ANNE PERRY – INTERIORS_Dialogue List_70:00 min


00:00:40.05 00:00:43.04 But empathy is not easy.



00:00:43.15 00:00:46.24 A good writer can give you a multitude of lives.


00:00:47.03 00:00:58.14 A multitude of joyous experiences. And a few unpleasant experiences that you can have and share without having to carry the scars. Carrying only the empathy.



00:01:04.05 00:01:06.15 I have a golden rule for research.


00:01:06.20 00:01:11.02 If you are writing about the slums of Victorian England, don’t go there, read about it.



00:01:11.08 00:01:16.00 If you are writing about Naples and the Amalfi coast, you’ve got to go there.


00:01:16.03 00:01:17.24 Always.



00:01:26.12 00:01:32.11 They got me wrong : they just said, they introduced me with 45 books, it’s 55.
55.



00:01:32.16 00:01:38.02 And if you’re gonna give a circulation : it’s 25 million not 20.



00:01:38.06 00:01:42.15 If you are going to mention it but it’s not very interesting anyway.


00:01:42.21 00:01:47.05 Just don’t make me 10 years older. In fact, don’t say how old I am at all if you can get your way around it.


00:01:48.22 00:01:57.00 Through the course of a story your protagonist and maybe many of the other characters, maybe all of them will change.


00:01:57.19 00:02:04.13 If they do not change, what was your story about.



00:02:05.17 00:02:10.08 Thank you very much. My pleasure.


00:02:10.13 00:02:12.23 Thank you very much, you are very good speaker. Oh, thank you. Well, thank you for coming.


00:02:13.04 00:02:16.17 Well, I better get myself into the Ladie’s – I don’t know what I’m doing.


00:02:16.19 00:02:18.17 Where is the Blue Pencil?


00:02:19.04 00:02:24.04 I think there is a point in one of her books, I think it’s one of the Monk-books.


00:02:24.09 00:02:25.11 He is her earlier Victorian detective. And he ist he detective who recovers his memory, he starts of completely blank. He’s lost his memory in some sort of accident. And starts of blank.


00:02:33.13 00:02:39.13 But in one of his books he visits someone who’s a been wrongly accused, a footman who has been wrongly accused of a crime



00:02:39.18 00:02:43.07 and who eventually winds up being wrongly executed.


00:02:43.11 00:02:48.12 And I think that Anne Perry has an intrinsic idea of what that entails.



00:02:48.22 00:02:55.10 She said, not about yourself, but about your: you can’t know who they are today if you don’t know about their past.


00:02:55.15 00:02:55.22 And that kind of thing comes up over and over gain.


00:02:55.22 00:03:02.13 And I am sure that it’s colored by her own experience.



00:05:14.00 00:05:19.05 I wanted to be a writer and I still think it’s the most wonderful job.


00:05:19.11 00:05:21.20 I don’t mean for everybody but for me it’s…


00:05:22.02 00:05:26.11 you couldn’t pay me to stop. If you came and say look, I pay you twice as much money if you don’t write again.



00:05:26.17 00:05:31.01 I say, keep your money what is my life for.


00:05:35.04 00:05:41.08 I haven’t always been what I want to be but I am trying to be, yes. I believe I am in the right job.



00:05:41.16 00:05:46.01 So far as I know not forever but right now, I am in the right place.



00:05:50.03 00:05:54.10 I haven’t changed my mind on what I believe and what my values are in a long time.


00:05:54.15 00:05:58.16 I haven’t achieved them yet but I’m working on them.


00:06:07.14 00:06:13.04 Well, sometimes it happens that if you give character a name that just doesn’t seem to be right,


00:06:13.09 00:06:16.06 then you change their name and you know, that’s their name.


00:06:16.11 00:06:25.14 And then all the way through the manuscript every time you’ve got John you now put James or whatever it twas and you miss one. And they say : who is John ?



00:06:25.21 00:06:31.09 John is James, I just changed his name and I forgot to change that one.



00:06:39.05 00:06:41.16 Yeah, some e-mails for you. Thank you very much.


00:06:41.22 00:06:49.01 Oh one of the other thing I am supposed to put in is this 1908-thing she asked : what is happening in Edinburgh in 1908.


00:06:49.08 00:06:57.01 Do you have any idea ?
- Not a lot, actually. I can look that up. Don’t worry.



00:06:57.07 00:07:04.15 It needs to go in what Elizabeth is typing right now. These are the questions she asks : How do series look ?


00:07:04.21 00:07:09.10 How does differ in look, style from other series. She says to but she means from…


00:07:09.15 00:07:18.14 I quite like myself. I am not looking at myself all that closely. Tomorrow I may not. But today I do.




