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Title:  Foreign Correspondent

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00.00.00

George Negus

Negus:  Hello, and welcome to another program. This week, killing elephants to save them in Zimbabwe. And special coverage of the latest dramatic turn of events in Cambodia

00:38:20

Map of Zimbabwe, shots from elephant story

In Zimbabwe, we got big game hunting.

00:48:08

Barry:  Behind the shoulder, don't hit his horns.

Negus:  And the hunter pays for his trophy.

Constantine:  Oh, he's warm.

Negus:  They say it's the only way to preserve the mighty African elephant.

Barry:  If elephant didn't have a value, for instance, it would all be shot as pests. But now, because it has got a trophy fee upon it, there is a value to it.

Map of Cambodia, visuals from Pol Pot story

Negus:  From Cambodia, the demise of Pol Pot. Physically still alive, but politically dead. This time, the experts say, it really is the end.

01:16:20

George Negus

First to Africa, where a few weeks back, for many around the globe, the unthinkable actually occurred. The elephant was struck off the endangered species list in three separate southern African countries. Potentially opening up a whole new international trade in ivory.

01:36:10

Speaker:  The motion is carried.

FX:  Applause

Negus:  When the vote was taken at Cites, the UN Convention on Trade in Endangered Species, at Harare, the representatives from Zimbabwe, Botswana and Namibia, took to the aisles to celebrate the victory.

FX:  Cheering.

Negus

Negus:  But not everyone celebrated. For many countries, the fear is that this contentious move could lead to mass slaughter of the elephant, even ultimately to its destruction. Reporter Dominique Schwartz travelled to Zimbabwe to find out why many there in fact believe quite the opposite. That rather than being a threat to the elephant, the new ivory trade will actually help save it.

02:14:15

Barry and Constantine on game hunt

Schwartz:  Constantine Kitsos is on the hunt. He's a cosmetic surgeon from Miami.

02:33:12

But with the help of safari hunter, Barry Style, and a team of trackers, he's hoping to bag himself a trophy.

Map showing Zimbabwe

Barry [whispering]:  We'll never get it from here. We'll never get it from here. I can see them.

03:11:00

Schwartz:  In the marginal farmlands of Nyaminyami district, in northern Zimbabwe, this is how the locals conserve their wildlife. By making money from it.

Constantine/game hunt

Most animals here have a price on their head. And the one with the biggest is the elephant, eleven thousand dollars.

0339:18

Barry [whispering]:  See that one there. He's got his back to us. He's facing away. Okay, can you see him? He's facing away from us. He's got white on his rump...

Barry interview

Barry:  If elephant didn't have a value, for instance, it would all be shot as pests. But now because it has got a trophy fee upon it, there is a value to it.

04:18:03

Matusadona National Park/animals

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Schwartz:  At the core of Nyaminyami district lies Matusadona National Park. It's a sanctuary for all manner of wildlife - zebra, impala, hippos, and of course, the elephant.

04::39:16

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Elephants in park

Schwartz:  Here in Zimbabwe, the elephant is no longer endangered. There are 66,000 of them, and their number is rising as fast, if not faster, than the human population.

04:59:08

Unless the two species can devise a plan for living together, there'll be war. And there's no prize for guessing who'll win.

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Schwartz in national park

Super:

DOMINIQUE SCHWARTZ

Schwartz:  Well I can't imagine anyone seeing an elephant in the wild and not being impressed. On sheer size alone, this is a truly magnificent creature, and one which should be saved. And in this debate, no one is disputing that. Not even here in Zimbabwe. But what the Zimbabweans are saying is that banning the sale of ivory is no way to guarantee the long term survival of the elephant.

05:24:16

In a country where humans and wildlife are in constant conflict, they say elephants must pay their way. Or else, they'll be on the way out, for good.

View from car/Muketiwa driving

FX:  Car

06:01:24

Muketiwa:  See, there's no big trees now. All those big trees are dying. And all here, no vegetation. Soil erosion.

Schwartz:  Zeff Muketiwa is the warden at Matusadona.

The park, he says, can cope with only 1,500 elephants. One for every square kilometre. At the moment, there's almost double that.

