NARR
A group of young Ugandan men on a night out by the Nile in Southern Sudan. They’re in touch with the latest trends, aren’t short of cash and seem like any other guys their age – but they are not.
Captain Sunday Lord’s Resistance Army
The peace is going to come to our country, to our country. God bless all peoples in all the worlds to know about that. Thank you.
NARR
But over the last 20 years few have been that optimistic. These men are senior commanders in the Lord’s Resistance Army. Abducted as children more than twelve years ago and with little formal schooling, they’ve committed numerous atrocities. Murders, kidnappings and mutilations. And all in the name of their messianic leader, Joseph Kony.
Captain Sunday
(Is Joseph Kony a God) Not God, not God, but he has a spirit (How many) Three (Is he like a prophet?) Yes yes (he cannot die) no no…
NARR
Joseph Kony’s war with President Museveni’s Ugandan Government has seen more than twenty five thousand people killed and two million displaced.Everybody is affected. A third of all teenage boys in Northern Uganda have been kidnapped by Kony’s rebels. This is the aftermath of a battle between Ugandan forces and the LRA. Most of the dead are barely into their teens.
The soldiers are obsessed with what the world says about them and their leader Joseph Kony. To me, they seemed complex characters. On the one hand, aggressive fighters trained to obey and on the other damaged by years apart from their families.
Lt Col Ochama Ray Lord’s Resistance Army
They abducted some children from the school, including me
My mind was thinking of my people at home and I say why don’t I escape, I tried several times but was not easy,
They can punish you badly, cane you badly, if you are unlucky you may lose your life
It is painful to talk about my family, I miss them, I think a lot about them my family, my child, right now, I am making a struggle not just for my need but for the entire suffering of the people of Northern Uganda.
NARR
It’s taken me 8 months to get this far. 8 months of negotiations, promises and disappointments. For the last 10 days I’ve been waiting in Juba, the capital of Southern Sudan. Waiting for a phone call saying that I can meet Joseph Kony. I couldn’t work out if it was African bureaucracy or incompetence.
Sunday was my contact and the LRA’s man in Juba. Abducted by Kony’s men at the age of 7, and with no living relatives, the LRA are his family.
SUNDAY
(SF: Are the plans going well) Yes, they are going well.
NARR
He’s constantly on his satellite phone trying to fix a meeting between Kony’s fighters in the bush and Sudanese officials.
Finally, some progress. We were summoned to see the Vice President of Southern Sudan. He also wanted to meet Kony. As we waited outside his office our LRA minders were totally at ease.
They’re well known to Reik Machar - a former warlord and bush fighter.
Riek
You were sick last time
NARR
Despite international criticism, Machar has given the LRA trucks of food and 20 thousand dollars. He’s leading efforts to broker an end to the conflict.
VP SYNC: £ 20,000 – oh, they’ re going to buy arms
We are credible – what we do we are transparent – ok thank you very much
NARR
We were finally on our way. Dozens of Sudanese troops joined us on the journey to meet Kony – I was told he was just over the border in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The Southern Sudanese Vice President was optimistic about the meeting.
VP on phone
“We believe we are making a break through, we want a backup, we are the mediators we are the facilitators. I understand yesterday even Mbeki also backed our position”
NARR
After a 40 minute flight, a convoy of seven cars takes me on a journey to the still undisclosed meeting point. It’s not long before we grind to a halt. While the trucks were dug out, I seized an opportunity with the Vice President.
Riek MacharVice President, Southern Sudan
The second time to meet Joseph Kony. What we are doing is an attempt to bring about peace in northern Ugandan. If we can bring about a peaceful settlement to the conflict the legal process can be done later. You can not carry out a legal process in a situation where there is war.
NARR
After 2 days of travelling by road, a potential meeting place is found. We wait. And then, out of the jungle, Lords Resistance Army soldiers.
Their leader – Joseph Kony’s number 2, Vincent Otti.
VP
‘how many security do u want us to take’
'So we can go’
NARR
As we walked through the bush, I finally believed that I was going to meet Joseph Kony.
And there he was. The man I’d been chasing for a year. The man who’s eluded the Uganda government for 20 years. Of the handful of images of Kony, the most famous is of a man in his twenties with dreadlocks - He’s now in his 40’s. But his hatred for the Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni hasn’t changed.