00:07:19.05 00:07:25.08 It shouldn’t depend on who you are with but I’m afraid it does.




00:07:25.18 00:07:33.03 If you are with people who see the best in you, you want to live up to what they see and try never to dissapoint them. Therefore you show your best.



00:07:36.00 00:07:44.22 Good Morning!



00:07:45.04 00:07:50.19 Everything is going extremely well, I think.
Send the revised outline which you should have a copy of as well to Ken


00:07:45.04 00:07:50.19 and he received and seems to be happy. Very upbeat e-mail from him.



00:07:51.01 00:07:59.16 And the new Christmas-novela is number 35 on the Times-list about which Susanna is very happy and send me an e-mail…


00:08:21.06 00:08:29.16 Anne writes in her hand, in her own hand-writing. And I have to type from that.



00:08:29.22 00:08:37.12 And it slows me, it slows my typing down a lot… trying to read. Trying to read her writing.


00:08:37.17 00:08:47.11 But it’s amazing how I got used to it, I can’t read every word and probably ever be able to.


00:08:58.07 00:09:07.13 Sometimes she can’t read it either. So that’s quite funny. But as I say, it’s good, never a dull moment.



00:09:12.09 00:09:17.22 Remember my mother saying to me whe I was quite young.




00:09:18.07 00:09:24.04 Remember I used to like green peas. And I look at my brother’s plate and he’s got more than I have. She said: Have you got enough.

00:09:24.11 00:09:33.00 Well, yes but he’s got more than I have. Well, keep your eyes on your own plate. I f you got sufficient, it doesn’t matter what somebody else has.


00:10:24.01 00:10:35.07 I think we work together pretty well. And since I spend five days a week here, more or less,


00:10:35.20 00:10:44.22 and she employs me, I’ve got to make sure that what I do is for her benefit.


00:10:49.05 00:10:56.21 And the fact that I’m her brother shouldn’t grant me any particular privileges – it probably does.


00:10:59.06 00:11:06.06 But I’ve got to be mature not push my ego over this particular issue.



00:12:02.01 00:12:13.24 Well, I met Anne 30, nearly 30 yrs. ago in Suffolk down in England.



00:12:13.24 00:12:15.14 And we met through my husband, believe it or not. My ex-husband, believe it or not. And we just became kindred spirits right from the start.



00:12:29.16 00:12:35.24 She became my best friend.


00:12:38.05 00:12:43.00 Anne was the person I could talk to, cry with, laugh with –


00:12:43.09 00:12:49.18 And I hope I became the same to her. I believe I did.



00:13:56.07 00:14:06.13 AT THE AGE OF 15, ANNE PERRY WAS SENTENCED FOR MURDER IN NEW ZEALAND.


00:14:06.18 00:14:19.14 TOGETHER WITH HER FRIEND PAULINE PARKER, SHE KILLED PAULINE’S MOTHER.


00:15:18.02 00:15:25.18 I don’t know what it was like when she was a child. I don’t know because Anne doesn’t talk much about her childhood.


00:15:27.00 00:15:34.24 Every now and then comes out a little story of… you know… ‘cause she doesn’t believe that she had a childhood. So, I don’t know.


00:15:39.01 00:15:46.14 Every now and then she’d come out with a little story hère and a little story there but nothing as… nothing fluid.


00:16:05.16 00:16:10.19 Actually for some reason or another they gave me three months solitary confinement to start off with.



00:16:11.01 00:16:16.18 And they decided it before I even got there, so it wasn’t anything I did. They decided that they would give me.


00:16:16.21 00:16:22.07 And they’d never done it to anybody else before and so far as I know didn’t since. Three months solitary confinement.



00:16:22.10 00:16:26.22 I was allowed out to work and then put straight in after work.




00:16:27.04 00:16:31.09 I don’t know what it was for but anyway: it was rough.



00:16:31.15 00:16:35.01 And at that time I finally got down on my knees and said:



00:16:35.06 00:16:44.18 Yes, it was me, I did it, it was wrong and I am sorry. And then it began to heal.


00:16:48.22 00:16:52.23 When it all happened I was ten years old.


00:16:53.05 00:17:01.02 But I got to know what had happenend and then I’ve had to work it out.


00:17:03.00 00:17:08.13 And come to terms with it.


00:17:09.19 00:17:17.23 When Anne came back from New Zealand Jonathan would have been in university then.



00:17:18.04 00:17:24.00 And they would have met. But I don’t think… They wouldn’t have lived together as a family ever. I don’t think.


00:17:24.07 00:17:30.23 And then when he came… and he went to Simbabwe, married there and raised his children there.


00:17:31.04 00:17:41.09 And then they’d come back a few years ago. And he used to visit with his mother and they got to know each other then. And got to know more about each other then.


