SOLDIERS OF CONSCIENCE 
Full Transcript for International / English Versions
TRT 54:25

NOTE TO READER:
OST= on screen text
OST Subtitle= onscreen subtitle in English version
All OST text is highlighted yellow.
All OST timecodes include fade in time for text (i.e. starting timecode is the last frame before text fade-in begins)




01:00:00:20    01:00:01:19
(man)
Forward march.

01:00:02:07  01:00:10:06
OST
A Luna Productions documentary

01:00:01:20    01:00:03:20
[heavy footsteps]

01:00:03:21    01:00:05:23
(man)
I joined the Army.

01:00:05:24    01:00:07:17
(all)
I joined the Army.

01:00:07:18    01:00:09:20
(man)
Just to get a haircut.

01:00:09:21    01:00:11:19
(all)
Just to get a haircut.

01:00:11:20    01:00:12:19
(man)
Haircut.

01:00:12:20    01:00:13:19
(all)
Haircut.

01:00:13:20    01:00:14:19
Learn to shoot.

01:00:14:20    01:00:15:19
(all)
Learn to shoot.

01:00:15:20    01:00:16:20
Buy a car.

01:00:16:21    01:00:17:21
(all)
Buy a car.

01:00:17:22    01:00:18:21
Get a job.

01:00:18:22    01:00:19:21
(all)
Get a job.

01:00:19:22    01:00:21:22
I joined the Army.

01:00:21:23    01:00:24:02
(all)
I joined the Army.

01:00:24:03    01:00:26:17
(Isom)
Reason why I joined the Army?

01:00:26:18    01:00:28:11
I made it easy for my recruiter.

01:00:28:12    01:00:30:08
I said, "Hey, I just want
to shoot a machine gun

01:00:30:09    01:00:31:08
and jump out of a plane."

01:00:31:09    01:00:32:28
He said, "Sign right here."

01:00:32:29    01:00:35:10
I was raised on American pie.

01:00:35:11    01:00:38:01
I'm a cradle conservative.

01:00:38:02    01:00:40:04
I was voted
Most Likely to Succeed,

01:00:40:05    01:00:42:04
Most Conservative.

01:00:42:05    01:00:46:01
My nickname among
a lot of my friends was G.I. Josh.

01:00:46:02    01:00:48:10
I wanted to defend my country.

01:00:48:11    01:00:51:08
I tried to enlist in the marines
right out of high school,

01:00:51:09    01:00:53:12
got hurt playing football,

01:00:53:13    01:00:55:13
so I joined the national guard
and then ended up

01:00:55:14    01:00:57:28
going to West Point and being
a commissioned officer.

01:00:57:29    01:01:00:12
Uh, to put it bluntly,
I'm a patriotic son of a gun.

01:01:00:13    01:01:01:14
I love this country.

01:01:01:15    01:01:02:27
It's done some great things for me.

01:01:02:28    01:01:04:10
I've had some
great opportunities.

01:01:04:11    01:01:07:16
Both my grandfathers fought
in World War I.

01:01:07:17    01:01:09:14
My father fought
in World War II.

01:01:09:15    01:01:11:19
I had an uncle
who fought in Korea,

01:01:11:20    01:01:14:05
cousins that fought
in Vietnam.

01:01:14:06    01:01:18:07
You know, so there's been
a family member in the military

01:01:18:08    01:01:20:06
since there's been a country.

01:01:21:06    01:01:24:05
[stirring martial music]

01:01:22:16  01:01:37:23
OST
Soldiers of Conscience

01:01:24:06    01:01:32:06
♪ ♪

01:01:43:26    01:01:49:06
(male narrator)
At some point, every soldier
has to face the question,

01:01:49:07    01:01:56:12
"Will I be able to kill
another human being in combat?"

01:01:56:13    01:02:00:02
This film is about
killing in war

01:02:00:03    01:02:06:14
and about some U.S. soldiers
who have chosen not to.

01:02:06:15    01:02:10:14
The evidence is that far more
soldiers refuse to kill

01:02:10:15    01:02:13:12
than we might expect.

01:02:13:13    01:02:17:28
In World War II, research
by the official U.S. Army Historian

01:02:17:29    01:02:20:09
Brigadier General
S.L.A. Marshall

01:02:20:10    01:02:24:00
revealed that among
U.S. soldiers in combat,

01:02:24:01    01:02:31:19
less than 25% actually fired
their weapons at the enemy.

01:02:31:20    01:02:34:12
Even with their own lives at risk,

01:02:34:13    01:02:40:19
75% did not try
to kill the enemy.

01:02:40:20    01:02:44:12
Marshall wrote,
"The average individual

01:02:44:13    01:02:46:25
"still has such
an inner resistance

01:02:46:26    01:02:51:18
"toward killing a fellow man
that he will not take life

01:02:51:19    01:02:56:08
"if it is possible to turn away
from that responsibility.

01:02:56:09    01:02:58:08
"At the vital point,

01:02:58:09    01:03:04:24
he becomes
a conscientious objector."

01:03:21:10    01:03:24:10
[gunshot]

01:03:28:22    01:03:35:22
(Mejia)
What is your duty as a soldier,
as a human being?

01:03:35:23    01:03:38:26
What are you going to live with?

01:03:38:27    01:03:40:09
You have to ask yourself,

01:03:40:10    01:03:42:08
"In what situations
would killing be right?"

01:03:44:19    01:03:47:08
It's just not something
you can put behind.

01:03:47:09    01:03:48:08
It stays with you.

01:03:48:09    01:03:51:28
You carry it in your heart.

01:03:56:03    01:03:59:00
(Kilner)
People are shocked
by how upsetting it is

01:03:59:01    01:04:03:02
to kill another human being.

01:04:03:03    01:04:05:27
It's not that soldiers
are somehow different

01:04:05:28    01:04:08:17
or it's not hard to kill.

01:04:08:18    01:04:11:00
Soldiers can kill only because

01:04:11:01    01:04:12:29
they have been trained
to do that.

01:04:13:06 01:04:15:00
OST subtitle
What’s the spirit of the bayonet?

01:04:15:02 01:04:18:09
OST subtitle
Kill. Kill. Kill without mercy.

01:04:18:10 01:04:20:06
OST subtitle
What makes the green grass grow?

01:04:20:07 01:04:24:18
OST subtitle
Blood. Blood. Blood makes the green grass grow.

01:04:24:19 01:04:28:15
OST subtitle
There are two types of bayonet fighters, the quick and the dead.

01:04:31:25    01:04:32:24
Which are you?

01:04:29:18    01:04:32:09
OST subtitle
The quick, Drill Sergeant.

01:04:35:14    01:04:36:23
Let me hear your war cry.

01:04:36:24    01:04:39:24
[all screaming]

01:04:49:15 01:04:56:05
OST
Basic Training, Fort Jackson

01:04:52:09    01:04:53:08
[gunshots]

01:04:53:09    01:04:54:08
Go, go.

01:04:54:09    01:04:55:28
No, no, no, right here,
right here.

01:04:55:29    01:04:56:28
Top of the hood.

01:04:56:29    01:04:57:28
There you go.

01:04:57:29    01:04:58:28
There's your target.

01:04:58:29    01:05:00:09
[gunshots]

01:05:00:10    01:05:02:07
(Isom)
You know, when the bullets
start flying,

01:05:02:08    01:05:04:08
it's not about God or country
or anything like that.

01:05:04:09    01:05:06:18
It's about the man
right next to your left and your right,

01:05:06:19    01:05:07:18
and that's about it.

01:05:07:19    01:05:10:19
[indistinct speech]

01:05:13:19    01:05:15:22
[gunshot]

01:05:15:23    01:05:16:22
Get that weapon up.

01:05:16:26    01:05:18:09
Get that weapon up.

