Yunus: There is no reason why poverty should be here. This is a rich country. 120 million energetic, hard working, intelligent people. They can change the world, not just one tiny country.
Music
Dominique Schwartz: Muhammad Yunus is an economics professor. A man trained in reason and rationale. Yet he believes the seemingly unbelievable - that poverty is a solvable problem.
Yunus: Human beings were created on this planet to live with dignity and they can do that with the resources that are all around us.
Schwartz: Dhaka is the capital of Bangladesh. A city of eight million people, where the pollution burns your nose and throat, and rush hour lasts all day.
Every bit of space is accounted for, as villagers clog the streets in search of work and a better life. Few find it.
Many country folk wind up in the slums - this one we were allowed to film - it's the largest, but by no means the worst.
Schwartz: For years, Bangladesh has been portrayed only as the world's basket case.
But according to Yunus, it's not the people who've failed to improve their lot - it's the system. One which rejects the poor.
Yunus: I tried to solve it by giving money from my own pocket and I saw how much excitement it brought to them. So I thought I should let it continue. So I went to the banks to persuade them to lend money and they said no. That's where my story begins.
Music
Schwartz: Yunus's story is the story of the Grameen Bank- literally, the village bank. You won't see any grand buildings though.
For Grameen is built not on a mountain of money, but on the hard work and determination of the rural poor - the bank's borrowers. And it's owners.
Fourteen years after Yunus's dream swung into motion, more than two million Bangladeshi's have been able to start their own businesses - with loans as small as just one dollar.
Uchitpura Arahazar - two hours drive north east of the capital - is one of the 35,000 villages in which Grameen operates.
The constant clack of weaving looms is the area's heart beat - pumping out the fine fabrics for which Bengalis have long been renowned.
Poribanu is typical of many of the women who come to Grameen. Since her husband died 14 years ago, hers has been a life of continual hardship.
She earns 250 taka a week, not even eight dollars, spooling yarn for someone else.
The assets her husband once owned - land and cows - have all been sold in order to clothe and feed her three children.
Poribanu: This daughter was one month old when her father died, the older one was three years old and the son was one and a half years old. It's been a great struggle bringing these children up.
Until now, I haven't approached the Grameen Bank for money - but now I want to try to improve myself because I've seen my neighbours build houses and buy land. So I'm trying to do the same.
Schwartz: This is the man who'll need to approve Poribanu's loan - Shahjahan, one of Grameen's seven thousand roving bankers.
Each day, it's estimated, bank employees cycle, walk or paddle a combined distance equivalent to one and a half times around the earth - all in the name of collecting borrowers' weekly repayments.
Shahjahan: If poor people had to leave their village to go to the bank, it would interrupt their daily work and income. That is why the Grameen Bank goes to them.
Grameen Bank is a bit different from other conventional banks, that is why we have to put in a little extra effort. But I don't mind.
Chanting
Schwartz: There are many things about Grameen which are not conventional - chanting slogans is just one of them.
Chanting: Unity, Labour, Discipline, This is our way. Unity, Labour, Discipline, This is our way.
Schwartz: Unlike other banks, you don't need collateral to secure a loan. In fact, only those without assets may apply.
All potential borrowers, like Poribanu, must form a group with four other people, all of whom are responsible for each other's debts should anyone default.
Shahjahan: Give these 50 taka to Aisha.
Schwartz: Thanks to peer group support and pressure, however, few do. Grameen claims a repayment rate of 98 percent.
One of the bank's success stories, is Poribanu's neighbour, Aisha.
Aisha: We were so poor that I was unable to provide proper food or clothes for my family. When I first went to the Grameen Bank people used to talk behind my back. They said I was getting money from the Christians, or going dancing there.
Schwartz: But Grameen won out over the gossipers.
Schwartz: After eight years of saving and re-investment, Aisha is the proud owner of $4000 dollars worth of weaving looms. She believes the Grameen Bank saved her life and now she's fighting for Poribanu to have the same chance of salvation.
Aisha: When I took Poribanu to the bank she was poor. People said she would not be able to repay the loan. But I said she will be able to repay. Her son makes about 300-400 taka and she earns 200 taka herself.
Schwartz: For Yunus, Grameen is not just about raising women's capital - it's about raising their self-respect and standing in a society where women are expected to defer to men.
That philosophy has paid off. Women have turned out to be much better credit risks than men. Today, Grameen actively seeks female borrowers, who comprise 94 percent of all clients.
Yunus: Children get immediate benefits if the mother is a borrower and women will have a longer vision about life and building up things so they can move out of poverty whereas men don't pay much attention to the children as much as the mother did. They're not as worried about the future, they more try to enjoy right now.
Schwartz: But there are those who believe that solving world poverty is not as simple as loaning money to the poor - that it must also tackle the bigger picture.
Kibria: It is essential in the initial stage to try to build up the macro level institutions - the road structure, the banking system, the telecommunication system, the protection of the agriculture by building embankments, drainage, irrigation facilities.
You can't say that, well, these are big things, we should give credit to the small farmer, that will change the fortune of the farmer, no.
