02:38 DIANA ANDRINGA, (VOICE OVER IMAGE) Once upon a time, thousands of years ago, there was a crocodile in a swamp who longed to see the sea. One day, he took courage and set out across the sand, but the heat made him weak.He thought he would die, baked by the sun, when a boy came by and saw the crocodile's distress, helped him across to the sea. Grateful, the crocodile promised him: "If you ever wish to travel, call me, and I will take you on my back." Years later, the boy called the crocodile and they travelled together for a while. They had a dream: to find the golden disk that hid in the sea every day. When the crocodile felt death was near, he said to his companion: "I am going to die, but I will not leave you alone." "You and your descendants will live off me and you will be able to fulfil our dream." As he said this, he started to grow and as he grew, mountain ranges, jungles and rivers started growing out of his body.Then the boy saw that he had grown too. He was a man and he had a gold disk around his neck,exactly like the one they had searched for together.That is why Timor has the shape of a crocodile.
03:57 TITLE EAST TIMOR, THE DREAM OF THE CROCODILE
04:26 DIANA ANDRINGA INTERVIEWS XANANA GUSMÃO (PRESIDENT OF EAST TIMOR) Mr. President, you once said your dream was to photograph every person from Timor. Yet recently it seems you put away your camera.Have you given up on your dream?
04:38 XANANA GUSMÃO (PRESIDENT OF EAST TIMOR) I haven't given up on the dream, I interrupted it. It's different. Various circumstances stopped me from pursuing the dream, I've only interrupted it. Not long ago,a young girl stated that it is our right to be independent; one people and one Nation.
05:27 DIANA ANDRINGA, (VOICE OVER IMAGE) The symbol of the fight for independence, Xanana Gusmão, with 17 years of armed struggle and 7 years in prison in Indonesia, was voted President of the Democratic Republic of East Timor by an overwhelming majority, at elections supervised by the United Nations in their first attempt at provisional International Government.
05:49 XANANA GUSMÃO (PRESIDENT OF EAST TIMOR) We agreed that the fight should be to free the Motherland. And only that It was a political principle agreed by all which I, unfortunately, was unable to keep to I made them keep to it and I was prevented from doing the same. This places me, a bit, in the role of a bad preacher, And I'm a bit sad because of this.
06:27 DIANA ANDRINGA, (VOICE OVER IMAGE) East Timor celebrated its independence on the 20th of May 2002, becoming the first new country of the 21st Century. It is time for its children to administer what the crocodile in the legend left themLike the Tais, the traditional East Timor cloth, a country is woven from many different threads, not easy to match. It is even harder, when, to four centuries of Portuguese colonialism, followed by 24 years of Indonesian occupation, one adds underdevelopment and the wounds of a war which decimated 1/3 of the population, and which started and finished in undertones of Civil War, fomented by the occupier, between independence fighters and those for the integration in Indonesia. infighting, divided by religion, tribe, ethnicity, politics and by lust for power.The new president's challenge is to help East Timor develop without, as happens in other new independent countries,letting things fall apart when he goes from dreams to practice
08:01 PRESIDENTXANANA GUSMÃO . Now that we achieved our victory, I usually say, all the people fought for the victory, not for the victory itself, but for the dreams they had beyond that victory.
08:17: BRIGADIER-GENERAL FTD-LTAUR MATAN RUAK Moreover, every time he speaks to people, he always says we didn't fight for a President of Timor, nor did we fight for a solely Timorese Government. We didn't even fight for a unique and distinct Timorese flag. We fought for the Supreme objective which was to liberate the Country, to obtain independence, and to progress, which is much more important.
08:49 PRESIDENTXANANA GUSMÃO There will be no progress if the people do not grab hold of their rights and say, what on earth is going on here that keeps us from moving forward.I am making the population aware of a certain control, of the projects, of the Government programs, to avoid that in 10 years' time, the holes in town get closed up while there are still no roads in the interior of the country.
09:49 DIANA ANDRINGA The charismatic leader of the fight, Xanana Gusmão, insists on informality often attending festivities, with his wife and his two-year-old son. But he never forgets those who fell under the occupier throughout the 24-year struggle for independence.
10:05 XANANA GUSMÃO I call for a minute's silence, that God may protect our fallen warriors.Thank you...Thank you.
10:29 DIANA ANDRINGA The many casualties,in the early years of occupation, made the independence fighters change their tactics in October 78, since their support bases had been destroyed and a large part of the Movement's leaders had been killed, captured or had surrendered to the enemy, with Xanana Gusmão applying the new policy after the death of the FALINTIL's first Commander, Nicolau Lobato.
10:51 DARE SEMINARY DEANFRANCISCO TAVARES The strategy was different already: you are going to surrender but you are on our side, you are one of us. Carry on collaborating, carry on working and uniting, for, so long as there is a FALINTIL force which continues the fight in jungle, we will win.
11:10 LIEUTENENT DEOLINDO AMARAL The Indonesian forces were more powerful, our forces could not stand up to them, so before we came down from Matebian, or, before the people came down from Matebian, the war leaders or the local leaders explained to the people that they could surrender, or stay in the jungle, since the enemy was stronger than us. When you surrender, it is your body and your limbs that are with the enemy or that work with the Indonesians, but your spirit and your heart should always work for our struggle, for our organisation.
12:02 XANANA GUSMÃO What are you doing there? Are you killing or robbing someone, brother? No, I wasn't stealing, but there is no justice here. How can there not be justice here? This brother of ours is here now...
12:22 DIANA ANDRINGA Xanana's capacity to get through to the people was reinforced by the violent annihilation which, in the late 70's, almost destroyed the independence movement that had come to control the majority of the country. Xanana, moreover, likes to point out that, if it was by reading Mao Tse Tung that he learnt that all war is specific to time and place, evolving as it unfolds, the fundaments of guerrilla war were learnt through contact with populations who, accosted by hunger, had surrendered to the enemy, but who maintained patriotic in spirit.
12:57 XANANA GUSMÃO When we left Matebian, I went searching for contact agents for our people who were working with the enemy; it was from Mehara, people who were in training and had weapons, called Hansib, they ran alongside the Indonesians in front of the house, click-clack, click-clack, click-clack, singing, with guns, then, at night they would meet me and bring their guns.Then and there, it became clear there was a need to know how to live with the enemy... to be able to defeat him, of course.
13:52 DIANA ANDRINGA Surrender, even for a warrior or a people that venerates the memory of its warriors, does not necessarily mean defeat. As Xanana himself wrote: inflexibility often stops us from understanding what good or bad there may be in the attitudes taken.
14:12 LIEUTENENT-CORONELSABINCA BESSICULIT We had, at that time, support-bases,which they destroyed, namely: the North frontier, South frontier, Centre-North, Centre-South, Centre-East. And finally, our base, so almost all the forces attacked Matebian. When Matebian was left in ruins, we had to take measures to hand over the population and become guerrillas.
14:45 XANANA GUSMÃO There are so many negative points and positive points in any phenomenon,and we could say this: it was good for us that they surrendered! So that we could be so small and so mobile, not to guarantee invulnerability, but to guarantee less possibility of extermination.
