JANINE COHEN: This man sought help just in time.
ANDREW AGG: I was trying to control what Roxanne did financially, emotional control like trying to control how she should feel.
ADAM HIGGINS: I’ve choked her, she nearly passed out. I’ve hit her, thrown things at her, actually kicked her, punched her.
ALEX KHARNAM: She was eight and half months pregnant and I hit her with the winch handle on the boat.
ANDREW AGG (at men's meeting): One of the kids go, don't fight daddy, don't fight with mummy ...
JANINE COHEN: These men are trying to stop their controlling or violent behaviour. They’re three of hundreds of men around Australia volunteering for men’s behaviour change programs.
MAN (at men's meeting): I'm saying I don't want to persecute her and ...
ROXANNE AGG: He’s still very much in the process but I can bear it, I can cope with it now.
KRISSY HIGGINS: I’m more comfortable, I feel safe now, I don’t have thoughts of really running away anymore and hiding the kids and taking off overseas. I still don't have a passport (laughs).
ALEX KHARNAM (at men's meeting): During the actual crunch time I was angry and blaming and basically ...
JANINE COHEN: Tonight "Four Corners" looks at family violence and the work being done by those trying to reform. We follow three men over six months to see if they can change and save their marriages.
(On screen text: "Changing Men"; "Reporter: JANINE COHEN")
(On screen text: "Andrew's Story")
JANINE COHEN: Andrew Agg is one of those men who desperately wants to change.
(On screen text: "September 2007")
ANDREW AGG (speaking to daughter, in front of birthday cake): On the count of three with Daddy… one , two, three!
ROXANNE AGG: (to Andrew and daughter): Blow!
JANINE COHEN: Today his daughter Mikayla turns three. Her mother Roxanne never thought they’d still be together as a family to celebrate.
ANDREW AND ROXANNE AGG (singing to daughter): Happy birthday to you, happy birthday dear Mikayla/Micky, happy birthday to you ...
JANINE COHEN: Andrew had never hit his wife but they both knew it was a just a matter of time.
ANDREW AGG: But the level of my anger on occasion could lead to quite easily the next step of physically harming Roxanne.
JANINE COHEN (to Roxanne Agg): If Andrew hadn’t decided to do something, what would your greatest fear have been?
ROXANNE AGG: Of being injured, of being hurt emotionally, physically, beyond repair, of my kids being hurt emotionally beyond repair and of taking my kids out of their home.
JANINE COHEN: Roxanne and Andrew met seven years ago at a party. They dated for a year before moving in together.
ROXANNE AGG: Things were just absolutely wonderful. It was the most perfect thing that ever happened and I thought, "I’ve met the man I want to be with the rest of my life."
JANINE COHEN: But not long after living together, Andrew Agg started looking at his wife’s private bank accounts and controlling what she wore and who she saw.
ROXANNE AGG: He used to get angry when I would go out and spend any of my own money. He used to get angry when I went out and spent too much money on shopping.
ANDREW AGG: It’s a power thing being in control of your partner, knowing everything they’ve done, making them account for why they did it.
JANINE COHEN: Things got worse when Roxanne became pregnant four years ago.
ROXANNE AGG: When I was pregnant with my first child I was not unwell but relatively ill. There was a lot of, initially a lot of quiet anger. He wouldn’t say anything but his behaviour was just, he was just angry all the time.
JANINE COHEN: Their relationship deteriorated further when Roxanne, a paediatric nurse, went on maternity leave with their first daughter Mikayla.
ROXANNE AGG: The next step was when he started to, when we'd have an argument he’d swear more at me, he’d get more angry at me and he’d start to corner me. He’d start to just be more physically intimidating. It got to a point where I just didn’t know what to do. He wouldn’t let me out of the house at times and it got really scary, yeah.
ANDREW AGG: Yeah well I guess I’m six foot and 90-odd kilos and so, um, so yeah I’d get a, put an intimidating look which you know, which I guess is frightening and that it’s used I guess as a weapon to hurt the other person.
JANINE COHEN (to Andrew Agg): Why do you do that?
ANDREW AGG: Power.
ROXANNE AGG: Every time he blasted me I sort of thought, "Well I don’t deserve this treatment." I was brought up believing that you don’t stay with someone who treats you like this. I thought, "No, but, he can get better. He wants to get better. He doesn’t want to treat me like this."
