For thirteen years Sarah and Steve have been in love. They have raised Sarah’s four children together ....run several businesses together....for all intents in purposes they are a couple.

Except Sarah and Steve are no ordinary couple - they are biological father and daughter.

Last week Steve was sentenced to (   ) for incest but they say till the day they die they will remain together. 

Tonight, they tell their extraordinary story to Sarah Hall

17:56 SARAH IS EVERYTHING TO ME. AND I WISH EVERYONE IN THE WORLD COULD FEEL THIS AMOUNT OF LOVE.

17:26 WE LOVE EACH OTHER DESPERATELY. WE ARE BEST FRIENDS, SOUL MATES, BUSINESS PARTNERS. IT’S LOVE ACTUALLY.

Up: Music

This is the favourite song of probably New Zealand’s most unusual couple.

They realise most New Zealanders will find their relationship morally repugnant but they hope by telling their story, there will be at least, some understanding about how it happened.

45:10 I WOULDN’T WANT ANYBODY TO BE UNDERSTANDING OF THE BREACH OF LAW OF THIS LAND. WHAT I WOULD LIKE IS FOR THE NZ PUBLIC TO SEE WHAT WE REPRESENT AND THAT’S A STRONG FAMILY UNIT UPON WHICH THIS COUNTRY WAS BUILT.

Sarah was adopted out a birth and says her adoptive parents are her only Mum and Dad.

**1:47 THEY ARE THE PEOOPLE WHO BROUGHT ME UP FROM BIRTH DID ALL THE THINGS THAT PARENTS DO YOU KNOW.

 SO YOU DON’T CONSIDER YOUR BIRTH MOTHER OR FATHER TO BE YOUR PARENTS?  NO I NEVER HAVE THAT OPTION WAS GIVEN AWAY WHEN I WAS BORN AND ADOPTED OUT TO ANOTHER FAMILY.

After Sarah had four children of her own she made contact with her birth mother because she wanted to know her genetic history. Years later she was told about the man who could be her biological father.

2:58 EVENTUALLY SHE GAVE ME A NAME I ONLY HAD HER WORD TO GO ON WHO THIS PERSON COULD BE. MY BIRTH FATHER’S NAME WAS NOT ON MY ADOPTION CERTIFICATE..I WENT ON A MISSION TO TRY TO FIND THE OTHER SIDE OF ME.

AND YOU WROTE A LETTER TO THIS PERSON.... I DID YES. WHO WAS YOU STEVEN. WHEN YOU HEARD YOU HAD A DAUGHTER YOU WERE SHOCKED?

YES, IT WAS  A SHOCK THAT WAS THE WORD. ///11:30 IF I HAD THOGUHT A CHILD OF MINE EXISTED IN THE WORLD I WOULD HAVE PURSUED IT TO THE END OF MY DAYS

Steve, who had had a short relationship with Sarah’s mother as a 19 year old phoned Sarah and immediately they clicked.

5:20 IT WAS VERY NATURAL, WE HAD A CONVERSATION THAT LASTED A COUPLE OF HOURS...

5”44 YOU GOT ON FROM THE VERY MOMENTR..IT TOOK A WHILE 30 SECONDS. SARAH WAS THAT WAS IT WAS LIKE FOR YOU...YEAH IT WAS PRETTY MUCH INSTANT FRIENDS THE FIRST TIME WE SPOKE.

Five weeks later 29 year old Sarah was on a plane to England to meet him.

6:57 HEATHROW TUNNEL AND YOU JUST SEE THIS APPARITION FROM THE OTHER SIDE OF THE WORLD//GOSH I HAD ALREADY FALLEN IN LOVE WITH HER ON THE PHONE, EVERYTHING ABOUT HER.

7:29 AND YOU DID AT THE TIME DIDN’T YOU....YOU FELL IN LOVE.

YES THAT’S A WAY OF SAYING IT. I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT HER. WAS IT LIKE THAT FOR YOU SARAH? YEAH DEFIENNTLY.

Sarah and Steve are obviously extremely concerned about how they will be received by the NZ public. They asked us to stress they were never a hundred per cent sure they were actually biologically related despite evidence produced in court that Steve knew his girlfriend was pregnant.

(28:18 WHY AT THE TIME DID YOU NTO GET A DNA TEST TO SEE IF YOU WERE FATHER AND DAUGHTER?  HONESTLY IT WAS IMMATERIAL. WE DEVELPED AN AMAZING RELATIONSHIP. IT WASN’T BASED ON A FATHER DAUGTHER THING

(STEVE)       

SO HOW ON EARTH DID THIS RELATIONSHIP HAPPEN?

