REPORTER: David OShea
Although the official campaign period only began yesterday, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has been on the trail for weeks. He invited Dateline to join him on a whirlwind tour of Bali. Flying over volcanic Java, he tells me why he wants one of the world's most difficult jobs.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, INDONESIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to change Indonesia for the better, based on our knowledge, our experience, our understanding of the nature of the Indonesian problems.
His first stop is to the site of the memorial for the victims of the bomb blast that changed this island forever.
REPORTER: Why have you come here first?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: It is a good thing to be remembered - that combating terrorism is an unfinished agenda. And maintaining our security, protecting our people, is a must. So I have to remember on the sad day that we suffered a lot in terms of humanity and security.
Yudhoyono is clearly a consummate campaigner, as comfortable with the Hindu Balinese as with foreign tourists.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: We have to improve the security - you can go any time to Bali because it's a good place to see. Good luck, enjoy. Thank you.
REPORTER: Do you know who he is?
TOURIST: No, wouldn't have a clue, mate.
REPORTER: He's possibly the next president of Indonesia.....one of the main campaigners.
TOURIST: Oh, OK. He's nice - nice bloke. Cheers.
I asked him if he knew who you were? He said, "I wouldn't have a clue."
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: I do my best for them, because we need Bali more secure and I think good place to see by our brothers and sisters abroad. So we do our best, yeah.
Yudhoyono is a retired general with an impressive CV. He was top of his class at military academy and was educated at military colleges in the United States. He served on UN observer missions in Bosnia and Rwanda.
Like General Wiranto, his rival presidential candidate and in 1999 his commanding officer, Yudhoyono has skeletons in his closet. In 1976 he commanded the 305 Battalion in East Timor when the worst massacres following the invasion occurred. When I first met him he was chief of territorial affairs, in control of army units across the archipelago, including East Timor, still then under Indonesian control.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, MAY 1999: The formal attitude and policy of commanders of TNI is quite clear - that our main task is to maintain law and order in East Timor.
Unlike Wiranto, Yudhoyono was never tainted by the violence that followed the vote for independence. At the time, he was surprisingly candid about the relationship between the military and their murderous militia.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, MAY 1999: But I like to tell you that almost 24 years there is a good relation between the militia and the military and the police. I think the closeness is one of the reality now in East Timor but trust us that the TNI and the police will play a positive role in maintaining law and order.
Since retiring from active duty, he's served in the cabinets of both President Abdurrahman Wahid and as current president Megawati Sukarnoputri's chief security minister. He resigned a few weeks ago to concentrate on the big one - the presidency. At least here on the streets of Kuta, ordinary people seem to like him. But the big question is whether Indonesians are ready to elect a former army general as president.
Graffiti all around Jakarta is a reminder that this would have been unthinkable in the immediate aftermath of the Suharto years. But five years of civilian rule, with its economic stagnation and political turmoil, has seen widespread opposition to military rule die away. These days only the diehard activists are raising their voices against former generals like Wiranto and Yudhoyono. Yudhoyono is sensitive about his military past. As he and his running mate, Yusuf Kalla, registered with the Electoral Commission, he was keen to stress his democratic credentials.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): This morning, in my political declaration, I requested that the military and the police remain neutral and they have no say in political practice. In particular, in the selection of a president and vice-president.
Back in Bali, Yudhoyono has a dinner function to attend. 500 people were invited. Almost 800 showed up. And that's not counting the journalists. Many of these business leaders in the tourism industry want Indonesia's reputation as a new democracy to be preserved. But they also want the political and economic stability that they think only a former general can provide.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): And the meaning of firm politics is that we offer a solution as to how politics can become more democratic and human rights upheld while maintaining a stable environment.
The recurring themes in his campaign are peace, justice and prosperity. Earlier in the day, while pressing the flesh at a Balinese market, Yudhoyono told traders he would bring the security they need to prosper.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): What is it you feel now?
MAN, (Translation): Safety.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): What else?
MAN, (Translation): It's quiet now. It's safer and more settled. Things are better now.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): It's good that you are working now. Hopefully it will become even safer.
What exactly he has in mind to improve their daily lot is not yet clear. Policy details are thin on the ground.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: Are you listening - people want economy and also security. Both are important. We improve the security situations and with that kind of good security we could further enlarge the business activities and the economic development in this region.
