TITLE :
« KILL THEM ALL... NOT ONE MUST SURVIVE »
10:01:18. MO
It is all there in that computer which never leaves his side...
10:01:27 MO
« Your bag never leaves your side ? »
JR :
No, never
MO :
Why ?
JR :
I'm terrified of losing it
MO :
What's in the bag ?
JR :
A certain number of elements which we will need in the coming days and in particulalr, the summary of the Srebenica file and my computer....
MO
Inside there are hundreds of documents... Among them is a film which has pushed him to break his silence and to talk.... A film he has been looking for for several years... It was found by a Human Rights woman activist in Belgrade last June....
MO 10:02 13
: What does your computer hold that is so important?
JR :
There are quite a few important things but there is one element in particular which is relatively recent and which is of interest to several people : it contains filmed images of the period and that shows the execution of prisonners who were from Srebenica.
MO 10:02 30
These are pictures that were shot by the criminals themselves.. They were all Serbs
JR :
There, at this particular moment in the film the killers arrive
Video sequence of the killers
JR 10:02:48:
: they have them step forward one by one, there, they have just killed the first one. In the meantime the guy behind watches, as does the third one in line who sees the others fall while he waits for his turn - now it's his turn.
JR 10:03:14
They then get them to carry the bodies of the previous four victims into a nearby house making them believe that they will be spared ... and once the task is complete they are executed as well.
They call them the « lucky ones »....
JR 10:03:41
The awful truth is that no matter how shocking these scenes are, they do not reflect the situation of other executions which were much larger scale and where the prisoners had even more time to realise what was going to happen to them without even considering the dreadful, indescibable treatment they met.
MO : 10:04:13
Despite this document and thousands of witness accounts the Serbian authoirities keep on denying Srebenica's genocide ... The French Superintendant has therefore decided to use the only arms at his disposal - his investigation and his word. To him, silence means forgetfulness as well as forgiveness....
JR 10:04 :35
This is the crossroads of Konjevic Pole (where one mass grave was discovered)
JR : 10:04:47
There on the right was one execution site, there in the field just on our right hand side, there...
JR : 10:04:53
And just on the left over there, there is a group of communal graves... and one behind the line of trees as well. There are over a hundred bodies there which were disinterred, their hands tied behind their backs and not even blindfolded.
Map with special effects (OR Adapted Map)
MO : 10:05:12
: The French policeman agrees to retrace the ciminals footsteps for us... Step by step... Massacre by massacre.... In less than 5 days, from 12th to 17th July 1995, almost 8000 men were to be killed in this region
MO : 10:05:34
On either side of this road, which he has nicknamed the death' axis, there are dozens of execution sites and 43 known mass graves...
MO : 10:05:50
The French policeman has taken this route hundreds of times, sometimes with great fear and often under a military escort...
MO : 10:06:04
His investigation was difficult... It started here in this ghost town, Srebenica, where there are now only a handful of Muslim families left.... Ethnic cleansing took place here, Srebenica is now predominantly Serbian and Orthodox. And here, the law of silence is a reality... war criminals are protected by the population... to begin with, this man - Radko Mladic....
MO : 10:06:45
This is where Mladic began his macabre plan on July 11th 95.
JR :
Yes, exactly. He was giving an interview on the roundabout just in front of us facing that building....
MO :
What did he say ?....
MLADIC :
Sound of Mladic
Allez à Pocari ! Allez à Potocari, Bratunac !Ne vous arrêtez pas ! Allez, partez devant moi ! Allez-y, allons y les garçons !
Réquisitionne le. Viens, Où sont tes munitions ? Courrez, prends le camion et va voir à Legenda. Toi, tu viens, Allez, on y va !
JR : 10:07:25
By the Turks, he means the Bosnian Muslims, it is a pejorative term that refer to them.
MO :
In fact the future of the men of Srebenica was very quickly sealed ?
JR :
Oh yes, very quickly, on the evening of the 12th on the face of it.
MO :
General Mladic decided that they should all die ?
JR :
According to all the information in our possession it was indeed his decision.
MO 10:07:44
: Radko Mladic was the leader of the Serbian army in Bosnia.. For him it is now the time for revenge... On July 12th 95, after taking Srebenica, he puts his plan into action, a plan which will lead to the execution of almost 8000 Muslim men....
