10.00.00.00
Bystander:
The young guys were sitting there by the road. They weren't doing anything. They just came and shot at random. The guys were there, doing nothing.
Q: Who is this man?
A: His name is Benedito.
Q. Why did they do this?
A: I don't know, they were just by the road, then he got shot.
00.47
Mark Davis:
Just half an hour ago Benedito de Jesus was enjoying a quiet Sunday afternoon in Dili - chatting with friends and neighbours.
00.55
Benedito wasn't a leader or prominent figure but was well known as a supporter of independence - nothing special about that on these streets, and tragically his death is not that unique either.
01.07
In the past few months, there have been dozens of pro- independence civilians like him who've been gunned down or have mysteriously vanished. Hundreds have been beaten and tortured, thousands have fled.
01.20
Jakarta's astonishing announcement that they would at last consider independence for East Timor had sent hopes soaring here.
But today hope is being replaced with a chilling fear - that the change of heart in Jakarta has inspired little more than a change in tactics by the real powers in East Timor, the Indonesian military - that a proxy war of terror is being unleashed to end the dream of independence
01.48
Title: A Licence To Kill.
01.55
Bystander:
They were wearing red and white headbands. They had guns. They went to a meeting then came out and fired in the air.
02.03 Mark Davis:
Just before Benedito was killed, an armed pro-Indonesian gang went on a shooting rampage through this Dili suburb, and then retreated into a military base at the end of this street.
02.14: Minutes later a shot fired out and Benedito was dead - killed either by one of the Indonesian soldiers or one of the gang standing beside them.
02.24: To the people here, the link between the two groups has never been clearer than it is today.
02.31: As the political debate over East Timor's future unfolds, there is little doubt over which side of the fence ABRI is choosing to stand on.
02.42: When I move forward to film, a dozen soldiers take the firing position and no one here doubts their resolve. It would seem that 'reformasi' hasn't quite reached this corner of the republic.
Ali Alatas, Indonesian Foreign Minister:
02.56: Instead of saying Very good - in Indonesia there is a change of heart. They've crossed the rubicon and - no - we're still being criticised. People are still saying I don't believe you. You are bad. You're bad. You can never be good. You see what I have to tackle? I hope you understand sometimes how we feel.
Mark Davies:
03.23: This man is accused of being one of the gang involved in the shooting. It's claimed he was on a motorbike which stalled as his friends drove off. The crowd surrounds him as he tries to make his way to the ABRI post.
Bystander:
03.37: You can't kill him. The Indonesians will say we are killing each other. We have to be calm.
Mark Davis:
03.49: The gang involved is called the Mahidi, and they've been murdering and mutilating pro-independence supporters for months.
03.56: Mahidi's official relationship with the military or ABRI is meant to be as volunteer 'village guards'. According to ABRI, the village guards are just local deputies and are totally unarmed, except when accompanied by soldiers.
04.13 Bystanders:
He had a pistol and two grenades.
Mark Davis:
04.27: The accusation made against ABRI is not just that they turn a blind eye to the activities of their 'village guards" but that they actively support and assist them in acts of political terror and assassination - that they've turned the village guards into nothing less than pro-integration militias or paramilitaries.
Ali Alatas, Indonesian Foreign Minister:
04.47: You may believe me or not believe me. By this time I'm quite immune now to the disbelief of the west. Believe me, I don't care any more. But I can tell you most emphatically that that news is wrong. What is happening there is training village guards so that they can help the police at least to maintain peace in their respective villages - not to kill off people.
Mark Davis:
05.14: Rui da Costa is an investigator for a volunteer human rights group, Kontras, which has been established to try to stem the tide of killings. Despite enormous personal risk, he's investigated every death he's been able to get access to since November last year.
05.42: For Rui the days of merely accepting ABRI denials are coming to an end.
Bystander at group meeting:
05.47: It's best to do as our brother says and take this to General Wiranto.
Bystander:
05.55: We don't have to beat around the bush . The guns were given by Indonesia and they must be held responsible.
Mark Davis:
06.04: No one knows how many people have been killed or tortured by ABRI and the militias in recent months. But it's not the numbers that Rui concentrates on to make his case , it is the irrefutable nature of the evidence - photo's, names, dates and eye-witnesses.