Like election campaigns around the world, it's more about personality. On this front, he seems to be doing well.
REPORTER, (Translation): What about you? Have you heard of him?
WOMAN, (Translation): Yes. Even before he came here? Yes.
REPORTER, (Translation): What do you know about him?
WOMAN, (Translation): Only that he's good-looking.
REPORTER, (Translation): Isn't Wiranto handsome too?
WOMAN, (Translation): Yes. All the men are good-looking.
REPORTER, (Translation): Including me?
WOMAN, (Translation): Yes.
Yudhoyono's wife is the daughter of Sarwo Eddie, a notorious general under Suharto involved in the anti-communist pogroms of 1965. Mrs Yudhoyono seems ready enough to take on the role of the dutiful first lady.
REPORTER: Everyone says your husband's very good-looking, huh?
MRS. YUDHOYONO: Thank you. God willing.
REPORTER: That's why they say they'll vote for him?
Although Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has been an important ally in the American-led fight against Islamic terrorism, the war on terror is a sensitive issue in Muslim Indonesia. Yudhoyono's natural support base is secular and nationalist, but he needs to appeal to Muslim voters as well. In an interview about sectarian violence in Ambon and Poso two years ago when he was chief security minister, his defence of Laskar Jihad, the Islamic vigilantes who attacked and killed many Christians, raised a few eyebrows.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, JAN 2002: They also play roles in defending truth and justice that is expected by the Muslims in Indonesia.
Justice is a recurring theme in his presidential campaign. But as he's leaving Bali, I ask him about his stance on justice for the victims of the many instances of military excess in the past.
REPORTER: Would you be prepared to try former soldiers who have committed human rights abuses in the past?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: One thing to be understood by the world that legal process on soldiers, officers, who have committed a crime - at least, who are suspected of having committed crimes - are also done by our institutions, legal institutions, I mean. Say the ad hoc human rights tribunal for East Timor, the tribunal for Aceh and other cases in the past. And I think this is a good sign that we will continue this process, but, of course, we have to go to the supremacy of law. There is a machination, there is a procedure and cannot be interfered with by politics by any means.
The other difficult issue for the retired general is what to do with his former boss. 83-year-old Suharto, the 5-star general who came to power over the corpses of a million Indonesians is reportedly too sick to face court for his monumental plunder of Indonesia. But he wasn't too sick to take the long walk to vote in the recent parliamentary election that his former party won.
During his 32 years as president, he and his cronies stole between US$15 billion and US$35 billion. Most of these cronies survived his fall from grace and amongst the list of presidential candidates, most were integral players in maintaining his grip on power, including Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
REPORTER: You say the first priority is eradicating corruption. What's your position on the biggest corruptor of them all and his cronies?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: I respect the supremacy of law. And if there is enough evidence that someone is committed to corruption, then he must be brought to justice. It is quite clear. There will be no discriminations on that.
REPORTER: Of course, I'm talking about former president Suharto. What's your position on the allegations against him?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: I think the legal process is under way. And the problem is the medical report that Suharto is incapacitated and is not able to proceed with the legal process. But politically, actually, the legal process is under way and if he is found guilty, then he must be punished. But, of course, from the humanitarian point of view, the humanity point of view, from the political and social dimension, the people may think differently. For example, to give him a kind of amnesty. So I try to refute the ongoing process of the legal process on Suharto.
Despite reinventing himself as a democrat, if elected he is unlikely to rock the military establishment he emerged from. But then, perhaps, the military too would be less likely to work to destabilise his government, as they have with the past three civilian presidents. And what about his stance on the often problematic relationship with Australia?
REPORTER: How important is the relationship with Australia?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: Very important. I dedicated my time and energy in the past three years to normalise the existing relations between the two countries after the East Timor incident, because we are a close neighbour, we have to cooperate in many things, and I do believe that if our relationship is good, so we could offer some issues related to West Papua, for example, on East Timor, on illegal migrants, on it could be the issue of terrorism. We have succeeded in developing cooperation and combating terrorism, so post-Bali tragedy, and we have to maintain that kind of situation. So for me, we have to strengthen and to enlarge the framework of cooperation between Australia and Indonesia.
REPORTER: Thank you very much.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: You're welcome.