The first stage took place here in Potocari....
Thanks to the numerous witness acccounts and the films shot by the Serbian televsion, Jean-Rene Ruez has managed to fit the pieces of the puzzle together...
At first, more than 30,000 people, often elderly men and exhausted women and children, were grouped together in this camp.
The Dutch soldiers of the United Nations were supposed to protect them. It will not be the case. The UN soldiers stood by, watched and did nothing to stop Radko Mladic....
Mladic 10:08:05
« Don't worry »...
Hello,
Everything's fine, everything's fine
Child : Hello,
Mladic :
How old are you ?
Child :
12
Mladic :
What's your name ?
Child :
Izudin
Mladic :
Please be patient. Don't be frightened, let the women and children through first. Be careful, don't lose the children. Don't be frightened, noone is going to hurt you.
Crowd :
Thank you thank you. God bless you
MO 10:09:14
At this point his sadistic plan is already concocted. It will happen within less than a week.
All Mladic's men know what they have to do. First, they have to reassure the population so as to better deceive them.
Soldier :
Come with me. Don't worry, no-one is going to hit you. Come this way and we can go over there. Don't worry, come along calmly, no-one is going to hurt you. Don't cry.
Woman :
We've been separated, let us have some time together...
Soldier :
Don't worry....
MO 10:09:43
Then, over the next two days they make separate the women to one side from the men to the other....
Militaire (voice off)
Come on, follow them that way, one by one.
No, no, that way, to the left
Comne on, everyone in a line, one behind the other.
That way
Here, to the left
Journalist : Could you tell the inde[endent television of Belgrade what is happening here ?
UN Soldier :You can see what is happening
Journalist : I have only just arrived
UN soldier :You know...
MO 10:10:14
That day, the UN soldiers knew exactly what was going to happen to those thousands of civilians.
JR 10:10:20
As the partition between men and women progressed, men were herded in that house, the white one, just behind us. Once the house was stuffed with prisoners, the others were carted off in coaches in the direction of Bratunac and the whole process was repeated throughout July 12th and 13th.
As for women and children, they were boarded onto buses parked along this road and were transported in the direction of the Bosnian territories
MO 10:10:51
Some of the men of Srebenica tried to discreetly run away, but after two days and nights in the forest, the constant bombings, the Muslims finally gave up and came out.
10:11:10
This child will be one of the few survivors of the group.
10:11:29
This father believes himself to be secure, so he calls his son who eventually will join him... Both will be executed.
Sequence Nermin
Nermin : Come down, I am here, you have nothing to fear...
MO 10:11:37
Jean-Rene watched these images on and on. He has analysed them sequence by sequence, day after day. He listened to hundreds of people, talked with survivors - those twleve miraculous survivors who told him about the unspeakable. That day, he tried to take us to one of the mass executions' sites, the Branjevo military farm....
Sequence Nichta
MO 10:12:14
It took him weeks to locate this military farm. The Serbs did everything they could to hide the trail and no wonder did they do so: it is one of the most important sites of mass executions...
MO 10:12:40
So, you have found it ?
JR :
We are right on the spot, except that it has changed dramatically
MO :
What happened here ?
JR :
On July 16th, starting from 10 am onward, prisoners who had been kept at the school of Koula a few kilometres from here, were loaded onto buses and brought here. A commando of executioners from the 10th group was waiting for them.
This was the way by which the buses arrrived. So, the buses arrived here and parked there. The men from the 10th group got on the buses - the drivers were forced to kill the prisoners so as to make sure they wouldn't talk afterwards.
They were then marched along the path and brought here.
From that zone onwards, the men were all lined up in a row and the killers went behind them and shot them. Then another group would arrive, walk past the bodies, stop, the killers would stand behind them and would kill them. And so it went on and throughout the day, bodies moved futher into the field.
So, you see there is a characteristic line and all this part here, the part where we are now and continuing in front of us over a hundred metres or so, was strewn with bodies.
MO 10:14:36
How many of them carried out this massacre ?
JR :
: They were 8 members of the 10th sabotage group, they were little by little joined up by volunteers from Bratunac who came to give them a hand.