15:18 MÁRIO CAEIRO ALVES We have to get on well with the enemy, the Indonesians, because, us here, or rather, in terms of resistance, we didn't have anything...Economically we have nothing. Everything we had to hold on, to live, to fight against the Indonesians; it was all from Indonesia. I could say; food, clothes, medicine, ammunition, guns, it was all from Indonesia. And to get all of this, we had to be friends with the enemy, to get it and use it on the enemy.
15:56 ANTÓNIO DE JESUS If they gave us 10 bullets, we would use 4 and the rest would be for our comrades in the jungle.
16:04 MÁRIO CAEIRO ALVES Here, we learnt this: in a horse's world, you must become like a horse, or you will get kicked.
16:18 DIANA ANDRINGA Thus, Xanana negotiated the exit of the old, the sick and the children of Matebian. For him, war is the art of rational use of the resources available to oppose, or stop, the adversary; squandering and usury should also be avoided. The circumstances at the time dictate the greater or lesser need for the available resources.
16:47 XANANA GUSMÃO Who would feed 27.000 armed men in the jungle? Seven hundred of us were, just as well, we were in an area where there were a lot of plants, like jaca, bread-fruit, coconuts, mangoes...When the people couldn't help us, we lived off all that. But you can't be absolutely... precise when you analyse these things.
17:37 DIANA ANDRINGA On the East Point, the traces of the ancient inhabitants of the crocodile island are kept,the first youth organisations were created. These were the new recruits of the Armed Liberation Forces,the FALINTIL.
17:53 CAPTAIN FDT-LHIGINIO DAS NEVES Commander Xanana left the people of Matebian, the mountain of Matebian for the East Point, which is in the Tutuala district, Suco de Mea, a village. From up there with Adjunto Maubilis, he organised the clandestine organisation, there, in Suco de Mea. So, having organised Lorico de Ramelau, a clandestine operation, there, President Xanana hid in this place, also organising the occupied population on this side. From there, Commander Xanana planned the armed uprising, that is to say, the forceful exit from Lorico de Ramelau to armed resistance.The primary objective of this was to let the world know that the resistance of the Timorese, of East Timor was still going on, and that the people of East Timor wanted to free their Motherland.
19:04 DIANA ANDRINGA Xanana then left the East Point with a reduced number of guerrillas to contact and reunite all the combatants scattered throughout the country by the enemy.In 1981, he assumed command of the East Timor National Liberation Armed forces. Two years later, he proposed a cease-fire to the Indonesian military officer in charge, and used it to reinforce the organisation of his guerrillas.
19:32 EX-GOVERNOR MARIO CARRASCALÃO In May, I got word, through a source used by Xanana Gusmão, that I should meet with him, but he didn't want anyone else there. So, I was taken to Venilale, in a military helicopter, from there I went with Father Locatelli and Mr. Aleixo Guterres, in a jeep to a place somewhere in the Matebian mountains. I learnt from this conversation that the resistance was on its last legs and had been destroyed by the Indonesians' mass attacks and that he needed something, but he took great advantage of our conversation and said this: "What if you, Mario Carrascalão, continued to soften the generals.You're in a position to do that, and whilst you do that, I will reorganise my struggle.After that, if you would like to take care the population,I will take care of the soldiers."
20:41 LIEUTENENT-CORONELSABINCA BESSICULIT Most of those.. who survived Matebian, later regrouped again with others to lead the 1983 uprising when the ULAR, the FALUR and others came out, from the East Point area 90% left for the jungle, and later the struggle was reorganised.
21:15 HIGINIO DAS NEVESCAPTAIN FDT-L During the '83 cease-fire,the people, the youth, increased the resistance, and from there the resistance... Then in October and November, the situation became very heated and the people died or were captured, and those unable to escape were captured by the Indonesians and taken to Viqueque. Then, in Viqueque, in a camp called Krar†s, the enemy killed many people.
21:57 DIANA ANDRINGA Xanana was said to have "matan-hélic", the ability to assume an animal form to escape his pursuers.One thing is sure; he also seems to have learnt with the animals.The struggle of the Timorese has the buffalo's defensive serenity, its feet firmly planted on the ground and the art of avoiding more than confronting. As Xanana wrote: "The attack must not disregard the defence,"and defence, in this case, is not the act of pure conservation; in this case, it should be looked upon strategically, as maintaining a certain capacity to guarantee continuity..." Xanana's pragmatism allowed many who had surrendered or been captured to continue in the struggle, something that a policy based on rigid principles could never accept.
22:45 RESISTENCE VETERANVIRGÍLIO SMITH On the day of the invasion, I was in Bobonaro. And I remained in Bobonaro until '78. Then, me and my section, we were captured in '78. We were held prisoners in Ermera for a year, then I was transferred to Dili, and then I stayed in Dili. So, I thought it best to start working. I applied for the Civil Service, for the Indonesian Government...and I got in. I worked for the Department of Information and Culture. I was working for the Indonesians and also working for the redemption of the Resistance...
23:58 DIANA ANDRINGA Throughout the territory, civilians, the clergy, the directors, silently support the struggle for liberation, even when they are officially civil servants, working for the occupier.
24:11 MOISÉS DOS SANTOS I did two jobs: I held clandestine meetings right there in the village, without letting the Indonesians know. If they asked me, I would say I'm doing what you told me to, but I was doing clandestine jobs at the same time in the town, nobody noticed it.
24:34 DIANA ANDRINGA With the Marxist-Leninist temptation far away from the armed front, the church, which always denounced violations of human rights by both guerrillas and Indonesians alike, favoured the independence fighters with whom many of the native clergy have always had a good relationship.
25:08 FRANCISCO TAVARES I always asked them to let each man do his own job, to leave me free to carry out my sacred duties in the jungle, because the Christians needed moral consolation, but always with the spirit of faith, that God is with us, that He helps us in this struggle, because it is a just cause.
25:32 BISHOP BASÍLIO NASCIMENTO Well it was not because of the FRETILIN, it was fundamentally because of the people's suffering. D. Martinho da Costa Lopes himself, may he rest in peace, I think one of the things he said in his conversation with Xanana in Tetuala, was precisely that the church does not side with the FRETILIN, we fight beside you in the interest of the people, but you also need to realise that like this we will not get far, because International public opinion will not pay any attention to us.
26:08 FRANCISCO TAVARES They have already brought from Portugal, fixed ideas and ideologies that they wanted to try out here, and, in fact, they tried them, but this not easy terrain to sow the seeds of communism in, because the people are religious.
26:29 DIANA ANDRINGA Xanana, a contemporary of Francisco Tavares at the seminary in Dare, wrote, in '86: "The East Timor clergy proved they really understand the people's suffering and it's aspirations, and a deep knowledge of the determination of our people."
26:49 LURDES CRUZ (MANA LU) SISTERS AND BROTHERS IN CRIST The Bishop met with me and he told me: "My child, to become a nun is easy. Three years are all it takes to wear a white robe, but look, Timor now needs native nuns from Timor who feel called by God and wish to dedicate themselves to his people. Like this, one day, when there is a native congregation, the people will feel that it is ours and they will adapt easier."
27:28 FRANCISCO TAVARES This group of Timorese priests was precisely a link between the people and with the people. Because the Timorese trust priests much more than anyone else.