01:05:18:10    01:05:20:29
Some people, though, they cope
with it differently than I do.

01:05:21:08 01:05:28:11
OST
Sergeant Jaime Isom
Iraq War Veteran, 82nd Airborne

01:05:21:00    01:05:24:13
They don't—they don't talk
about what they did over there

01:05:24:14    01:05:25:24
with their wives.

01:05:25:25    01:05:31:13
And probably the only time they do
is when they get drunk.

01:05:31:14    01:05:33:11
[gunshot]

01:05:33:12    01:05:35:17
I told my wife
what I did over there.

01:05:35:18    01:05:39:16
Of course, I got drunk too,
but it just happens.

01:05:39:17    01:05:41:11
Sometimes you just
have to let it out.

01:05:41:12    01:05:44:12
[gunshots]

01:05:46:22    01:05:49:22
[indistinct shouting]

01:05:52:08    01:05:54:00
[gunfire]

01:05:54:01    01:05:55:21
Throw your grenade;
throw your grenade.

01:05:55:22    01:05:58:22
[man shouts indistinctly]

01:06:06:00    01:06:08:02
(Isom)
While I was over there—

01:06:08:03    01:06:13:16
me, I had to go shoot
a ten-year-old boy over there.

01:06:13:17    01:06:16:17
[explosion]

01:06:19:00    01:06:21:16
He was throwing grenades
at my squad.

01:06:21:17    01:06:24:07
If he threw that grenade,
it would have been

01:06:24:08    01:06:25:13
maybe five or six—

01:06:25:14    01:06:27:11
maybe the entire squad
would have been

01:06:27:12    01:06:30:27
either killed or wounded
or just one kid.

01:06:30:28    01:06:34:15
And that's something—
that's something that, you know,

01:06:34:16    01:06:35:19
that I made the decision,

01:06:35:20    01:06:37:14
because I was the person
in charge at that time.

01:06:37:15    01:06:39:13
And I got no regrets about it.

01:06:39:14    01:06:42:22
But looking back at it, though,
it's like the demons come back.

01:06:46:14    01:06:48:07
That's where it haunts you.

01:06:52:10    01:06:56:26
[flames crackling]

01:06:56:27    01:06:58:22
I'm not saying that, you know—

01:06:58:23    01:07:02:01
we are doing the right thing
over there, by far.

01:07:02:02    01:07:05:20
It's just...

01:07:05:21    01:07:10:04
people just don't understand
what it's like to be over there.

01:07:10:05    01:07:13:05
[engine rumbling]

01:07:20:29    01:07:24:18
(Kilner)
You know, we recruit people
to serve their country and to kill.

01:07:24:19    01:07:26:07
We train them how to kill.

01:07:26:08    01:07:29:10
We as officers develop
the orders for them to kill.

01:07:28:20 01:07:37:02
OST
Major Pete Kilner
West Point Professor
former Infantry Company Commander, 82nd Airborme

01:07:29:11    01:07:32:00
We'll give them awards
or pat them on the back

01:07:32:01    01:07:33:26
a lot of times or, you know,

01:07:33:27    01:07:36:29
credit them for being effective
fighters and killers,

01:07:37:00    01:07:39:15
but we never explain to them
why it's okay

01:07:39:16    01:07:43:26
so that when they do what they've
been trained so well to do,

01:07:43:27    01:07:46:01
they can be at peace
with their consciences

01:07:46:02    01:07:47:04
for the rest of their lives.

01:07:48:20    01:07:50:13
Kill, kill, kill!

01:07:50:14    01:07:52:11
(all)
Kill!

01:07:52:12    01:07:55:20
Has anyone heard
of S.L.A. Marshall,

01:07:53:03 01:07:57:15
OST
ROTC Seminar
State College, Pennsylvania

01:07:55:21    01:07:57:03
Men Against Fire?

01:07:57:04    01:08:00:13
S.L.A. Marshall was the Army's
first real historian.

01:08:00:14    01:08:02:02
He was the head
of the history department

01:08:02:03    01:08:04:09
during World War II.

01:08:04:10    01:08:05:22
One thing he noticed

01:08:05:23    01:08:08:00
is that in most units,

01:08:08:01    01:08:12:23
only one in four people
tried to kill the enemy.

01:08:12:24    01:08:15:23
He says most people,
at the point of looking down

01:08:15:24    01:08:18:07
and time to pull the trigger
became conscientious objectors.

01:08:18:08    01:08:20:17
And there's a lot of—
once he reported that,

01:08:20:18    01:08:22:12
there was a lot of people coming
out and saying,

01:08:22:13    01:08:24:11
"Yeah, that was my experience.

01:08:24:12    01:08:25:13
I just couldn't kill."

01:08:25:14    01:08:27:06
Let's go.
Follow me.

01:08:27:07    01:08:29:12
(Kilner)
So the Army decided,
"Well, that's not good."

01:08:29:13    01:08:30:18
So the Army said,

01:08:30:19    01:08:32:06
"Okay, how do we help them
overcome this?"

01:08:32:07    01:08:33:28
[distant gunfire]

01:08:33:29    01:08:36:07
And they said,
"Let's condition people.

01:08:36:08    01:08:40:14
So, the idea is
reflexive fire training.

01:08:40:15    01:08:42:19
As soon as that target pops up,
you fire the weapon.

01:08:42:20    01:08:43:29
[gunshot]

01:08:44:00    01:08:46:03
And just conditioning,
conditioning, conditioning.

01:08:46:04    01:08:47:21
Targets keep coming up,
you take 'em out.

01:08:47:22    01:08:48:23
Let's go.

01:08:48:24    01:08:51:04
Keep shooting.
Keep shooting.

01:08:51:05    01:08:52:28
(man)
Let's go.
Kill that thing.

01:08:52:29    01:08:55:21
(Kilner)
What they want people to do is,
they're so trained, they just—

01:08:55:22    01:08:56:23
"boom, boom,"
dead.

01:08:56:24    01:08:58:10
All right, now where is
the next target?

01:08:58:11    01:08:59:10
[gunshots]

01:08:59:11    01:09:00:10
And that's good.

01:09:00:11    01:09:01:15
It becomes muscle memory.

01:09:01:16    01:09:03:02
You don't think about it;
you just do it.

01:09:03:03    01:09:04:06
(man)
Keep shooting.

01:09:04:07    01:09:05:24
You raise, and you shoot
as fast as you can.

01:09:05:25    01:09:06:24
(man)
Hit them targets.

01:09:06:25    01:09:08:03
Kill them.

01:09:08:04    01:09:10:23
[gunshots]

01:09:10:24    01:09:17:24
(Kilner)
So firing rates went up to, like,
50% to 60% during the Korean War

01:09:17:25    01:09:19:19
as they introduced
this kind of training,

01:09:19:20    01:09:24:08
85% to 90%
in the Vietnam War.

01:09:24:09    01:09:27:05
And I haven't seen any numbers
on the current war,

01:09:27:06    01:09:30:13
but I talk to a whole lot
of company commanders

01:09:30:14    01:09:33:03
and platoon leaders,
and people say, "Whoa."

01:09:33:04    01:09:35:07
People are more lethal
than they ever imagined.

01:09:35:08    01:09:38:08
[gunfire]

01:09:50:16    01:09:53:09
The problem
with reflexive fire training is,

01:09:53:10    01:09:55:24
it does bypass

01:09:55:25    01:09:58:21
their moral
decision making process.

01:09:58:22    01:10:01:13
So whereas in previous wars,
before we had this kind of training,

01:10:01:14    01:10:04:14
a soldier would look at a target
and think through, you know—

01:10:04:15    01:10:07:13
thinking through,
"Should I shoot this person?

01:10:07:14    01:10:08:18
Okay, now I'm going to shoot."

01:10:08:19    01:10:09:18
Well, that takes time.