00:17:49.09 00:17:51.10 That’s supposed to be accurately.



00:17:51.16 00:17:55.10 O.k, you’re writing so I can read it.
- No.


00:17:55.15 00:18:00.18 O.k., as usual.
- Yes, no change in the usual.



00:18:00.24 00:18:08.15 Mhm, Katherin Jones and Jack Chase. I wonder who they are.


00:18:09.15 00:18:14.02 Her father died just not long after she came to Scotland.


00:18:14.07 00:18:18.17 But she had a very good relationship with him. But it had to be a secret relationship.



00:18:18.23 00:18:28.06 Because nobody could know that she was his daughter. And I think that would hurt.


00:18:28.17 00:18:34.04 You know, they both enjoyed the same things, art galleries and things together.


00:18:34.20 00:18:44.15 But when they met they couldn’t meet with other family members knowing they were meeting or even the media knowing they were meeting or his work people knowing they were meeting.


00:18:44.21 00:18:51.19 They had to meet in places that… like art galeries and places like that.


00:18:55.24 00:19:02.24 Because… I suppose because of the scandal. He couldn’t be seen to be associated with it.


00:19:03.05 00:19:10.20 And of course, he would have another wife which wouldn’t allow him to be associated with her.



00:19:39.11 00:19:47.23 Yeah, I knew about it… I think I learned about it when I was 13 or 14 or something like that.


00:19:47.23 00:19:52.22 And to be honest with you : made no difference to me.




00:19:53.04 00:20:03.07 Because, you know, it was something that happened and it was a big mistake.



00:20:03.15 00:20:09.22 And Anne has lived her life regretting that mistake and trying to put it right.


00:20:10.03 00:20:15.11 She hasn’t just sat down and said, well tough, I did it, never mind.



00:20:15.17 00:20:25.17 You know, she hasn’t ridden the history side of it to sell more books – which would be very easy to do, you know.



00:20:31.02 00:20:36.01 We’ve got LONG SPOON LANE which is quite a recent one.




00:20:37.16 00:20:41.20 For a long time there were always set in London.



00:20:42.14 00:20:48.06 And they are really Victorian mysteries. Again, we got the principles of the gospels through them.



00:20:48.13 00:20:52.24 You can pick them out, you know help people, they definetley help people



00:20:53.06 00:21:06.13 who have maybe done something in their lives that was… they are sorry about and it helps them to change.


00:22:05.08 00:22:08.24 The Lord is my shepard. I shall not worry.



00:22:09.05 00:22:17.12 He makes me lay down in green pastures. He leads me beside quiet waters. He restores my soul.



00:22:51.12 00:22:56.03 It’s funny though how people get very emotional over children’s testimony.



00:22:56.09 00:23:04.12 Some people find it a sign of being very spiritual that you burst into tears.



00:23:04.19 00:23:08.19 Well, you see, I grew up in a culture where it’s just a sign that you no self-control.



00:23:09.01 00:23:14.02 And when people get all weepy I don’t think how wonderful, how spiritual they are. I think :


00:23:14.08 00:23:20.06 For Pete’s sake, get a grip ! But it’s just a difference in culture.



00:23:20.12 00:23:27.16 Because my parents would never have done that. But they would have believed just as much.



00:23:41.09 00:23:48.16 But in a sense it’s not a matter at the end of judging : I did this much good and that much bad – which is the greater?



00:23:48.23 00:23:53.16 It’s at the end : who am I ? Am I someone that can be trusted?



00:23:53.22 00:24:06.03 Am I someone that is compassionate, gentle, patient, strong, humble – oh no, that’s the wrong word – teachable, brave, honest etc.




00:24:06.08 00:24:10.04 Above all : Do I really care about other people or am I always the center of the picture?



00:24:10.11 00:24:17.06 If you that kind of person and you’ve done something bad in the past, you’ve obviously changed. If you were that kind of person and you’ve changed:




00:24:17.11 00:24:24.00 Whoever you are that’s what you are and it’s who you are when time is up that matters.



00:24:17.11 00:24:24.00 If you’ve been very, very wonderful and you lost it, you’d lost it.



00:25:59.07 00:26:06.06 We are all members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.



00:26:12.11 00:26:18.20 Em, which gives us… that connection is quite important for Anne in particular in that we all have the same faith.



00:26:20.07 00:26:28.15 And that means that when it comes on to honesty and integrity and that sort of thing, we are all reading from the same sheet shall we say, you know.




00:26:28.22 00:26:33.22 And I think that is helpful for Anne.


00:26:34.04 00:26:40.07 Well, the full title of the church is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints.