Rui da Costa, Kontras human rights group:
06.20: In Turiscai, a young boy was arrested and had his stomach cut open. He was stabbed in the stomach. He was disembowelled. He was still alive. Then he was tortured. He was burnt here with cigarettes. This was broken because of the beating. And they tortured him here, they broke this, they knifed him here. Then they shot him dead. He would speak, he was active. They hated him, that's why they killed him.
Mark Davis:
07.04: None of these people were pro-independence leaders. Most of them were simply village supporters in some of the remotest parts of East Timor. Many of them not just killed but mutilated, presumably as a warning to others.
Rui da Costa, Kontras human rights group:
07.18: They cut off his leg.
Q: And this is the paramilitary?
A: Mahidi - paramilitary.
Rui da Costa, Kontras human rights group:
07.31: These people are being used as puppets to kill people. It is the Indonesian military which is the perpetrator. The Indonesian military is the mastermind.
Mark Davis:
07.46: However murky the situation appears in East Timor - the messages coming out of Jakarta are far less ambiguous. The Habibie government will decide East Timor's fate this year - after a ballot, but not a binding referendum, is held in August, faster than anyone could have imagined, including guerrilla leader Xanana Gusmao.
Xanana Gusmao, East Timor Resistance Leader:
08.07: What we've seen is that while Habibie says one thing to the world, ABRI starts arming people and tells lies. We denounce it but they continue to lie.
Mark Davis:
08.20: Across town, a group of pro-integrationists arrive in Jakarta to press their case.
Basilio Araujo, Pro-integration spokesman:
08.27: We represent the forum for unity, democracy and justice.
Q: Sounds very nice, but what does that mean?"
Mark Davis:
08.35: The group includes several militia leaders - the same militia leaders who are accused of creating the current terror in East Timor.
08.45: Eurico Guterres is the head of the Gardapaksi militia, formed in the early 90's. The village that he was charged with guarding was Dili.
Eurico Guterres, Gardapaksi militia Commander:
08.53: I was given guns not just to protect myself and other integrationists but to protect opponents of integration as well - the East Timorese generally.
Mark Davis:
09.10: The Gardapaksi formed the basis of the notorious ninja gangs that tortured and murdered suspected activists in Dili in the mid 90's - always wearing their trademark black hoods.
09.21: Like others who served Indonesian intelligence and the military for many years, he now fears a future without them.
Eurico Guterres, Gardapaksi militia Commander:
09.29: It's quite clear we'll be killed by Falintil (Fretilin) if East Timor becomes independent.
Mark Davis:
09.37: The groups spokesman, Basilio Araujo is unabashed in declaring that they've come to Jakarta to ask for both money and guns.
Basilio Araujo, Pro-integration spokesman:
09.46: I'm convinced that I think they'll help us.
Q: So you're convinced that there are at least sections of ABRI that are sympathetic to you and, and will continue to help?
A: That's it. I'm really convinced.
Mark Davis:
10.05: The bars & barbed wire aren't here to keep these people in. They're here to keep Eurico's Gardapaksi out.
10.13: These families are just some of the estimated 10,000 people who've fled the countryside in the wake of the militia groups.
10.22: Across East Timor people are taking refuge in churches or in the homes of wealthier protectors - like this crowded house in Dili. All of them are fleeing their so called 'village guards'.
Bystander:
10.36: They arrested some of our people. Some were killed, some mutilated. And they forced us to carry guns and join Mahidi.
Bystander:
10.49: If you refuse to serve at the military post, they'll simply kill you.
Mark Davis:
10.54: Adosinha, her husband Santiago and their 5 children have just fled their village after Santiago refused to join the pro-integration militia.
Adosinha Do Santos:
11.04: They came to our village and destroyed everything. They killed our chickens, took what they could carry and sold it. And they said that if we can't find your husband they would come back and beat me and my children to death.
Santiago Do Santos:
11.27: The soldiers came and arrested us. Some of us were beaten on the spot, others were taken to the military post and were beaten there. Some were beaten to death.
Mark Davis:
11.41: There's no doubt here about the relationship ABRI have with the militias - they are virtually one and the same.
Adosinha Do Santos:
11.49: If we fought back, the military would come. That's why everyone is so frightened. If it was just the militias we wouldn't be afraid. We escaped the military to come here.
Mark Davis:
12.01: The people here aren't victims of civil war, they're simply victims of state terror.
12.07: There are no camps like this one full of people fleeing the violence of independence supporters. Despite dire predictions the independence groups haven't started retaliating yet. - and it's not through lack of firepower.