MO 10:15:00
That man here, Drazen Erdemovic, was one of the killers. He was 26 at the time.
ERDEMOVIC 10:15:09
I have decided to plead guilty
Lawyer :
« Are you ready to plead and do you plead guilty or not guilty? »
Trial Sequence : « I have decided to plead guilty »
Lawyer : « What were the members of your group supposed to do with the Muslims of Srebenica ? »
Erdemovic :
We were to execute them
MO 10:15:42
Jean-René Ruez was the first to interview this repenting killer. His confession will lead to the identification of the executions site... this farm, where, one sunny Sunday, nearly 1200 Muslim civilians were cold bloodedly executed..
Images of the mass grave
MO 10:16:25
In order to confirm the account of the killer, other elements were needed. It would take Jean-Rene months to get them - these photos....
JR 10:16:35
This photo dates from July 17th 95, the day after the executions at the Branjevo farm. On this photo we can see the structures of the now destroyed building as well as the field where the prisoners were executed..
Sequence of aerial shots
MO 10:16:53
All these photos were taken by American surveillance planes. They regularly crisscrossed Bosnia during the war.
JR 10:17:00
If we enlarge the photo we can see that all the little spots on the field are actually bodies which are being taken by an excavator to be deposited into the mass grave.
JR 10:17:20
Here we are right in the hole: the edge of the grave is the limit formed by vegetation.
In 1996 there were still pieces of bodies which had been pushed by the heavy equipment used to bury the bodies. They still could be seen on the surface of that part there.
Animals must have scratched the ground and brought out bits of bodies because we found skulls and bones 164,04 feet from here, as well as shoes and belongings.
MO 10:17:56
You sound rather cold when you talk about these crime scenes
JR :
Crime scenes, for such technicians, must always remain neutral. Coldness is the best camouflage to hide away what you feel in such moments.
MO :
Was it hard for you ?
JR :
A lot of things were hard of course. Crimes like those are the desperation of humanity. It is always hard to admit such things.
MO 10:18:36
The killers belong to this unit, the 10th sabotage unit. Officially its mission was to gather information but on July 15th 1995 they received an order from their head quarter: they were to go as quickly as possible to the military farm of Branjevo
Drazen, the killer, who handed himself over to the court, was part of that unit. During his first interrogation, he told the French policeman everything and he repeated it all to the Judge here. Each time, he repeated the eight names of the commando members...
here.
10:19:15
« Could you identify the eight members of the commando »...
Erdemovic : Franc Kos was there, Goronja Zoran, Savanovic Stanko, Cvetkovic Aleksandar, Boskic Marko, Golijran Vlastimir, myself and Gojkovic Branjo
MO 10:19:24
Each time, he repeated the eight names of the commando members
MO 10:19:31
These eight men executed almost 1200 men, aged between 14 and 77...
Attorney General 10:19:43
When you say, he told me to kill them, who is « he », can you give us his name ?
Erdemovic :
Branjo Gojkovic
MO 10:19:57
We found Branj Gojkovic, he is the commando chief who ordered the execution of the 1200 Muslims at the Branjevo farm.
20 33
Sequence Branjo
MO 10:20:08
He is accompanied by another member of the commando, he is the man dressed in red, that's Zoran. But he refuses to be filmed. They are killers. Here he shows us the place through which his men penetrated into Srebenica
20 53 sound Branjo
Here is the road... That's where we arrived
« Our unit's objective was to take out the police station »...
MO 10:20:37
July 11th 1995... the town has been deserted. The Bosnian army has left and the population has fled. The 10th Sabotage unit is the first to penetrate into the town. There was no fighting only these houses were burned. General Mladic congratulates his soliers. Among them is the 10th Sabotage unit.
Branjo 10:21:09 (he lives in Vlasenica, in the Serbian Republic)
« We came down by this road; there was no resistance, but mind you, I am only talking about my unit. I cannot speak for what happened with the others. As for the 40 members of our unit, we encountered no resistance at all. We came in exactly as we are now »...
MO 10:21:34
This is the first time that this man is returning to Srebenica since the end of the war. The town has retained the scars of the battles and of the four years it spent under Serbian gunfire rule.