JANINE COHEN: But things didn’t get better for Roxanne. Over the next couple of years the verbal abuse and intimidation became almost a daily occurrence.
Roxanne is part of a grim statistic: at least one in five Australian women become victims of family violence.
Roxanne, depressed and lonely, continually made plans to leave, but never did. Then she fell pregnant with her second daughter Sienna.
ROXANNE AGG: The number of times I intended to leave with Mikayla, probably three or four times as a baby. Since my youngest daughter’s been born, Sienna, I would say there’s probably been 10 or so times. It’s got more frequent that I felt the need to leave because I’ve got two children I need to protect.
ANDREW AGG (to Mikayla, eldest daughter): So did you have fun? Did you have fun?
MIKAYLA (to Andrew, father): Yeah.
ANDREW AGG (to Mikayla): Yeah? Had another baby-cino?
MIKAYLA (to Andrew): Yeah ...
JANINE COHEN: Despite all this Andrew didn’t think he had a problem – he had never hit his wife and he adored his children. But then seven months ago there was a problem in the bank where he has worked for the past 23 years.
ANDREW AGG: I was probably physically intimidating to other staff members and aggressive, and I was put on amber.
JANINE COHEN (to Andrew Agg): Given a warning at work?
ANDREW AGG: Given a warning.
ROXANNE AGG: He’ll just go butchers at them, he will swear at someone, he’ll tell them to piss off or he'll call them a bitch or, It’s usually a female that he’ll attack.
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL (at men’s group): They say, "I’ve been like this all my life David. My father’s been like this, my brother’s like this. There’s nothing we can do about it. I’ve got a short fuse ...”
JANINE COHEN: Andrew Agg joined a local men’s group in Pakenham, on the urban outskirts of Melbourne. It’s one of about 50 voluntary men’s behaviour change programs in Australia. They use narrative therapy, where men learn to own up and talk about their violence and its impact on their families.
ANDREW AGG (at men's group): What I do is like, it’s in my mind like and I'm not actually saying, "Oh, look, I’ve got an issue with this." Instead I’m thinking of all these issues and then that’s when you hit build up and …”
JANINE COHEN: When "Four Corners" first met Andrew Agg in September last year he was half way through a 28-week course.
ANDREW AGG: Work was the catalyst and in many ways I’m glad that happened because it was the catalyst for me to take action to really save my marriage.
(at men's group): We're working together with the lines of communication and ...
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL: He’s now working and struggling; it hasn’t been an easy journey for him to make those changes at home. He’s made the changes very good at work and quickly at work but he still has difficulty at home.
JANINE COHEN (to Andrew Agg): What's driving your bad behaviour?
ANDREW AGG: It’s just frustration and not being able to communicate effectively in other ways, just rationally, what’s a minor issue becomes all conquering and the actual issue at hand is forgotten within the fight, within the argument.
JANINE COHEN: David Nugent says he gives men the tools to deal with their anger and their violence. He does a lot of role-playing with his co-facilitator.
(Excerpt from role play at men's group):
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL: All about me?
WOMAN: Yeah.
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL (slams hand on table): What do you mean it’s all about me?
WOMAN (raised voice): Don’t look at me like that!
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL (shouting): F******g bullshit it’s all about me. You say that all the time in this shit (ripping newspaper and slamming fist on table, knocking things over).
WOMAN: Well it is about you!
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL: What is it this time about me? What have I done this time? F**k you! What is it?
WOMAN: It's ...
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL: You come home with your f*****g work problems ...
EEE
JANINE COHEN: David Nugent was once an angry and controlling man himself before he sought the help of a men’s behaviour change group. Four years later he runs his own group called HeavyMETAL.
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL: I can relate to these guys. I can feel their pain, their hurt when they walk through the door and their hesitation. And being able to relate to that, encourage that, we can get through this if they’re prepared to take responsibility.
(On screen text: "September 2007")
ANDREW AGG (to Mikayla, at her birthday): Which one do you want to open next? This one?
MIKAYLA (to Andrew): This one ...
JANINE COHEN: Roxanne says things are much better at home since Andrew started the course but there is still a long way to go. There are only occasional outbursts now.
ROXANNE AGG: He’s still very much in the process but I can bear it, I can cope with it now.
JANINE COHEN: Because you can see -
ROXANNE AGG: I can see improvement and I can see where he’s going to get to. I can see his potential.