27:43 CHOIR SINGING We are in this community To build a new societyTogetherChrist calls usThe people are suffering All types of oppressionMy commitmentThrough baptism Is to help free My brothersLaymen, priestsOr religious menThe missionIs the same for allTo serve your fellow man
28:58 BISHOP XIMENES BELO One of Indonesia's demands was that all the citizens should state their religion on their identity card. Faced with the danger of everybody being forced to follow Islam, Catholicism came as a form of defence, and I know of missionaries, priests, who baptised thousands in this way, so that at least the word "catholic" would appear on their identity cards.
29:39 DIANA ANDRINGA Indonesia hoped in vain to replace the difficult Monsenhor Costa Lopes with the young Ximenes Belo, who they thought they could control.
29:50 BISHOP XIMENES BELO I was still young and inexperienced, maybe I dealt more with Indonesians, but for me one thing was clear; I needed to get out to the villages to be amongst the people and speak for them.
30:26 DIANA ANDRINGA The substitution of D. Martinho by D. Carlos Ximenes Belo, didn't stop the Presbyterian Council of Dili condemning the human rights violations which the Timorese continued to be victims of.And it was Ximenes Belo himself who, in '89, asked the UN secretary-general to hold a referendum, just as he asked the Pope, in Timor, to address the people in Tetum, their language.
30:48 MASS BISHOP XIMENES BELO Fear no-one when you claim the Jesus is the Messiah, Jesus is the Lord, so the Holy sacrament of confirmation...
31:01 DIANA ANDRINGA The use of Tetum in the liturgy is undeniably important, as the local clergy realised:
31:11 VOICE OVER IMAGE BISHOP XIMENES BELO each one spoke his own dialect, but between the Church and the liturgy in Tetum the people became united as if by one single language. I was preparing for the independence by uniting people of various different lines of descent and ethnic groups, and everything had the church in common.
31:46 DIANA ANDRINGA Thus, slowly, patiently, the thread that would lead East Timor to independence was woven. Patience, as Xanana Gusmão wrote, is one of the principles of guerrilla warfare, and impatience, a deadly sin. Ultimately, everything lies in unbalancing the enemy... and acting according to the circumstances. Circumstance also dictated the women's involvement in the armed struggle. They did support work when there were enough soldiers and joined the action when there weren't.
32:26 EUFRÁSIA MENESES (MANA BI-RALI) When we, the women, went into the jungle and went with the FALINTIL guerrillas, in Dili or in the jungle, above all, we defended the right and the will of East Timor, that's why we, the women, joined the guerrillas in the armed resistance. In '72, I went into the health services, I don't know about what happened before, but in the guerrilla warfare, the medics taught us. But then many medics were either killed or captured...I stayed in the FALINTIL and when someone from the FALINTIL was injured or sick, I would treat their illness or their wounds during the years I was in the jungle.
33:32 DIANA ANDRINGA Circumstances also dictated the occasional greater prominence of the three fronts:the armed, the diplomatic or the clandestine front.
33:42 TAUR MATAN RUAK So, whether we like it or not, by organising the people according to the situation itself, it determines the way of reflecting on and understanding the process, and organising the people according to that process, that objective.
34:04 DIANA ANDRINGA The clandestine network, though less visible, was of greater importance. Without the popular support that it was built on, life would have been very much harder for those in the jungle who fought against occupation.
34:18 VIRGÍLIO SMITH In that organisation, we had a structure that ran from the centre of operations in Dili, through the districts and even to the villages. What we called "post boxes" were houses where people lived, but that would serve as storehouses for any type of support to the armed resistance. I'm talking about logistics, mail... We would send things to these houses and the couriers would collect them. And those responsible for these houses, who were called "boxes", would pass on the various articles for the guerrillas through couriers.
35:28 DIANA ANDRINGA Sometimes these clandestine houses hid more than guns or ammunition. They would shelter the leaders of the armed struggle. Konis Santana, one of those leaders, lived for years in three houses in the Ermera area, where he eventually died.
35:43 CAETANO XIMENES The late Konis Santana came into this region when he took his place as military commander, after the supreme leader, Xanana Gusmão, was captured.
35:56 FRANCISCO BABO First he came to my house, then he was transferred here, then to somewhere else. After he was here, we convinced brother Lima-Lima e Caetano and we put together a plan to build these hiding places...This is the bathroom.
36:34 ANTÓNIO DOS SANTOS (LIMA-LIMA) This is Konis Santana's and Pedro's room, they stayed here when things were normal as soon as we heard any other information, they would have to change hiding place.Every day we always listened to the enemy. Whenever there was some kind of information on the radio he had to leave here immediately.
37:11 CAETANO XIMENES The first time we met here in my house, he gave me the idea of building a hiding place for storing arms. After that, we planned to make this a hiding place for three months.I made this hiding place, not for myself, but for region four and for the good of East Timor.
37:40 ISABEL TRINDADE We agreed and we did this to safeguard his life, so that he might have lived until the present, that he might have lived to enjoy independence.But God called him and he had to leave us and we in this family, are all very sad....
37:59 DIANA ANDRINGA Matan Ruak, Konis's successor, also had several hiding places, like this one, in Manatuto.
38:10 AGOSTINHA SOARES He was here from the 7th of November '98 to the 13th of May '99. This was brother Matan Ruak's hiding place, not to stay in, to only be reserved in case of anything, not for us to stay in there, it was reserved for him alone. Only us, my parents, my children, knew that he we here with us. Not even our cousins or our neighbours knew that brother Matan Ruak was here. The children knew brother Matan Ruak was here but they did not know who brother Matan Ruak was.
39:08 DIANA ANDRINGA The Liberation Front received support from people everywhere and very often right under the occupiers' noses.
39:23 BISHOP MÁRIO BELO Xanana was everyone's idol, he was the one idol that some would even die for. Once he came to see me. I did not live far from the road, it was 20 or 30 metres from there...His arrival was a curious thing.He had set the time, seven o'clock in the afternoon, and in the meantime, two Indonesian officers wanted to come around on that very day, at that time. I got worried and I told them to tell the Commander that I was sick and to ask if they could come the next day. They said yes, so they only came the next day. Xanana was in the dining room here. The living room was on one side and Xanana was on the other side, in the same house. I spoke with them for an hour, and in the meantime, since it was already night time, around eight o'clock, Xanana, who usually goes to bed early, was already asleep when I came out.
40:44 DIANA ANDRINGA A clandestine pilgrimage filmed by English journalists, to the tomb, in the Santa Cruz cemetery, of a young boy killed by Indonesian troops, finally projected the struggle of East Timor onto the world stage.
41:01 XANANA GUSMÃO If we look at Santa Cruz, it was a defeat, it was a loss of personnel. But if we see the struggle as a whole, it was a qualitative balance, in terms of information and raising the awareness of the world leaders.
41:17 XIMENES BELO It was, undoubtedly, a victory, but I think about the young and the victims, and I regret that young people, hundreds of young people died, innocently losing their lives for this cause.
41:42 DIANA ANDRINGA One year after the massacre of Santa Cruz, Xanana Gusmão was arrested in Dili. Indonesia rejoiced prematurely, failing to understand that they had imported the war to their own territory. In fact, from the prison in Cipinang, Xanana continued to direct the diplomatic front, lead by Ramos Horta; the clandestine front, some of whose young members were imprisoned with him.He also continued to direct the armed front, through contacts, with Ma huno, Konis Santana and Taur Matan Ruak,who succeeded him.