Schwartz:  Muketiwa wants to cull 350 elephants before they eat not only themselves, but other species, out of house and home.

Muketiwa:  This is chief food for elephant, but the population of elephant has affected its regrowth.

Schwartz:  How tall should this tree be?

Muketiwa:  This tree should be as big as that one that was already killed.

Schwartz:  Was that killed by the elephants?

Muketiwa:  Yeah. They removed the bark for food.

Muketiwa interview

Schwartz:  So what do you think of the decision then to possibly re-allow the trade in ivory.

07:06:06

Muketiwa:  This is going to help the management program on a sustainable basis. And we look at this as a good thing.

Schwartz:  If you're not able to export ivory, what will that mean for the long term future of the elephant?

Muketiwa:  The people who come here for sport hunting need to take their ivory back. If they cannot take their ivory back to their countries, there is no sport hunting. And they can't survive without that. That discourages conservation in Africa.

Elephant in park

FX:  Bird

07:42:18

Schwartz in park

Schwartz:  One of my most terrifying experiences, ever, was coming face to kneecap with an agitated elephant that I thought was about to charge me. Well, it didn't, and I obviously survived to tell the tale. But had I not, it would have been nobody's fault by my own. Because I was out looking for elephants. But for the people who live here, on the edge of Matusadona National Park, there's no such choice. Whether they like it or not, the elephants come to their villages. They trample their crops, and sometimes even kill.

Maines with baby/Cotton picking

If Maines Maringisanwa had her way, there would be no elephants.

08:21:22

Maines:  What these animals are doing to us is very bad. They go into our fields and destroy everything. They see a person - they kill. So we can't say they're good animals because of what they did to us.

Villagers picking cotton/Maines interview

Schwartz:  It's hard enough to scratch a living from this ungiving land without having to share it with the tuskers. Already this year they've trampled her maize, eaten her cotton plants, and killed her husband.

08:48:21

Maines:  We were standing right here. The elephant went into the fields but didn't eat anything.  It was coming from over there.  It then moved to the place over there.  When it came back from there it came towards my husband but he didn't see it at first.

Schwartz:  By the time he did, it was too late.

Maines

Maines:  He was running away from the elephant when it caught up with him there.  The elephant threw him over there in that open place. We all came and saw him lying there.

09:33:03

Wilson and Schwartz in Maize fields

Wilson:  Okay, we're on two and a half acres, a field of maize which was destroyed by elephants. You can see the tracks of the elephants through the maize.

09:50:17

Schwartz:  Wilson Nberi is a nephew of the dead man. He's also the Nyaminyami District chairman, the person with the unenviable task of convincing locals that elephants are worth saving.

Wilson:  It's not very easy to explain to such a family.

Wilson

But if we get benefits, if the ivory's sold and money comes back to the community, not at a district council level, but if the money goes right down to the community, I think the community are prepared to look after their natural resources.

10:25:00

Barry and Constantine on game hunt

Barry [whispering]:  Don't go for it, don't drop him yet, don't drop him yet.

10:42:16

Schwartz:  After a day scrabbling through the bush after a herd of buffalo, Constantine finally has his sights set on the old bull.

FX:  Gun shot

Schwartz:  If the beast dies, Constantine gets the horns. And Nyaminyami collects the $1,800 trophy fee.

Barry:  Behind the shoulder. Don't hit his horn. Don't hit his horn. Don't hit his horn.

Schwartz:  Half the money will go to the district council, and half directly to the local community on whose land the bull drops dead.

Barry:  That's a fantastic bull. And a great shot. Well done.

Schwartz:  The wildlife benefits in the long run because it's used sustainably. The people benefit because they get money for much needed development.

Barry:  That's a good shot, great shooting.

Constantine:  ...like the bull riding that they do in Texas. Like you hold on. Let's do a bull ride. See you're holding on to the bull like this...

12:20:08

Schwartz:  It's a win-win situation. Unless of course, you're the bull.

Constantine:  Oh, he's warm.