01:10:09:19    01:10:11:14
That's dangerous.

01:10:11:15    01:10:13:13
When you train them reflexively,

01:10:13:14    01:10:16:05
they learn to make those decisions
much more quickly,

01:10:16:06    01:10:18:15
but the price of that is,
they're not thinking through

01:10:18:16    01:10:21:28
the great moral decision
of killing another human being.

01:10:21:29    01:10:24:29
[explosions]

01:10:32:21    01:10:34:25
(Casteel)
"We sleep comfortably
in our beds at night,

01:10:34:26    01:10:37:29
because violent men
do violence on our behalf."

01:10:41:01    01:10:42:19
When I first read that,

01:10:42:20    01:10:43:26
I thought to myself,

01:10:43:27    01:10:46:03
"I am the person
who allows people

01:10:46:04    01:10:49:23
to sleep comfortably
in their beds at night."

01:10:49:24    01:10:52:06
But I hadn't actually gone
to do the violence yet.

01:10:52:20 01:11:03:18
OST
Joshua Casteel
Iraq War Veteran, 202nd Military Intelligence

01:10:58:21    01:11:00:19
I grew up in an evangelical household,

01:11:00:20    01:11:03:03
an evangelical
Christian household.

01:11:03:04    01:11:07:13
I grew up hearing stories
about the nobility of service.

01:11:07:14    01:11:11:02
I was the president
of the Young Republicans.

01:11:11:03    01:11:16:11
I used to carry a copy
of the Constitution around with me.

01:11:16:12    01:11:19:06
I received a four-year
ROTC scholarship

01:11:19:07    01:11:23:16
and an appointment
to West Point.

01:11:23:17    01:11:28:02
In 2004, I was deployed to Iraq.

01:11:28:20 01:11:33:13
OST
Frontlines Conference
University of California, Berkeley

01:11:28:03    01:11:32:16
[cheers and applause]

01:11:32:17    01:11:35:22
War is not fought
by or for ideas.

01:11:35:23    01:11:39:05
It is fought by individual
persons who possess human will.

01:11:39:06    01:11:42:13
[gunshots and explosions]

01:11:46:26    01:11:48:22
[metallic clicking]

01:11:48:23    01:11:51:12
Liberty and democracy
were not necessarily

01:11:51:13    01:11:52:17
to the forefront of my mind

01:11:52:18    01:11:56:20
when I was first told
to lock and load my M16.

01:11:56:21    01:11:58:24
I was the only person
to raise my hand

01:11:58:25    01:12:04:27
when the convoy commander asked,
"Who's never done this before?"

01:12:04:28    01:12:07:15
He looked me in the eyes,
and he said,

01:12:07:16    01:12:10:18
"When you move your selector lever
from safe to semi,

01:12:10:19    01:12:14:08
you're shooting to kill."

01:12:14:09    01:12:19:23
I stuck my M16
out the bed of a 2-ton truck.

01:12:19:24    01:12:23:11
I was thinking about,
"What's my field of fire?

01:12:23:12    01:12:25:20
"Who's on the side of the road?

01:12:25:21    01:12:28:15
Who's that moving
on top of a building?"

01:12:28:16    01:12:31:01
I was acting on instinct,

01:12:31:02    01:12:33:01
which is usually the mode
that soldiers go into

01:12:33:02    01:12:34:18
when they enter a combat zone.

01:12:34:19    01:12:37:20
[explosion]

01:12:37:21    01:12:41:16
[footsteps]

01:12:41:17    01:12:43:16
And you think to yourself,

01:12:43:17    01:12:45:02
"When are there situations

01:12:45:03    01:12:48:19
in which loyalty
to a nation-state

01:12:48:20    01:12:52:20
comes into conflict
with loyalty to the kingdom of God?"

01:12:52:21    01:12:55:21
[slow footsteps]

01:13:00:19    01:13:03:19
[gunshot]

01:13:09:18    01:13:15:14
And for a kid who grew up
in evangelical Christianity,

01:13:15:15    01:13:17:17
as much as we
might be patriotic,

01:13:17:18    01:13:19:16
there's something
that doesn't quite sit right.

01:13:22:13    01:13:25:01
I was thinking about the stories
in Sunday school

01:13:25:02    01:13:31:08
of a gentle Jesus.

01:13:31:09    01:13:32:27
In the Gospels, it says,

01:13:32:28    01:13:34:18
"If a man strikes you
on the left cheek,

01:13:34:19    01:13:37:11
turn him also your right."

01:13:39:25    01:13:44:20
I had started to ask questions
about redemption.

01:13:44:21    01:13:49:14
What would it look like if that
same determination that's used

01:13:49:15    01:13:54:09
to defeat the enemy
is used to redeem the enemy?

01:14:05:29    01:14:09:26
And then 9/11 happened.

01:14:09:27    01:14:13:18
I had to act.

01:14:13:19    01:14:16:00
I focused on duty.

01:14:16:01    01:14:20:04
I focused on the job at hand.

01:14:20:05    01:14:24:02
And the following summer,

01:14:24:03    01:14:28:11
I started training
in the art of interrogation.

01:14:30:24    01:14:35:04
And I was pretty good at it.

01:14:35:05    01:14:36:05
(man)
Sit.

01:14:52:22  01:15:02:11
OST
In June 2004, Joshua Casteel
became an interrogator in Abu Ghraib prison -
2 months after the prisoner abuse scandal became news.

01:15:04:06    01:15:07:20
(Kilner)
We have let
the antiwar people

01:15:07:21    01:15:11:01
claim the talk
of morality in war.

01:15:11:02    01:15:13:23
So when—
and they literally get offended

01:15:13:24    01:15:17:09
when a soldier talks about doing
the moral justification

01:15:17:10    01:15:18:22
or doing
what's morally right.

01:15:18:23    01:15:21:20
They think,
"No, war is immoral,

01:15:21:21    01:15:24:27
"and so the only person
who can talk about the morality in war,

01:15:24:28    01:15:27:16
the morality of war
are those who oppose war."

01:15:27:17    01:15:29:17
And that's ridiculous,
because the million people

01:15:29:18    01:15:32:00
who are out defending our country,
fighting our wars,

01:15:32:01    01:15:35:02
and the millions who have
done it throughout history

01:15:35:03    01:15:36:10
are not immoral people.

01:15:37:20    01:15:40:26
No one likes to kill—
no healthy person.

01:15:40:27    01:15:43:02
But it needs to be done.

01:15:43:03    01:15:44:11
It may be nasty.

01:15:44:12    01:15:48:05
It may be unpleasant,
but the alternative's worse.

01:15:48:06    01:15:51:08
My involvement in the issue
of the morality of killing

01:15:51:09    01:15:53:24
started when the army
gave me the chance

01:15:51:23 01:15:56:17
OST
Major Pete Kilner
West Point Professor
former Infantry Company Commander

01:15:53:25    01:15:57:08
to get a master's degree
in philosophy.

01:15:57:09    01:16:00:04
And first,
I've never killed anyone,

01:16:00:05    01:16:02:18
but I've talked
with a lot of people who have.

01:16:02:19    01:16:04:23
I'm in the profession
where that's a regular part

01:16:04:24    01:16:06:11
of business right now,

01:16:06:12    01:16:10:22
and I decided,
I really want to understand this better.

01:16:10:23    01:16:12:12
But one of the things
I did then

01:16:12:13    01:16:15:13
to try to just get new ideas was,

01:16:15:14    01:16:17:16
I put a query into
ARMY Magazine,

01:16:17:17    01:16:19:01
and I wrote and said,

01:16:19:02    01:16:23:03
"If you've killed anyone
in war, in combat,

01:16:23:04    01:16:25:21
I would be very interested
to hear how you justify it."