42:10 JOÃO CÂMARA We transformed the prison to cater for our clandestine activities, to continue and maintain our communication with the outside, to keep the flame of our struggle of resistance... alive.
42:28 VIRGÍLIO SMITH We were convinced that his capture served more to...shorten the long process of the struggle, it was another step forward.
42:45 XANANA GUSMÃO We have witnessed many captures of many of our comrades. We learnt... how to change the situation from the inside. Those who had been captured would tactically accommodate the situation, they studied the situation and then supplied us with information, with ammunition. There was a greater potential for much more active participation than in the jungle.
43:38 JOÃO CÂMARA It was thanks to his detainment, that we, due to our activities in prison, made the world know of him, who Xanana really was. through correspondence, through communication with the outside, our liberation finally came.
44:06 DIANA ANDRINGA In Cipinang prison, where he wrote poetry, painted, developed his love of photography and played football with the guards, Xanana remained patient. His solid knowledge of the Timorese made him believe that victory was certain. His pragmatism lead him to recommend moderation to convince the Indonesians to accept a referendum which he knew would result in independence.
44:33 VIRGÍLIO SMITH I still remember, one time when they were sort of counting numbers, by district and sub-district, to find out how many people supported autonomy, and of course as the administrators of the posts, the people who worked at the posts and the Councils were our people working there, they would make up numbers: autonomy 90%, pro-independence 20%. The Indonesians were all satisfied that they would win with all that percentage, of course they would win...
45:53 MOISÉS DOS SANTOS That very night I telephoned Xanana to ask him...These guys are ordering me to make a statement to bring all the people from Lauhata, to this organisation of Besi Mera Putih. When I phoned Xanana, he told me: do it the way they want, they are in charge, let their will be done. So in the morning, I made the statement.
45:53 DIANA ANDRINGA When, finally, Xanana was freed, unofficially he was already the Timorese president. But during the elections, he hesitated over his candidacy until the end. During the campaign he explained to the people, district by district, that the fight was not over, and that it was necessary to build a true democracy and that they could count on him, as president, to listen to their complaints.Too many times, what starts as love for the people, degenerates into dictatorial attitudes. This is a risk that is flatly disregarded by those who know Xanana best.
46:33 VIRGÍLIO SMITH He taught us that with so many experiences that we can take from the other colonies, after they achieved their independence...The leaders of the liberation governments became presidents. But then after that, they also became greater dictators, more corrupt. And that was a nightmare. And that nightmare is hanging over Xanana and that is why he never wanted to be president.He never wanted to be president.
48:13 XANANA GUSMÃO I'm not immune, but I think that I'm sufficiently mature to face those problems. But also both the people of Indonesia and Timor, when they came to congratulate me after the elections asked me not to change. "Don't change what you've always been."
48:13 TAUR MATAN RUAK When you are faced with the concept of Democracy, you are implicitly faced with three things that nobody must forget. The first, is talking about Democracy as an abstract concept; the second is practising Democracy, which is something much more profound, which goes beyond talking, just talking, already actually practising it; third, defending Democracy. All very different things...
48:45 XIMENES BELO Well, Xanana has been in the jungle, and then in prison. He is a very sensitive person, very sensitive to suffering, and also very humble, so...He overtook us all, in this field of reconciliation, wanting to forget and embrace everyone...And so... praised be God for those qualities Xanana has.
49:14 XANANA GUSMÃO As president, in the next 5 years, I will continually meet with the population and I will continue to say: I don't want to be president. You elected me president and I am here as such, but remember that I don't want to be president. This is also to tell them: You didn't want to be president...Don't forget to carry on being what you have always been.
49:46 DIANA ANDRINGA The warrior has won the long fight for liberation. Now, there is the country to build. A poor country, used to dependency, divided between an older generation, educated in Tetum and Portuguese, and the younger generation, schooled in Indonesian Bahasa. A country with a shortage of doctors, basic sanitation, and infrastructure; where agriculture and cattle breeding have been deeply affected by war, and where industry is rudimentary; where violence has set Timorese against Timorese, with overtones of the occupier's conspiracies.
50:28 BISHOP BASÍLIO NASCIMENTO In this phase, Timor will depend fundamentally on external help. So long as this help is not lacking and so long as our governors have the capacity to open up ways, to give directions and at the same time, be able to manage, as much as possible, the administration, I think Timor will take time, without a doubt, but it will rebuild itself.
51:03 TAUR MATAN RUAK In reality our fight is not over yet, it will continue.
51:09 DIANA ANDRINGA What is important in rebuilding East Timor, more than the infrastructure, is to overcome the hate and mistrust. It seems impossible since there was so much violence.
51:21 XANANA GUSMÃO The violence was heavy. In these 5 years, I'm going to try to get rid of the ghost of the violence that may still be here, and I believe that these people want their own good, and this is what they fought for.
51:38 BASÍLIO NASCIMENTO Timorese psychology is a bit peculiar, I think all people have this notion. If the one who did wrong takes the first step, the one harmed will weep with him.
51:55 MOISÉS DOS SANTOS That afternoon, the militia man was still in Atambua, and when reconciliation came,he hugged me and cried, and I even said to the guy: "You are Timorese and I don't hold a grudge against you." And I even hugged the guy.
52:09 MÁRIO ALVES CAEIRR I would be happy if those outside Timor were to return.
52:16 BISHOP MÁRIO BELO They are all sick of the fighting, and more or less everyone wants to rest and live in peace, to forget the past and take advantage to rebuild the future.
52:30 DIANA ANDRINGA A problem in countries that have been through lengthy wars, is reintegrating former fighters. In Timor, this is also a cause of some concern.
52:40 XIMENES BELO We hoped this factor, where the FALINTIL marched in protest on the 20th, would end there, but they have already come to me, since then, with more demands because of their rights, their priviledges.
52:55 XANANA GUSMÃO As far as I'm concerned, the best solution for all the social problems, is to offer people job opportunities
53:05 DIANA ANDRINGA Children like Pedro Unamet Rodrigues, born in the UNAMET headquarters during an outburst of violence in 1999, expect of Xanana, of the country's leaders, progress and true independence.These children's dreams, can only become possible now.
53:28 PEDRO UNAMED’S MOTHER And all of a sudden, he was born, in the middle of all the shots, without difficulty. But I never believed he would survive. I always thought, after the birth, the militia could arrive at any moment and cut us to pieces.
53:46 PEDRO UNAMED’S FATHER The foreigner who delivered him was called Pedro. With God's help, I will put him through studies so he can become a doctor too.
54:00 XANANA GUSMÃO My dream for Timor...?A green country, with a lot of water, many flowers; each family with a house; the children playing in the gardens, schools nearby, good sanitation, the elderly being looked after, roads to tend to the population's needs, not enormous, not beautiful motorways, but enough of everything that's necessary. The minimum necessary so that people, in each and every home, smile every morning, and so that at night, they don't have... nightmares.
54:58 XIMENES BELO Well, my dream is more down to earth. I want Timor to be a Switzerland or a Singapore or Burnai-dar-el-Salem.
55:08 TAUR MATAN RUAK If paradise exists, we want to turn Timor into a paradise, a real earthly paradise.
55:23 VIRGÍLIO SMITH A lot of work, a lot of effort, and a lot of using your head.
55:29 MÁRIO CARRASCALÃO I think the leaders have to honour the blood that was shed here in Timor.