39:06 YOU MEET SOMEONE IN YOUR LIFE WHO YOU HAVE TOTAL RESPECT FOR, ADORATION, FONDESS FRIENTSHIP, THAT’S LOVE AND WE FELL INTO IT. BUT WHY DIDN’T YOU STOP TO THINK YOU COULD HAVE A FRIENDSHIP WITHOUT BEING A COUPLE? WELL I THINK A CLOSE RELATIONSHIP IS BEING A COUPLE. SO YOU THINK YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS NORMAL? NO

Sarah says she never looking for a replacement father ….from the outset this was love.

(SARAH)

8:48 I WASN’T LOOKING FOR A FATHER, I HAD A WONDERFUL FATHER WHO WILL ALWAYS BE MY FATHER. //9:30 SO WE NEVER DEVELOPED OR FELT THAT RELATIONSHIP, IT NEVER CAME ABOUT. WE BECAME REALLY GOOD FRIENDS AND VERY QUICKLY BECAME SOUL MATES WE LOVED EACH OTHER A LOT FROM VERY EARLY ON BUT THAT WAS THE ONLY RELATIONSHIP WE EVER DEVELOPED.

I’M SORRY SARAH BUT DIDN’T IT EVER CROSS YOUR MIND THAT HE IS IN ACTUAL FACT YOUR FATHER....??

48:00 APPROX

IT’S NEVER CROSSED MY MIND  THE FACT IS IT’S THE FEELING I HAVE NEVER HAD THAT FEELING. THAT FEELING IS RESERVED FOR MY DAD WHO BROUGHT ME UP AND TOOK ME FISHING AND BOUNCED ME ON HIS KNEE AND TAUGHT ME RIGHT FRMO WRONG.

Sarah and Steve’s relationship is unusual but more common than you may think. There have been numerous recorded cases of brothers and sisters adopted out at birth, who meet, fall in love only later to discover they’re related.

For societies it is tricky both legally and morally. Some countries like France have legalised these relationships but here in New Zealand they remain against the law.

Because of those laws, Sarah and Steve quietly set up home in this leafy Auckland suburb. They didn’t flaunt their relationship but didn’t hide it either. They suspect hundreds of people knew about them.  My own cousin told me of their existence at least six years ago but as I was a journalist wouldn’t tell me their names saying they were living peacefully and were not hurting anyone

16:00 WE HAVEN’T HAD ANY UGLY SITUATIONS BECAUSE OF OUR LIFE. WE HAVEN’T HAD TO TAKE ANY PRECAUTIONS ABOUT THE WAY WE BEHAVE SO I DON’T HONESTLY SAY WE’VE HAD A HART TIME.

16:45 APART FROM A FEW PEOPLE WHO WERE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE FOR THE SITUATION WITH THE LAW EVERYONE ELSE HAS SUPPORTED US,

ENCOURAGED US THEY KNOW IT’S ABOUT A LOT OF LOVE THEY DON’T FEEL WE HAVE DONE ANYTHING WRONG. WE ARE JUST SARAH AND STEVE WE HAVE DONE A LOT FOR A LOT OF PEOPLE AND WE CARE AND LOVE A LOT OF PEOPLE AND WE ARE SURROUNDED BY THOSE PEOPLE.

But after eleven years of living together Sarah’s birth mother, who suspected the relationship, went to the police. 

22”20 THEY TURNED UP HEAVILY ARMED A DOZEN OF THEM (THEY WERE ARMED?) YES A DOZEN OF THEM AT SEVEN IN THE MORNING. (THAT MUST HAVE BEEN A SHOCK A DOZEN ARMED POLICE COMING THRU YOUR DOOR) IT WAS A SHOCK//I DIDN’T HAVE A CLUE WHY THEY WERE THER OT WAS THE LAST THING WE WERE EXPECTING ELEVEN YEARS DOWN THE TRACK.

By living openly Sarah and Steve had taken the biggest gamble of their life and lost. They were both charged with incest. Sarah’s four children from her first marriage were made to give police interviews – upsetting the family.  

25:00 THEY FEEL BITTER, THEY FEEL USED. THEY WERE PUT UNDER THAT PRESSURE AND NEVER WANTED TO TESTIFY AGAINST US. THEY LOVE US TO BITS// THEY FEEL THE POLICE HAVE TRIED TO TEAR APART A REALLY LOVING FAMILY....

25:35 THE POLICE WOULD SAY THEY WERE DOING THEIR JOBS. WHERE IS THE LINE OF DOING THEIR JOB, TO TEAR APART A GOOD FAMILY. DO YOU WANT TO LIVE IN A LAWLESS COUNTRY (STEVE)NO. BUT THAT LAW DOESN’T APPOLY TO US. (STEVE) THE POLICE DON’T WRITE THE LAW THEY ARE THEIR TO SUPPORT AND PROTECT THE LAW AND I DON’TR WANT TO LIVE IN A COUNTRY WHERE THE POLICE CAN’T ENFORCE THE LAW.

While Sarah and Steve disagree on the initial police involvement in their case they are united on their views on incest, and perhaps not in a way you’d expect. They believe no one in an incestuous relationship should be able to have a child. They also think in most cases incest is an abhorent crime but the law shouldn’t apply to them. 