ANDREW AGG: I think realistically I’m half way. There’s work to do. It’s behaviour like I said that's gone on for many years.
(On screen text: "Adam's Story")
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL (at men's group): In the work we do here, all of that comes under violent behaviour and abuse.
(On screen text: "September 2007")
JANINE COHEN: Adam Higgins is also in the HeavyMETAL men’s group.
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL (at men's group): What does explosion mean for you Adam?
ADAM HIGGINS: (at men's group): Well, violent behaviour, abusive behaviour.
JANINE COHEN: Unlike Andrew Agg, Adam has a long history of physical violence against his partners, his work colleagues, even strangers.
ADAM HIGGINS: I’ve had arguments and punch-ups on the cricket field, in the street, at work, especially in the pubs. And I also used to, I just snapped, things happen and I lose control and that’s been the story of my life.
JANINE COHEN: But no one has copped it more than his partner of nine years, Krissy.
ADAM HIGGINS: I’m very ashamed of what I have done. You know I’ve chocked her, she nearly passed out. I’ve hit her, thrown things at her, actually kicked her, punched her.
ADAM HIGGINS (to Krissy Higgins): Are you going to do one of those super-dooper cappuccinos for me?
(On screen text: "September 2007")
JANINE COHEN: Krissy and Adam’s relationship was not physically violent for some years. As is the pattern with many cases of family violence, it started with Krissy becoming socially isolated.
KRISSY HIGGINS: It sort of slowly developed like an emotional control developed like all of a sudden he didn’t want me to visit my friends, he didn’t want me to have friends over, just little bit by little bit it crept in without you sort of really noticing what was going on.
ADAM HIGGINS: Because of my violence, my abusive behaviour, her friends stopped coming around, her family stopped coming around, Krissy went into her shell.
KRISSY HIGGINS: Then as time went on the shoving became too, well you know, he would hit or pick something up and physically throw it at me.
JANINE COHEN (to Krissy Higgins) And what sort of things would he throw at you?
KRISSY HIGGINS: Oh whatever was available - a chair, a picture.
KAILA, DAUGHTER (at table with Krissy and children): Did you dance like the monkeys Bailey?
KRISSY HIGGINS (to KAILA): He danced ...
JANINE COHEN: On one occasion Krissy was knocked unconscious by a flying object. But it was her five children she was most concerned about. Ellie, 17, and Kaila, 14, are from Krissy’s first marriage.
KRISSY HIGGINS: It came to a point where I have to stop and go, "What was that doing to the children?" And the answer was it was hurting them. They were confused, they were torn between their feelings for Adam and I, they didn’t feel safe, they didn’t laugh anymore. They were, you know, reclusing back to their bedrooms, they weren’t going out.
ADAM HIGGINS: I didn’t really take any notice because, you know, back in the old days it was a bad Adam and a lot of it, I was very selfish, very selfish person, I always have been.
ELLIE, DAUGHTER (at table with Krissy and children): Do you want to go for a walk in the forest?
JANINE COHEN: In any year it’s estimated that more than 180,000 Australian children live with a parent who is a victim of domestic violence. Studies show children exposed to this violence can have behavioural problems or learning difficulties or become bullies themselves.
Krissy Higgins constantly thought about running away with her children.
KRISSY HIGGINS: I started looking on the Internet to see how I could actually change all our, change all our identities so that he would never be able to find us.
JANINE COHEN (to Adam Higgins): Why do you think she didn’t leave?
ADAM HIGGINS: I’m not too sure to be honest. Maybe she thought that I would track her down.
JANINE COHEN (to Adam Higgins): Would you have?
ADAM HIGGINS: Well obviously, because of the children, play a big part and I have to see my children. I love my children. I love Krissy. I got to admit she’s my backbone, even though there was violence and things like that.
JANINE COHEN: Adam tried to get help. He saw counsellors, stopped drinking, was diagnosed with bipolar disorder and went on medication - but still the violence continued.
ADAM HIGGINS (on the phone): ... We put in a fire sprinkler system with a set of controls ...
JANINE COHEN: But like many violent men, he managed well outside the house, still running a large and successful fire protection company with his wife.
It was Krissy who was finding it hard to cope.
KRISSY HIGGINS: I went from being a very strong, independent, assertive person to being someone that was scared of their own shadow, afraid to make decisions because everything I had done was wrong.