Today the area is patrolled by the American army. We film their vehicles from a car driven by a war criminal
MO 10:22:00
Branjo is tense...
MO 10:22:08
Further away, in the centre of town, we are stopped. We are told to stop filming. At no time do the Americans ask for Branjo nor the man in red's identity papers. They only want us to erase the shots in which they appear.
Sequence - the Americans
MO 10:22:31
The next day, we meet up at Branjo's house. The man in red does not want to see us anymore. We are finally going to ask Branjo the question which has obsessed us since we first met. But first we remind him of the accusations which are held against him by one of his own men...
MO 10:22:56
And what
Branjo
Erdemovic lied... We know him, we know what he is like. He is only lying....
I don ‘t know, I haven't really thought about it. The tribunal seems to be accusing all Serbs, there are very few Bosnians and very few Croatians. I don't know what to say....
MO 10:23:57
For each executed man, he had promised his men 7DM, 4 euros...
MO 10:24:05
Although he was identified by the tribunal, Branjo Gojkovic was never bothered by international justice. For the last ten years, he has been living happily with his wife, their two children and his cat.
MO 10:24:22
And yet Jean Rene Ruez is unequivocal. This man ought to be judged for crimes against humanity, tried not only for the massacre at the Branjo farm but also for the massacre at the House of Culture of Pilica. Jean Rene takes us there. We must be very discreet.
25 12 « Be careful »... Sequence JR
For the first time, Jean Rene seems tense ...
MO 10:25:30
So...
JR 10:25:33
The place is still in the same state. In fact the executions began with the soldiers firing through the windows. The people, who were inside, had to take refuge at the back or below.
Then the shots continued through the door on the right. And then finally grenades were thrown under the rostrum, where some people had taken refuge. You can still see the traces of the explosions on the wall.
MO 10:26:07
How many people were inside ?
JR : 10:26:25
About 500, according to the estimations of the Lieutenant Colonal who gave the order to fire
Here the executions took place on July 16th and 17th. The bodies were removed, loaded on a lorry and, after several journeys back and there, all the corpses were taken to the Branjo farm to be buried along with those killed there. The Branjo farm is the collectvice burial site for those killed at the farm and those killed here.
MO 10:27:01
These shots were filmed by the investigators less than one year after the massacre. They wanted to fix the crime scenes. At this time the investigators' only fear was that the Serbs would erase all traces of these executions, the bullet impacts, the splashes of blood. Even when everything seems obvious, like here, samples have to be taken and then analysed.
Commentary : We are on Serb territory and on our guards. Jean Rene knows he is still not wlecome here...
Sequence interior of the room
MO 10:27:50
There was no chance of escape here ?
JR :
None, and there were no survivor from this site. Not one. Besides while the slaughter was taking place in this room, the men from the 10th Sabotage group were having a drink in the bar across the road, with the Lieutenant Colonel who had given them their orders.
JR :10:28:15
Chance has it that there is a bus just in front which is the same type of bus that brought the prisoners to this site.
MO 10:28:22
We only remain here about 20 minutes. Jean Rene does not want to hang around. He says it is too dangerous.
All in all, along with the slaughter of the Branjo farm, 1700 people were executed on July 16th 1995
JR :10:28:35
So, here on the right, the bar where the men of the 10th Sabotage group waited for those from Bradounatz to finish executing the prisoners inside the House of Culture.
MO 10:28:49
And on the other side, the Serbs have built a Memorial just in front of House of Culture. A memorial for the victims, but the Serbian victims...
MO 10:29:03
We meet up with Branjo Gojkovic, the commando's chief. He takes us to his village's cemetary. He wants us to see the graves, all these graves... They are, says he, the graves of Serbs killed by the Muslims in 1992.
MO 10:29:27
Are there any Serb who took their revenge at Srebenica?
BRANJO
I don't know that, maybe yes, maybe no. The hate was great in any case....
MO 10:29:45
Before leaving him, he will yet again tell us that he does not believe in the claims of genocide. For him there were in fact only 3 to 400 victims at Srebenica... and they were all Muslim soldiers. Not one was a civilian...
MO 10:30:01
This man is not the only war criminal walking around free. There are photos of war criminals in every police station. They remind us they are still many to be wanted. The crosses show those who are already in prison at The Hague, in Holland... a small minority...