Although the official campaign period only began yesterday, Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has been on the trail for weeks. He invited Dateline to join him on a whirlwind tour of Bali. Flying over volcanic Java, he tells me why he wants one of the world's most difficult jobs.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, INDONESIAN PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I want to change Indonesia for the better, based on our knowledge, our experience, our understanding of the nature of the Indonesian problems.
His first stop is to the site of the memorial for the victims of the bomb blast that changed this island forever.
REPORTER: Why have you come here first?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: It is a good thing to be remembered - that combating terrorism is an unfinished agenda. And maintaining our security, protecting our people, is a must. So I have to remember on the sad day that we suffered a lot in terms of humanity and security.
Yudhoyono is clearly a consummate campaigner, as comfortable with the Hindu Balinese as with foreign tourists.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: We have to improve the security - you can go any time to Bali because it's a good place to see. Good luck, enjoy. Thank you.
REPORTER: Do you know who he is?
TOURIST: No, wouldn't have a clue, mate.
REPORTER: He's possibly the next president of Indonesia.....one of the main campaigners.
TOURIST: Oh, OK. He's nice - nice bloke. Cheers.
I asked him if he knew who you were? He said, "I wouldn't have a clue."
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: I do my best for them, because we need Bali more secure and I think good place to see by our brothers and sisters abroad. So we do our best, yeah.
Yudhoyono is a retired general with an impressive CV. He was top of his class at military academy and was educated at military colleges in the United States. He served on UN observer missions in Bosnia and Rwanda.
Like General Wiranto, his rival presidential candidate and in 1999 his commanding officer, Yudhoyono has skeletons in his closet. In 1976 he commanded the 305 Battalion in East Timor when the worst massacres following the invasion occurred. When I first met him he was chief of territorial affairs, in control of army units across the archipelago, including East Timor, still then under Indonesian control.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, MAY 1999: The formal attitude and policy of commanders of TNI is quite clear - that our main task is to maintain law and order in East Timor.
Unlike Wiranto, Yudhoyono was never tainted by the violence that followed the vote for independence. At the time, he was surprisingly candid about the relationship between the military and their murderous militia.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, MAY 1999: But I like to tell you that almost 24 years there is a good relation between the militia and the military and the police. I think the closeness is one of the reality now in East Timor but trust us that the TNI and the police will play a positive role in maintaining law and order.
Since retiring from active duty, he's served in the cabinets of both President Abdurrahman Wahid and as current president Megawati Sukarnoputri's chief security minister. He resigned a few weeks ago to concentrate on the big one - the presidency. At least here on the streets of Kuta, ordinary people seem to like him. But the big question is whether Indonesians are ready to elect a former army general as president.
Graffiti all around Jakarta is a reminder that this would have been unthinkable in the immediate aftermath of the Suharto years. But five years of civilian rule, with its economic stagnation and political turmoil, has seen widespread opposition to military rule die away. These days only the diehard activists are raising their voices against former generals like Wiranto and Yudhoyono. Yudhoyono is sensitive about his military past. As he and his running mate, Yusuf Kalla, registered with the Electoral Commission, he was keen to stress his democratic credentials.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): This morning, in my political declaration, I requested that the military and the police remain neutral and they have no say in political practice. In particular, in the selection of a president and vice-president.
Back in Bali, Yudhoyono has a dinner function to attend. 500 people were invited. Almost 800 showed up. And that's not counting the journalists. Many of these business leaders in the tourism industry want Indonesia's reputation as a new democracy to be preserved. But they also want the political and economic stability that they think only a former general can provide.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): And the meaning of firm politics is that we offer a solution as to how politics can become more democratic and human rights upheld while maintaining a stable environment.
The recurring themes in his campaign are peace, justice and prosperity. Earlier in the day, while pressing the flesh at a Balinese market, Yudhoyono told traders he would bring the security they need to prosper.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): What is it you feel now?
MAN, (Translation): Safety.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): What else?
MAN, (Translation): It's quiet now. It's safer and more settled. Things are better now.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, (Translation): It's good that you are working now. Hopefully it will become even safer.
What exactly he has in mind to improve their daily lot is not yet clear. Policy details are thin on the ground.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: Are you listening - people want economy and also security. Both are important. We improve the security situations and with that kind of good security we could further enlarge the business activities and the economic development in this region.