JANINE COHEN: Eighteen months ago Adam Higgins flew into a violent rage. What upset him was a chip packet the kids had left on the couch.
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL: The chip packet was just the last straw, so it’s like a pressure cooker all day has been brewing and getting hotter and hotter and hotter, and that last thing there was that chip packet and then, bang, full on explosion.
ADAM HIGGINS: Phew, well, I got to admit I probably could have killed her that day.
KRISSY HIGGINS: Oh he was trying to choke me.
JANINE COHEN (to Krissy Higgins): Strangle you?
KRISSY HIGGINS: Oh yeah, oh yeah it was pretty violent.
JANINE COHEN (to Krissy Higgins): Could you breathe?
KRISSY HIGGINS: No, now, I was pretty terrified.
ADAM HIGGINS: Actually Ellie came in and heard it all and she grabbed me to pull me off Krissy.
KRISSY HIGGINS: I knew, "You can’t do this to me, you can’t throw things at me, you can’t push me, you can’t hit me, you can’t drive the car off the road and threaten to kill me anymore."
ADAM HIGGINS (at men's group): I was being quite aggressive and violent at work and then bringing it home to the family ...
JANINE COHEN: Shortly after this latest incident, Adam Higgins started attending the HeavyMETAL men’s group.
JANINE COHEN (to Adam Higgins): How’s your life changed?
ADAM HIGGINS: Oh it’s great to be honest. Look I haven’t, I still need help with the group therapy and I do like it and every time I go I find something different in the way I can express myself and use tools to prevent me being angry and explosive.
KRISSY HIGGINS: I’m more comfortable, I feel safe now, I don’t have thoughts of really running away anymore and hiding the kids and taking off overseas. I still don’t have a passport (laughs) so it’s a huge improvement, huge.
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL (at men's group): What we talk about is a cycle, a cycle of violence ...
JANINE COHEN: David Nugent often talks to Krissy Higgins to find out how Adam is behaving at home.
KRISSY HIGGINS: If there’s been an incident David will put them in what I understand to be a hot seat and pull it apart and make them accountable for their action, you know. What was behind it? And he really pushes them hard.
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL: Men are very good at selling, "Everything’s great mate, everything since I joined this group, oh life’s just been wonderful." I’ve heard that so many times and I often sit there and go, "I wonder what really is happening," and the only way to find out is by keeping in touch with partners.
JANINE COHEN (to Adam Higgins): If you hadn’t confronted your demons, where would you be now?
ADAM HIGGINS: Oh look, I got to admit, probably eventually I could have been in jail.
JANINE COHEN (to Adam Higgins): What for?
ADAM HIGGINS: Assault, domestic violence.
JANINE COHEN (to Adam Higgins): Killing your wife?
ADAM HIGGINS: Maybe. Maybe. If it's not my wife it may be someone out in the street. It could have been, it could have been anyone. But a lot of the physical violence was within the household so yeah, could have been Krissy.
(On screen text: "Alex's Story")
JANINE COHEN: Alex Kharnam has had a hard time learning to empathise with women.
ALEX KHARNAM (at men's meeting, to woman): On the topic of sort of personal responsibility, accountability and so forth, did you go through a phase where you were actually carrying around guilt for actually not, for actually allowing it to be done to you?
JANINE COHEN: Alex has been coming to MonashLink’s Men’s Responsibility Group in Melbourne for the past 50 weeks – ever since his wife left him.
ALEX KHARNAM: Violence is not what you do, it’s actually what you are. The fact that you are also a nice guy and you pat puppies and you do volunteer work and stuff, that’s what you do. But someone who is willing to use violence to get their own way on people that they love and have sworn to protect is what you are, and the only way you can change that is with help.
JANINE COHEN: Alex Kharnam was emotionally cruel and violent to his partner for several years. He believes he’s changing and hopes one day to be reunited with his wife. But first there’s a lot of trust to win back.
JANINE COHEN (to Alex Kharnam): If Margaret hadn’t have left you and you hadn’t have attended the men’s group, was there a chance that she was in real danger of you actually killing her?
ALEX KHARNAM: I don’t blame her for thinking so and I think she does. Would it have been an accident if it had happened? Yes well. I have to say it’s possible because things were escalating. That’s the horrible reality.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy Kharnam): Did you ever fear for your life?
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: I was terrified, yes.
