Q 00:01 Omar Sharif, thank you very much and welcome.
A Its a pleasure. Q 00:05 To start with guess, coming back to movies if you like, why did you stop making movies? A 00:10 Look, I stopped making movies because for the last 25 years Ive been making a lot of rubbish, because I was in debt all the time. I you know, I I used to gamble quite a bit, and then I was always broke. I was always one film behind my debts and so at some point you know, I had to work all the time, support my family and myself, and and all my expensive tastes. And then I decided it became ridiculous at some point. It got to the state where the stage where my own grandchildren used to make fun of my films, which is very serious. 00:44 Q What did they say to you? A 00:45 They used to say, th-the previous one was terrible, grandfather, but this was is even worse. So I decided it was time to stop and keep some dignity, specially vis a vis my grandchildren. And so I decided to wait for something decent to come, something that Id like, that Id feel enthusiastic about. And then this little story was sent to me.
01:15 I found it very charming and beautiful and kind and gentle,
01:37 and I thought also it it was befitting for me as a well known and and beloved Arab personality to um to make a statement about you know, the relationship between the Arabs and the Jews with all the stuff thats happening and the violence and all, to say that it is possible to live together, to love each other its not impossible. 02:00 Q 02:10 What was it about the character, I guess, that appealed to you most? A 02:12 Well, it its the whole thing. I mean, its the relationship between the old man and the child. Its about two lonely people. This man has had a grocery for maybe 50 years in the same street its a Jewish street and it its hes a strange person, because he sits there and he only exists when the boy walks in. He doesnt talk to the other customers
The fact that the boy is Jewish and the man is Muslim would be an irrelevant thing to the film. It the film is not concerned with that problem at all in itself, the story. 02:47 It if the Jews and the if the Israelis and the and the Palestinians had made peace already, it would be totally irrelevant, the whole thing. 02:57 But where its relevant, its because there is all that conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, because eh other conflicts between Islam now and the rest of the world. 03:07 We are going towards a very dangerous people, because we are cruising ahead towards a real war of the s- of of cultures and civilisations and religion
03:17 and and the powerful western countries always being on the side of Israel against the Palestinian. Im not saying that the Th- you should first of all, before they consult the Palestinian and the Jewish problem, you have to get rid of both Sharon and Arafat must go. 03:34 These are two incompatible people. Theyve hated each other for ages; theyre not going to start loving each other now. Theyre not going to make deals together. Thats for sure. 03:44 Q 03:35 Do you believe that with A- with A- with American bankrolling effectively Israel, the Arab world effectively backing the Palestinians, is there a real way out of this? A 03:52 Right now, there isnt. I dont have any optimism about this, nor in my lifetime, nor in my sons lifetime. Im hoping that in my grandchildrens lifetime there will be peace. Q 04:02 Y-y-youve looked very closely over your life at the Middle Eastern politics Why do you think the region is so riven with conflict? A 04:09 Well, because I dont understand that the West doesnt understand up til now, Islam. I dont understand that countries which are advanced like the United States, France, whatever, who have people who have been to greatest universities, to have been to Oxford and who learn about Islamism and all that, have not yet understood that the Arabs are tribal people. 04:31 There will never be democracy in Arab countries. There will not be democracy. And that is not something bad. Democracy is not the the panacea of th- of all the best things in the world. It depends. If people have some education to to be able to govern themselves, to have knowledge th-the whole thing starts, eh eh democracy starts with education. 04:56 You cannot be democratic when you are ignorant and illiterate. 05:00 Q 05:01 A-are you saying thats because the level of education in the Middle East is not generally then up to the level where people are ready for democracy? A 05:05 Of course its not, and they are poor. They are they are not ready, th- because theyre not educated, and they have deep-rooted tribal sense. A deep-rooted tribal sense. I-Iraq is f- eh you have so many sects in Iraq. Even the Shiites are divided into the followers of Bani-Sadr , the followers of th- Three there are 3 or 4 big Imams for Shiites and who disagree with each other. The Sunnis have differences between each other; then we have all the Kurds, and the Kurds fight each other. You have two leaders, Kurdish leaders. They are tribes too. 05:42 So how you want to come and say we are going to make democracy in this country. What presumptuous, stupid idea. 05:50 Whoever had this idea? That was not the idea of the world. The idea of the world was to make a war and they chose the easiest place that they could beat. 05:59 They why didnt they go and fight Korea or or Iran, which is a much more dangerous place. And the most dangerous place of all is Pakistan, because Pakistan, one day it has already the nuclear arsenal. 06:12 At least half the army are Islamists, and they will overthrow Musharraf one day, and they will then have the atomic bombs at their disposal. And then they will use and then they will the first thing they will do, they will give some to bin Laden because these tribal people are friends of bin Laden in a certain part of Pakistan where bin Laden is hiding. 06:33
Q: In tribal areas yeah.