55:43 DIANA ANDRINGA Apart from taking photographs, you also said you wanted to visit the places of fighting and honour the fallen...Which battlefields marked you most?
55:56 XANANA GUSMÃO So many...But the one that marked me most was in Aitana in September '81.. It was terrible! And I am still inviting you, one day when I go there, you will come with me. I can't say it will be in these next five years, but...This won't affect my decision to, one day, do exactly that...
57:55 ENDS
03:57 TITLE EAST TIMOR, THE DREAM OF THE CROCODILE
04:26 DIANA ANDRINGA INTERVIEWS XANANA GUSMÃO (PRESIDENT OF EAST TIMOR) Mr. President, you once said your dream was to photograph every person from Timor. Yet recently it seems you put away your camera.Have you given up on your dream?
04:38 XANANA GUSMÃO (PRESIDENT OF EAST TIMOR) I haven't given up on the dream, I interrupted it. It's different. Various circumstances stopped me from pursuing the dream, I've only interrupted it. Not long ago,a young girl stated that it is our right to be independent; one people and one Nation.
05:27 DIANA ANDRINGA, (VOICE OVER IMAGE) The symbol of the fight for independence, Xanana Gusmão, with 17 years of armed struggle and 7 years in prison in Indonesia, was voted President of the Democratic Republic of East Timor by an overwhelming majority, at elections supervised by the United Nations in their first attempt at provisional International Government.
05:49 XANANA GUSMÃO (PRESIDENT OF EAST TIMOR) We agreed that the fight should be to free the Motherland. And only that It was a political principle agreed by all which I, unfortunately, was unable to keep to I made them keep to it and I was prevented from doing the same. This places me, a bit, in the role of a bad preacher, And I'm a bit sad because of this.
06:27 DIANA ANDRINGA, (VOICE OVER IMAGE) East Timor celebrated its independence on the 20th of May 2002, becoming the first new country of the 21st Century. It is time for its children to administer what the crocodile in the legend left themLike the Tais, the traditional East Timor cloth, a country is woven from many different threads, not easy to match. It is even harder, when, to four centuries of Portuguese colonialism, followed by 24 years of Indonesian occupation, one adds underdevelopment and the wounds of a war which decimated 1/3 of the population, and which started and finished in undertones of Civil War, fomented by the occupier, between independence fighters and those for the integration in Indonesia. infighting, divided by religion, tribe, ethnicity, politics and by lust for power.The new president's challenge is to help East Timor develop without, as happens in other new independent countries,letting things fall apart when he goes from dreams to practice
08:01 PRESIDENTXANANA GUSMÃO . Now that we achieved our victory, I usually say, all the people fought for the victory, not for the victory itself, but for the dreams they had beyond that victory.
08:17: BRIGADIER-GENERAL FTD-LTAUR MATAN RUAK Moreover, every time he speaks to people, he always says we didn't fight for a President of Timor, nor did we fight for a solely Timorese Government. We didn't even fight for a unique and distinct Timorese flag. We fought for the Supreme objective which was to liberate the Country, to obtain independence, and to progress, which is much more important.
08:49 PRESIDENTXANANA GUSMÃO There will be no progress if the people do not grab hold of their rights and say, what on earth is going on here that keeps us from moving forward.I am making the population aware of a certain control, of the projects, of the Government programs, to avoid that in 10 years' time, the holes in town get closed up while there are still no roads in the interior of the country.
09:49 DIANA ANDRINGA The charismatic leader of the fight, Xanana Gusmão, insists on informality often attending festivities, with his wife and his two-year-old son. But he never forgets those who fell under the occupier throughout the 24-year struggle for independence.
10:05 XANANA GUSMÃO I call for a minute's silence, that God may protect our fallen warriors.Thank you...Thank you.
10:29 DIANA ANDRINGA The many casualties,in the early years of occupation, made the independence fighters change their tactics in October 78, since their support bases had been destroyed and a large part of the Movement's leaders had been killed, captured or had surrendered to the enemy, with Xanana Gusmão applying the new policy after the death of the FALINTIL's first Commander, Nicolau Lobato.
10:51 DARE SEMINARY DEANFRANCISCO TAVARES The strategy was different already: you are going to surrender but you are on our side, you are one of us. Carry on collaborating, carry on working and uniting, for, so long as there is a FALINTIL force which continues the fight in jungle, we will win.
11:10 LIEUTENENT DEOLINDO AMARAL The Indonesian forces were more powerful, our forces could not stand up to them, so before we came down from Matebian, or, before the people came down from Matebian, the war leaders or the local leaders explained to the people that they could surrender, or stay in the jungle, since the enemy was stronger than us. When you surrender, it is your body and your limbs that are with the enemy or that work with the Indonesians, but your spirit and your heart should always work for our struggle, for our organisation.
12:02 XANANA GUSMÃO What are you doing there? Are you killing or robbing someone, brother? No, I wasn't stealing, but there is no justice here. How can there not be justice here? This brother of ours is here now...
12:22 DIANA ANDRINGA Xanana's capacity to get through to the people was reinforced by the violent annihilation which, in the late 70's, almost destroyed the independence movement that had come to control the majority of the country. Xanana, moreover, likes to point out that, if it was by reading Mao Tse Tung that he learnt that all war is specific to time and place, evolving as it unfolds, the fundaments of guerrilla war were learnt through contact with populations who, accosted by hunger, had surrendered to the enemy, but who maintained patriotic in spirit.
12:57 XANANA GUSMÃO When we left Matebian, I went searching for contact agents for our people who were working with the enemy; it was from Mehara, people who were in training and had weapons, called Hansib, they ran alongside the Indonesians in front of the house, click-clack, click-clack, click-clack, singing, with guns, then, at night they would meet me and bring their guns.Then and there, it became clear there was a need to know how to live with the enemy... to be able to defeat him, of course.
13:52 DIANA ANDRINGA Surrender, even for a warrior or a people that venerates the memory of its warriors, does not necessarily mean defeat. As Xanana himself wrote: inflexibility often stops us from understanding what good or bad there may be in the attitudes taken.
14:12 LIEUTENENT-CORONELSABINCA BESSICULIT We had, at that time, support-bases,which they destroyed, namely: the North frontier, South frontier, Centre-North, Centre-South, Centre-East. And finally, our base, so almost all the forces attacked Matebian. When Matebian was left in ruins, we had to take measures to hand over the population and become guerrillas.
14:45 XANANA GUSMÃO There are so many negative points and positive points in any phenomenon,and we could say this: it was good for us that they surrendered! So that we could be so small and so mobile, not to guarantee invulnerability, but to guarantee less possibility of extermination.
15:18 MÁRIO CAEIRO ALVES We have to get on well with the enemy, the Indonesians, because, us here, or rather, in terms of resistance, we didn't have anything...Economically we have nothing. Everything we had to hold on, to live, to fight against the Indonesians; it was all from Indonesia. I could say; food, clothes, medicine, ammunition, guns, it was all from Indonesia. And to get all of this, we had to be friends with the enemy, to get it and use it on the enemy.
15:56 ANTÓNIO DE JESUS If they gave us 10 bullets, we would use 4 and the rest would be for our comrades in the jungle.
16:04 MÁRIO CAEIRO ALVES Here, we learnt this: in a horse's world, you must become like a horse, or you will get kicked.