JANINE COHEN: Alex Kharnam, a former blacksmith, is both daunting both physically and intellectually. He is 186 centimetres tall and weighs more than 120 kilos.
It was his intellect that attracted Margaret to him.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: He was very interested in an intellectual relationship and did not apply pressure for anything beyond that. He was an interesting and engaging person to talk to for hours and just be very comfortable with.
ALEX KHARNAM: I enjoyed the way that for the first several years I really enjoyed needing to be my absolute level best in order to feel that I was even on par. And you know that’s the sort of relationship I’d always wanted. What’s not to like? (laughs)
JANINE COHEN: The couple dated for two years before getting married in 2004. After moving into this house things began to change.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: As time went on it could become very small, trivial things – um, leaving the light on in the bathroom.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy Kharnam): And would happen?
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: All hell would descend.
ALEX KHARNAM: You sort of go to hell in fractions of an inch. It’s, that's the thing, it doesn’t start as, you know, violence. It starts as: we’re so in love and she’s so met my needs up to now, how can she possibly not want to know that she’s causing me a problem now? So I’ll tell her again, and louder, and more often.
JANINE COHEN: A year after getting married, Margaret became pregnant with their first child, Miles.
ALEX KHARNAM: She was eight and half months pregnant and I hit her with the winch handle on the boat.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: I think that one thing that could be a factor is a sense that the woman’s attention is starting to turn away from them towards the child.
JANINE COHEN: Forty per cent of women who are victims of family violence report being assaulted while they’re pregnant.
Another time, Alex gave Margaret a black eye to wear to her father’s funeral.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy Kharnam): Most people would just find it absolutely hard to fathom how anyone could hit or beat someone at the time when they’ve lost their father and they’re about to go to a funeral. I mean that's just ...
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: I think it’s, you reach, it's a point where so many considerations have already been set aside that that kind of thing doesn’t really make a difference.
JANINE COHEN (to Alex Kharnam): You had a fight around the time her father died and she went to the funeral of her father with a black eye.
ALEX KHARNAM: I, honestly I don’t deny it I just, that’s honestly not one that I - wow, um …
JANINE COHEN (to Alex Kharnam): Thinking about that now …
ALEX KHARNAM: Yeah I still can’t place it, my memory of, you know, you can own all of it, you can, you can basically take responsibility for all of it, but in honesty my memory of when her father died was that I was supportive and there and caring and ...
JANINE COHEN (to Alex Kharnam): Maybe that’s what you wanted to be?
ALEX KHARNAM: … held her hand through it. I know that it’s what was happening for some it but I honestly, I don’t have that moment. I have other moments of horror and things, but I don’t have that one.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: He has, or always had this understanding of the world, that you survive and that his survival and wellbeing are dependent on his actually controlling his environment and manipulating people around him.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM (to Miles, feeding him): You going to have some more? ...
JANINE COHEN: It was concern for their baby son Miles that finally gave Margaret the courage to leave.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: I very much felt that I was not going to survive as any kind of a parent in the relationship, and I was losing my faith in my ability to take care of Miles at all.
JANINE COHEN (to Alex Kharnam): Was or is your young son at any risk from you?
ALEX KHARNAM: I would like to say no, but the simple answer is that it’s probably yes. Was he in anyway actually, directly impacted by me doing that? No, but that’s only a "yet" sort of statement. The reality is that it might have happened in time; it probably even would’ve happened in time.
JANINE COHEN: Alex Kharnam knew he had to get help. In mid-2006 he started at this men’s group.
ALEX KHARNAM (at men's group): The strongest thing that this group teaches in that is basically that you're here to work on you.
HELEN WIRTZ, FACILITATOR, MONASHLINK’S MENS GROUP: When a man starts a group and when we talk with their partner we always warn them to say, "Don’t think that this is going to be a magic pill. Don’t stay because he’s going to the group because it is not, we don’t want to give you that false sense of security because it may make no difference whatsoever to his behaviour."
JANINE COHEN: Like Alex, most of the men here have never been before the criminal justice system. This is not a court or prison mandated program. Most of the men volunteered to come because they’re in a personal crisis.
SAM KATAKOUZINOS (at men's group): What I did was, back in January, was just a bit too far, very, very far with the violent behaviour and, you know, I couldn't let that one go again.