Yunus: We have received something like $30 billion in foreign aid since we became independent 25 years back. But if you go around you don't see the mark of this $30 billion in the faces of the people.
This is nothing to say against the people. This is something to say against foreign aid - the way it has been used.
Those foreign aid went perhaps in building infrastructures - building highways, power plants or building whatever but not concerned with the life of the people.
Kibria: If Professor Yunus, whom I respect very much, the President of the Grameen Bank suggested it was the wrong policy to support the big infrastructure projects well, I politely beg to disagree. I think these large infrastructure projects were important, are important and have to be developed.
Music
Schwartz: For Poribanu, however, this is as big as the picture gets. She's on her way to Grameen's regional office to collect her loan. Thanks to Aisha steamrolling the village opposition - Poribanu has been given a chance.
Grameen lends money at 20 percent interest. While better than the exorbitant rates charged by money-lenders, it's still not cheap.
Taking a loan then, is a huge step for these women. Even in times of natural disaster, Grameen doesn't forgive debt, the bank only restructures it.
Nevertheless, Poribanu is keen to sign on the dotted line. She writes her name in pen for the very first time - for the past week she's been practicing with a stick in the dirt.
For all her understandable trepidation, Poribanu is confident she'll be able to turn her 4000 taka - 100 dollar loan - into a profitable business - buying and reselling fabric.
Yunus: Grameen is now described as the bank of the poor. And it hurts me to keep on hearing this for the last 20 years. My dream is to keep hearing a new kind of description - that Grameen is a bank of the former poor. So a poverty-free Grameen Bank, and then extended to Bangladesh, a poverty-free Bangladesh. There is nobody in Bangladesh who can be described as a poor person.
Schwartz: Is that a realistic vision?
Yunus: It is very realistic, indeed. Not only within the context of Bangladesh but I think it's realistic in a global context. We can create a poverty free world., where nobody will become a poor person.
Schwartz: But is there the political will to do that?
Yunus: It's up to you and me. Political will is my will and your will together. If we believe in it, that's the way we'll have it. See, anything, before it can happen we have to start dreaming about it. Unless we dream about it, we'll never have it.
Schwartz: Today Poribanu can dare to dream, and begin, to make it happen.
Instead of a future of destitution, Poribanu can look forward to her own business, employment for her son, and schooling for her daughter.
Music
Grameen might not as yet be changing the whole world but it's certainly changing hers.
Poribanu: I believe the Grameen Bank loan will improve my life. Although I have achieved some progress in my life, now I want to move further with the bank loan. I believe, God willing, I will make progress. Please pray for me.
Music
Dominique Schwartz: Muhammad Yunus is an economics professor. A man trained in reason and rationale. Yet he believes the seemingly unbelievable - that poverty is a solvable problem.
Yunus: Human beings were created on this planet to live with dignity and they can do that with the resources that are all around us.
Schwartz: Dhaka is the capital of Bangladesh. A city of eight million people, where the pollution burns your nose and throat, and rush hour lasts all day.
Every bit of space is accounted for, as villagers clog the streets in search of work and a better life. Few find it.
Many country folk wind up in the slums - this one we were allowed to film - it's the largest, but by no means the worst.
Schwartz: For years, Bangladesh has been portrayed only as the world's basket case.
But according to Yunus, it's not the people who've failed to improve their lot - it's the system. One which rejects the poor.
Yunus: I tried to solve it by giving money from my own pocket and I saw how much excitement it brought to them. So I thought I should let it continue. So I went to the banks to persuade them to lend money and they said no. That's where my story begins.
Music
Schwartz: Yunus's story is the story of the Grameen Bank- literally, the village bank. You won't see any grand buildings though.
For Grameen is built not on a mountain of money, but on the hard work and determination of the rural poor - the bank's borrowers. And it's owners.
Fourteen years after Yunus's dream swung into motion, more than two million Bangladeshi's have been able to start their own businesses - with loans as small as just one dollar.
Uchitpura Arahazar - two hours drive north east of the capital - is one of the 35,000 villages in which Grameen operates.
The constant clack of weaving looms is the area's heart beat - pumping out the fine fabrics for which Bengalis have long been renowned.
Poribanu is typical of many of the women who come to Grameen. Since her husband died 14 years ago, hers has been a life of continual hardship.
She earns 250 taka a week, not even eight dollars, spooling yarn for someone else.
The assets her husband once owned - land and cows - have all been sold in order to clothe and feed her three children.
Poribanu: This daughter was one month old when her father died, the older one was three years old and the son was one and a half years old. It's been a great struggle bringing these children up.
Until now, I haven't approached the Grameen Bank for money - but now I want to try to improve myself because I've seen my neighbours build houses and buy land. So I'm trying to do the same.
Schwartz: This is the man who'll need to approve Poribanu's loan - Shahjahan, one of Grameen's seven thousand roving bankers.
Each day, it's estimated, bank employees cycle, walk or paddle a combined distance equivalent to one and a half times around the earth - all in the name of collecting borrowers' weekly repayments.
