in the late 70’s, 80’s and 90’s the recession deepened and also coincided with General Zia at exactly the same time.
Nausheen: And all the while this particular regime was very well funded not only with USAID but as you are saying with Arab money with Saudi money and with a lot of money that was going into the Afghan war. So It’s also a political phenomenon. You can’t get away from that.
Sabah: Especially post Afghan war 1980, 79 December 1980 onwards. Those connections are clearly there, and that is where the military started to get all kinds of economic military assistance, the CIA was involved what you talk about the judiciary, the whole education system being Islamised and all of that came with a particular foreign backing.
Timeline 1979
Nausheen: Some of the changes that Zia-Ul-Haq puts into place are so wide ranging that I
think that one can confidently say that in many ways he has changed the face of this country. So collectively we have become a much more sort of conservative religious society.
Nausheen So, 79 he promulgates the Hudood Ordinances
Sabiha: The Hudood Ordinanaces really mean Islamic laws that basically affected women took away their right to divorce, took away their right to making their choices, about who they marry and who they don’t.
Nausheen: It made adultery, a crime punishable by stoning to death. And because of the way the law was subsequently implemented, it just went meant that hundreds and hundreds of women were being imprisoned and spending many many years awaiting trial.
Sabiha arrives at Birmingham airport
Voice over: As the noose tightened around women’s necks, some of us fought for secular rights and rejected framework.
Shaheen in Library
Voice over: But Shaheen, like some other women, believes a feminist interpretation of the Quran will give women their rights. Shaheen was the former Provincial Minister for Health and also headed the National Commission on the Status of Women.
At present she is teaching Islamic Law at Warwick University in Britain.
Interview Shaheen
Shaheen: I found that so interesting to see that out of the six thousand six
hundred sixty-six verses of the Quran six verses only create a gender hierarchy, six thousand six hundred sixty call for complete equality. How come that in fourteen hundred years of the jurisprudential evolution, and knowledge and analysis how come that the six completely out weight the six thousand six hundred and sixty. Because it was a male elite who were jurists, who were scholars, who were judge, who were legislators, who were rulers… so they just picked the ones, half a dozen lines, completely overwhelming the rest… But these six verses that I found that do create gender heirarchies actually have a pre-condition attached to them. And the pre-condition is economic superiority of the male to protect women. And if you take away that economic superiority then the authority that the man is suppose to have over the woman, I think, from a strictly legal perspective just vanishes. Because if you don’t fulfil the pre-conditions. So for example, it says men are the protectors and providers of women because they provide out of their wealth. That is a rough translation of one of the verses that creates these hierarhises. Now my question is what about those households where there are no males, where the woman provides and protects and is the person who is economically resposible nad incharge of the household. What happens then?
Sabiha: But what if I were to argue that actually Islam is a patriarchal religion in itself?
Shaheen: Well all world religion are patriarchal
Sabiha: So then if Islam is patriarchal and its soil is patriarchal then how can women find their rights within the same text? Are women organising for power then? How are women to make their interpretation the ruling force.
Shaheen: That would be extremely hard. I mean I’m saying this from my own
experience…I mean when I’m saying my own, I mean experiences of women around me…and when I think it would be counter-productive its because it puts peoples’ backs up immediately when you confront. So confrontational politics and strategies not where it is so deeply ingrained in the psychology of the society…I doubt it very much whether it works successfully, and it might be counterproductive and it might create a barrier for other women.
Shaheen: I find that there is an inbuilt element almost of subverting the patriarchal. So I think that… that’s the kind of balance, and it’s a very fine balancing act to make.
Sabiha in car
Voice over: Watching Shaheen side step the question of power struggle and seek refuge in reinterpretation, I could not help but wonder where Christian women would be today if they were still interpreting the Bible.