16:18 DIANA ANDRINGA Thus, Xanana negotiated the exit of the old, the sick and the children of Matebian. For him, war is the art of rational use of the resources available to oppose, or stop, the adversary; squandering and usury should also be avoided. The circumstances at the time dictate the greater or lesser need for the available resources.
16:47 XANANA GUSMÃO Who would feed 27.000 armed men in the jungle? Seven hundred of us were, just as well, we were in an area where there were a lot of plants, like jaca, bread-fruit, coconuts, mangoes...When the people couldn't help us, we lived off all that. But you can't be absolutely... precise when you analyse these things.
17:37 DIANA ANDRINGA On the East Point, the traces of the ancient inhabitants of the crocodile island are kept,the first youth organisations were created. These were the new recruits of the Armed Liberation Forces,the FALINTIL.
17:53 CAPTAIN FDT-LHIGINIO DAS NEVES Commander Xanana left the people of Matebian, the mountain of Matebian for the East Point, which is in the Tutuala district, Suco de Mea, a village. From up there with Adjunto Maubilis, he organised the clandestine organisation, there, in Suco de Mea. So, having organised Lorico de Ramelau, a clandestine operation, there, President Xanana hid in this place, also organising the occupied population on this side. From there, Commander Xanana planned the armed uprising, that is to say, the forceful exit from Lorico de Ramelau to armed resistance.The primary objective of this was to let the world know that the resistance of the Timorese, of East Timor was still going on, and that the people of East Timor wanted to free their Motherland.
19:04 DIANA ANDRINGA Xanana then left the East Point with a reduced number of guerrillas to contact and reunite all the combatants scattered throughout the country by the enemy.In 1981, he assumed command of the East Timor National Liberation Armed forces. Two years later, he proposed a cease-fire to the Indonesian military officer in charge, and used it to reinforce the organisation of his guerrillas.
19:32 EX-GOVERNOR MARIO CARRASCALÃO In May, I got word, through a source used by Xanana Gusmão, that I should meet with him, but he didn't want anyone else there. So, I was taken to Venilale, in a military helicopter, from there I went with Father Locatelli and Mr. Aleixo Guterres, in a jeep to a place somewhere in the Matebian mountains. I learnt from this conversation that the resistance was on its last legs and had been destroyed by the Indonesians' mass attacks and that he needed something, but he took great advantage of our conversation and said this: "What if you, Mario Carrascalão, continued to soften the generals.You're in a position to do that, and whilst you do that, I will reorganise my struggle.After that, if you would like to take care the population,I will take care of the soldiers."
20:41 LIEUTENENT-CORONELSABINCA BESSICULIT Most of those.. who survived Matebian, later regrouped again with others to lead the 1983 uprising when the ULAR, the FALUR and others came out, from the East Point area 90% left for the jungle, and later the struggle was reorganised.
21:15 HIGINIO DAS NEVESCAPTAIN FDT-L During the '83 cease-fire,the people, the youth, increased the resistance, and from there the resistance... Then in October and November, the situation became very heated and the people died or were captured, and those unable to escape were captured by the Indonesians and taken to Viqueque. Then, in Viqueque, in a camp called Krar†s, the enemy killed many people.
21:57 DIANA ANDRINGA Xanana was said to have "matan-hélic", the ability to assume an animal form to escape his pursuers.One thing is sure; he also seems to have learnt with the animals.The struggle of the Timorese has the buffalo's defensive serenity, its feet firmly planted on the ground and the art of avoiding more than confronting. As Xanana wrote: "The attack must not disregard the defence,"and defence, in this case, is not the act of pure conservation; in this case, it should be looked upon strategically, as maintaining a certain capacity to guarantee continuity..." Xanana's pragmatism allowed many who had surrendered or been captured to continue in the struggle, something that a policy based on rigid principles could never accept.
22:45 RESISTENCE VETERANVIRGÍLIO SMITH On the day of the invasion, I was in Bobonaro. And I remained in Bobonaro until '78. Then, me and my section, we were captured in '78. We were held prisoners in Ermera for a year, then I was transferred to Dili, and then I stayed in Dili. So, I thought it best to start working. I applied for the Civil Service, for the Indonesian Government...and I got in. I worked for the Department of Information and Culture. I was working for the Indonesians and also working for the redemption of the Resistance...
23:58 DIANA ANDRINGA Throughout the territory, civilians, the clergy, the directors, silently support the struggle for liberation, even when they are officially civil servants, working for the occupier.
24:11 MOISÉS DOS SANTOS I did two jobs: I held clandestine meetings right there in the village, without letting the Indonesians know. If they asked me, I would say I'm doing what you told me to, but I was doing clandestine jobs at the same time in the town, nobody noticed it.
24:34 DIANA ANDRINGA With the Marxist-Leninist temptation far away from the armed front, the church, which always denounced violations of human rights by both guerrillas and Indonesians alike, favoured the independence fighters with whom many of the native clergy have always had a good relationship.
25:08 FRANCISCO TAVARES I always asked them to let each man do his own job, to leave me free to carry out my sacred duties in the jungle, because the Christians needed moral consolation, but always with the spirit of faith, that God is with us, that He helps us in this struggle, because it is a just cause.
25:32 BISHOP BASÍLIO NASCIMENTO Well it was not because of the FRETILIN, it was fundamentally because of the people's suffering. D. Martinho da Costa Lopes himself, may he rest in peace, I think one of the things he said in his conversation with Xanana in Tetuala, was precisely that the church does not side with the FRETILIN, we fight beside you in the interest of the people, but you also need to realise that like this we will not get far, because International public opinion will not pay any attention to us.
26:08 FRANCISCO TAVARES They have already brought from Portugal, fixed ideas and ideologies that they wanted to try out here, and, in fact, they tried them, but this not easy terrain to sow the seeds of communism in, because the people are religious.
26:29 DIANA ANDRINGA Xanana, a contemporary of Francisco Tavares at the seminary in Dare, wrote, in '86: "The East Timor clergy proved they really understand the people's suffering and it's aspirations, and a deep knowledge of the determination of our people."
26:49 LURDES CRUZ (MANA LU) SISTERS AND BROTHERS IN CRIST The Bishop met with me and he told me: "My child, to become a nun is easy. Three years are all it takes to wear a white robe, but look, Timor now needs native nuns from Timor who feel called by God and wish to dedicate themselves to his people. Like this, one day, when there is a native congregation, the people will feel that it is ours and they will adapt easier."
27:28 FRANCISCO TAVARES This group of Timorese priests was precisely a link between the people and with the people. Because the Timorese trust priests much more than anyone else.
27:43 CHOIR SINGING We are in this community To build a new societyTogetherChrist calls usThe people are suffering All types of oppressionMy commitmentThrough baptism Is to help free My brothersLaymen, priestsOr religious menThe missionIs the same for allTo serve your fellow man
28:58 BISHOP XIMENES BELO One of Indonesia's demands was that all the citizens should state their religion on their identity card. Faced with the danger of everybody being forced to follow Islam, Catholicism came as a form of defence, and I know of missionaries, priests, who baptised thousands in this way, so that at least the word "catholic" would appear on their identity cards.
29:39 DIANA ANDRINGA Indonesia hoped in vain to replace the difficult Monsenhor Costa Lopes with the young Ximenes Belo, who they thought they could control.