RON SCHWEITZER, FACILITATOR, MONASHLINK’S MEN’S GROUP (at men's group): A lot of guys talk about using the shame and guilt to move forward from rather than using it to cover up and, so that sounds like what you’re able to do. You’re able to have the shame and guilt but rather than sort of try and pretend it wasn’t there or disappear ...
SAM KATAKOUZINOS (at men's group): Well I started with a lot of, "It's her fault." You know. "If she didn't do that" ...
RON SCHWEITZER, FACILITATOR, MONASHLINK’S MEN’S GROUP (at men's group): So the blaming practices.
SAM KATAKOUZINOS (at men's group): I did that and that was a lot of protecting myself...”
HELEN WIRTZ, FACILITATOR, MONASHLINK’S MENS GROUP: When he first came along he, you know, wasn’t sure how it would at all be helpful to him. But gradually listening to the other guys and taking part in the discussion, he started to see that there are other options for him in terms of how he could be as a man.
ALEX KHARNAM: It takes away the tools you’ve used to be the person you were, which is excuses and blaming and shifting and wriggling out of it and pretending that it’s not actually all that bad. It’s a really long road and there is nothing comfortable about most of it, but it is totally worthwhile because what you win in the end is yourself.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy Kharnam): Now what changes have you noticed in Alex?
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: He hasn’t been physically violent since I left.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy Kharnam): Is that to do with the group or is that the fact you left?
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: I think that initially it was probably the fact that I left. I think the group has actually managed to turn that into something that could be sustained.
JANINE COHEN (to Alex Kharnam): How do you hold yourself back? How do you restrain yourself?
ALEX KHARNAM: You don’t, you don’t, you change who you are.
JANINE COHEN (to Alex Kharnam): And have you really changed?
ALEX KHARNAM: Yeah.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy Kharnam): And what about your faith in Alex now? I mean, will he ever redeem himself?
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: That’s a really difficult question. (Long pause) It’s got to be evidence-based.
ALEX KHARNAM (at men's group): You know, if this was different then there would be no need for me to be violent, and so forth ...
JANINE COHEN: How much Alex Kharnam changes remains to be seen. The effectiveness of men’s groups like these is debatable because of the lack of long-term follow-up research of the men and their partners.
SUSIE COSTELLO, SOCIAL WORK, RMIT UNIVERSITY: There’s been a lot of scepticism about men’s behaviour change groups because there’s no evidence that they work in Australia, particularly under the conditions that we have them here where they are voluntary. I believe that State governments who provide the funding to men's behaviour change groups predominantly have a responsibility to monitor and evaluate their effectiveness.
ALEX KHARNAM: It’s that entire thing of feeling like you need to defend every inch of ground or else you’ll lose it. It actually means you lose it more.
SUSIE COSTELLO, SOCIAL WORK, RMIT UNIVERSITY: I’ve heard of some men’s behaviour change counsellors saying that they know they’re effective because the men open up and cry and say how disappointed they are in their behaviour. And then I’ll speak to the women and they'll say, "Well he might have said that in the group but he came home and he gave me hell after the group."
KATE O'CALLAGHAN: These men are very, very clever at what they do. So there’s no doubt in my mind that they can learn the jargon, they can walk the talk. They can make it seem like, "Yep, it’s okay, I’m changing, it’s all good." That’s where you need the check-in factor. You need somebody to be checking on that with the partner and making sure that it is actually the way that they’re telling it.
JANINE COHEN: Kate O’Callaghan knows all about violent men.
KATE O'CALLAGHAN (at MonashLink men's group): I think the way that I can best describe it is that from day to day I was just living one second to the next, just trying to think how to survive.
JANINE COHEN: Kate O’Callaghan could easily have been one of the 70 women killed in Australia each year by their partners.
For five years she lived with a 26-year-old engineer who sometimes held her prisoner in their house and often assaulted her.
KATE O'CALLAGHAN: He would pull door frames apart, he would smash windows, he would get the coffee table and throw it through the windows. There was one time (crying) where we had vertical blinds in the kitchen and he took a blowtorch to the vertical blinds and then he turned it on me.
JANINE COHEN: Kate O’Callaghan was constantly going to hospital with injuries including a broken nose, broken ribs and a punctured lung. And like many victims of family violence, she would check out of hospital and return home to her tormentor.