A:Youll never find him there. Q 06:37 In terms of France and and the message about Jews and Muslims from the movie. There does seem to be an increase at the moment in these anti-Semitic attacks in France; theres the debate over whether to ban by law the Muslim headscarf whats happening in France? A I think its rather childish. 06:52
What will happen when is that there will be a burst of many Islamic schools in France. You will not be able to stop that because they will get money from the rich countries when they will hear about this that the French threw them threw all the girls out of the schools because theyre wearing a headscarf, theyre going to make private Muslim schools for Muslims. 07:16 And then it becomes a problem. It will become a much worse problem, because now they will be it will be they will divided. 07:22 There will be no chance of integration anymore.
Q. 07:25 Born a Catholic, converted to Islam at one point, I mean, what are your beliefs now? A 07:30 I have none that I can prove. I I I believe in everything and in nothing. I dont disbelieve in anything, I mean, everything is possible. As far as my brain tells me I dont believe, because I believe that God is justice. 07:49 The first thing that I was taught at Catechism, was that God is justice, and I dont see justice in the world. I see terrible injustice. 08:00 A 08:01 I saw my mother when on her death bed she just died 4 years ago she was a great believer, and I sat next to her 15 days where she suffered terribly before she died, and I saw what relief she got from believing, from calling the Virgin Mary, from calling Jesus Christ to her help, from calling St Anthony of Padua who was her saint, favourite saint. It relieved her pain, and I used to think what shall I say on my deathbed? Who shall I call for help? And I decided that I would call my mother for help. Thats what I Id say mother, come and get me, wherever you are. 08:39 Q 08:40 The great passions, the big passions of your life, ah the gambling A 08:45 I never had a passion, nor for gambling, nor for anything else. Horses a little bit. And that was the only passion and my work. Q 08:53 What was it I guess that attracted you to the gambling? A 08:55 Boredom. I I was a lonely man living out of suitcases in hotels, and when you arrive in a new place and you dont know anyone, the only place where you can go eh if youre a well known person, to have dinner alone, is a casino. 09:11 You go to casino, you have dinner by yourself, no one criticises you and then you play a little bit to give yourself some emotion, to to to fight the boredom of being by yourself. 09:22 Get some excitement. Thats all.
Q 09:25 Have you found yourself lonely? I mean, youve been separated for what, 40 years now, and youve lived in the hotel, and ??? A 09:30 35 years. Q 09:32 35 years. A 09:34 Yes, ah sometimes Im lonely and sometimes Im not. If I was profoundly lonely, if if it bothered me, loneliness, I wouldnt be lonely. I could have a girl I could have a woman with me, I could have a companion if I wanted. I wouldnt want someone to come and interfere with my my relationship with my friends, and my my which wine she wants eh as opposed to which one I want. Im happy. 10:00 Q 10:00 Youre now almost 72, what is important to you now, in life? A 10:05 My family. I have not given I think enough time to my family because I was working a lot and travelling. I never worked out of a base. So my family is not my priority, spend as much time as possible with them, and if a good part comes along to give it all my attention. CUT TO Q 10:24 Omar Sharif, thank you very much for talking with Foreign Correspondent. A Thank you. OMAR SHARIF Clips from Monsieur Ibrahim Reporter: Evan Williams
Camera: John Benes
Editor: Garth Thomas
Producer: Mary Ann Jolley
A Its a pleasure. Q 00:05 To start with guess, coming back to movies if you like, why did you stop making movies? A 00:10 Look, I stopped making movies because for the last 25 years Ive been making a lot of rubbish, because I was in debt all the time. I you know, I I used to gamble quite a bit, and then I was always broke. I was always one film behind my debts and so at some point you know, I had to work all the time, support my family and myself, and and all my expensive tastes. And then I decided it became ridiculous at some point. It got to the state where the stage where my own grandchildren used to make fun of my films, which is very serious. 00:44 Q What did they say to you? A 00:45 They used to say, th-the previous one was terrible, grandfather, but this was is even worse. So I decided it was time to stop and keep some dignity, specially vis a vis my grandchildren. And so I decided to wait for something decent to come, something that Id like, that Id feel enthusiastic about. And then this little story was sent to me.