01:16:25:22    01:16:28:22
Ooh, the responses that got.

01:16:28:23    01:16:30:00
Half of them were,

01:16:30:01    01:16:32:24
"Amen, someone needs to be
talking about this.

01:16:32:25    01:16:34:29
This is great that an officer's
talking about it."

01:16:35:00    01:16:37:11
And the other half were,
"What the hell, Captain?

01:16:37:12    01:16:39:00
"Don't you have
anything more to do?

01:16:39:01    01:16:40:13
"How dare you question
the morality

01:16:40:14    01:16:41:28
of what we're doing?"

01:16:41:29    01:16:43:11
We don't talk about it.

01:16:43:12    01:16:45:03
It's a taboo topic.

01:16:45:04    01:16:49:20
Soldiers, it's sort of their inner pain,
very often, that they live with.

01:16:49:21    01:16:54:09
This person who wrote
is a Vietnam veteran

01:16:54:10    01:16:56:02
who talked about—
he said,

01:16:56:03    01:16:58:11
"The three fears that were
in our 20-year-old minds

01:16:58:12    01:17:00:18
"back then in the jungle.

01:17:00:19    01:17:04:20
"One: Will I be able to stand up
to combat when the bullets fly?

01:17:04:21    01:17:07:00
Two: Will I survive?"

01:17:07:01    01:17:11:09
But he mentions a third one,
and he described this fear as,

01:17:11:10    01:17:13:00
"Now that I've been
to the heart of darkness

01:17:13:01    01:17:15:19
"and done things
that I supremely regret,

01:17:15:20    01:17:20:18
will I ever again be the person
that I used to like?"

01:17:20:19    01:17:23:04
And he said, "This turns out
to be the hardest question,

01:17:23:05    01:17:28:26
and it may go unanswered
for the rest of our lives."

01:17:31:21    01:17:32:25
He shared this story, he says,

01:17:32:26    01:17:37:07
"35 years after a life-changing
experience."

01:17:37:08    01:17:40:00
So still looking for a way,
I think,

01:17:40:01    01:17:42:01
to make sense of the experience
of killing

01:17:42:02    01:17:47:14
on behalf of all of us,
on behalf of his country.

01:17:48:20    01:17:51:00
Someday you'll be alone.

01:17:51:01    01:17:52:26
(all)
Someday you'll be alone.

01:17:52:27    01:17:54:27
Way out there
in a combat zone.

01:17:54:28    01:17:56:27
(all)
Way out there
in a combat zone.

01:17:56:28    01:17:58:28
(man)
Bullets flying all around.

01:17:58:29    01:18:00:26
(all)
Bullets flying all around.

01:18:00:27    01:18:02:23
(man)
Keep your head low
to the ground.

01:18:02:24    01:18:05:09
(all)
Keep your head low
to the ground.

01:18:05:10    01:18:07:06
When you're out there
in the middle of combat,

01:18:07:07    01:18:10:01
sometimes it's kill
or be killed.

01:18:10:02    01:18:13:01
And some people,

01:18:13:02    01:18:16:15
when you get into the first battle

01:18:16:16    01:18:18:18
and you actually wound
or kill someone,

01:18:18:19    01:18:20:02
it start messing with their head

01:18:19:09 01:18:25:04
OST
Staff Sgt. Thomas H. Washington
Iraq War Veteran, 2-7 Calvary

01:18:20:03    01:18:22:10
and they start having
mixed feelings

01:18:22:11    01:18:24:27
about being in the situation,
and that causes them—

01:18:24:28    01:18:26:19
the stress to start building up.

01:18:26:20    01:18:28:18
And then it's just like shaking
up a pop bottle

01:18:28:19    01:18:29:23
with your thumb over it.

01:18:29:24    01:18:31:19
It just keep building
and keep building.

01:18:31:20    01:18:33:22
See that enemy
dressed in black?

01:18:33:23    01:18:35:24
(all)
See that enemy
dressed in black?

01:18:35:25    01:18:37:19
Got my bayonet
in his back.

01:18:37:20    01:18:38:29
(all)
Got my bayonet
in his back.

01:18:39:00    01:18:40:26
(Washington)
When I talk to my family about it,

01:18:40:27    01:18:43:14
they ask, "Hey, have you ever
took anyone's life before?"

01:18:43:15    01:18:45:25
And you say, "Yes, I have taken
someone's life before."

01:18:45:26    01:18:47:15
Then they'll skip the subject.

01:18:47:16    01:18:51:07
(all)
Shoot to kill.

01:18:52:16    01:18:54:17
(Washington)
Like, "Yeah that's a tragedy."

01:18:54:18    01:18:59:22
But they really don't want
to hear it.

01:18:59:23    01:19:03:00
No one really wants
to take anyone's life.

01:19:03:01    01:19:07:17
Sometimes it can't be helped
or prevented.

01:19:07:18    01:19:10:04
And sometimes you got to just,

01:19:10:05    01:19:12:11
"Look, it's either me
or that person."

01:19:25:01    01:19:28:01
[insects buzzing]

01:19:42:12    01:19:48:07
(Benderman)
Duty, honor, country.

01:19:48:08    01:19:49:28
When you stand up there

01:19:49:29    01:19:51:24
and you swear to defend
the Constitution,

01:19:50:00 01:19:59:04
OST
Kevin Benderman
Iraq War Veteran, 3rd Infantry

01:19:51:25    01:19:54:04
to me,
that's exactly what it means.

01:19:54:05    01:19:58:07
I mean, you are going
to protect the ideals

01:19:58:08    01:20:04:23
that founded your country:
freedom.

01:20:04:24    01:20:07:26
[rockets firing]

01:20:07:27    01:20:10:12
I was in during
the Persian Gulf War,

01:20:10:13    01:20:13:16
but I wasn't deployed
to the war.

01:20:13:17    01:20:19:03
And so I kind of felt like
I hadn't fulfilled my obligation.

01:20:19:04    01:20:26:02
So I reenlisted
in June of 2000.

01:20:26:03    01:20:33:15
In March 2003,
I was deployed to Iraq.

01:20:33:16    01:20:35:06
This is just different places
of where I was

01:20:35:07    01:20:37:06
while I was over there.

01:20:37:07    01:20:39:29
Some of them were in Kuwait
before we crossed into Iraq,

01:20:40:00    01:20:46:06
and some of them were
after we were there.

01:20:46:07    01:20:49:13
My father, who fought
in World War II,

01:20:49:14    01:20:52:22
he tried to tell me
war is not as glamorous

01:20:52:23    01:20:55:02
as they make it out to be.

01:20:57:11    01:21:00:21
But I was too stubborn
and bullheaded to listen.

01:21:04:00    01:21:07:15
Boy, I asked for it,
and I really found out.

01:21:07:16    01:21:12:26
I saw more
than I ever wanted to see.

01:21:12:27    01:21:16:14
[traffic noises]

01:21:16:15    01:21:20:02
[indistinct shouting]

01:21:25:10    01:21:28:10
[speaking native language]

01:21:30:03    01:21:31:09
[gunshot]

01:21:31:10    01:21:34:20
[gunshots]

01:21:34:21    01:21:36:25
I don't know that
I can describe.

01:21:36:26    01:21:40:01
You know, it's hard.

01:21:40:02    01:21:42:21
It's hard to put it in words.

01:21:44:13    01:21:45:12
Open the door.

01:21:45:13    01:21:46:17
Open the door.

01:21:46:18    01:21:47:17
Get your hands up.

01:21:47:18    01:21:49:04
(man)
Okay, we got two doors.

01:21:49:05    01:21:52:05
[indistinct shouting]

01:21:55:19    01:21:56:27
(man)
Yeah, clear the house now.

01:21:56:28    01:21:57:29
(man)
No one in there.

01:21:58:00    01:21:59:05
No one in there?