General Joseph Kony Leader, Lord’s Resistance Army
You are the first journalist to come to me in the bush like this. So with me I am here. You have now seen me, I am a human being like you. I am also, I have eye, I have brain. I have, I wear clothes also.
Q: Describe yourself to me, tell me who you are
Kony
I am a military PERSON who is fighting in Uganda. I am a freedom fighter who is fighting for freedom in Uganda. But I am not a terrorist.
NARR
But the manner used to achieve these political aims has been horrific. Thousands of child fighters and civilians have been slaughtered. Hacking off lips, ears and limbs are just some of methods used by this ruthless rebel group.
Q: You have been accused of terrible crimes – lips, ears cut off.
Kony
That one is not true, that is propaganda which Museveni made, (Q: I’ve seen the photos) Yes, yes that is propaganda which Museveni made. Let me tell you clear, that thing was happening in Uganda. Museveni went in village and he cut ear of the people, telling the people that that thing was done by LRA. This is not true. I cannot cut the ear of my brother, I cannot kill the eye of my brother. I cannot kill my brother, that is not true.
Q: Are you saying the LRA have never been involved in any abductions, any rapes, any mutilations?
Kony
Yes, LRA has never been involved in that part.
NARR
Most of Kony’s fighters have been with him since childhood, since the time they were abducted from villages in Northern Uganda. War is the only life they have known. Kony has been accused of kidnapping, indoctrinating and imprisoning ten’s of thousands of children in his army. While I was there I didn’t see any young children but some told me they were fifteen.
General Joseph Kony Leader, Lord’s Resistance Army
I did not abducted anybody there. Some civilian there, they are volunteer themselves to come and join me so that we stay together, to protect their life, to defend theirselves here. Do you think that children can afford that condition of war? They will not! That is propaganda which Museveni is playing. I don’t have any children here
NARR
But that’s not the line he later takes with his troops. “If I were president all children would carry a gun” - he tells them. “to me, fighting is as normal as ironing a shirt”
20 years of war have involved atrocities on both sides – the LRA and the Ugandan government. In a war fought mainly in the bush, out of sight of cameras, the truth is hard to establish.
Riek Machar has taken on the role of bringing both sides together for peace talks. But as with previous attempts, it’s going to be extremely complicated.
Q: I’m still unclear, exactly what are your objectives? What are you really fighting for?
Kony
We want the people of Uganda to be free, we want the people of Uganda. Let me say, we are fighting for democracy, we want people to be a total democracy - free. We should be free to elect our leader. We want our leader to be elected, elected leader, but not a movement like the one of Museveni
NARR
As we ate together it struck me that Africa’s most wanted man - who’s never been interviewed by a journalist – seemed guilt free, more interested in the record of other war criminals. Joseph Kony and four of his most senior commanders are the first people to have arrest warrants issued by the International Criminal Court. Kony alone is accused of 33 counts of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
General Joseph Kony Leader, Lord’s Resistance Army
I am not guilty. I am not guilty. I am not guilty. At this time it is very difficult to do, but when we talk this peace talk and that peace talk and everything is finished well, we go and talk. We go and talk. We go and judge that case to show that I am not found guilty. Yes.
OTTI SYNC
This is the emblem of the Lords Resistance Army.
In the middle of the heart is the 10 commandments of God. We are fighting to defend 10 commandment of god, people are not following the 10 commandment of God.
NARR
Kony is accused of controlling his forces with a mixture of distorted Christianity and brutality. Their ideology, they say, comes from the bible.
Q Has God told you to fight this war?
Lt General Vincent Otti Lord’s Resistance Army
No, no, no, no. It is not like that. God did not tell me to fight this war, no
Q How many spirits speak to you?
Lt General Vincent Otti Lord’s Resistance Army
Very many. I don’t know the number but they speak to me. They talk to me. You know, we are guerrilla. We are rebel. We don’t have medicine. But with the help of spirit they will tell to us, you Mr. Joseph, go and take this thing and that thing.
NARR
Joseph Kony has been elusive for so many years that he’s achieved almost mythical status, both among his supporters and his enemies. The fact that he allowed me to spend time with him may be significant. He may be preparing to come out of the jungle and engage in talks with the Ugandan government. But it wouldn’t surprisie me if he slipped back into the bush never to be seen again.