00:26:40.13 00:26:47.07 But it is known as the Mormon Church. And eh, we are members of the church.



00:26:48.06 00:26:54.13 I know the Book of Mormon is true and it teaches the true doctrine of Jesus Christ. I know that for a fact



00:26:54.20 00:27:04.20 And I pray about it and the Holy Ghost told me that when I asked if the Book of Mormon is true, the Holy Ghost told me:



00:27:05.02 00:27:09.01 Yes, it is true and Joseph Smith really was a and is a prophet of Heavenly Father.




00:27:09.08 00:27:12.14 They have this book – the Book of Mormon.


00:27:12.20 00:27:22.00 Which was mysteriously translated, revealed and translated to Joseph Smith and then disappeared :



00:27:22.07 00:27:28.15 The Golden Plates.
Em, sorry, I don’t buy that.



00:27:53.11 00:27:57.16 Ben Ayouwaya ?
Yes.



00:28:02.04 00:28:07.02 Yep. Secular ? Religious ?
Religious.


00:28:17.19 00:28:21.15 Right. Hardy and June Anderson.
Definetely religious.



00:28:22.11 00:28:32.05 She was in the United States then when she found the church. And that was quite a long time after things happened before.



00:28:37.10 00:28:41.17 I think what happened, I am not sure, this is only what I feel



00:28:41.24 00:28:53.09 is that because she was so sorry for what she did and didn’t know where to turn to proof that she was sorry and she paid the price anyway.



00:28:53.16 00:29:01.06 That when she found the truth then



00:29:01.12 00:29:07.17 and realized she could be forgiven for everything with rependence.



00:29:08.19 00:29:15.02 But if you believe that there is a God and that it has purpose and he loves us.



00:29:15.10 00:29:23.13 And anything is ???, no repairable maybe I should say – here or hereafter.



00:29:23.21 00:29:29.06 Then that’s totally different. You just keep going and if it looks terrible now, keep on going.



00:29:29.12 00:29:34.12 It’ll come right in the end if you just don’t give up.



00:29:36.11 00:29:40.02 You have to accept the literal truth of the bible.


00:29:40.08 00:29:43.21 I can’t accept that. It was written by people.



00:29:44.02 00:29:52.10 Even if it is inspired by… whatever… it doesn’ make it infallable



00:29:52.19 00:29:57.11 I can get all sort of guidance from above. I get guidance from above.




00:29:57.19 00:30:01.17 Yeah ! I got a sat nav, a satellite navigation system.



00:30:02.03 00:30:06.10 That guides me from above. But occasionally it makes mistakes.



00:30:12.03 00:30:15.13 The Salcitos.
Yes, religious or not.



00:30:15.19 00:30:21.12 Mhm... send it to Misses.
Mister...



00:30:21.18 00:30:26.05 What?
Walked off.



00:30:26.13 00:30:29.00 Really? You mean it!
Yes!



00:30:29.06 00:30:31.11 They seperated?
Yeah.



00:30:31.16 00:30:36.14 Flaming Nora!
It’s happening every day.



00:30:36.19 00:30:41.18 I would have thought they were really...
No, no... There you go, a bit of gossip.




00:30:41.23 00:30:45.03 Giddy Aunt!


00:30:50.06 00:30:51.19 With somebody else or just...


00:30:51.23 00:31:01.01 Yeah, he’s found himself a nurse down in Edinburgh.
Sh.... Oh, I am sorry.



00:31:01.06 00:31:04.23 I thought he had a slightly wondering nature ‚cause it was going towards my direction.
00:31:05.02 00:31:06.16 Well, he is Sicilian.


00:31:06.20 00:31:09.05 I know. Did you notice it wondering in my direction?


00:31:09.10 00:31:12.01 Not your direction.
It did!


00:31:12.05 00:31:16.24 Well, that was just Italian courtesy, that’ alright.
Then you didn’t notice.



00:31:17.04 00:31:19.23 No, I didn’t. Right.


00:31:20.11 00:31:25.08 Inland revenue?
Certainly not.



00:31:55.02 00:32:04.07 Go tell her I’m coming… Go tell her I’m coming… Go tell her I’m coming…



00:32:06.02 00:32:11.14 Is she in?


00:32:12.02 00:32:20.00 I’ve got to do these outlines, you know this… the thing for the two TV-things.



00:32:20.18 00:32:25.05 And I’ve got to do that pretty well this afternoon.
Yeah, alright.



00:32:25.14 00:32:32.11 I want to make the main woman have a sister. A sort of an age, she’s got grown up children and married.



00:32:32.17 00:32:39.09 Because it does happen quite often that your children change a lot when they marry someone very different.


00:32:39.15 00:32:40.15 They what ?