12.30These are the guerrillas who have kept the hope of independence alive for 23 years.
12.35 Still known to many as Fretilin, the armed wing of the independence movement now refers to itself as Falintil.
12.43 There's probably only 500 guerrillas in the forests and mountains of East Timor but their support network is enormous.
12.51 They have thousands of people in reserve and tens of thousands of villagers support them with food and finances
12.59 Falintil guerrilla (on walky talky):
How many did you kill? Three deer, good man.
Mark Davis:
13.08 The Indonesian military are camped just a few kilometres away on the next mountain peak. The nearest militia group would be less than 2 days walk from here. But the Commander of this unit Falur Rate Laek is under orders to do nothing but watch and wait.
Falur Rate Laek, Falintil Commander:
13.26 Our commander in chief Xanana has ordered all of us here to stop all military activities. Demonstrations and protests by young people have stopped as well. That is why we're here.
Mark Davis:
13.50 Falur has been a guerrilla for 20 years. 20 years of being hunted. 20 years of struggling to attract new fighters to his unit. All he could offer was near certain death for an unlikely victory.
14.17 Today Falur's biggest problem is dealing with an influx of new recruits.
Falur Rate Laek, Falintil Commander:
14.26 They're new. I'm teaching them but I've got a terrible voice.
Mark Davis:
14.41 With the fall of Suharto, support for and expectations upon Falintil skyrocketed.
14.48 In the villages people began to talk openly about independence.
And the reprisals against the most outspoken of them began in July.
14.57 As the militias and soldiers began their crackdown, dozens of young people began joining Falintil in the jungle.
15.04 This 15 year old girl was one of them - she says she wants to kill the soldiers in her village, or as she calls them, the Javanese rapists.
Falur Rate Laek, Falintil Commander:
15.29 Who's still to come? Quickly you prick. If you want to play games go back to the city.
Mark Davis:
15.36 The new recruits didn't just bring civilian habits with them. They brought eyewitness accounts of brutalities by ABRI and the pro-integration militias in the surrounding areas. In late October, Falur struck.
Falintil recruit:
15.52 These are the two of the soldiers we killed. This one, he is an engineer - but he is also involved with intelligence. These ID cards identify him as Intel. They are criminals. This one - Abdul Latif.... Abdul Latif, he was a Sergeant. He tortured people, he killed. He lived in Baucau. He'd take young people to the Red House. Many people died there. Slashed, stabbed and killed. He even smashed the statue of Our Lady of Fatima. They were captured. They deserved to die. We killed them.
Mark Davis:
16.41 A few days later Falur struck again.
16.55 This film was shot by one of Falur's soldiers as they moved out of the jungle and gathered near the town of Alas.
17.03 The ABRI soldiers stationed in Alas had begun searching for and arresting villagers who they suspected of supporting Falintil.
Falintil guerrilla:
17.11 Dance, drink, shoot and die.
Mark Davis:
17.14 As the guerrillas marched towards the village, some of the young people of Alas saw them coming - but each of them had their reasons not to alert the Indonesians.
17.24 15 year old female Falintil guerrilla:
They violate us girls, it's wrong. They mistreat our parents as well.
17.36 19 year old female Falintil guerrilla:
They beat to death my brother Raphael, and then Joaquin and then Leopoldo Franco.
Mark Davis:
17.50 There were 14 Indonesian soldiers in and around the Alas base.
17.56 Three Indonesians were killed in the battle. And as the Falintil guerrillas began to pin down the other 11, many of the young people of Alas, after years of pent-up fury, began to join in the attack.
Falantil guerrilla:
18.10 Stop shooting! Who shot him? Fire again and I'll shoot you.
Mark Davis:
18.18 Falantil prevented a massacre. The 11 soldiers were captured and later released - but if there was one event last year which galvanised ABRI's relationship with the militia groups it was this attack. Civilians were now clearly a threat.
15 year old Falantil guerrilla:
18.33 We didn't kill the soldiers. The men did it. But in East Timor men and women do the fighting, so we carried out our duty.
Mark Davis:
18.45 Infuriated by the loss of an arsenal of weapons and the deaths of their soldiers, ABRI's retaliation was swift. 8 civilians are known to have been killed by ABRI in Alas and dozens of others are still missing. But ABRI's actions didn't go unnoticed - they were loudly condemned around the world. And it was from this point that the proxy war began - and the militias became ABRI's weapon.