Mufti: Islam yeh kehta hai, mardoon ko bhi dawat deyta hai, targeeb dayta hai kay who akar is kitaab ka ilm hasil kar lain aur khawateen ko bhi is ki dawat dayta hai kay wo is kitab ka ilm hasil kar lain. Phir is ki tashree aur tafsir ka haq bhi sab ko hai. Jitna aik mard ko hoo sakta hai utna aik aurat ko bhi hai. Leykin, mard kay liyah bhi yeh zaroori hai kay us ki tashree aur tafseer usi chokhat aur dayarah may karay jo Islam ibtida say bayan karta chala aa raha hai. Aur khawateen ko bhi is ki ijazaat hai. Leykin who jo qawaneen hain, aik ayeen ki tarhaan, un qawaneen aur us aeen ki rooshaani may rah kar jo tafseer who chahain kareen.
English: Islam invites both men and women to come and seek knowledge from the Divine Book. And everyone has a right to it's interpretation and explanation. A woman has as much right as a man. But it is also essential, for both, men and women, to contain the interpretationand explanation within the parameters of Islam in its pristine form.
Quranic laws are like a constitution and any explanation can be given provided it is within the light of this constitution.
Sabiha: Magar who chokhaat jis ka aandar rah kar yeh tafseer karni hai, who chookhat kiss nay banayee hai?
English: But who determines the parameters within which the interpretation is to be made?
Mufti: Woh Allah Tabarak o tala nay, Allah kay rasool nay aur Allah nay iss kitaab may khud who zikar kardi hai. Jiss kitab ki hum tafseer karna chahaatay hain, us kitaab may khud woh chokhat zikar hai.
Englsih: God Almighty Himself, His Prophet and His Book mentions the framework. The Quran itself contains the parameters within which laws may be interpreted.
Sabiha: Yehi to farq hai western political democracy may aur aik Islami nizaam may kay wahan par aap yeh bhi kha dain key yeh qanoon sahi nahi hai ya yeh zaza sahi nahi hai . Aggar wahan ki huqumaat ko ikhtilaaf bhi hoo aap ki baat say, to aap ko saza nahi mil sakti hai…
English: This precisely is the difference between western political democracy and an Islamic system is that one may question laws and punishments and even if the government objects it cannot punish you for voicing your opinion…
Mufti: Muhtarma aik bunyadi farq yeh hai kay un kay qawaneen insanoon kay bana yeh huwa who hain.Is liyeh un qawaneen par baat karnay ki bhi gunjaaish hooti hai, un ko sahi aur ghalat kah nay ki bhi gunjaaish hooti hai. Leykin aik Musalman ki hasiyat say agar hum yeh aqida rakhtay hain kay yeh qanoon Allah ka bana ya huwa hai to wahan par humay yeh ikhtiar baqi nahi rahtay ka hum us kay wujood ko challenge karain.
English: Muslims, if we Madam, the basic difference is that their laws are man made and therefore open to discussion. They can also be debated as right or wrong. But, as acknowledge that a law is made by God, we don't have the right to challenge its veracity.
Women in Hijaab in water
Interview Hina
Sabiha: And Hina what do you think would happen if you were to go out on the streets with say about a hundred women demanding equal rights. Say equal legal system or something. What would happen?
Hina: They would send the female police out to beat us up with sticks.
Mama: The male police and the female police.
Hina: The male police and the female police are going to beat us up and put us in jail for loitering and rioting and disturbing the peace.
Sabiha: So you would rather not go out demanding such things.
Hina: I would. I would. But then I need a 100 more women like that who willing to sacrifice the good name of their family and are ready to put up with their fathers and their respective husbands wrath if they do something like that.
Sabiha: And you think it is difficult to find 100 such woman.
Hina: Yes. I guess the women over here compromise because it is the easy thing to do. And the hard thing to do is to go out and struggle and be beaten up on and get pointed fingers. Even women they will penalise us that these women are crazy that they are nuts.
Sabiha: Why not say that religion is a separate and personal aspect of life and…
Hina: And who do you think is bold enough to do that. If you say that over here, they are going to kill you right away. That this person is blasphemous.
Who do you think is s bold enough to say that. Nobody is .