00:32:40.21 00:32:45.19 Your children can change quite a lot when they marry someone who is very different in personality and so forth.



00:32:46.19 00:32:51.08 Also, you might discover that when your daughter marries somebody she feels free to exercise the personality
00:32:51.13 00:32:56.22 you didn’t even know she had before.
Well, this is it.



00:32:57.03 00:33:00.23 You only take a few minutes to do those, don’t you ?


00:33:01.03 00:33:04.20 How can somebody ever take hours to do something you can do in ten minutes?



00:33:04.24 00:33:10.01 Well, I don’t know. It’s something I didn’t ask.
Well, no.



00:33:18.10 00:33:25.01 Whatever she is working on, changes all of us because that is what Anne will want to talk about.




00:33:25.06 00:33:33.23 So then we got to dig deep into giving her ideas or keeping her emotionally keen into the story.



00:33:34.24 00:33:45.10 Whereas I can go out all day and do what I can do but my emotional… whatever I go through emotionally doesn’t change who Anne is in a sense.



00:33:45.18 00:33:50.13 Although Anne’s emotions change us.


00:33:56.10 00:34:03.19 If Anne is unhappy then most of the people up here are effected by it.



00:34:04.01 00:34:09.08 If Anne is happy, so that happens as well.


00:34:11.00 00:34:20.04 There are territorites we don’t go with Anne.


00:34:36.20 00:34:41.10 I had the spell of living with my mother for a while when this house wasn’t quite finished.



00:34:41.16 00:34:50.13 We got along extraordinary well – which surprised me. But my mother was fun. She was bright and she was fun.



00:34:50.19 00:34:55.09 And she understood when it’s work time you have to work.

00:34:55.15 00:34:57.21 But some people relly don’t like to work.


00:34:58.02 00:35:04.15 You see, I grew up with the thought – because my father loved his work – work is something you get allowed to do when you grow up.



00:35:04.20 00:35:08.10 Not as something you have to do and you know, it’s dreadful and oh, Monday morning…



00:35:08.15 00:35:11.23 It’s something you get allowed to do and isn’t it fun it’s Monday morning tomorrow ?



00:35:12.04 00:35:15.18 And I’ve always felt like that.


00:35:16.18 00:35:20.18 He goes… I think that should be a break there…



00:35:21.01 00:35:26.20 He goes back to the office and works all night on looking up the case of Rodrick’s brother in law who was hanged for a crime…



00:35:34.16 00:35:39.17 And they have solved the crime remarkably quickly…


00:35:39.24 00:35:44.04 No, unsolved…
Yes, unsolved.



00:35:50.23 00:35:55.20 She’s afraid of loosing the momentum, afraid of being forgotten.



00:35:56.00 00:36:01.02 Now she gets something out on time it’s… you know. And I can understand that.



00:36:01.07 00:36:05.15 But I still think she’s got to make time for fun as well.



00:36:05.19 00:36:17.03 I still think within that 24 hours/seven or six day week I should say there has got to be some time when she can even just walk around the garden



00:36:17.08 00:36:26.15 or go for a walk up the field or just go down on the beach and walk in… anything. Just… Because I think what she can write will be richer for it.

00:36:30.00 00:36:42.04 I mean obviously when you are going to work very hard at any job, maybe creative or any other sort of job, there’s going to be a certain amount of social connections of one sort or another you don’t have.


00:36:42.13 00:36:45.07 But then I’m not always sure if that’s a sacrifice



00:36:45.12 00:36:54.05 because if you are doing what you are designed to do maybe if you would have taken less time at it and put more time into social things,



00:36:54.11 00:36:58.15 you would have felt it a greater sacrifice because would not have been true to yourself.



00:36:58.20 00:37:03.15 And the social things you might have gathered, the relationships or whatever might have failed in the end anyway



00:37:03.20 00:37:08.05 because you’d felt you’d paid for them with yourself.



00:37:25.07 00:37:30.18 I think one of the problems that Anne has – we are going back to her history,



00:37:30.22 00:37:36.00 the occurance that was when she was a teenager which I’m not going to say more on that.



00:37:36.05 00:37:44.20 But she lived the rest of her life with this secret and secrets are corrosive and they damage.



00:37:44.24 00:37:53.18 Any opportunities that she had for a relationship, the secret was still there.



00:37:53.23 00:38:01.16 And how do you then – you are in this relationship – so how do you then open up ? So actually you don’t get into a relationship in the first place.



00:38:01.16 00:38:05.19 And it’s become a habit for her.



00:38:09.08 00:38:16.17 ‘Cause something bothers her. She’s a very lonely person.


00:38:18.07 00:38:26.22 And I mean it’s her own wish to be alone in the way she is at the moment putting her career first.