Ivory storage shed

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12:45:13

Schwartz:  Nyaminyami, like many other poor districts in Zimbabwe, has a pile of tusks sitting under lock and key. The locals can't wait for the day it'll be converted into cold, hard cash. That moment may come in 21 months' time, when under the CITES plan, two lots of tusks will be auctioned off and transported to Japan.

Schwartz in ivory storage shed

Schwartz:  When Zimbabwe talks about the elephant paying its way, this is really what it's all about. Thirty-three tonnes of ivory, potentially worth millions and millions of dollars, languishing in a government warehouse in Harare. This is what Zimbabwe wants to sell to Japan. Now if it can guarantee that only these tusks - that is, the legal stockpile - is sold on to the market, there is a chance that the elephant may benefit. But if the trade can't be controlled - and there are many that fear it can't be - then we could see a return to the wide scale poaching of the seventies and eighties, which led to the decimation of elephant populations across Africa.

13:19:01

Man carving ivory

FX:  Drill

14:05:14

Schwartz:  Zimbabwe has never stopped dealing in ivory. Throughout the international ban, it ran a legal domestic market in Africa's white gold.

But the industry has been hounded by allegations of corruption and mismanagement, which critics say doesn't augur well for a widening of the trade.

14:23:00

The fear is that Zimbabwe and the other trading nations will become outlets for illegal ivory - either stockpiled or freshly culled.

Schwartz:  Can Zimbabwe control the ivory trade?

Clive Wilson interview

Super:

CLIVE WILSON

‘The Independent' Newspaper

Clive Wilson:  I don't think so. I don't really think so. The record isn't very, very good. There's been a parliamentary inquiry you may have heard about, and a report presented to parliament, which indicated that the National Parks Department is in complete disarray. This is a result of a shortage of money to a certain extent, but more so of an enormous amount of political interference which is taking place in the department. We have a political appointee now at the head of National Parks who's not qualified in any way to run such a department.

14:47:18

Schwartz:  That's Mr Makombe.

Clive Wilson:  Yes, Mr Makombe.

Makombe interview

Makombe:  We have given all that we have in terms of management of wildlife. And we are very proud of it.

15:21:21

Schwartz:  Wilas Makombe rejects allegations of departmental misdealing, particularly the claim by the CITES Panel of Experts, that 10 tonnes of ivory left Zimbabwe illegally last year.

Super:

WILAS MAKOMBE

National Parks & Wildlife Mgt.

Makombe:  We asked Interpol, we asked CITES management and scientific authorities all over the world to track down where that went. As far as our ivory stores is concerned, no ivory came out. No ivory was exported. And up to the time the CITES conference was held, nobody had substantiated what the Panel of Experts said. I don't know where they got it.

15:50:23

Schwartz:  So you would say that your management of that storehouse of ivory is absolutely watertight?

Makombe:  Yes. You could not say 100 per cent watertight, but it is watertight, according to the standards that we've put in place.

Ground patrol member in Jeep in park

Schwartz:  And that's what worries the critics.

16:28:12

Schwartz:  Standards have been sliding in the Department of National Parks and Wildlife Management along with the budget - now only one-third of what it was a decade ago.

Poaching, although not as prevalent as before the ivory ban, is on the rise. And ground patrols like this one in Nyaminyami, would have little hope of stemming any resurgence in the slaughter of elephants.

Barry:  We're looking at an area of about 850,000 acres, just of communal land.

Barry

You've then got the adjacent Matusadona National Park, about half that size. You're looking at over a million acres. You're probably got a total of 20, at the most 30, game scouts trying to patrol an area of that size, with you know, thousands of people living in the area. It's impossible to control.

17:18:17

Elephant/game hunters in jeep

Schwartz:  Given the real risk of increased elephant poaching across Africa once the ban is officially lifted, one must wonder if a resumed ivory trade is just too big a gamble.

17:38:01

Zimbabwe can make plenty of money through tourism, trophy hunting, or even a limited trade in elephant hide. All options far less open to corruption.

Schwartz:  Does it all boil down to basically Zimbabwe needing the money from the ivory? Is that what this is all about?

Makombe

Makombe:  No, no, it is not. It is not the money. It is the concept. Zimbabwe is a sovereign country. If we have a resource, we don't see why we cannot use it.