A group of young Ugandan men on a night out by the Nile in Southern Sudan. They’re in touch with the latest trends, aren’t short of cash and seem like any other guys their age – but they are not.
Captain Sunday Lord’s Resistance Army
The peace is going to come to our country, to our country. God bless all peoples in all the worlds to know about that. Thank you.
NARR
But over the last 20 years few have been that optimistic. These men are senior commanders in the Lord’s Resistance Army. Abducted as children more than twelve years ago and with little formal schooling, they’ve committed numerous atrocities. Murders, kidnappings and mutilations. And all in the name of their messianic leader, Joseph Kony.
Captain Sunday
(Is Joseph Kony a God) Not God, not God, but he has a spirit (How many) Three (Is he like a prophet?) Yes yes (he cannot die) no no…
NARR
Joseph Kony’s war with President Museveni’s Ugandan Government has seen more than twenty five thousand people killed and two million displaced.Everybody is affected. A third of all teenage boys in Northern Uganda have been kidnapped by Kony’s rebels. This is the aftermath of a battle between Ugandan forces and the LRA. Most of the dead are barely into their teens.
The soldiers are obsessed with what the world says about them and their leader Joseph Kony. To me, they seemed complex characters. On the one hand, aggressive fighters trained to obey and on the other damaged by years apart from their families.
Lt Col Ochama Ray Lord’s Resistance Army
They abducted some children from the school, including me
My mind was thinking of my people at home and I say why don’t I escape, I tried several times but was not easy,
They can punish you badly, cane you badly, if you are unlucky you may lose your life
It is painful to talk about my family, I miss them, I think a lot about them my family, my child, right now, I am making a struggle not just for my need but for the entire suffering of the people of Northern Uganda.
NARR
It’s taken me 8 months to get this far. 8 months of negotiations, promises and disappointments. For the last 10 days I’ve been waiting in Juba, the capital of Southern Sudan. Waiting for a phone call saying that I can meet Joseph Kony. I couldn’t work out if it was African bureaucracy or incompetence.
Sunday was my contact and the LRA’s man in Juba. Abducted by Kony’s men at the age of 7, and with no living relatives, the LRA are his family.
SUNDAY
(SF: Are the plans going well) Yes, they are going well.
NARR
He’s constantly on his satellite phone trying to fix a meeting between Kony’s fighters in the bush and Sudanese officials.
Finally, some progress. We were summoned to see the Vice President of Southern Sudan. He also wanted to meet Kony. As we waited outside his office our LRA minders were totally at ease.
They’re well known to Reik Machar - a former warlord and bush fighter.
Riek
You were sick last time
NARR
Despite international criticism, Machar has given the LRA trucks of food and 20 thousand dollars. He’s leading efforts to broker an end to the conflict.
VP SYNC: £ 20,000 – oh, they’ re going to buy arms
We are credible – what we do we are transparent – ok thank you very much
NARR
We were finally on our way. Dozens of Sudanese troops joined us on the journey to meet Kony – I was told he was just over the border in the Democratic Republic of Congo.
The Southern Sudanese Vice President was optimistic about the meeting.
VP on phone
“We believe we are making a break through, we want a backup, we are the mediators we are the facilitators. I understand yesterday even Mbeki also backed our position”
NARR
After a 40 minute flight, a convoy of seven cars takes me on a journey to the still undisclosed meeting point. It’s not long before we grind to a halt. While the trucks were dug out, I seized an opportunity with the Vice President.
Riek MacharVice President, Southern Sudan
The second time to meet Joseph Kony. What we are doing is an attempt to bring about peace in northern Ugandan. If we can bring about a peaceful settlement to the conflict the legal process can be done later. You can not carry out a legal process in a situation where there is war.
NARR
After 2 days of travelling by road, a potential meeting place is found. We wait. And then, out of the jungle, Lords Resistance Army soldiers.
Their leader – Joseph Kony’s number 2, Vincent Otti.
VP
‘how many security do u want us to take’
'So we can go’
NARR
As we walked through the bush, I finally believed that I was going to meet Joseph Kony.
And there he was. The man I’d been chasing for a year. The man who’s eluded the Uganda government for 20 years. Of the handful of images of Kony, the most famous is of a man in his twenties with dreadlocks - He’s now in his 40’s. But his hatred for the Ugandan President Yoweri Museveni hasn’t changed.