MO 10:30:24
And here, are there still war ciminals at large ?
JR :
There are probably some of them walking around the streets of this small town freely
MO :
him, for example ?
JR :
him, for example. Branjo Gojkovic was the leader of the group of executers from the 10th Sabotage unit, who operated at the Branjo farm on July 16th...
MO :
And they are never arrested ?
JR :
The tribunal is not habilitated to search and arrest what they call the small fry.
MO :
Small fry ? These people who killed 1200 others ? A commando of only 8 ?
JR :
According to the tribunal standards, they are not targets for warrants. However the local justice system will take over the files.
MO 10:31:19
Jean René did not have a warrant to proceed with arrests. His role was restricted to the investigation...a trying mission sometimes...often dangerous... But the Superintendant stuck to it all the way, no matter what.
Every day, he fought to prove the massacres did happen, that they had been planned. For six long and hard years he was present at most of the exhumations, like this one.
MO 10:31:47
We are in the Cancari valley... It is May 11th 1998...almost three years after the massacres. A site has been spotted. Jean Rene is filming. First stage, check that the site has not been mined....
MO 10:32:05
Then, mark out and protect all access to the mass grave. The NATO soldiers will guard the site 24 hours a day. Forensic experts, technicians and archaeologists coming from Argentina, Guetemala or the USA surround the mass grave.
MO 10:32:37
We are standing on a crime scene. All clues must be collected, all the bodies, or what remains of them, must be analysed. With this kind of large scale murder, concrete and material elements are needed...elements which might help to determine if the men were tortured before being executed.
MO 10:33:11
Here, this is a piece of material that shows that the victim was blindfolded. There, a band proves that the victim had his arms tied behind his back.
These are new evidences...like this bullet case. Everything is meticulously noted, photographed and bagged
MO 10:33:40
Later, in the laboratory, they will also have to identify the bodies, give those a name and history. In this grave, more than 60 bodies have been found. In this valley alone, they will amount to more than a thousand.
From now on, another type of work is beginning. Using the identity papers and DNA tests, they will crosscheck with the lists of the International Red cross and constitute the official list of those who have disappeared. They are more than 8000 names. Today, they have been able to identify a victim... Ramic Salko. He was 63 years old. He was not a soldier.
One day, the victims' family will be able to get back these damaged photos, the last testimonies of their lost loved ones...
JR 10:35:02
Were you trained for this sort of crime ?
JR :
No, there is no specific training for mass crimes because, fortunately this sort of thing has not happened in Europe for over 60 years
MO :
Ex Yougoslvia is in Europe...
JR :
Yes
MO :
Just two hours by plane from Paris...
JR :
That's true but I was talking about Europe in terms of the European Community as it stands today. Unfortunately yes, Europe in the larger sense has known genocide
MO 10:35:36
July 2005... Srebrenica is getting ready to commemorate the genocide. This is the 10th anniversary.
MO 10:35:52
The cemetary only holds a thousand graves. These are the only ones which have, for the moment, been identified and properly buried.
That day, we learn that another mass grave has been discovered. It is situated just above the Memorial. Jean Rene wants to go there....
36 44 Sequence meeting up
JR :
How are things ?
Journalist :
Ah Jean-René...
JR :
Are you well ?
Journalist :
Fine, my friend, thank you
JR :
See how we meet again...
Journalist :
When did you arrive ?
JR :
Friday evening
Journalist :
Are you staying here
JR :
No, I leave Monday. I'm not here for the ceremony...
Journalist :
OH, no ?
JR :
NO, no, no
Journalist :
I thought you were staying here as the ceremony was taking place
JR : No, I don't belong here...
Journalist :
I know, my friend
MO 10:36:40
This Bosnian journalist has helped Jean Rene throughout his investigation
(Shot of woman with veil over her head)
Journalist :
Have you seen that there's another mass grave here?
JR :
No, I haven't but it is very interesting to know about it. I don't know where it is though.
Journalist :
There is a team working there already...
JR :
Oh, really ?
Journalist :
Yes, yes
JR :
Great
Journalist :
They're working non-stop
JR :
Are they working there now ?