Interview Mufti
Sabiha: Magar agar hum Pakistan ka hawala lain to iss waqt power yah control to mardoon kay hi haat may hai na zahir hai jis kay pass control ho gaa, jiss kay pass power ho gaa wohi …
English: But with reference to Pakistan the power and control at present is in the hand of males, and obviously whoever holds the power strings…
Mufti: Leykin yeh batayeh kay duniya ka wo kaunsa khita hai jissmay power aur control mardoon kay haat may nahi. Kiya America may power aurecontrol mardon kay haat may nahi hai balkay app agar mazhab ki baat karteen hain to Bible ki tashreeh aur tafseer wagaira kiss kay haat may hai…
English: But you tell me where on earth is power and control not in the hands of males? Isn't power and control in the hands of men in America? If you are talking about religion then who is involved in the interpretation and explanation of the Bible, if not males?
Sabiha: Aap ka farmana durast hai kay har jaga hee power aur control mardoon kay haat mai hai aur auratain agar apnay taur say chalana chahaateen hain to agay maidan may aana ho ga…
English: You are right. Power and control is male dominated everywhere. But if women are to have their say, they must come out and make themselves heard…
Mufti: To yeh un ki kamzoori hai jo who peechay rah gaeen. Warna Islam nay unhay agay anay say nahi rooka hai. Who agay aayan aur control aapna haath may lay lain.
English: Then it is the women's weakness that they lag behind. Islam does not stop them from moving ahead. They can come forward and take control.
Sabiha: Magar un auratoon ka kiya ho ga jaab who aagay badhain gee control laynay kay liya tu kiya who mard jo control lay kar bethay hain aasani say chood dain gay control?
English: But what will happen to women when they move forward to take charge? Will the men relinquish control so easily?
Mufti: Is kay liyeh to inquilab ki zaroorat hoti hai. Aasani say koi nahi chordta.
English: You need a revolution for that. Nobody relinquishes power easily.
Time Line 1980’s and women’s protests
Nausheen: The first people who actually come out against Zia-ul-Haq are women. Later on they are supported by the political parties and the trade unions and other groups.But its really women who first protest against the Hudood Ordinances.
Sabiha: Lets put these up then.
Nausheen: And then ofcourse during that period we had our advertisement. And that advertisement solicited 12,000.
Sabiha: Yeah.
But I can’t imagine right now that we could have a protest of twelve thousand people in Pakistan saying that Islamic laws don’t give us our rights, we want to live within a secular democratic system. You know I keep thinking back that there is just no space for that kind of work whatsoever.
Interview Suraiya and friends
Suraiya: Leykin aami jan jannat hasil karna bhi aasan kam nahi. Mujhe bhi yahaan aa kar pata chala hai aur aagay ja kar aur pata chalay gaa. Aami aap kehti hain kay jihad kay saath saath pardhaee bhi zaroori hai. Pehlay kuch bun jaaoo phir jihad par chalay jaana. Jihad say intnay arsay kay liyeh duur kiyon rahoon.
Englsih: And my dear mother, it is not easy to get to heaven. I've learnt this here and I am sure to learn more with time. Mother, you say that education is as important as jihad. You wanted me to become somebody before going to jihad. But why should I spend so many years not going to jihad.
Woman: Aik blood ka aik drop nikalta hai jisam say shaheed ka ussi waqt us ko
janaat dikha di jaati hai. Koi takleef next nahi aati. Kuch bhi takleef nahi. Woh muskurata huwa jaa raha hota hai. Us ko kuch nahi pata koyee bhun raha hai goliyoon say ussay, yah koyee maar raha hai, yah ussay koi kha raha hai koyee parinda. Bus sirf drop girta hai aur us ko janaat dikha di jaati hai.
English: One drop of blood, just one drop falls from the body of a martyr and he can see heaven before him. He feels no more pain. No pain at all. He is smiling as he leaves the world. He is not aware if somebody is spraying bullets on him, or somebody is beating him up or a bird is picking at his flesh. Just one drop falls and he sees heaven before him.
Suraiya: Loog maut say bohaat dartay hain. Is kay baad say mujhay maut say dar nahee lagta – kay aik who rahta hai kay jab maroon gee to us say mulaqat hoo gee.
English: People are very scared of dying. But after him I don't fear death at all. In fact, I have a feeling that when I die I'll be able to meet him again.
Woman: Inshallah ho gay na tum shaheed? Allah mian kay pas toffiyan khao gay na ja kar? Allah mian kay pas kitnee saree toffiyan hain. Har cheez hai na? Kitni piyaree, piyaree cheezain hain na?