00:38:27.07 00:38:31.00 But there are times when she is very, very lonely.


00:38:33.10 00:38:39.04 I think she would be happy if there was a man in her life. I think it’s a little late now.


00:38:39.09 00:38:49.06 And I think her personality and her intelligence would make it rather awkward.


00:39:00.08 00:39:05.16 One of my favourite stories is of this man very, very busy working at something


00:39:05.20 00:39:14.19 and the Angel of Death came to him and said : It’s your time. And he said: Please, just let me have a little bit longer,



00:39:15.00 00:39:21.06 I really need to finish this piece of work. Don’t know what it was – lets say it was a great work of art. And the angel said: O.k., I’ll come back in a year.



00:39:21.11 00:39:27.16 And in a year he came back and the other said : Please, please, I’ve got this wonderful new concept. Please, just let me have a little bit longer,



00:39:27.21 00:39:32.21 I really need to finish this piece o f work. The angel said: O.k. and went away again.


00:39:33.01 00:39:36.15 Came back the third time and said I really got to take you this time.



00:39:36.19 00:39:42.02 He said : I just got to… let me just finish this. And the angel said: No.



00:39:42.19 00:39:48.10 And he’s like : Please… Don’t you realize: I took you the first time?


00:39:48.17 00:39:53.00 Heaven is to continue to work, to grow, to learn.


00:40:02.12 00:40:07.16 Would you like a coffee?
No, thanks. I just had a coffee.

00:40:16.00 00:40:20.04 I sometimes get the feeling that she works to deadlines.

00:40:20.11 00:40:28.21 And if you really want to produce something thst sparkles above anything else, there is no such thing as a deadline.



00:40:29.05 00:40:35.09 Took Leonardo Da Vinci what at least 11 years to paint the Mona Lisa.



00:40:35.23 00:40:43.17 And at times he would come and sit and look at his paintings, do a dab here and a dab there and walk away.



00:40:44.00 00:40:47.11 Other times he was busy.


00:40:47.22 00:40:53.03 If you really want to produce a masterpiece, there is no such thing as a deadline.



00:42:23.06 00:42:26.06 Good Morning, Anne !
Oh, good morning, how are you?



00:42:42.16 00:42:47.05 He’s been a good writer.
It was light in the sky.



00:42:48.07 00:42:54.01 He would have been a good writer for the rat-catcher. What was his name? Sutton.


00:42:54.07 00:42:58.10 Yes. But he appears in the book.
Yes.


00:42:59.01 00:43:01.09 Snoot !


00:43:01.17 00:43:06.19 You silly dog.
He pushed it under the table.


00:43:08.13 00:43:12.22 Is it under there ? Is that what you did with it ?


00:43:20.22 00:43:24.00 He does this for entertainment.


00:43:24.11 00:43:31.14 Oh, is that something priceless.
That is a list of what I printed out for Meg.

00:43:47.03 00:43:52.23 Now what’s that word?
I don’t know.



00:43:53.14 00:43:55.19 That one.
Ached?


00:43:56.00 00:44:02.05 It looks like eased. She eased for Susanna, is it?



00:44:04.18 00:44:08.18 It looks like eased, yes.



00:44:11.13 00:44:15.14 I think it is.



00:44:19.06 00:44:20.05 Cared.


00:44:20.09 00:44:23.08 Cared for Susanna.


00:44:25.20 00:44:30.06 Alright.
Thanks, Anne.


00:44:49.11 00:44:59.07 A FILM ABOUT THE MURDER COMMITTED BY JULIET HULME AND PAULINE PARKER WAS RELEASED IN 1994.


00:44:59.11 00:45:10.10 IT HAS SINCE BECOME KNOWN THAT JULIET HULME IS LIVING UNDER THE NAME OF ANNE PERRY.



00:45:14.19 00:45:21.07 I had to change legally to my mother’s and my stepfather’s name. Which is an obvious thing to do: Perry.



00:45:21.13 00:45:24.24 That was my stepfather’s name and when my mother married him, it was obviously her name.



00:45:25.04 00:45:30.00 If I was going to live with them and be their daughter which I am, obviously that was the name to take.



00:45:30.11 00:45:34.03 But, Anne, they just picked something ordinary,



00:45:34.13 00:45:38.00 I mean the government, the New Zealand government.

00:45:39.05 00:45:46.05 They weighed me and measured me and did all the necessary work and gave me a passport, so I could leave the country.

00:45:46.11 00:45:52.06 They released me on those conditions that I leaved the country immediately, that day.


00:46:11.10 00:46:21.02 And I’ve always known about Anne but I never told anybody, ever. That was my secret.


00:46:21.08 00:46:26.17 She knew it was safe with me and I never, never told anybody.