Shahjahan: If poor people had to leave their village to go to the bank, it would interrupt their daily work and income. That is why the Grameen Bank goes to them.
Grameen Bank is a bit different from other conventional banks, that is why we have to put in a little extra effort. But I don't mind.
Chanting
Schwartz: There are many things about Grameen which are not conventional - chanting slogans is just one of them.
Chanting: Unity, Labour, Discipline, This is our way. Unity, Labour, Discipline, This is our way.
Schwartz: Unlike other banks, you don't need collateral to secure a loan. In fact, only those without assets may apply.
All potential borrowers, like Poribanu, must form a group with four other people, all of whom are responsible for each other's debts should anyone default.
Shahjahan: Give these 50 taka to Aisha.
Schwartz: Thanks to peer group support and pressure, however, few do. Grameen claims a repayment rate of 98 percent.
One of the bank's success stories, is Poribanu's neighbour, Aisha.
Aisha: We were so poor that I was unable to provide proper food or clothes for my family. When I first went to the Grameen Bank people used to talk behind my back. They said I was getting money from the Christians, or going dancing there.
Schwartz: But Grameen won out over the gossipers.
Schwartz: After eight years of saving and re-investment, Aisha is the proud owner of $4000 dollars worth of weaving looms. She believes the Grameen Bank saved her life and now she's fighting for Poribanu to have the same chance of salvation.
Aisha: When I took Poribanu to the bank she was poor. People said she would not be able to repay the loan. But I said she will be able to repay. Her son makes about 300-400 taka and she earns 200 taka herself.
Schwartz: For Yunus, Grameen is not just about raising women's capital - it's about raising their self-respect and standing in a society where women are expected to defer to men.
That philosophy has paid off. Women have turned out to be much better credit risks than men. Today, Grameen actively seeks female borrowers, who comprise 94 percent of all clients.
Yunus: Children get immediate benefits if the mother is a borrower and women will have a longer vision about life and building up things so they can move out of poverty whereas men don't pay much attention to the children as much as the mother did. They're not as worried about the future, they more try to enjoy right now.
Schwartz: But there are those who believe that solving world poverty is not as simple as loaning money to the poor - that it must also tackle the bigger picture.
Kibria: It is essential in the initial stage to try to build up the macro level institutions - the road structure, the banking system, the telecommunication system, the protection of the agriculture by building embankments, drainage, irrigation facilities.
You can't say that, well, these are big things, we should give credit to the small farmer, that will change the fortune of the farmer, no.
Yunus: We have received something like $30 billion in foreign aid since we became independent 25 years back. But if you go around you don't see the mark of this $30 billion in the faces of the people.
This is nothing to say against the people. This is something to say against foreign aid - the way it has been used.
Those foreign aid went perhaps in building infrastructures - building highways, power plants or building whatever but not concerned with the life of the people.
Kibria: If Professor Yunus, whom I respect very much, the President of the Grameen Bank suggested it was the wrong policy to support the big infrastructure projects well, I politely beg to disagree. I think these large infrastructure projects were important, are important and have to be developed.
Music
Schwartz: For Poribanu, however, this is as big as the picture gets. She's on her way to Grameen's regional office to collect her loan. Thanks to Aisha steamrolling the village opposition - Poribanu has been given a chance.
Grameen lends money at 20 percent interest. While better than the exorbitant rates charged by money-lenders, it's still not cheap.
Taking a loan then, is a huge step for these women. Even in times of natural disaster, Grameen doesn't forgive debt, the bank only restructures it.
Nevertheless, Poribanu is keen to sign on the dotted line. She writes her name in pen for the very first time - for the past week she's been practicing with a stick in the dirt.
For all her understandable trepidation, Poribanu is confident she'll be able to turn her 4000 taka - 100 dollar loan - into a profitable business - buying and reselling fabric.
Yunus: Grameen is now described as the bank of the poor. And it hurts me to keep on hearing this for the last 20 years. My dream is to keep hearing a new kind of description - that Grameen is a bank of the former poor. So a poverty-free Grameen Bank, and then extended to Bangladesh, a poverty-free Bangladesh. There is nobody in Bangladesh who can be described as a poor person.
Schwartz: Is that a realistic vision?
Yunus: It is very realistic, indeed. Not only within the context of Bangladesh but I think it's realistic in a global context. We can create a poverty free world., where nobody will become a poor person.
Schwartz: But is there the political will to do that?
Yunus: It's up to you and me. Political will is my will and your will together. If we believe in it, that's the way we'll have it. See, anything, before it can happen we have to start dreaming about it. Unless we dream about it, we'll never have it.
Schwartz: Today Poribanu can dare to dream, and begin, to make it happen.
Instead of a future of destitution, Poribanu can look forward to her own business, employment for her son, and schooling for her daughter.
Music
Grameen might not as yet be changing the whole world but it's certainly changing hers.
Poribanu: I believe the Grameen Bank loan will improve my life. Although I have achieved some progress in my life, now I want to move further with the bank loan. I believe, God willing, I will make progress. Please pray for me.