Like election campaigns around the world, it's more about personality. On this front, he seems to be doing well.
REPORTER, (Translation): What about you? Have you heard of him?
WOMAN, (Translation): Yes. Even before he came here? Yes.
REPORTER, (Translation): What do you know about him?
WOMAN, (Translation): Only that he's good-looking.
REPORTER, (Translation): Isn't Wiranto handsome too?
WOMAN, (Translation): Yes. All the men are good-looking.
REPORTER, (Translation): Including me?
WOMAN, (Translation): Yes.
Yudhoyono's wife is the daughter of Sarwo Eddie, a notorious general under Suharto involved in the anti-communist pogroms of 1965. Mrs Yudhoyono seems ready enough to take on the role of the dutiful first lady.
REPORTER: Everyone says your husband's very good-looking, huh?
MRS. YUDHOYONO: Thank you. God willing.
REPORTER: That's why they say they'll vote for him?
Although Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono has been an important ally in the American-led fight against Islamic terrorism, the war on terror is a sensitive issue in Muslim Indonesia. Yudhoyono's natural support base is secular and nationalist, but he needs to appeal to Muslim voters as well. In an interview about sectarian violence in Ambon and Poso two years ago when he was chief security minister, his defence of Laskar Jihad, the Islamic vigilantes who attacked and killed many Christians, raised a few eyebrows.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO, JAN 2002: They also play roles in defending truth and justice that is expected by the Muslims in Indonesia.
Justice is a recurring theme in his presidential campaign. But as he's leaving Bali, I ask him about his stance on justice for the victims of the many instances of military excess in the past.
REPORTER: Would you be prepared to try former soldiers who have committed human rights abuses in the past?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: One thing to be understood by the world that legal process on soldiers, officers, who have committed a crime - at least, who are suspected of having committed crimes - are also done by our institutions, legal institutions, I mean. Say the ad hoc human rights tribunal for East Timor, the tribunal for Aceh and other cases in the past. And I think this is a good sign that we will continue this process, but, of course, we have to go to the supremacy of law. There is a machination, there is a procedure and cannot be interfered with by politics by any means.
The other difficult issue for the retired general is what to do with his former boss. 83-year-old Suharto, the 5-star general who came to power over the corpses of a million Indonesians is reportedly too sick to face court for his monumental plunder of Indonesia. But he wasn't too sick to take the long walk to vote in the recent parliamentary election that his former party won.
During his 32 years as president, he and his cronies stole between US$15 billion and US$35 billion. Most of these cronies survived his fall from grace and amongst the list of presidential candidates, most were integral players in maintaining his grip on power, including Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
REPORTER: You say the first priority is eradicating corruption. What's your position on the biggest corruptor of them all and his cronies?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: I respect the supremacy of law. And if there is enough evidence that someone is committed to corruption, then he must be brought to justice. It is quite clear. There will be no discriminations on that.
REPORTER: Of course, I'm talking about former president Suharto. What's your position on the allegations against him?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: I think the legal process is under way. And the problem is the medical report that Suharto is incapacitated and is not able to proceed with the legal process. But politically, actually, the legal process is under way and if he is found guilty, then he must be punished. But, of course, from the humanitarian point of view, the humanity point of view, from the political and social dimension, the people may think differently. For example, to give him a kind of amnesty. So I try to refute the ongoing process of the legal process on Suharto.
Despite reinventing himself as a democrat, if elected he is unlikely to rock the military establishment he emerged from. But then, perhaps, the military too would be less likely to work to destabilise his government, as they have with the past three civilian presidents. And what about his stance on the often problematic relationship with Australia?
REPORTER: How important is the relationship with Australia?
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: Very important. I dedicated my time and energy in the past three years to normalise the existing relations between the two countries after the East Timor incident, because we are a close neighbour, we have to cooperate in many things, and I do believe that if our relationship is good, so we could offer some issues related to West Papua, for example, on East Timor, on illegal migrants, on it could be the issue of terrorism. We have succeeded in developing cooperation and combating terrorism, so post-Bali tragedy, and we have to maintain that kind of situation. So for me, we have to strengthen and to enlarge the framework of cooperation between Australia and Indonesia.
REPORTER: Thank you very much.
SUSILO BAMBANG YUDHOYONO: You're welcome.