01:21:59:06    01:22:00:20
[crying]

01:22:00:21    01:22:03:27
(man)
Just have a seat
right there.

01:22:03:28    01:22:07:14
[men shouting]

01:22:07:15    01:22:10:21
(man)
Hey, get in there.

01:22:10:22    01:22:13:22
[crying]

01:22:15:27    01:22:18:16
(man)
It's okay. It's okay.

01:22:18:17    01:22:21:12
(man)
Rodriguez, you come here.

01:22:21:13    01:22:24:07
(man)
Get back in the street.

01:22:24:08    01:22:26:20
Hey, let's sweep on down straight,

01:22:26:21    01:22:28:15
and then we'll come up
one of these side alleys.

01:22:28:16    01:22:29:27
(man)
Roger.

01:22:29:28    01:22:32:19
Hey, go ahead, get back
in [...] patrol formation.

01:22:32:20    01:22:35:05
Hurry up.

01:22:36:23    01:22:40:14
(Benderman)
You're seeing how war
affects the civilians

01:22:40:15    01:22:43:00
that are in the area.

01:22:43:01    01:22:46:28
Every house you look at has got bombs,
you know, craters in it

01:22:46:29    01:22:50:00
or bullet holes in it,

01:22:50:01    01:22:53:11
and just in general
how it affects people

01:22:53:12    01:22:56:19
and how it makes them
put all their humanity aside

01:22:56:20    01:23:00:16
in order to be able to survive
in a war zone.

01:23:02:23    01:23:08:20
And then you see the dead,
the injured.

01:23:08:21    01:23:11:05
You stand
at the mass graves,

01:23:11:06    01:23:16:04
and you smell the decomposing
bodies that are there.

01:23:16:05    01:23:18:28
You see the young girl
that stands

01:23:18:29    01:23:21:25
along the side of the road
with her arm burned,

01:23:21:26    01:23:24:20
third-degree burns,
and you want to help her,

01:23:24:21    01:23:25:22
but you can't do it

01:23:25:23    01:23:28:07
because you're
in the middle of a war.

01:23:28:08    01:23:31:26
And you see all that stuff,
and you see how it affects you,

01:23:31:27    01:23:33:26
and you see how it affects
everyone around you,

01:23:33:27    01:23:35:07
and you just say,
"You know what?

01:23:35:08    01:23:37:20
Why are we even
doing this anymore?"

01:23:46:00    01:23:46:29
We all have a conscience.

01:23:46:04 01:23:52:11
OST
Camilo Mejia
Iraq War Veteran, 124th Infantry

01:23:47:00    01:23:49:14
We all have, you know, a sense

01:23:49:15    01:23:51:01
that tells us
between right and wrong.

01:23:53:07    01:23:56:18
When I joined the military,
I was 19.

01:23:56:19    01:23:59:15
And I was like, "Okay,
so if we end up going to war,

01:23:59:16    01:24:01:05
"It's going to be
for a good cause.

01:24:01:06    01:24:02:22
"You know, if we end up
going to war,

01:24:02:23    01:24:04:24
it's going to be to bring
freedom to other lands."

01:24:04:25    01:24:08:04
[engines rumbling]

01:24:08:05    01:24:11:11
And we started gearing up
to go to Iraq.

01:24:11:12    01:24:13:28
And it was a war
that I opposed politically

01:24:13:29    01:24:16:26
but not very personally.

01:24:16:27    01:24:18:08
I went to Iraq thinking

01:24:18:09    01:24:20:11
that I could push
my principles aside

01:24:20:12    01:24:25:11
and then get the war over with,
put it behind me, move on.

01:24:25:12    01:24:30:19
But nothing ever prepares you
for the reality of war.

01:24:30:20    01:24:33:01
[metallic crashing]

01:24:33:02    01:24:34:02
Go, go, go.

01:24:34:03    01:24:35:13
(man)
Get the [...] on the ground.

01:24:37:13    01:24:39:14
Get down there now!

01:24:37:22 01:24:41:13
OST Subtitle
Welcome, welcome, welcome.

01:24:41:13  01:24:43:03
OST Subtitle
No English.  No English

01:24:39:15    01:24:41:07
Now!

01:24:41:08    01:24:42:17
You want me to shoot him
in the leg?

01:24:42:18    01:24:43:17
I will shoot you.

01:24:43:18    01:24:44:17
No English, no English.

01:24:44:18    01:24:47:11
Shut the [...] up.

01:24:47:12    01:24:50:26
[men shouting]

01:24:50:27    01:24:52:25
Shut the [...] up.

01:24:52:26    01:24:54:11
Welcome, welcome, welcome.

01:24:54:12    01:24:55:11
Shut up!

01:24:55:12    01:24:56:12
Welcome.

01:24:56:13    01:24:59:11
(man)
Shut up!

01:24:59:12    01:25:02:14
(Mejia)
Nothing ever prepares you
for going to Iraq

01:25:02:15    01:25:06:02
and seeing the destruction
of an entire nation.

01:25:06:03    01:25:09:18
Nothing ever prepares you for,
you know,

01:25:09:19    01:25:13:12
the unmeasured killing
of civilians.

01:25:13:13    01:25:15:29
Nothing ever prepares you
for what that does to you

01:25:16:00    01:25:18:15
as a human being, you know,
to kill an innocent person.

01:25:25:16    01:25:29:11
[muffled explosions]

01:25:29:12    01:25:31:04
Nothing's going to really
prepare you

01:25:31:05    01:25:33:25
for the level of destruction
that you bring upon a nation

01:25:33:26    01:25:37:05
and that you bring upon yourself
for being a part of it.

01:25:41:00    01:25:44:07
And yet I have—
I have a conscience, you know,

01:25:44:08    01:25:46:28
which goes way beyond any law.

01:25:46:29    01:25:49:06
It goes way beyond any order
that I could receive.

01:26:00:16    01:26:02:27
[gunfire]

01:26:02:28    01:26:03:27
(man)
One more time.

01:26:03:28    01:26:06:28
[gunfire]

01:26:08:07    01:26:09:24
(Savage)
I don't care how old you get.

01:26:09:25    01:26:12:20
If you're in this environment
firing these weapons, it's fun.

01:26:11:12 01:26:16:04
OST
1st Sgt. Todd Savage
Iraq War Veteran, 1-24th Infantry

01:26:12:21    01:26:14:16
It's a hoot,
to be honest with you.

01:26:14:17    01:26:15:28
[gunfire]

01:26:15:29    01:26:17:21
The 50-caliber machine gun,

01:26:17:22    01:26:20:04
it's a very, very, very
effective weapon.

01:26:20:05    01:26:23:06
It's got a range
of 1,800 meters.

01:26:23:07    01:26:26:04
It'll blow holes through walls.

01:26:26:05    01:26:28:29
Personnel-wise,
you don't have a chance.

01:26:29:00    01:26:31:13
If you're hit by a bullet
from this weapon, there's—

01:26:31:14    01:26:32:13
it's devastating.

01:26:32:14    01:26:35:20
It's pretty gruesome, actually.

01:26:35:21    01:26:38:14
(man)
You saw that?

01:26:38:15    01:26:40:19
Yes, sir.
So...

01:26:40:20    01:26:43:02
[gunshots]

01:26:43:03    01:26:46:24
There's no civilian job
that compares to an infantryman.

01:26:46:25    01:26:48:29
You're training
how to kill people.

01:26:49:00    01:26:50:14
[gunfire]

01:26:50:15    01:26:52:08
I have no absolutely
no hesitation about it.

01:26:52:09    01:26:54:17
It's just what I—
it's what I do.

01:26:54:18    01:26:55:29
It's my job.

01:26:56:00    01:26:57:17
How do I feel afterwards?

01:26:57:18    01:27:02:19
It's—you know, hey,
I look at it like this.