18:13:19

Schwartz:  But isn't tourism potentially a much greater asset, or trophy hunting, or possibly the trade in the hide of elephant?

Makombe:  It is. But why having a resource from which we can get money to manage wildlife, why should we lock it up?

Elephants in park

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18:47:03

Schwartz:  The African elephant will survive only if those who live alongside it are its guardians, not its enemies. Hence the international community has decided to go along with Zimbabwe, Namibia, and Botswana, and give the ivory trade a shot. The onus now is not just on the trading nations, but the whole world, to ensure that that doesn't mean a sitting shot for poachers.

Music

Negus

Negus:  The newly sanctioned trade in ivory, and whether it will save or destroy the African elephant. Dom Schwartz there in Zimbabwe.

19:31:04

Now to Cambodia. After 18 years of rumour and speculation about his activities and whereabouts - even whether he was alive or dead - the first physical evidence that Pol Pot is still alive and being held by his own people, the Khmer Rouge. According to reports, he was put through what was obviously a show trial, by KR fighters. And found guilty of treason against the Cambodian nation. But what does this orchestrated public denunciation of Pol Pot really mean for strife torn Cambodia, still in the grip of Khmer Rouge renegade, Hun Sen, following his brutally successful coup.

So where do Hun Sen and his absentee Funcinpec co-Prime Minister, Prince Ranariddh, fit into all of this? And is a new civil war inevitable in Cambodia?

20:14:02

Earlier I spoke with former Australian Foreign Minister, Gareth Evans, one of the chief architects of what is now very much the failed $2.8 billion UN sponsored attempt to bring some sort of democracy to Cambodia, back in 1993.

Gareth Evans interview

Mr Evans, as somebody who's actually been with this whole saga for many, many years now, what was your reaction to this latest revelation that Pol Pot is not only alive, but he's been tried by his own people and found guilty, as it were.

20:37:06

Super:

GARETH EVANS

Former Australian Foreign Minister

Evans:  Well, a great sense of relief that at last the endgame seems to have reached its final phase, with the complete disintegration of the Khmer Rouge as we have known it. And with the complete disappearance of Pol Pot as an effective force. The fact that he is still alive, of course, means that he's still a candidate for bringing before an international war crimes, or genocide, tribunal of some kind. And that's a consummation devoutly to be wished. I hope the international community can bring that off eventually.

20:50:19

Negus

Negus:  It would be one hell of a war crimes tribunal.

21:16:24

Evans:  Absolutely. I don't think anyone can begin to contemplate the scale of the horror that was perpetrated, even with all the information that we've had, even with all the scenes we've seen at ?? and the powers of scales and so on, it was one of the most horrific chapters in human history. And it would be an appropriate way of bringing it to a final close.

21:19:23

Negus:  Are you absolutely convinced from what you know and now we know, that it is real and not another ruse by the KR?

21:42:13

Evans:  Oh, I think, while there's always a possibility of a few twists and turns as the final stages of this play itself out, the basic proposition that the Khmer Rouge has disintegrated, is no longer an effective fighting force, is no longer an effective even political force, and that its former leadership is no longer in a capacity to exert its baleful evil influence again, I think all of those things are absolutely true.

21:49:01

Negus:  On the other hand, Hun Sen is saying - not surprisingly - that it's a political game, that Pol Pot is still the leader of the Khmer Rouge, and as we've all said in the past, reports of his death, let alone his political demise, have been exaggerated.

22:15:21

Evans:  Well, remember that Hun Sen, to have any vestige of credibility internationally for what he's done with Ranariddh and the Coalition, and the coup, has to be able to say that the KR is still a potential force for evil. It's an excuse, not a reason. But it's not surprising that he should be still saying things like that. I don't think that necessarily should be taken at face value. I think he knows everybody else knows that the KR is at best a very, very marginalised player on the local scene.

22:30:08

Negus:  It's not much of a choice, is it, that the people of Cambodia have got between Hun Sen, the remnants of the KR, Ranariddh, and whatever. I mean it's a country that looks like it's almost unsaveable.