Journaliste :
Yes, I was there just half an hour ago
JR :
ok
MO 10:37:06
Jean Rene Ruez tried very hard to withdraw from this investigation... He officially stopped in 2000. After two sabbatical years he reinstated the French police. However he can't get away from this drama, he can't let go of his mission...
MO 10:37:30
10 years afterwards, are they still finding mass graves?
JR :
: Yes, and it was important to find this particular one. We'll see what it reveals but it will be interesting to learn how this site came about.
He is still familiar with all those who have continued working on this mission, like this man, head of the exhumations team. Jean Rene has not seen him for almost 5 years. He is the man in charge of digging up the mass graves which are spread all over the region...
JR 10:38:06
Ah, I'm happy to see you here
MO :
What did they find there?
JR :
well... one of those sordid details which show that a person who had such a post-operational implant could not be a soldier since he had a piece of metal holding two vertebrae together.
JR What a shame, what a shame. Yes the tiles are more than likely from Glogova.
What elements do you have that show the victims came from Glogova?
En Anglais dans le texte (discussion entre les Bosniaques)
JR :
A witness ?
Bosnian :
JR :
Oh, not enough
JR :
But the tiles are an important element because Glogova is covered with them... yes
MO 10:38:44
Within a few seconds, Jean René becomes the head of investigations again. He questions, wonders. Within 6 years, he has become a real expert. With a simple fragment of tile he can fix the place where those men were executed
JR 10:39:02
It's a shame because I was hoping the corpses would be those from Potocari. Some are missing, about a hundred of them are missing and to this day, we still have no idea where they can be.
MO 10:39:44
These women also are distraught. They were hoped truth to have found the bodies of their loved ones. They have been waiting for 10 years to start their mourning...
40 06 Sound of JR
MO :
Do you still feel entrusted with this mission ?
JR : :
As long as I am being called on to stand witness, there is no other way for me to feel. Even if I wanted to let go, I would still have to keep an eye on the matter. « Never forget Srebenica » is a slogan that I cannot professionally get away from.
MO 10:40:05
Hundreds of people gather there that day for a silent march. They are all Bosnians and all lost someone in July 1995 in Srebenica. Like Jean Rene they do not want to forget or that the investigation, the genocide or the war criminals and their chiefs be forgotten. They all want to have names and faces put to these killers.
MO 10:40:05
The same afternoon, just a few metres further away,
a convoy of lorries arrives carrying 612 coffins....
612 people have finally been identified
MO 10:41:06
This sign reminds us that Srebenica was a zone under the protection of the United Nations... it says that this genocide must be a lesson for future generations.
Truth is what the families want...the truth about the 8000 men who disappeared from Srebenica...
MO 10:41 :54
What happened to their husbands, their fathers, their sons? Why were they executed? They are obsessed with these questions day and night.
MO 10:42 :12
You work has enabled other victims to start their mourning?
JR :
yes
MO :
Was it long ?
JR :
Oh yes, for these women it was definitely very, very long. And for others it is even longer because the vast majority is still waiting to find their loved ones and to bury their men's.
JR :10 :43 :01
Wait, wait...
JR :10 :43:26
The problem with such a case is that you do not talk about people, we dehumanize the individual by talking about massive numbers. We talk about volumes, not about individuals. In an investigation like this, we talk about volumes and measures - a measure is a lorry, a bus, a depot, a school gym or classrooms.
Here what we talk about when talking about victims, we do not mention persons but volumes...until one day we manage to identify someone and then, at that moment, we have an individual, a person in a coffin.
Sequence young girl
MO 10:44:41
Officially the NATO forces present here are in charge of arresting the main war criminals... Radovan Karadzic, the ex-president of the Serbs in Bosnia and his military chief, Radko Mladic...
Jean Rene's investigation proves it...they are the one who planned the genocide. Since their indictment in July 1995 they have never been troubled. Dozens of operations have been organized, without success. And yet, during the first years they made no attempt to hide. We were able to meet Radovan Karadzic in December 1995. It was the last interview he gave to a foreign journalist. He appeared calm and serene that day. He was scoffing at the international community.
Karadzic 10:46:03
MO :
Has IFOR tried to arrest you ?
Karadzic :
No, they have never tried to arrest me. I travel arround my country but I avoid the IFOR checkpoints. It's my country and there are lots of roads. I go wherever I want and where I need to go.