01:27:02:20    01:27:04:25
The people on the other side
are soldiers too.

01:27:04:26    01:27:06:15
And soldiers do
what soldiers do.

01:27:06:16    01:27:07:20
And they're trying to kill us.

01:27:07:21    01:27:08:23
We're trying to kill them.

01:27:08:24    01:27:12:09
And that's just
the ugly face of war.

01:27:22:02    01:27:28:16
(Mejia)
You know, a lot of the things
that happened in Iraq,

01:27:28:17    01:27:33:27
like when people ask me
if I killed anybody—

01:27:33:28    01:27:35:03
see, war is not as clear-cut

01:27:35:04    01:27:36:18
as they portray it
in the movies.

01:27:43:00    01:27:44:09
There was this one time

01:27:44:10    01:27:47:25
we were positioned
on this rooftop.

01:27:51:28    01:27:55:09
It was like a political protest
that turned violent.

01:27:56:28    01:28:02:12
Everyone is quiet,
and this young man emerges,

01:28:02:13    01:28:05:23
and he's got something
in his hand.

01:28:08:12    01:28:12:26
And I know that it's a grenade.

01:28:12:27    01:28:15:21
But I also know
that he can't do anything to us,

01:28:15:22    01:28:16:23
because he's too far.

01:28:16:24    01:28:19:24
[people shouting in distance]

01:28:26:22    01:28:28:08
Everything
that I'm describing to you,

01:28:28:09    01:28:33:05
I'm looking through the rear
aperture of my M16 sight.

01:28:37:07    01:28:42:09
So it's a very, very, very
intense moment.

01:28:42:10    01:28:44:23
And, um...

01:28:44:24    01:28:47:24
[gunfire]

01:28:50:20    01:28:54:09
And...

01:28:56:03    01:28:58:13
I don't remember
squeezing the trigger,

01:28:58:14    01:29:01:23
and I don't remember
seeing him go down.

01:29:01:24    01:29:03:25
All I remember is that
we shot at him,

01:29:03:26    01:29:06:12
and the next image
that I have is, you know,

01:29:06:13    01:29:08:06
two men came from the crowd

01:29:08:07    01:29:12:05
and grabbed him by the shoulders
and pulled him

01:29:12:06    01:29:14:10
through a puddle of blood.

01:29:18:10    01:29:21:01
And then I remember that after
that mission was over, you know,

01:29:21:02    01:29:23:16
before we moved on
to our next mission, you know,

01:29:23:17    01:29:25:22
I went into a dark room
by myself,

01:29:25:23    01:29:29:17
and I pulled out my magazine,
and I counted the bullets,

01:29:29:18    01:29:33:13
and I realized that I had fired
eleven bullets at him.

01:29:33:14    01:29:36:14
And, um...

01:29:48:07    01:29:51:07
And it changes you.

01:30:07:05    01:30:09:18
[explosions]

01:30:09:19    01:30:12:17
It's really hard to sit down
and make moral decisions

01:30:12:18    01:30:13:27
when you're trying
to stay alive.

01:30:13:28    01:30:15:05
[gunshots]

01:30:15:06    01:30:17:15
Somebody shoots at you,
you immediately take cover.

01:30:17:16    01:30:19:17
You have your finger
on the safety.

01:30:19:18    01:30:21:14
Immediately, it goes to fire.

01:30:21:15    01:30:23:23
You know, you do everything
without even thinking about it.

01:30:23:24    01:30:26:20
[gunshots]

01:30:26:21    01:30:30:18
But then I came home
on a two-week leave,

01:30:30:19    01:30:33:13
and removed
from that dangerous situation,

01:30:33:14    01:30:35:13
removed from that pressure,

01:30:35:14    01:30:44:08
I started thinking about the war,
looking for answers.

01:30:44:09    01:30:47:07
And, um...

01:30:47:08    01:30:49:08
something changed my life.

01:30:51:20    01:30:53:22
I began to object
in a more profound,

01:30:53:23    01:31:00:02
personal, spiritual way to war.

01:31:00:03    01:31:03:15
And so I made a commitment

01:31:03:16    01:31:05:17
that I was
a conscientious objector

01:31:05:18    01:31:06:24
and that I wasn't going back.

01:31:11:02    01:31:13:12
And it wasn't a decision that
took place overnight, you know.

01:31:13:13    01:31:16:22
It was a painful process,
because it's healing,

01:31:16:23    01:31:22:07
but it could destroy you.

01:31:22:08    01:31:26:03
There's all this fear;
there's this regret;

01:31:26:04    01:31:28:21
there's this—
the issue of camaraderie and,

01:31:28:22    01:31:31:21
you know, your buddies in war

01:31:31:22    01:31:35:13
and also the fear of punishment
and all this guilt

01:31:35:14    01:31:37:27
and being tried
by a court-martial.

01:31:37:28    01:31:41:24
It's just, the words,
"court-martial,"

01:31:41:25    01:31:44:29
you know, it's, like,
so evil and so bad.

01:31:45:00    01:31:47:21
[metallic slam]

01:31:47:22    01:31:49:12
All these horrible images,
you know,

01:31:49:13    01:31:51:24
come to you and, like, you know,

01:31:51:25    01:31:53:08
being a coward
and being a traitor

01:31:53:09    01:31:55:19
and, you know,
losing your freedom,

01:31:55:20    01:31:57:27
and ending up in a jail.

01:31:57:28    01:32:06:17
And then, suddenly, you know,
I say, you know,

01:32:06:18    01:32:08:10
"I'm not going to go to war.

01:32:08:11    01:32:10:18
"I'm not going to go back
to that.

01:32:10:19    01:32:14:22
"I'm not going to go back
to obey everything that I'm told,

01:32:14:23    01:32:16:26
"keeping my mouth shut

01:32:16:27    01:32:18:22
"and ignoring the fact
that I have a conscience.

01:32:18:23    01:32:23:18
"I'm going to take a stand,
and I'm going to say, 'No.

01:32:23:19    01:32:28:13
I'm not going back
to this war.'"

01:32:36:22    01:32:40:05
(Stephens)
When one applies for
conscientious objector status,

01:32:40:06    01:32:42:22
there is a regulation
that fully guides a soldier

01:32:42:23    01:32:46:06
through the process.

01:32:49:00    01:32:51:22
The soldier makes
a formal application

01:32:51:23    01:32:55:28
to his chain of command
requesting conscientious objector status.

01:33:00:23    01:33:02:25
The soldier has
a burden of proof.

01:33:02:26    01:33:07:01
The soldier has to prove
that the beliefs are genuine,

01:33:07:02    01:33:10:17
that the beliefs are real,
that the beliefs crystallized

01:33:10:18    01:33:12:19
after the soldier came
on active duty.

01:33:12:20    01:33:15:29
The soldier is interviewed
by the chain of command,

01:33:16:00    01:33:19:08
by a chaplain, by a person
through mental health,

01:33:19:09    01:33:22:21
and they compile
a complete application

01:33:22:22    01:33:24:27
documenting their beliefs

01:33:24:28    01:33:27:28
and why they think they should be
a conscientious objector.

01:33:27:29    01:33:31:23
An independent investigating officer
is appointed.

01:33:31:24    01:33:35:20
Then the entire packet has to go
through the chain of command

01:33:35:21    01:33:39:00
and is ultimately reviewed
by a board of officers

01:33:39:01    01:33:41:07
at Headquarters,
Department of the Army.

01:33:41:08    01:33:43:03
And then ultimately,
a decision is made

01:33:43:04    01:33:46:07
whether or not the soldier
is a conscientious objector.

01:33:48:06  01:34:00:12
OST
The legal right to conscientious objection was established early in the history of the United Sates.  On July 18, 1775 one of the first laws passed by the Continental Congress exempted conscientious objectors from military duty.