00:46:26.23 00:46:34.22 And when the news broke about her past, I was like a bulldog, nobody could get past her gate.


00:46:35.02 00:46:41.15 Anybody walking up the drive, I would be out there: Who are you ? Press, go away.


00:46:42.20 00:46:47.19 You know, we’d been dodging between the windows, bent down, run.


00:46:48.00 00:46:58.00 Because the would be out there and hiding in the bushes and all that. So, it wasn’t a good experience.


00:46:59.00 00:47:03.19 And not just once, they kept coming and coming.



00:47:05.24 00:47:10.09 I mean for all the years until it became public nobody knew.



00:47:10.15 00:47:18.05 Well, my brother knew, but no, he has never raised it neither have my parents, I mean all three of them. Ever!


00:47:18.11 00:47:26.01 But since it become public no. I mean the people I get… I deal with, they know me.



00:47:27.20 00:47:33.03 And they know who I am, what I’m like and nobody has ever raised it.



00:47:33.09 00:47:39.07 If you mean, do stranger raise it? Oh, yes. Strangers don’t know nothing about it, sure.



00:47:39.17 00:47:43.23 And it hurts. And I can’t afford to lose my temper.

00:47:44.06 00:47:48.02 And say: You know nothing about it, mind your own business.


00:47:48.08 00:47:52.10 What the hell has it to do with you.


00:47:52.17 00:47:58.09 But occasionally you get nasty letters. Poor little people



00:47:58.15 00:48:02.13 who have nothing else to do than pick on somebody… you know, but write nasty letters.


00:48:02.18 00:48:07.24 But it doesn’t happen very often. And my friends here on the whole will protect me from it.



00:48:11.07 00:48:15.13 None of us… We’re all so touched by it that nobody talks about it.


0:48:15.20 00:48:24.24 Elizabeth never talks about it, we never talk about it. Simon and I talk about it, Simon is the only person I can talk… I talk about it to.



00:48:25.06 00:48:35.22 And even we are??? Sometimes become because there is so much we don’t know. We haven’t been told.



00:48:37.07 00:48:40.03 Starting 30-something.


00:48:40.09 00:48:42.12 Right, so that’s not what you’re looking for, is it?


00:48:42.18 00:48:48.19 Probably is. I think so.



00:48:49.00 00:48:52.23 But There are lots of blank words but some of them I can guess...


00:48:53.05 00:49:01.22 You wouldn’t be available to do them at the time. No, I wasn’t.


00:49:06.14 00:49:14.22 Most of the people I know, that like me, you know my friends don’t want me to talk about it because they find it distressing.



00:49:17.24 00:49:21.10 I suppose because they think it’s painful and they don’t want me to be hurt.

00:49:21.15 00:49:26.12 They said: Forget it, don’t talk about it, let go of it.



00:49:26.23 00:49:35.23 You see one day I will be more open with her because that’s what heals when you can talk about something.



00:49:36.04 00:49:44.01 That’s what helps to heal. When you can actually talk about it.


00:49:45.22 00:49:58.06 Because the fact that we don’t talk about it comfortably with Anne. It’s skirted around.


00:49:58.16 00:50:04.12 Means that it’s, she’s not known.



00:50:06.19 00:50:11.19 It’s the thing that happened.


00:52:59.14 00:53:05.02 You know, it’s a... when you do meet the right person, it will be the right person


00:53:05.08 00:53:09.20 And I don’t know when that’s going to be and it’ll be one and that’s all I can say.



00:53:10.01 00:53:16.08 And when you get... and you have to do your own thing about it, you gonna have to move away from this little... comfort zone.



00:53:16.14 00:53:20.08 It’s not going to happen in the comfort zone.
No.



00:53:20.22 00:53:26.16 And now is the time for you to start thinking about it.
Yes.



00:53:26.22 00:53:29.05 And really working at it. It’s beyond thought.


00:53:29.11 00:53:33.23 I have actually worked at quite a bit in the last six months and I shall work some more.



00:53:34.04 00:53:39.07 This is it. You gotta get out of this comfort zone. You gotta have to have a little more...


00:53:39.12 00:53:41.07 Discomfort.


00:53:41.13 00:53:44.19 Yes, I am not looking forward to that but you are right.


00:53:45.00 00:53:48.08 It just not going to happen here.


00:53:48.13 00:53:51.24 Because there is nobody here.


00:53:52.04 00:53:55.00 No, I’ve been in the comfort zone long enough.



00:53:55.06 00:53:57.22 Yes, too long.


00:54:00.07 00:54:04.09 Remember that holiday when we came out to Fort Williams? Oh, that was funny.