19.13 The most brutal response came in the town of Ainaro. It was here that the 'village guards' were elevated into a pro-integration terror squad - the Mahidi militia, led by Cancio Carvalho - wealthy landowner and official in the Department of Justice.
19.29 Cancio and his men were issued with 20 guns by ABRI around Christmas time. Within days they'd begun to arrest and torture civilians. In early January the first killings began.
Jaimito de Jesus, Refugee:
19.42 The Mahidi were standing in front of the church, and behind them stood the military.
As we got off the bikes to greet them, they started shooting immediately. Eight were wounded and two were killed.
Then they went to his body, picked up the dead boy by his hair and cut off his ear and his leg. He was just an ordinary boy.
Mark Davis:
20.13 The next victim of Cancio's Mahidi was a farmer killed at random and left buried up to his neck by the side of the road.
20.21 The village of Galitas was their next destination
Rui da Costa, Kontras human rights group:
20.25 Here they killed a woman. A pregnant woman. She was pregnant and they shot her. This is the photo.
Mark Davis:
20.36 They also executed an old man here and a young boy and mutilated all of their bodies. Thousands of people began to flee.
"Sipri":
20.46 We'd talked about why Timor should be independent. That's why they hated us.
Mark Davis:
20.56 This young man was in the village of Galitas when the attack began. He hid nearby as his Grandfather and two cousins were killed.
"Sipri":
21.04These three just went out to talk to them and they were shot straight away.
Cancio and Lino ordered their men to cut off the top of the old man's head and take it with them. His two children were mutilated so badly we couldn't pick up their bodies later.
Cancio Carvalho, Mahidi militia Commander:
21.23 Q: Who cut open the woman? Who sliced open the man's head here?
A: Oh no no. It wasn't like that. The attack was like this. I fired like this. I was leading them and we attacked in two lines. I ordered them to fire in a scissor action, like this. She was torn apart. I didn't cut her.
"Sipri":
21.53They tried to remove her baby but they weren't able to. So they just slashed at her, left and right. Then they chopped into her feet.
Cancio Carvalho, Mahidi militia Commander:
21.09 This woman was the wife of a Falintil Commander. I'm not sure if the old man was a troublemaker or not.
"Sipri":
21.22 They came in three vehicles with ten ABRI soldiers and fifteen Mahidi members who were all Timorese. They came into Galitas village, spread out and started to surround us.
Rui da Costa, Kontras human rights group:
21.34 We at Kontras won't hold Mahidi responsible. We will make every effort to take the Indonesian military Commander to court. If he doesn't take responsibility now, he will have to answer to an international court one day.
Mark Davis:
23.00 Francisco Calvalho is Cancio's brother. He has intimate links with the pro-integration movement, Indonesian intelligence and the military. For many years he was the General Secretary of the Pro-Indonesian Apodeti party. Today he supports independence, and in the past few months many other key Apodeti figures have joined with him.
23.22 Francisco maintains that his brother and others like him, were given guns and free licence to use them as part of a plan devised last year between the Apodeti party and ABRI.
Francisco Carvalho, Cancio Carvalho's brother:
23.35 This document was given to me by one of their intelligence agents.
Many of the pro-integrationists involved in this meeting have told me about it. It's factual. The meeting was held and this document created on June 24 1998 at 1pm.
Mark Davis:
23.55 The document is not a signed agreement. It's presented as an internal Apodeti report of a meeting held at ABRI headquarters in Dili. A meeting held just days after Habibie and Alatas had offered East Timor, not independence, but a form of autonomous self rule.
24.13 Accordingly the Apodeti leaders began to prepare their military forces with financial support in all military matters to be provided by ABRI.
24.23 The meeting forecast raising a civilian army to intimidate and destroy all East Timorese who are opposed to integration with Indonesia, to ensure the political success of the Apodeti party. An army to be under the joint command of ABRI - an army to be raised from the existing network of 'village guards'.
Col. Tono Suratman, East Timor ABRI Commander:
24.44 Q: Have you seen this document before?
A: It is not true.
Q: You read that in about three seconds, and said it's not true. What part of it's not true?
A: Yes, yes - because I look this sign. There's no explanation of who this person is, who the report is for, where it's from, when it was made. There's no proof, so after glancing at it, I can't guarantee it's authentic.