English: God willing, you will be a martyr, won't you? You will go to God and eat toffees, won't you? God has so many toffees, doesn't he? He has everything, doesn't he? Such beautiful, wonderful things, doesn't he?
Child: Han jee
English Yes.
Woman: Shaheed ho gay, ho gay? Shaheed hona hai aapnay? Yes
English: You will be a martyr, won't you? Do you want to be a martyr? Yes.
Two women and child flying a kite at the beach
Fatima goes to work
Fatima: Aap khaoo gay chapati? Chotay chotay tukday kar doon chapati kay?
Aalu doon? Nai? Bohaat garam hai na?
English: Will you have some bread? Should I cut into smaller pieces? Potatoes? No? It's hot isn't it?
Sabiha : Agar tum ko koyee bolay chalo sarak par nikaltay hain sub aurtain aur kuch ahtejaj kartay hain, hukoomat say mangtay hain kay auratoon ko bhi kuch sahulatain milain. Tum kiya karo gee?
English: If somebody were to ask you to come out on the streets with other women and protest and demand from the government that women be given their rights, will you do it?
Fatima: Main to subha jaati hoon aur sham ko aatee hoon. To apney pait kay us may hee fursat nahi milti hai to kiya jaaoon. Haftay may aik chutee miltee hai aur wo bhi sara din kaam may lag jaata hai. Aana, jana kidhar hota hai.
English: I go in the morning and come back in the evening. I am working all the time just to make ends meet. Where do I have the time to go anywhere.
Sabiha: To tum ko agar koyee bolay tum ko kiya chahiyeh zindagi say, duniya may to kiya bolo gee tum?
English: So if somebody were to ask you what you wish for, what you want from life, what would you say?
Fatima: Zindagi may kiya chahiyeh abhi? Zindagi to bus aesahee hai – bus kam, kam may hee zindagi hai. Aur kiya zindagi say mangain.
English: What can I ask? Life is just like that - work and more work. What can I ask life to give me.
Rooftop
Aailya: I guess picking upon that religion is an answer people turn to when they are disillusioned with evry other alternative and it is just a matter of time before they will be disillusioned with this one as well.
Sabiha: That is what we all hope for. That it will go full circle and it won’t deliver in the end. Like in Iran today…
Nausheen: But yes, but you see at the moment here in Pakistan we have a strange situation. You see Iran had its revolution the clergy took control. They did not deliver. Here we have a very strange situation because the clergy is in control and is yet not in control and what we see in front of us is a more liberal western face, which is again not delivering because its not delivering the jobs and not delivering the economic security …(inaudible interruption)
and it's in fact helping along the clergy ...
Sabah: But the other side of the story is that the clergy hasn’t triumphed completely either because the liberal face has still kept…has to be kept intact whereas they, they would love to grab State power directly. So…
That’s the other way of looking at the glass, you know, half full..
Nausheen: Yes but Sabah they haven’t triumphed is it because the liberal face is strong? Again I come back to the fact that it is because at the grass root level people are not interested in religion, they are interested in …their concerns are economic, and physical and law and order. And that is why the clergy hasn’t triumphed. It’s not a victory for you and me. We are still very marginal and we are still on the fringes.
Voice over : There is no end to our discussions…
Why is there no support – neither financial, nor ideological for secular politics in Pakistan?
Clearly, the people of Pakistan would be willing to buy into an alternate ideology that is relevant to their daily concerns.
Why is it that no leader – not even Benazir Bhutto- has been able to reverse the trend of Islamization and put General Zia-ul-Haq’s ghost to rest?
8mm footage of Sabiha’s birthday dissolves to Dhiya’s 10th birthday
Voice over: It’s the same house 40 years later. It is my daughter Dhiya’s 10th birthday. When people stop asking questions it’s a very dangerous time, I tell Dhiya. When she grows up I want her to ask: Does half the nation benefit by being covered in layers of cloth? Or does the other half benefit? Or is it a small coterie of rulers who benefit at the expense of both?
A large number of women walk along the beach towards the camera.
Roll Titles