29:50 BISHOP XIMENES BELO I was still young and inexperienced, maybe I dealt more with Indonesians, but for me one thing was clear; I needed to get out to the villages to be amongst the people and speak for them.
30:26 DIANA ANDRINGA The substitution of D. Martinho by D. Carlos Ximenes Belo, didn't stop the Presbyterian Council of Dili condemning the human rights violations which the Timorese continued to be victims of.And it was Ximenes Belo himself who, in '89, asked the UN secretary-general to hold a referendum, just as he asked the Pope, in Timor, to address the people in Tetum, their language.
30:48 MASS BISHOP XIMENES BELO Fear no-one when you claim the Jesus is the Messiah, Jesus is the Lord, so the Holy sacrament of confirmation...
31:01 DIANA ANDRINGA The use of Tetum in the liturgy is undeniably important, as the local clergy realised:
31:11 VOICE OVER IMAGE BISHOP XIMENES BELO each one spoke his own dialect, but between the Church and the liturgy in Tetum the people became united as if by one single language. I was preparing for the independence by uniting people of various different lines of descent and ethnic groups, and everything had the church in common.
31:46 DIANA ANDRINGA Thus, slowly, patiently, the thread that would lead East Timor to independence was woven. Patience, as Xanana Gusmão wrote, is one of the principles of guerrilla warfare, and impatience, a deadly sin. Ultimately, everything lies in unbalancing the enemy... and acting according to the circumstances. Circumstance also dictated the women's involvement in the armed struggle. They did support work when there were enough soldiers and joined the action when there weren't.
32:26 EUFRÁSIA MENESES (MANA BI-RALI) When we, the women, went into the jungle and went with the FALINTIL guerrillas, in Dili or in the jungle, above all, we defended the right and the will of East Timor, that's why we, the women, joined the guerrillas in the armed resistance. In '72, I went into the health services, I don't know about what happened before, but in the guerrilla warfare, the medics taught us. But then many medics were either killed or captured...I stayed in the FALINTIL and when someone from the FALINTIL was injured or sick, I would treat their illness or their wounds during the years I was in the jungle.
33:32 DIANA ANDRINGA Circumstances also dictated the occasional greater prominence of the three fronts:the armed, the diplomatic or the clandestine front.
33:42 TAUR MATAN RUAK So, whether we like it or not, by organising the people according to the situation itself, it determines the way of reflecting on and understanding the process, and organising the people according to that process, that objective.
34:04 DIANA ANDRINGA The clandestine network, though less visible, was of greater importance. Without the popular support that it was built on, life would have been very much harder for those in the jungle who fought against occupation.
34:18 VIRGÍLIO SMITH In that organisation, we had a structure that ran from the centre of operations in Dili, through the districts and even to the villages. What we called "post boxes" were houses where people lived, but that would serve as storehouses for any type of support to the armed resistance. I'm talking about logistics, mail... We would send things to these houses and the couriers would collect them. And those responsible for these houses, who were called "boxes", would pass on the various articles for the guerrillas through couriers.
35:28 DIANA ANDRINGA Sometimes these clandestine houses hid more than guns or ammunition. They would shelter the leaders of the armed struggle. Konis Santana, one of those leaders, lived for years in three houses in the Ermera area, where he eventually died.
35:43 CAETANO XIMENES The late Konis Santana came into this region when he took his place as military commander, after the supreme leader, Xanana Gusmão, was captured.
35:56 FRANCISCO BABO First he came to my house, then he was transferred here, then to somewhere else. After he was here, we convinced brother Lima-Lima e Caetano and we put together a plan to build these hiding places...This is the bathroom.
36:34 ANTÓNIO DOS SANTOS (LIMA-LIMA) This is Konis Santana's and Pedro's room, they stayed here when things were normal as soon as we heard any other information, they would have to change hiding place.Every day we always listened to the enemy. Whenever there was some kind of information on the radio he had to leave here immediately.
37:11 CAETANO XIMENES The first time we met here in my house, he gave me the idea of building a hiding place for storing arms. After that, we planned to make this a hiding place for three months.I made this hiding place, not for myself, but for region four and for the good of East Timor.
37:40 ISABEL TRINDADE We agreed and we did this to safeguard his life, so that he might have lived until the present, that he might have lived to enjoy independence.But God called him and he had to leave us and we in this family, are all very sad....
37:59 DIANA ANDRINGA Matan Ruak, Konis's successor, also had several hiding places, like this one, in Manatuto.
38:10 AGOSTINHA SOARES He was here from the 7th of November '98 to the 13th of May '99. This was brother Matan Ruak's hiding place, not to stay in, to only be reserved in case of anything, not for us to stay in there, it was reserved for him alone. Only us, my parents, my children, knew that he we here with us. Not even our cousins or our neighbours knew that brother Matan Ruak was here. The children knew brother Matan Ruak was here but they did not know who brother Matan Ruak was.
39:08 DIANA ANDRINGA The Liberation Front received support from people everywhere and very often right under the occupiers' noses.
39:23 BISHOP MÁRIO BELO Xanana was everyone's idol, he was the one idol that some would even die for. Once he came to see me. I did not live far from the road, it was 20 or 30 metres from there...His arrival was a curious thing.He had set the time, seven o'clock in the afternoon, and in the meantime, two Indonesian officers wanted to come around on that very day, at that time. I got worried and I told them to tell the Commander that I was sick and to ask if they could come the next day. They said yes, so they only came the next day. Xanana was in the dining room here. The living room was on one side and Xanana was on the other side, in the same house. I spoke with them for an hour, and in the meantime, since it was already night time, around eight o'clock, Xanana, who usually goes to bed early, was already asleep when I came out.
40:44 DIANA ANDRINGA A clandestine pilgrimage filmed by English journalists, to the tomb, in the Santa Cruz cemetery, of a young boy killed by Indonesian troops, finally projected the struggle of East Timor onto the world stage.
41:01 XANANA GUSMÃO If we look at Santa Cruz, it was a defeat, it was a loss of personnel. But if we see the struggle as a whole, it was a qualitative balance, in terms of information and raising the awareness of the world leaders.
41:17 XIMENES BELO It was, undoubtedly, a victory, but I think about the young and the victims, and I regret that young people, hundreds of young people died, innocently losing their lives for this cause.
41:42 DIANA ANDRINGA One year after the massacre of Santa Cruz, Xanana Gusmão was arrested in Dili. Indonesia rejoiced prematurely, failing to understand that they had imported the war to their own territory. In fact, from the prison in Cipinang, Xanana continued to direct the diplomatic front, lead by Ramos Horta; the clandestine front, some of whose young members were imprisoned with him.He also continued to direct the armed front, through contacts, with Ma huno, Konis Santana and Taur Matan Ruak,who succeeded him.
42:10 JOÃO CÂMARA We transformed the prison to cater for our clandestine activities, to continue and maintain our communication with the outside, to keep the flame of our struggle of resistance... alive.
42:28 VIRGÍLIO SMITH We were convinced that his capture served more to...shorten the long process of the struggle, it was another step forward.
42:45 XANANA GUSMÃO We have witnessed many captures of many of our comrades. We learnt... how to change the situation from the inside. Those who had been captured would tactically accommodate the situation, they studied the situation and then supplied us with information, with ammunition. There was a greater potential for much more active participation than in the jungle.