SERGEANT PETER BENJAMIN, VICTORIA POLICE, VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN TEAM: It is very hard unless you really understand the dynamics of family violence to realise that women want the violence to stop, not necessarily the relationship. And women that are in violent relationships can still, you know, some part of them can still love their violent partner.
JANINE COHEN: Kate eventually did leave and after a two-year police investigation her ex-partner was charged and then convicted of eight criminal offences including false imprisonment and intentionally causing serious injury. He was facing a possible 20 years in jail but received just 18 months and with good behaviour was out in four months.
KATE O'CALLAGHAN: I was devastated. It was like the third time I felt like I’d just been assaulted all over again. To me I was just thinking, "Is that how little you think of my life?"
KATE O'CALLAGHAN (at MonashLink men's group): If I hear those footsteps my heart just starts pounding. I wake up, once again I have a panic attack ...
JANINE COHEN: Despite her ordeal, Kate O’Callaghan believes jail is not always the solution. Kate, who in her spare time works as an advocate for victims of family violence, believes men who want to change should have support.
KATE O'CALLAGHAN: We need support in our community for perpetrators and their families as well. What do we do? We just want the world to be a better place, and if we can change them, great. I guess we have to try.
JANINE COHEN (to Sergeant Peter Benjamin): What’s your view of things like community-based, voluntary men’s behaviour change programs? Are they part of the problem solving?
SERGEANT PETER BENJAMIN, VICTORIA POLICE, VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN TEAM: Oh absolutely. I mean, I don’t know if that will help all men, but it’s a place where they can go to learn about what, how they can change their behaviour, how they can learn strategies and techniques when they’re getting to that crazy point where they're going to do something stupid.
ANDREW AGG (to baby): You gave daddy a cuddle didn't you? A big smile, you gave big daddy cuddle ...
JANINE COHEN: Despite the lack of long-term studies on men’s behaviour change groups, the anecdotal feedback is positive. Some men do change and their partners often report feeling safer in the house.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM (to Miles, son): Shoes next ...
And for some women, they feel safe enough to leave the relationship without fear of retribution.
HELEN WIRTZ, FACILITATOR, MONASHLINK’S MENS GROUP: What we’ve found is that, from talking with the women, about a third of guys make lasting changes, about a third - and lasting sort of significant changes - about a third make little changes, and about a third go back to how they were behaving before.
DAVID NUGENT , FACILITATOR, HEAVYMETAL: If you run with these tools and strategies and you, and it comes sincerely from your heart, yes, you can do it. But if you’re there just wanting that elephant stamp to say, "Hey, get off my back, I’ve done this program," you won’t change.
JANINE COHEN: Almost three months after first talking to Andrew Agg and his family, "Four Corners" returned to see how they were going. Things at home had dramatically improved.
ANDREW AGG (to daughter as she goes down slide): Yay! Well done!
ROXANNE AGG (to daughter): And again! ...
JANINE COHEN (to Roxanne Agg): So how’s Andrew being in the men’s group change your life?
ROXANNE AGG: Huge. He’s a lot happier, he’s a lot more settled. He’s a lot more satisfied with life. He’s more involved with the children. He’s more patient with me. And he’s listening to me for the first time in about five years, which is fantastic.
ANDREW AGG: I think the main change is showing more empathy towards Roxanne and being in touch with what she wants and what she feels and not just shrugging it off.
ANDREW AGG (to baby, playing on swing set): Daddy's showing you how to do it, daddy's showing you. Put your legs straight down ...
ROXANNE AGG: It’s the biggest thing he could have done for his family, me, himself, the children. I think what he’s done something that any of us could do and learn a lot from but I could never be more proud of him.
JANINE COHEN: Back at Alex Kharnam’s home things are also on the improve since "Four Corners" first met him almost three months ago.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM (to Miles, in kitchen watching his dad cook): Remember, hot.
ALEX KHARNAM (in kitchen): Miles' mushrooms ...
JANINE COHEN: Margaret believes life has become safer for her and Miles. They now stay three nights a week in the spare room at Alex’s house so he can have access to his son.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: I think Alex is more relaxed, less, "prescriptive" might be the best word, less looking for immediate defined outcomes that he’s using as benchmarks for himself. He went out and found the group on his own and stuck with it, even through a lot of frustration and difficulty and I’m very proud of him for doing that.
ALEX KHARNAM (to Margaret in kitchen): He asked for mushrooms.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM (holding Miles): Oh, okay.