01:15 I found it very charming and beautiful and kind and gentle,
01:37 and I thought also it it was befitting for me as a well known and and beloved Arab personality to um to make a statement about you know, the relationship between the Arabs and the Jews with all the stuff thats happening and the violence and all, to say that it is possible to live together, to love each other its not impossible. 02:00 Q 02:10 What was it about the character, I guess, that appealed to you most? A 02:12 Well, it its the whole thing. I mean, its the relationship between the old man and the child. Its about two lonely people. This man has had a grocery for maybe 50 years in the same street its a Jewish street and it its hes a strange person, because he sits there and he only exists when the boy walks in. He doesnt talk to the other customers
The fact that the boy is Jewish and the man is Muslim would be an irrelevant thing to the film. It the film is not concerned with that problem at all in itself, the story. 02:47 It if the Jews and the if the Israelis and the and the Palestinians had made peace already, it would be totally irrelevant, the whole thing. 02:57 But where its relevant, its because there is all that conflict between Israelis and Palestinians, because eh other conflicts between Islam now and the rest of the world. 03:07 We are going towards a very dangerous people, because we are cruising ahead towards a real war of the s- of of cultures and civilisations and religion
03:17 and and the powerful western countries always being on the side of Israel against the Palestinian. Im not saying that the Th- you should first of all, before they consult the Palestinian and the Jewish problem, you have to get rid of both Sharon and Arafat must go. 03:34 These are two incompatible people. Theyve hated each other for ages; theyre not going to start loving each other now. Theyre not going to make deals together. Thats for sure. 03:44 Q 03:35 Do you believe that with A- with A- with American bankrolling effectively Israel, the Arab world effectively backing the Palestinians, is there a real way out of this? A 03:52 Right now, there isnt. I dont have any optimism about this, nor in my lifetime, nor in my sons lifetime. Im hoping that in my grandchildrens lifetime there will be peace. Q 04:02 Y-y-youve looked very closely over your life at the Middle Eastern politics Why do you think the region is so riven with conflict? A 04:09 Well, because I dont understand that the West doesnt understand up til now, Islam. I dont understand that countries which are advanced like the United States, France, whatever, who have people who have been to greatest universities, to have been to Oxford and who learn about Islamism and all that, have not yet understood that the Arabs are tribal people. 04:31 There will never be democracy in Arab countries. There will not be democracy. And that is not something bad. Democracy is not the the panacea of th- of all the best things in the world. It depends. If people have some education to to be able to govern themselves, to have knowledge th-the whole thing starts, eh eh democracy starts with education. 04:56 You cannot be democratic when you are ignorant and illiterate. 05:00 Q 05:01 A-are you saying thats because the level of education in the Middle East is not generally then up to the level where people are ready for democracy? A 05:05 Of course its not, and they are poor. They are they are not ready, th- because theyre not educated, and they have deep-rooted tribal sense. A deep-rooted tribal sense. I-Iraq is f- eh you have so many sects in Iraq. Even the Shiites are divided into the followers of Bani-Sadr , the followers of th- Three there are 3 or 4 big Imams for Shiites and who disagree with each other. The Sunnis have differences between each other; then we have all the Kurds, and the Kurds fight each other. You have two leaders, Kurdish leaders. They are tribes too. 05:42 So how you want to come and say we are going to make democracy in this country. What presumptuous, stupid idea. 05:50 Whoever had this idea? That was not the idea of the world. The idea of the world was to make a war and they chose the easiest place that they could beat. 05:59 They why didnt they go and fight Korea or or Iran, which is a much more dangerous place. And the most dangerous place of all is Pakistan, because Pakistan, one day it has already the nuclear arsenal. 06:12 At least half the army are Islamists, and they will overthrow Musharraf one day, and they will then have the atomic bombs at their disposal. And then they will use and then they will the first thing they will do, they will give some to bin Laden because these tribal people are friends of bin Laden in a certain part of Pakistan where bin Laden is hiding. 06:33
Q: In tribal areas yeah.