01:33:56:28    01:33:59:28
[clock ticking]

01:34:01:14  01:34:06:03
OST
June 2, 2004 on 60 Minutes

01:34:02:12    01:34:06:08
(Rather)
Staff Sergeant Camilo Mejia
refused to return to Iraq.

01:34:06:09    01:34:08:10
He felt so strongly
about his decision

01:34:08:11    01:34:10:29
that he took the risky step
of going public

01:34:11:00    01:34:13:06
and talking to us
while still in hiding.

01:34:13:07    01:34:14:18
Are you a coward?

01:34:14:19    01:34:17:13
No, I'm not.

01:34:17:14    01:34:18:25
Why did this soldier go AWOL?

01:34:18:26    01:34:20:10
This soldier went AWOL,

01:34:20:11    01:34:22:25
because this soldier does not
think that this is a good war.

01:34:22:26    01:34:26:12
And when you look at the war and you look
at the reasons that took us to war

01:34:26:13    01:34:29:12
and you don't find
that any of the things

01:34:29:13    01:34:31:26
that we were told
that we were going to war for

01:34:31:27    01:34:34:11
turned out to be true,
when you don't find

01:34:34:12    01:34:36:05
that there were weapons
of mass destruction

01:34:36:06    01:34:37:18
and when you don't find

01:34:37:19    01:34:39:26
that there was a link between
Saddam Hussein and Al-Qaeda

01:34:39:27    01:34:42:01
and you see that you're not
helping the people

01:34:42:02    01:34:44:26
and you see that the people
don't want you there,

01:34:44:27    01:34:49:03
to me, there is no military contract
and no military duty

01:34:49:04    01:34:52:19
that is going to justify
being a part of that war.

01:34:52:20    01:34:54:15
And it just exploded,

01:34:54:16    01:34:56:01
because I was the first
combat veteran

01:34:56:02    01:34:57:12
to come back from Iraq

01:34:57:13    01:35:02:27
and go public and say,
"This is wrong."

01:35:02:28    01:35:04:07
[applause]

01:35:04:08    01:35:05:29
I did not prepare a statement,

01:35:06:00    01:35:08:19
because what I have to say
I have to say from the heart.

01:35:08:20    01:35:10:27
And it's a very simple message,

01:35:10:28    01:35:15:04
and it simply is
that I am saying no to war.

01:35:15:05    01:35:16:12
[cheers and applause]

01:35:16:13    01:35:18:13
I went to Iraq,

01:35:18:14    01:35:20:06
and I was an instrument
of violence,

01:35:20:07    01:35:22:18
and now I have decided to become
an instrument of peace.

01:35:22:19    01:35:26:06
I have decided I'm not going to be
a part of the war,

01:35:26:07    01:35:27:24
but I am going back
to the military today.

01:35:27:25    01:35:29:21
I have really no idea
what's going to happen.

01:35:29:22    01:35:30:25
But whatever happens,

01:35:30:26    01:35:32:14
if they try to say
that I am a criminal

01:35:32:15    01:35:34:20
and they give me
many years in jail,

01:35:34:21    01:35:36:15
at least I know that I made
the right decision

01:35:36:16    01:35:37:29
and that God has forgiven me already.

01:35:38:00    01:35:39:11
Thank you.

01:35:39:12    01:35:42:12
[cheers and applause]

01:35:45:05    01:35:48:28
[crowd chanting]
Camilo, Camilo, Camilo.

01:35:48:29    01:35:51:13
Camilo, Camilo, Camilo.

01:35:51:17    01:35:53:00
Camilo, Camilo, Camilo.

01:35:53:01    01:35:54:10
Move it back.

01:35:54:11    01:35:55:20
Move it back right now.

01:35:55:21    01:35:58:01
Move it back.

01:35:58:02    01:36:00:17
Get off
of military property.

01:36:00:18    01:36:01:17
Move it back.

01:36:01:18    01:36:05:13
Get your stuff.

01:36:05:14    01:36:08:18
(Mejia)
I went back to the military,

01:36:08:19    01:36:12:28
and everything
that I feared happened.

01:36:12:29    01:36:14:22
I was called a coward.

01:36:14:23    01:36:16:29
I was called a traitor.

01:36:17:00    01:36:20:17
I was accused of desertion.

01:36:20:18    01:36:23:10
I was tried.

01:36:23:11    01:36:24:13
I was convicted.

01:36:24:14    01:36:26:06
I was sentenced.

01:36:26:07    01:36:29:22
I was put in jail.

01:36:29:23    01:36:32:20
And let me tell you,

01:36:32:21    01:36:37:00
I've never felt freer
in my life, you know.

01:36:37:01    01:36:40:09
There's no higher assertion
of your freedom

01:36:40:10    01:36:41:17
than to follow your conscience.

01:36:47:11  01:37:00:23
OST
On May 21, 2004, Camilo Mejia was found guilty of desertion and sentenced to one year in prison and a bad conduct discharge.  He was released early for good behavior and was freed on Feb 15, 2005.

01:37:01:15    01:37:03:18
(Kilner)
When it comes
to conscientious objectors,

01:37:03:19    01:37:06:15
the one thing that occurs to me
right up front is,

01:37:06:16    01:37:09:25
their freedom to dissent
is made possible

01:37:09:26    01:37:13:24
by the soldiers
that they criticize,

01:37:13:25    01:37:16:09
that in a perfect world,

01:37:16:10    01:37:18:26
it would be great
if we could all be peaceful

01:37:18:27    01:37:20:12
and not harm each other.

01:37:20:13    01:37:22:01
But we don't live
in a perfect world.

01:37:24:10    01:37:28:24
And I wonder about
the conscientious objector,

01:37:28:25    01:37:33:20
what would he do if that was
his or her responsibility

01:37:33:21    01:37:35:06
to defend others?

01:37:36:22    01:37:38:26
It's one thing to say that,

01:37:38:27    01:37:43:11
"I will sit and take
the punishment."

01:37:43:12    01:37:45:08
And if someone wants to do that

01:37:45:09    01:37:47:13
based on their religious beliefs
or their convictions,

01:37:47:14    01:37:52:08
then I respect that absolutely.

01:37:52:09    01:37:55:01
But I have trouble respecting
them saying,

01:37:55:02    01:37:58:21
"I will allow someone else
to get hurt when I could stop it."

01:37:58:22    01:38:01:21
[heavy footsteps]

01:38:01:22    01:38:04:14
[crowd cheering]

01:38:04:15    01:38:05:25
(Mejia)
People tell me, you know,

01:38:05:26    01:38:09:08
"What would have happened
if Hitler was not stopped?"

01:38:11:28    01:38:13:25
Well, what would have happened

01:38:13:26    01:38:16:05
if there would have been enough
conscientious objectors

01:38:16:06    01:38:17:18
in the Nazi Army?

01:38:17:19    01:38:20:13
There would have been no war.

01:38:20:14    01:38:22:26
There would have been no Hitler.

01:38:22:27    01:38:27:23
There would have been
no Holocaust.

01:38:27:24    01:38:31:02
If you believe that there
never can be enough people

01:38:31:03    01:38:33:25
who are conscientious objectors
to stop a monster like Hitler,

01:38:33:26    01:38:35:02
then it's never going to happen.

01:38:35:03    01:38:36:14
First you have to dream it,

01:38:36:15    01:38:39:10
and then you have to live your dream
and make it happen.

01:38:39:11    01:38:40:28
For you to tell me that,
you know,

01:38:40:29    01:38:42:24
"How is it possible that there
are going to be

01:38:42:25    01:38:45:00
that many conscientious
objectors?"

01:38:45:01    01:38:47:07
You know, that just tells me
that, you know,

01:38:47:08    01:38:49:21
that just gives me
more energy to say,

01:38:49:22    01:38:51:00
"It is possible.