43:38 JOÃO CÂMARA It was thanks to his detainment, that we, due to our activities in prison, made the world know of him, who Xanana really was. through correspondence, through communication with the outside, our liberation finally came.
44:06 DIANA ANDRINGA In Cipinang prison, where he wrote poetry, painted, developed his love of photography and played football with the guards, Xanana remained patient. His solid knowledge of the Timorese made him believe that victory was certain. His pragmatism lead him to recommend moderation to convince the Indonesians to accept a referendum which he knew would result in independence.
44:33 VIRGÍLIO SMITH I still remember, one time when they were sort of counting numbers, by district and sub-district, to find out how many people supported autonomy, and of course as the administrators of the posts, the people who worked at the posts and the Councils were our people working there, they would make up numbers: autonomy 90%, pro-independence 20%. The Indonesians were all satisfied that they would win with all that percentage, of course they would win...
45:53 MOISÉS DOS SANTOS That very night I telephoned Xanana to ask him...These guys are ordering me to make a statement to bring all the people from Lauhata, to this organisation of Besi Mera Putih. When I phoned Xanana, he told me: do it the way they want, they are in charge, let their will be done. So in the morning, I made the statement.
45:53 DIANA ANDRINGA When, finally, Xanana was freed, unofficially he was already the Timorese president. But during the elections, he hesitated over his candidacy until the end. During the campaign he explained to the people, district by district, that the fight was not over, and that it was necessary to build a true democracy and that they could count on him, as president, to listen to their complaints.Too many times, what starts as love for the people, degenerates into dictatorial attitudes. This is a risk that is flatly disregarded by those who know Xanana best.
46:33 VIRGÍLIO SMITH He taught us that with so many experiences that we can take from the other colonies, after they achieved their independence...The leaders of the liberation governments became presidents. But then after that, they also became greater dictators, more corrupt. And that was a nightmare. And that nightmare is hanging over Xanana and that is why he never wanted to be president.He never wanted to be president.
48:13 XANANA GUSMÃO I'm not immune, but I think that I'm sufficiently mature to face those problems. But also both the people of Indonesia and Timor, when they came to congratulate me after the elections asked me not to change. "Don't change what you've always been."
48:13 TAUR MATAN RUAK When you are faced with the concept of Democracy, you are implicitly faced with three things that nobody must forget. The first, is talking about Democracy as an abstract concept; the second is practising Democracy, which is something much more profound, which goes beyond talking, just talking, already actually practising it; third, defending Democracy. All very different things...
48:45 XIMENES BELO Well, Xanana has been in the jungle, and then in prison. He is a very sensitive person, very sensitive to suffering, and also very humble, so...He overtook us all, in this field of reconciliation, wanting to forget and embrace everyone...And so... praised be God for those qualities Xanana has.
49:14 XANANA GUSMÃO As president, in the next 5 years, I will continually meet with the population and I will continue to say: I don't want to be president. You elected me president and I am here as such, but remember that I don't want to be president. This is also to tell them: You didn't want to be president...Don't forget to carry on being what you have always been.
49:46 DIANA ANDRINGA The warrior has won the long fight for liberation. Now, there is the country to build. A poor country, used to dependency, divided between an older generation, educated in Tetum and Portuguese, and the younger generation, schooled in Indonesian Bahasa. A country with a shortage of doctors, basic sanitation, and infrastructure; where agriculture and cattle breeding have been deeply affected by war, and where industry is rudimentary; where violence has set Timorese against Timorese, with overtones of the occupier's conspiracies.
50:28 BISHOP BASÍLIO NASCIMENTO In this phase, Timor will depend fundamentally on external help. So long as this help is not lacking and so long as our governors have the capacity to open up ways, to give directions and at the same time, be able to manage, as much as possible, the administration, I think Timor will take time, without a doubt, but it will rebuild itself.
51:03 TAUR MATAN RUAK In reality our fight is not over yet, it will continue.
51:09 DIANA ANDRINGA What is important in rebuilding East Timor, more than the infrastructure, is to overcome the hate and mistrust. It seems impossible since there was so much violence.
51:21 XANANA GUSMÃO The violence was heavy. In these 5 years, I'm going to try to get rid of the ghost of the violence that may still be here, and I believe that these people want their own good, and this is what they fought for.
51:38 BASÍLIO NASCIMENTO Timorese psychology is a bit peculiar, I think all people have this notion. If the one who did wrong takes the first step, the one harmed will weep with him.
51:55 MOISÉS DOS SANTOS That afternoon, the militia man was still in Atambua, and when reconciliation came,he hugged me and cried, and I even said to the guy: "You are Timorese and I don't hold a grudge against you." And I even hugged the guy.
52:09 MÁRIO ALVES CAEIRR I would be happy if those outside Timor were to return.
52:16 BISHOP MÁRIO BELO They are all sick of the fighting, and more or less everyone wants to rest and live in peace, to forget the past and take advantage to rebuild the future.
52:30 DIANA ANDRINGA A problem in countries that have been through lengthy wars, is reintegrating former fighters. In Timor, this is also a cause of some concern.
52:40 XIMENES BELO We hoped this factor, where the FALINTIL marched in protest on the 20th, would end there, but they have already come to me, since then, with more demands because of their rights, their priviledges.
52:55 XANANA GUSMÃO As far as I'm concerned, the best solution for all the social problems, is to offer people job opportunities
53:05 DIANA ANDRINGA Children like Pedro Unamet Rodrigues, born in the UNAMET headquarters during an outburst of violence in 1999, expect of Xanana, of the country's leaders, progress and true independence.These children's dreams, can only become possible now.
53:28 PEDRO UNAMED’S MOTHER And all of a sudden, he was born, in the middle of all the shots, without difficulty. But I never believed he would survive. I always thought, after the birth, the militia could arrive at any moment and cut us to pieces.
53:46 PEDRO UNAMED’S FATHER The foreigner who delivered him was called Pedro. With God's help, I will put him through studies so he can become a doctor too.
54:00 XANANA GUSMÃO My dream for Timor...?A green country, with a lot of water, many flowers; each family with a house; the children playing in the gardens, schools nearby, good sanitation, the elderly being looked after, roads to tend to the population's needs, not enormous, not beautiful motorways, but enough of everything that's necessary. The minimum necessary so that people, in each and every home, smile every morning, and so that at night, they don't have... nightmares.
54:58 XIMENES BELO Well, my dream is more down to earth. I want Timor to be a Switzerland or a Singapore or Burnai-dar-el-Salem.
55:08 TAUR MATAN RUAK If paradise exists, we want to turn Timor into a paradise, a real earthly paradise.
55:23 VIRGÍLIO SMITH A lot of work, a lot of effort, and a lot of using your head.
55:29 MÁRIO CARRASCALÃO I think the leaders have to honour the blood that was shed here in Timor.
55:43 DIANA ANDRINGA Apart from taking photographs, you also said you wanted to visit the places of fighting and honour the fallen...Which battlefields marked you most?
55:56 XANANA GUSMÃO So many...But the one that marked me most was in Aitana in September '81.. It was terrible! And I am still inviting you, one day when I go there, you will come with me. I can't say it will be in these next five years, but...This won't affect my decision to, one day, do exactly that...
57:55 ENDS