23:03:03

Evans:  Well, let's get this into perspective, George. What we did deliver with the UN Peace Plan was peace, in the sense of an end to the civil war, the demise of the Khmer Rouge, and an end to the interference and patronage within the country of the key outside regional players - China in particular, Vietnam, also a number of the ASEANs. So what we've got is a restoration, basically, of peace, and not much prospect, I think, of any renewed form of civil war breaking out.

23:14:14

Negus:  You believe that, do you? That there's not much chance of civil war. That militarily, nobody could stack up against Hun Sen at the moment.

23:47:19

Evans:  I think that's right. The prospect of their being any degree of international support, even politically, let alone militarily, for Prince Ranariddh, seems to be a very fading hope so far as the Prince is concerned.

23:24:13

Negus:  Are you disappointed with what's happened with Prince Ranariddh?

24:08:01

Evans:  I'm very deeply disappointed. The trouble with Prince Ranariddh, he didn't really deliver in terms of effective government, and I think the proof of that lies in the pudding, in terms of the reaction of his own supporters, both within the country and internationally.

24:12:19

Negus:  Did you back the wrong horse, as it were?

Evans:  No, he was clearly the leader and hopes were high. I know Ranariddh very well. I dealt with him over a long period, and he was good to work with during that particular period. But after he was elected, he simply - I think even his closest friends would say - didn't put in the hard yards, consolidating an effective administration and he's now suffering the penalty for them.

But let me finish what I was saying before. It's one thing to have achieved peace, it's another thing to have achieved democracy in the country. And we made a start on the democratic process of course, with the election in ‘93. But immediately it appeared that that was pretty fragile. Hun Sen failed to accept the reality of his defeat there. He forced himself into this uneasy coalition, and now I think we're seeing the working out of a process that had it roots, its genesis, in that time.

24:49:07

That's not altogether surprising. It's very disappointing. We'd hoped for better. But remember that this is not an unusual situation in South East Asia, for a strong man backed by a military regime, to be the dominant political force. And for the countervailing democratic tends to be pretty weak.

Negus:  Does that mean - well is there no choice but to cop this guy, who's not the slightest bit interested in democracy, rather prefers to take power by a coup.

25:40:04

Evans:  It may mean that we have to accept the reality of his dominance of the political scene in Cambodia. It doesn't mean that we have to accept him on his own terms. There are plenty of things the world can and should be doing to ensure that there's an end to political violence and persecution, that there is the maintenance of at least a semblance of democratic forms with the continuity of the existing coalition, and that there is a proper election held next year, properly internationally monitored. We do have a lot of leverage through our aid, through our trade and investment, and in the case of ASEANs, through the stamp of political approval and credibility they can give by allowing entry into ASEAN. All of those are effective pressure points. They ought to be utilised. We should not be accepting Hun Sen's present position.

Negus:  Thanks very much for helping us sort out a pretty complicated state of affairs where Cambodia's concerned, as usual.

26:33:06

Evans:  Thanks, George.

Negus

Negus:  That's it for tonight. With Cambodia on the boil, and not for the first time. More reports next week. See you then.

26:39:07

Series music

CREDITS:

ZIMBABWE ELEPHANTS

Reporter            DOMINIQUE

                      SCHWARTZ

Camera  GEOFF CLEGG

Sound   SCOTT TAYLOR

Editor    STUART MILLER

Producer            SUE SPENCER

26:50:04

WORLD IN FOCUS

Producers  MARIANNE LEITCH

                       SARAH ARMSTRONG

Editors        STEPHANIE

                     ZVERINOVA

                     STUART MILLER

Presenter/Editorial Adviser

GEORGE NEGUS

Titles Music

RICK TURK

Studio Director

JANET ARGALL

Studio Cameras

PETER DAWSON

Studio Sound

BURCE JOHNSON

Vision Mixer

ANGUS MILLAR

Operations Assistant

JEFF KASTER

Lighting Director

RAY MILLS

Graphic Design

ANN CONNOR

Production Assistant

TRACEY ELLISON

Associate Producer

MARTIN BUTLER

Producer

HAYDN THOMPSON

Executive Producer

DUGALD MAUDSLEY

Foreign Correspondent

Australian Broadcasting Corporation ©1997