01:38:51:01    01:38:53:05
We can have that many
conscientious objectors."

01:38:53:06    01:38:54:25
We have to believe that.

01:38:54:26    01:38:57:01
If we don't believe that
and if we don't have that dream

01:38:57:02    01:38:58:14
and if we don't live up
to that dream,

01:38:58:15    01:39:01:29
then how are we going to survive
as a human race

01:39:02:00    01:39:05:26
if we continue to embrace war
as a solution in some cases

01:39:05:27    01:39:07:09
and if we continue to think

01:39:07:10    01:39:09:24
that there can never be enough
conscientious objectors

01:39:09:25    01:39:11:16
to stop an army?

01:39:15:04  01:39:34:23
OST
In Germany in 2004,
150,000 people were called up for mandatory national service.
70,000 served as soldiers.
80,000 served as conscientious objectors,
working in non-military institutions.
                                     Source:     German Ministry of Defense
                                     German Federal Office for Civil Service

01:39:36:21 01:39:42:11
OST
Joshua Casteel

01:39:38:25    01:39:41:23
(Casteel)
I was at Abu Ghraib

01:39:41:24    01:39:46:14
for about six months total
of interrogation time.

01:39:49:04    01:39:50:29
When I wasn't
at the interrogation center,

01:39:51:00    01:39:53:07
when I was on my free time,

01:39:53:08    01:39:57:16
I spent a lot of time
in the chapel, praying.

01:39:59:27    01:40:05:04
I was interrogating schoolboys,
young fathers, imams,

01:40:05:05    01:40:07:29
average people
taken off the streets

01:40:08:00    01:40:13:01
and put into
my interrogation booth.

01:40:13:02    01:40:16:01
Finally, five months
into my time at Abu Ghraib,

01:40:16:02    01:40:18:01
I had an interrogation
with a man

01:40:18:02    01:40:23:01
who was a self-proclaimed
jihadist.

01:40:23:02    01:40:24:26
He told me
that he had a certain peace

01:40:24:27    01:40:27:14
because of his faith in Islam,

01:40:27:15    01:40:32:09
that if it was the will of God
for him to stay in prison

01:40:32:10    01:40:36:13
and if he never was released,
that he would be okay with that.

01:40:36:14    01:40:38:05
And he challenged me,

01:40:38:06    01:40:41:22
wondering if I had that same
kind of peace in my life,

01:40:41:23    01:40:45:19
wondering if I had the same
kind of spiritual centeredness

01:40:45:20    01:40:50:05
to take that kind of fate.

01:40:50:06    01:40:54:10
He then started
talking about Jesus,

01:40:54:11    01:40:57:28
that I wasn't fulfilling the call

01:40:57:29    01:41:03:28
to turn the other cheek,
to love one's enemies.

01:41:03:29    01:41:07:18
I took a little bit offense
to this comment,

01:41:07:19    01:41:11:15
because it came from the mouth
of a self-proclaimed jihadist

01:41:11:16    01:41:15:27
who told me that he would kill me
if he had the chance.

01:41:15:28    01:41:21:17
But something had definitely
occurred within me.

01:41:21:18    01:41:23:17
When posed
with that kind of challenge,

01:41:23:18    01:41:25:24
I had nothing
I could say to him.

01:41:25:25    01:41:29:19
I absolutely agreed with him.

01:41:29:20    01:41:34:01
My position
as a U.S. Army interrogator

01:41:34:02    01:41:37:10
contradicted my calling
simply as a Christian.

01:41:37:11    01:41:39:12
And it hindered my ability

01:41:39:13    01:41:43:07
to do things
like love my enemies.

01:41:43:08    01:41:46:07
I stopped the interrogation.

01:41:46:08    01:41:51:28
I had lost all perspective
as a soldier.

01:41:51:29    01:41:53:00
I wanted to ask him

01:41:53:01    01:41:54:21
about his willingness
to kill me.

01:41:54:22    01:41:56:25
I wanted to ask him
about the peace

01:41:56:26    01:41:58:16
that he found in his religion

01:41:58:17    01:42:01:05
and if there could possibly
be a way

01:42:01:06    01:42:03:17
to get outside of the cycle
of vengeance,

01:42:03:18    01:42:07:28
that he and I could share
a path.

01:42:15:29    01:42:18:27
In the regulation governing
conscientious objection,

01:42:18:28    01:42:21:14
there's an element
that they call

01:42:21:15    01:42:23:09
"the crystallization
of conscience."

01:42:23:10    01:42:28:09
And every C.O. applicant has
to state what that was for them.

01:42:28:10    01:42:30:25
And the interrogation
with that jihadist

01:42:30:26    01:42:35:13
was my crystallization
of conscience.

01:42:35:14    01:42:37:14
And it wasn't
that a bunch of new beliefs

01:42:37:15    01:42:40:14
suddenly emerged out of nowhere.

01:42:40:15    01:42:45:15
I realized,
for me to follow Christ

01:42:45:16    01:42:52:25
involves taking seriously
the charge for peacemaking.

01:42:52:26    01:42:55:24
In the beginning
of February 2005,

01:42:55:25    01:42:59:15
I formally submitted
my application

01:42:59:16    01:43:02:18
to be considered
a conscientious objector.

01:43:04:23    01:43:06:20
My application was approved,

01:43:06:21    01:43:12:05
and by the 30th of May,
I was out of the Army.

01:43:17:16    01:43:23:13
(Benderman)
I lived as a soldier
for ten years.

01:43:23:01 01:43:29:12
OST
Kevin Benderman

01:43:23:14    01:43:27:24
Some of the things that happened
in Iraq, you know,

01:43:27:25    01:43:29:29
things that my father told me
started coming back,

01:43:30:00    01:43:35:27
and I was like, "This is what
he was trying to tell me."

01:43:35:28    01:43:37:23
And I started thinking about

01:43:37:24    01:43:42:20
change of mind or heart
or however you want to put it.

01:43:42:21    01:43:48:29
But it took being over there
for almost seven months

01:43:49:00    01:43:52:22
and then being back here
for a year and a half,

01:43:52:23    01:43:57:15
you know, really doing a lot
of deep-down reflection,

01:43:57:16    01:44:01:05
and I guess the term
is soul-searching.

01:44:03:04    01:44:06:11
I mean, I talked about it
with my wife,

01:44:06:12    01:44:08:24
going over it
over and over again,

01:44:08:25    01:44:11:23
thinking about it.

01:44:11:24    01:44:15:17
I spent a lot of time
learning and reevaluating

01:44:15:18    01:44:18:19
my own personal opinion
of myself

01:44:18:20    01:44:21:08
and how I wanted
to conduct myself.

01:44:27:29    01:44:29:25
I guess you can go back
to a letter

01:44:29:26    01:44:34:04
that I had written to Monica
when we were in the area of Iraq

01:44:34:05    01:44:37:11
that was supposed to be
where the Garden of Eden,

01:44:37:12    01:44:40:14
you know,
"the cradle of civilization"

01:44:40:15    01:44:43:22
and where mankind began.

01:44:43:23    01:44:45:10
[gunshots]

01:44:45:11    01:44:46:29
I had to ask myself,

01:44:47:00    01:44:50:20
"Why am I carrying around
an M16 in the Garden of Eden?"

01:44:54:09    01:44:58:05
[men speaking indistinctly]

01:44:58:06    01:44:59:05
(man)
There he goes.

01:44:59:06    01:45:02:06
[gunshots]

01:45:05:05    01:45:06:04
(man)
Yeah, ha!

01:45:06:05    01:45:07:04
(man)
You got him.

01:45:07:05    01:45:10:24
[men cheering]

01:45:15:24    01:45:20:16
(Benderman)
There's nothing honorable
in kill