MO :
Are you not afraid ?
Karadzic :
No, do I look frightened?
MO 10:45:49
And the ex-president of the Serbs in Bosnia takes this opportunity to defend his military chief of staff... Radko Mladic.
Sound of Karadzic
General Mladic has never authorised anyone to commit such atrocities. If such atrocities have been committed, then it was revenge because this is a civil war. Such men should be tried by our own justice system.
MO 10:46:31
At the same time, Radko Mladic, surrounded by his bodyguards is enjoying his favourite hobby.... A thumb in the nose at the international community.... Mladic, like Karadzic feel untouchable, above international laws, untouchables....
Sequence Mladic 10:46:50
It's going well... I have been down about 40 times... The snow is good... It ‘s really great.
MO 10:46:52
Why such impunity ? Is there really any determination to stop these two war criminals? In December 1995 we tried to get some anwers from these French soldiers....
MO 10:47:10
Hello. What are you going to do ?
Lieutenant :
We are accompanying some people from NATO who have come for a conference, that's all.
MO :
We are standing only a few metres away from where Karadzic is. He is wanted, Have you seen these posters?
Lieutenant :
We have these posters
MO :
And.... ?
Lieutenant :
We will do what we will be asked to do
MO :
You haven't been ordered to arrest him yet, despite the fact that he is here ?
Lieutenant :
I will not answer that question.
MO :
Have you been ordered to arrest him ?
Lieutenant :
I will not answer that question. I'm sorry.
MO :
Can you recognize all the war criminals that are here ?
Lieutenant :
I have this poster in my room. I look at it every day.
MO :
So, you don't do anything ?
Lieutenant :
What do you mean, nothing ? You're the one saying we are not doing anything
MO :
None of these war criminals has been arrested
Lieutenant :
: I don't have the right to have an opinion on the matter....
MO 10:47:11
10 years later, nothing has changed or next to nothing. It is true that some Serbian officiers have been arrested but those really responsible for the genocide are still free.
MO 10:48:03
Do you think that one day they will be arrested? ... that there is a real wish to arrest them?
JR :
: I cannot answer about the wish, however, yes, I still hope that these people will be arrested. That's for sure.
MO :
But it's been 10 years and nothing has been done.
JR :
That's right but maybe time needs time.
MO :
But don't you find it revolting to see this ?
JR :
Revolting is not the word. It is a deceiving situation, that's certain, unfortunate. A lot could be said on the matter but it is not for me to comment on the situation. The Attorney General for the Tribunal is in a better position to comment on it but I can only do so as a simple citizen disconnected from the situation and I do not particularly wish to express myself on this subject. In fact, I will have the same attitude as the French officer you interviewed - I don't have any choice in fact...
MO 10:49:05:
Today, the French policeman tries to maintain a certain distance. But he didn't always manage it in the past...
MO 10:49:14
Was there never any moment when this investigation was just too much for you?
JR :
I would not say « too much » but spending too much time concentrated on such a question can be intellectually exhausting. There comes a time when you have to know when to stop. I did not have any personal life throughout this investigation, because I was entirely focussed on the suject, my only conversations were connected to the question and I only saw people who were also working on the case.
MO :
It was an obsession.
JR :
Yes, it was a real obsession but it was above all a necessity. When you have to start on such a case where you are doing two things at the same time, you end up by knowing too much and finally, that accumulation of details becomes extremely painful emotionally.
MO :
Is that the price to pay for such an investigation ?
JR :
The price to pay is unknown because it can stretch over several years. And what does it matter? It is almost indecent to talk about oneself in such circumstances.
There is so much obvious suffering in this situation that it is impossible to talk about one's own
MO 10:50:39
In the coming months Jean Rene Ruez will be caught up again by his investigation. He will be called upon to stand in the witness box for the many trials of some officers who took part in the massacres at Srebenica.
But the French superintendant will really only hang up his hat when Radko Mladic and Radovan Karadzic finally have been tried too.
MO 10:51:05
The Americans have promised a 5 million dollars reward for the information that would lead to their arrest. But for the last 10 years these two men responsible for planning the genocide of Srebenica have never been hassled.