ALEX KHARNAM: (to Margaret): He's the one that asked for them.
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: (to Alex): Did he pick them?
ALEX KHARNAM (to Margaret): Every last one.
ALEX KHARNAM: It’s not like this is who I always was and I’ve needed to change. It’s more a case of, this is who I became and I’ve managed to find my way back from it, or onwards from it. But yeah, I don’t see this coming back into my life again.
JANINE COHEN (to Alex Kharnam): So the program’s given you a second chance do you think?
ALEX KHARNAM: Yeah, absolutely. But the program’s given it to me. I’ve also given it to myself. That’s the other thing. You actually, you know, it’s more than just turning up. It’s more than just sort of, you know, they don’t fix you, they basically take away the excuses you have not to fix yourself, if you want to think about it that way.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy-Kharnam): Will you ever trust Alex again?
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: It would be hard, it is hard. In certain things, yes, but you, it’s very hard to stop being defensive, to stop being wary.
JANINE COHEN: Alex still hopes that he and Margaret will get back together. Margaret is cautious.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy Kharnam): What do you think your future is with Alex, if anything?
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: Oh, good parents to Miles, good friends. That’s as far ahead as I can look forward at this stage.
JANINE COHEN (to Margaret Clancy Kharnam): Could it one day change?
MARGARET CLANCY KHARNAM: I don’t know.
JANINE COHEN: When "Four Corners" returned to see how Adam Higgins was progressing, the news was not so good. After doing so well for most of last year, his life has taken a sad and violent turn. Adam stopped attending the men’s group and a few weeks later he exploded at home - hurling abuse at the kids and destroying their things.
KRISSY HIGGINS: You get to a point where you just look at your children, you go, "No, no more." You know, I don’t want to see them cry tears because he’s upset them again or he’s, you know, done something to me that's hurts them as well.
JANINE COHEN (to Ellie): Do you think it’s made you a bit wary around your step-dad?
ELLIE: Yes. I really don’t speak to him (crying).
JANINE COHEN (to Kaila): What’s the impact do you think on you of living with a step-dad who’s been a bit aggressive and violent?
KAILA: There’s a lot of impact on it. Like you don’t know like if he’ll do it again kind of thing. You don’t know if you should do that because in case it might, he might erupt on something that you’ve done, so you kind of tiptoe around him.
JANINE COHEN (to Kaila): How do you feel about him now Kaila?
KAILA: Well I’m a little bit scared of him but he’s my brother’s dad so I treat him with respect.
JANINE COHEN (to Kaila): Do you love him?
(Long pause)
ELLIE (crying): Yes she does.
JANINE COHEN (to Ellie): She loves him. Do you love him Ellie?
ELLIE: To a point.
JANINE COHEN (to Ellie): Would you ever trust him again Ellie?
ELLIE: Er, um, I don’t know.
JANINE COHEN (to Ellie): It’s a big question isn’t it?
ELLIE: I don’t ever think I will respect him the same way.
KRISSY HIGGINS: She’s very devastated. She had trusted Adam again. It came as a real blow. As you saw, the impact on her has been enormous. It’s absolutely shattered her world.
JANINE COHEN (to Adam Higgins): How does it make you feel that they’re scared of you?
ADAM HIGGINS: Oh look, I had a tear in my eye. You know, it’s something that I don’t like and it really does affect me greatly because I do love them a lot and I know that I get that in return but there is also that reserved feelings by them.
JANINE COHEN (to Adam Higgins): Sense of shame?
ADAM HIGGINS: Oh yeah, yeah, oh definitely. Um, I got to be honest, I don’t know why that happens.
JANINE COHEN: Adam Higgins no longer lives with his wife and five children.
KRISSY HIGGINS: As apologetic as he was about the whole thing and everything else, it’s just one too many times. It was, we have come so far with everything that it shouldn’t have happened and he’s learned so many skills, we, we’ve learned skills to help deal with our issues and be supportive of him, but we can't support violence and we won’t support violence.
JANINE COHEN: Not all controlling or violent men can change, but for those willing to try, there’s hope. Relationships may not always recover, but perhaps life can become safer for families.
(On screen text: "Life for Andrew and Roxanne Agg continues to improve.
"Alex Kharnam is hoping that Margaret and Miles will move back in full time. Margaret is still unsure.
"Adam Higgins now lives in Darwin and is estranged from his family.")