A:Youll never find him there. Q 06:37 In terms of France and and the message about Jews and Muslims from the movie. There does seem to be an increase at the moment in these anti-Semitic attacks in France; theres the debate over whether to ban by law the Muslim headscarf whats happening in France? A I think its rather childish. 06:52
What will happen when is that there will be a burst of many Islamic schools in France. You will not be able to stop that because they will get money from the rich countries when they will hear about this that the French threw them threw all the girls out of the schools because theyre wearing a headscarf, theyre going to make private Muslim schools for Muslims. 07:16 And then it becomes a problem. It will become a much worse problem, because now they will be it will be they will divided. 07:22 There will be no chance of integration anymore.
Q. 07:25 Born a Catholic, converted to Islam at one point, I mean, what are your beliefs now? A 07:30 I have none that I can prove. I I I believe in everything and in nothing. I dont disbelieve in anything, I mean, everything is possible. As far as my brain tells me I dont believe, because I believe that God is justice. 07:49 The first thing that I was taught at Catechism, was that God is justice, and I dont see justice in the world. I see terrible injustice. 08:00 A 08:01 I saw my mother when on her death bed she just died 4 years ago she was a great believer, and I sat next to her 15 days where she suffered terribly before she died, and I saw what relief she got from believing, from calling the Virgin Mary, from calling Jesus Christ to her help, from calling St Anthony of Padua who was her saint, favourite saint. It relieved her pain, and I used to think what shall I say on my deathbed? Who shall I call for help? And I decided that I would call my mother for help. Thats what I Id say mother, come and get me, wherever you are. 08:39 Q 08:40 The great passions, the big passions of your life, ah the gambling A 08:45 I never had a passion, nor for gambling, nor for anything else. Horses a little bit. And that was the only passion and my work. Q 08:53 What was it I guess that attracted you to the gambling? A 08:55 Boredom. I I was a lonely man living out of suitcases in hotels, and when you arrive in a new place and you dont know anyone, the only place where you can go eh if youre a well known person, to have dinner alone, is a casino. 09:11 You go to casino, you have dinner by yourself, no one criticises you and then you play a little bit to give yourself some emotion, to to to fight the boredom of being by yourself. 09:22 Get some excitement. Thats all.
Q 09:25 Have you found yourself lonely? I mean, youve been separated for what, 40 years now, and youve lived in the hotel, and ??? A 09:30 35 years. Q 09:32 35 years. A 09:34 Yes, ah sometimes Im lonely and sometimes Im not. If I was profoundly lonely, if if it bothered me, loneliness, I wouldnt be lonely. I could have a girl I could have a woman with me, I could have a companion if I wanted. I wouldnt want someone to come and interfere with my my relationship with my friends, and my my which wine she wants eh as opposed to which one I want. Im happy. 10:00 Q 10:00 Youre now almost 72, what is important to you now, in life? A 10:05 My family. I have not given I think enough time to my family because I was working a lot and travelling. I never worked out of a base. So my family is not my priority, spend as much time as possible with them, and if a good part comes along to give it all my attention. CUT TO Q 10:24 Omar Sharif, thank you very much for talking with Foreign Correspondent. A Thank you. OMAR SHARIF Clips from Monsieur Ibrahim Reporter: Evan Williams
Camera: John Benes
Editor: Garth Thomas
Producer: Mary Ann Jolley