Francisco Carvalho, Cancio Carvalho's brother:
25.20 Guns have been handed out, everyone knows that. But I think to date it's been less than 10,000.
Mark Davis:
25.27 According to Francisco, as Apodeti politicians began to back away from the extremities of the militias, news of the arms distribution started to leak.
25.37 Three militia groups now effectively control an arc across the western part of East Timor.
25.44 Cancio's Mahidi in the Ainaro region. Joao Taveres' Halilinta in Maliana and Balibo, and Eurico's Gardapaksi in Maubara - a strategically critical area covering the entire border region with Indonesian West Timor.
26.01 Across these regions the rule of the village guards is now absolute and the recruiting is constant.
26.09 In Maubara, west of Dili, there's fewer guns - but the machetes are being put to equally deadly use. Everyone is now expected to join the pro-Indonesian militias - and the recruiting officers are ABRI soldiers. Thousands are fleeing.
26.27 Januario and his wife Maria thought they could survive the chaos that was unfolding in Maubara. They obliged the militias in any way they could, but by now there appears to be no logic behind the violence at all. Two nights ago Januario was beaten and Maria was raped by a gang of militias and ABRI soldiers.
Januario Pereiro:
26.47 In my village there is no-one who's pro-integration.
They're forced to serve the military because they're frightened.
Col. Tono Suratman, East Timor ABRI Commander:
26.55 ABRI has no involvement with those people in Maubara. What you may have seen there has clearly arisen spontaneously from the people.
27.17 Sebastian, a student from Dili agrees to come with me, to pass on my request for an interview with the militias from Januario's village.
Januario Pereiro:
27.26 There were only about 12 of them going around forcing people to join up.
27.36 The promise is: if you get everybody to support Indonesia, you will get 4 cows and a house. A brick house.
Mark Davis:
27.29 The leaders of the Gardapaksi are stationed on this hill overlooking the village. Sebastian goes up to discuss my request.
28.07 An ABRI patrol are meeting with the Gardapaksi leaders but they leave when they realise I'm there.
28.14And they leave the Gardapaksi still holding at least one AK47, a rifle and an arsenal of traditional weapons.
Sebastian Guterres:
28.23 No. They forced me to leave man.
Mark Davis:
28.27 Q: Can we talk? Just a few words. Can I come up?
Sebastian Guterres:
28.34 I don't think that's a good idea man.
Mark Davis:
28.41 The surrounding villages under the Gardapaksi control are now virtually empty.
28.47 Just a few weeks ago this village was used on Indonesian TV as an example of loyal Timorese wanting to remain part of the Republic.
28.57 Today the banners and flags have gone and so have most of the people - and the ones that are here don't want to talk.
29.07 We approach a small group of militias on guard duty on the road nearby.
Mark Davis:
29.12 Although they were manning one of the dozens of check posts that the militias had set up, it soon become clear that they were as much victims as anyone else.
Bystander:
29.22 Don't film us... They'll come and beat us up.
Sebastian Guterres:
29.25 The Indonesian soldiers will come and beat them up.
Bystander:
29.29 Q: The soldiers or the paramilitaries?
A: The soldiers. ABRI. If you're filming they'll come and beat us to death. We're meant to be guarding here. You can't film.
Bystander:
29.39 Don't do it. Go away. Get out now.
Mark Davis:
29.55 Q: Who is this man?
Bystander:
29.58 The army will come and shoot us.
Ali Alatas, Indonesian Foreign Minister:
30.07 We are not interested in instigating anything.
Q: So if I can totally accept your personal assurance, but can you totally trust all sections of ABRI?
A: Yes.
Mark Davis:
30.22 Balibo, near the West Timor border.
30.31 This is the first in what is to be a series of public rallies organised by the militias - the beginning of a political campaign in the areas they have already conquered militarily.
30.43 Hundreds of people arrive from the surrounding villages.
Peasant Bystanders:
30.48 Q: What does your sign say?
A: I don't know.
Another Peasant Bystander:
30.57 Q: Sir, can I ask you what your sign says?
A: I don't know.
Another Peasant Bystander:
31.04: Q You made it - do you know what it says though?
Joao Tavares, Militia Chief Commander:
31.15 Red and white is ours.
Mark Davis:
31.25 Today's rally is to announce the formal merger of the militias. From today the 'village guards' are now officially an army with the military and political goal of integration with Indonesia.