General Joseph Kony Leader, Lord’s Resistance Army
You are the first journalist to come to me in the bush like this. So with me I am here. You have now seen me, I am a human being like you. I am also, I have eye, I have brain. I have, I wear clothes also.
Q: Describe yourself to me, tell me who you are
Kony
I am a military PERSON who is fighting in Uganda. I am a freedom fighter who is fighting for freedom in Uganda. But I am not a terrorist.
NARR
But the manner used to achieve these political aims has been horrific. Thousands of child fighters and civilians have been slaughtered. Hacking off lips, ears and limbs are just some of methods used by this ruthless rebel group.
Q: You have been accused of terrible crimes – lips, ears cut off.
Kony
That one is not true, that is propaganda which Museveni made, (Q: I’ve seen the photos) Yes, yes that is propaganda which Museveni made. Let me tell you clear, that thing was happening in Uganda. Museveni went in village and he cut ear of the people, telling the people that that thing was done by LRA. This is not true. I cannot cut the ear of my brother, I cannot kill the eye of my brother. I cannot kill my brother, that is not true.
Q: Are you saying the LRA have never been involved in any abductions, any rapes, any mutilations?
Kony
Yes, LRA has never been involved in that part.
NARR
Most of Kony’s fighters have been with him since childhood, since the time they were abducted from villages in Northern Uganda. War is the only life they have known. Kony has been accused of kidnapping, indoctrinating and imprisoning ten’s of thousands of children in his army. While I was there I didn’t see any young children but some told me they were fifteen.
General Joseph Kony Leader, Lord’s Resistance Army
I did not abducted anybody there. Some civilian there, they are volunteer themselves to come and join me so that we stay together, to protect their life, to defend theirselves here. Do you think that children can afford that condition of war? They will not! That is propaganda which Museveni is playing. I don’t have any children here
NARR
But that’s not the line he later takes with his troops. “If I were president all children would carry a gun” - he tells them. “to me, fighting is as normal as ironing a shirt”
20 years of war have involved atrocities on both sides – the LRA and the Ugandan government. In a war fought mainly in the bush, out of sight of cameras, the truth is hard to establish.
Riek Machar has taken on the role of bringing both sides together for peace talks. But as with previous attempts, it’s going to be extremely complicated.
Q: I’m still unclear, exactly what are your objectives? What are you really fighting for?
Kony
We want the people of Uganda to be free, we want the people of Uganda. Let me say, we are fighting for democracy, we want people to be a total democracy - free. We should be free to elect our leader. We want our leader to be elected, elected leader, but not a movement like the one of Museveni
NARR
As we ate together it struck me that Africa’s most wanted man - who’s never been interviewed by a journalist – seemed guilt free, more interested in the record of other war criminals. Joseph Kony and four of his most senior commanders are the first people to have arrest warrants issued by the International Criminal Court. Kony alone is accused of 33 counts of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
General Joseph Kony Leader, Lord’s Resistance Army
I am not guilty. I am not guilty. I am not guilty. At this time it is very difficult to do, but when we talk this peace talk and that peace talk and everything is finished well, we go and talk. We go and talk. We go and judge that case to show that I am not found guilty. Yes.
OTTI SYNC
This is the emblem of the Lords Resistance Army.
In the middle of the heart is the 10 commandments of God. We are fighting to defend 10 commandment of god, people are not following the 10 commandment of God.
NARR
Kony is accused of controlling his forces with a mixture of distorted Christianity and brutality. Their ideology, they say, comes from the bible.
Q Has God told you to fight this war?
Lt General Vincent Otti Lord’s Resistance Army
No, no, no, no. It is not like that. God did not tell me to fight this war, no
Q How many spirits speak to you?
Lt General Vincent Otti Lord’s Resistance Army
Very many. I don’t know the number but they speak to me. They talk to me. You know, we are guerrilla. We are rebel. We don’t have medicine. But with the help of spirit they will tell to us, you Mr. Joseph, go and take this thing and that thing.
NARR
Joseph Kony has been elusive for so many years that he’s achieved almost mythical status, both among his supporters and his enemies. The fact that he allowed me to spend time with him may be significant. He may be preparing to come out of the jungle and engage in talks with the Ugandan government. But it wouldn’t surprisie me if he slipped back into the bush never to be seen again.