31:18

It’S AN ABUSIVE VIOLENT CRIME AGAINST A CHILD IN MY VIEW. THE LAW SHOULD RELECT THAT THEN PEOPLE IN INCESTEOUS RELATIONSHIPS BORN OUT OF CONSENTING ADULT, MIDDLE AGED PEOPLE WOULDN’T BE AFFECTED.

32”05 WHY SHOULD WE HAVE TO CARRY THAT STIGMA. WE ARE WELL INTO OUR MATURE YEARS;. GROWN UP CHILDREN WHY SHOULD A VICTIMLESS CRIME OF LOVE IN OUR CIRCUMSTANCES WITH SOMEBODY BEING ADOPTED OUT HAVING MET AS STRANGERS WHY SHOULD WHY IS IT FAIR. IT’S NOT FAIR.

21:35 but again, PEOPLE WILL SAY YOU CAN WORD IT WHICH EVER WAY YOU WANT BUT IT’S STILL INCEST AND IT’S STILL WRONG. THAT WORD DOESN’T APPLIE TO US WE’VE BEEN PROSEUCTED AND PERCSUTED BY THE POLICE IN LOTS OF WAYS…DRAGGED THE FAMILY THROUGH HELL, FOR WHAT.

PTC: The trial lasted for eight days with every part of their relationship put under the microscope as the prosecution tried to prove their relationship was sexual.  More importantly  DNA evidence was produced proving a biological link…. In the end the jury found Steve guilty…. Sarah was found no guilty.

27:20 THE VERDICT IS ASTONISHING. HOW COULD IT BE..WHO AM I SUPPOSED TO BE HAVING AN INCESTOUS RELATIONSHIP WITH IF ONE OF US IS GUILTY AND THE OTHER ISN’T….MYSELF?

43:30 APPROX:

I DON’T THINK ANYONE COULD IMAGINE THE AMOUNT OF PEOPLE AFFECTED AND HURT WHAT WE’VE HAD TO GO THRU FOR A VICTIMLESS CRIME THAT ONE OF US HAS BEEN FOUND GUILTY AND THE OTHER NOT GUILTY IT’S LUDICRIOUS. AGAIN THOUGH THERE WILL BE PEOPLE WHO THINK YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS WRONG AND YOU DESERVED TO BE CHARGED. CHARGED IS ONE THING... PEOPLE WILL SAY YES THIS HAS BEEN TOUGH BUT YOUR RELATIONSHIP IS WRONG...

52:20 TO BE CLEAR, YOU ARE A COUPLE?  YES. AND THAT INCLUDES A SEXUAL RELATIONSHIP.  OBVIOUSLY WE HAVE BEEN THRU A TRIAL THERE’S BEEN A SPLIT VERDICT AND THE SUBJECT OF THAT OURT GUILTY AND WE CAN’T SAY ANYTHING MORE THAN THAT. WE CAN’T ANSSWER THAT FOR LEGAL REASONS

Sarah and Steve say despite the legal action against them they will not be parted. Theoretically the police could keep taking them to court over and over again…a prospect they find depressing.

42:10 WE ARE FIGHTERS...WE WILL FIGHT.

YOU WILL FIGHT TO STAY TOGETEHR? YES FOR THE SAKE OF WHAT WE HAVE GOT. OUR LIVES, THE PEOPLE IN OUR LIVESW THAT WANT US TO FIGHT...THEY WANT US TO FIGHT FOR OUR FAMILY, TO FIGHT FOR OUR LOVE BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT WE ARE.

It’s the day of sentencing for Steve… He is nervous that he could be either sent to prison or forced to live in a separate home. 

TAPE SEVEN 2:44 what’s the worsrt thing that could happen today….

(hug)

But it was the best possible outcome for Sarah and Steve. They judge ruled there was no imbalance of power in their relationship and the usual harm associated with incest was not present in this case.

Steve was sentenced to just 300 hours of community service…

25:33 quite pleased with the verdict?

Quite, pleased, estatic, I was shocked I think the court has taken a view here about the type of offending…  .35 Are you quite pleased with the verdict… Steve: Quite pleased…(ecstatic)…I was shocked but I think the courts have taken a view here about the type of relationship they perceive, and whilst the crime that’s been  reported  as committed in this day and age, there’s a more enlightened view.

Sarah:  What is whole experience done to your relationship?

00 26 02 12 Steve: It’s cemented it. S:  Strengthened the family ties. Steve: If that were possible, I’d say it was stronger. S:  We’ve had so many people standing behind us and supporting us, that’s given the strength.

SARAH:  So nothing is going to change?

00.26.15.01 Steve: Absolutely not.

SARAH:  You’re going to continue to live together. (Yep.)  Be a couple?   (Yep.) Steve: Until I draw my last breathe. SARAH:  Until the day you die? Yes.