31.39 Not a single politician or prominent leader in East Timor has agreed to join with them.
31.51 Joao Tavares, major landlord and patron in this region and head of the militia group Halilinta, is inaugurated as the Commander In Chief. Tavares is an old hand at the militia game. He was the leader of the militia group which joined with the Indonesians in killing the five journalists here at Balibo in 1975. From today he is to be referred to as General Taverres.
32.15 And every General needs able Lieutenants.
32.21 Cancio Carvalho takes his bows. A non-entity just three months ago, today his reputation is based on little more than the deaths of unarmed civilians.
32.32 Gardapaksi leader Eurico Guterres shares the number two position
Eurico Guterres, Gardapaksi militia Commander:
31.39 I'll defend integration with the last drop of my blood.
Mark Davis:
32.45 Not everyone who supports integration with Indonesia is talking about dying or killing for it. But to date there've been few avenues for that opinion to be expressed. At the moment, to publicly declare support for integration means you are, by default, represented by this lot.
33.03Yesterday's hero Joao Tavares and the new bloods Cancio and Eurico.
Joao Tavares:
33.09 I am like a father to you. Anything you want, I'll give to you. You name it.
Mark Davis:
33.20As Jakarta considers its decision on the future of East Timor, these men now claim that the districts they control support integration. And there's little doubt that any ballot or form of consultation with the people here would be a farce while the militias are still in control.
33.38 In any event, whatever the majority of East Timorese think, the militias now claim that they'll go to war if anything less than full integration, or integration with limited autonomy, is decided upon.
Cancio Carvalho:
33.51 Autonomy means freedom - autonomy. It's a Latin word if I'm not mistaken. What the name Mahidi means is life or death, life or death for integration with Indonesia.
Mark Davis:
34.11Gardapaksi, Halilinta and Mahidi still retain their official status and privileges as village guards. This gives them ABRI's full military backing - or ABRI's averted gaze, as the situation may require.
With the backing and consent of ABRI, the militias continuing conquest is almost unstoppable. As Independence groups await the results of a political and diplomatic process, the nation they hope to form is in danger of being stolen away piece by piece.
Cancio Carvalho:
34.43 The time for me to talk is still a long way off. The time has come for me to act - that time is now.
34.55 Q: Your reputation that you are a murderer, a torturer, and that you terrorise the people to torture in your area.
A: These supporters of mine are fighting for a just cause. But the supporters of the other people say I'm a killer, a criminal. So what? So what?
Bystander:
35.17 The order has come from Xanana Gusmao. We are here to take this boy to his final resting place. Not for a demonstration.
Mark Davis:
35.57 Benedito de Jesus is about to be buried - the young man who was shot in Dili by either ABRI or Mahidi. More than 20,000 are attending his funeral.
36.10 Throughout the turmoil and provocations of the past few months, the civilians have stayed off the streets - there's been no demonstrations or protests..
Xanana Gusmao, East Timor Resistance Leader:
36.20 One of the principles of the guerrilla movement is to have the moral strength to be patient. When we want to come out to fight, we fight. If we don't want to fight, we won't. When we want to provoke we'll provoke. But we can ignore their provocations.
Mark Davis:
36.45 The discipline here is a testimony to Xanana's authority, but it is also a sign of raw fear.
36.59 Eight years ago, a procession just like this set off for Santa Cruz cemetery to mourn the death of another young man shot by soldiers. Then they carried flags and banners of independence. Dozens, maybe hundreds, of them were gunned down and clubbed to death. Today they follow that same route but the only messages are written in dust, and the only shouting is in their eyes.
37.29 If the restraint of Xanana Gusmao and the East Timorese snaps, no one doubts that many more of them will die. But whatever these people have endured through the last 23 years, whatever they endure now, they've never lost sight of their ultimate destination. It's a tenacity that has infuriated and baffled Indonesia - but not yet defeated them.
Ali Alatas, Indonesian Foreign Minister:
37.52 Who are the sufferers? The East Timorese, because they've been dreaming dreams that they could never get. It's, they know they couldn't because it couldn't happen.
Q: But now they are getting it, which is the great irony, isn't it?
A: No, well there is a possibility. Yeah, that's a possibility. They're not getting it yet. They still have to prove that they are the majority right?
Mark Davis:
38.17 It's hard to prove you are the majority when to speak is to die. It seems that the majority have never been so silent. The only sound heard today in East Timor is the sound of grief.
End 39.12
Reporter: Mark Davis for ABC Australia
Producer: Michael Doyle
Researcher:Andrea Thomson