00:54:04.14 00:54:11.00 It rained every day. I knitted and you read „The Ballad of the White Horse“ and all the Chesterton,


00:54:11.05 00:54:15.21 “The Man Who Was Thursday... Friday”



00:54:16.02 00:54:22.03 And we laughed until we cried and then we laughed. Yes, that was funny.



00:54:22.24 00:54:25.18 Do you remember that time in Crushadelsie? Oh yes, Crushadelsie.



00:54:25.24 00:54:33.14 With the mattress. It was the rugs of the floor.


00:54:33.17 00:54:37.08 And it was cold.



00:54:37.14 00:54:41.08 And the toilet that used to flush steam every so often all by itself.


00:54:41.14 00:54:46.11 I don’t think I ever laughed so hard again. I couldn’t get my breath I laughed so hard.


00:54:46.17 00:54:50.03 Oh, we had some good times.


00:54:50.23 00:54:53.22 We didn’t have a penny between us at that time, did we?

00:54:54.02 00:54:59.02 No, maybe being poor made us happier.



00:55:00.00 00:55:05.01 No, we don’t seem to have the same joy as we had then.


00:55:05.07 00:55:10.13 No, we do have some good times but not as many as we did.



00:55:12.04 00:55:16.18 I do miss those times: sitting in the stood fields…
I remember that.


00:55:16.23 00:55:22.01 …And sitting and reading poetry and listen to music.



00:55:22.07 00:55:29.24 We just seem to do none of these things now. Most of our time is taken in talking.



00:55:32.06 00:55:36.22 Well, that was a lovely drive, thank you very much.


00:56:10.15 00:56:18.08 I’m here. I can’t go anywhere until she’s got what she has to have.


00:56:20.12 00:56:26.22 I’m stuck until she is fully happy.



00:56:27.18 00:56:34.02 And when she has everything she needs, then I can let go.



00:56:38.13 00:56:47.07 And that’s how I feel. I love her so much. I told God: Just keep me here long enough


00:56:47.22 00:56:53.06 to give her what she needs to make her the most happy person that she should be.


00:56:53.16 00:57:00.21 And I know when she gets that I can let go.



00:57:28.01 00:57:36.13 Yes, thank you. I’m trying to…I’m thinking of… getting these finished today.



00:57:36.18 00:57:41.04 Good. Right, lets do it.
Right

00:58:04.02 00:58:11.19 I’ve known Anne for over 30 years, I’ve known right from the beginning that what she did was a dreadful act


00:58:12.00 00:58:18.13 and I never ever doubted her as a person.


00:58:21.03 00:58:25.16 I’ve trusted her with my children, with my life



00:58:26.21 00:58:32.17 and I just wish that she could trust other people in the same way with her life.


00:58:32.22 00:58:39.01 Because until she does she is not going t be free of the bogeyman.


01:00:57.19 01:01:03.10 But a lot of things going on at the moment and I think do you for changes…


01:01:03.14 01:01:06.02 you heard what Meg said in the car.


01:01:07.10 01:01:16.07 About that I have to make some big changes soon and get… It’s difficult going away from your comfort zone.


01:01:16.23 01:01:23.09 And it gets harder as time goes by. Still gotta do it. But it scares the hell out of me.


01:01:23.14 01:01:27.08 I’m tired of being scared.


01:02:16.00 01:02:22.24 But you can’t allow yourself to keep this wall up any longer.
No, I hear you.


01:02:28.11 01:02:32.04 I suppose I protected myself so long...


01:02:32.10 01:02:40.24 and for the first three months afterwards I cried, well no, for the first three months I was absolutely frozen.


01:02:41.04 01:02:45.07 And then I cried and cried and cried and cried.


01:02:45.12 01:02:50.00 I never cried again ‘cause once I start I’ll never stop.


01:02:56.07 01:03:03.18 Also, my immediate family didn’t want to talk about it, so i assumed that other people close to me also wouldn’t.


01:03:04.02 01:03:08.09 And they never had any questions.

01:03:12.09 01:03:19.13 See, sometimes I think I’ve started out to say some of the things really were the worst about that place


01:03:19.19 01:03:24.18 and then I figured that I’m just upsetting other people. I should shut up.



01:03:25.00 01:03:34.01 You see, many of us can understand what the place was because many of us read and hear and things… other people’s experiences.



01:03:34.09 01:03:42.03 But nobody can experience the emotions, your emotions.



01:03:44.21 01:03:51.03 I just love you so much, Anne, and I want people to know the real you.


01:04:33.06 01:04:42.19 I was going to go with my father to South Africa where his sister lived. And mother was going to go with Bill.



01:04:43.01 01:04:50.09 And then when Pauline heard about this which must have been a day afterwards, that was when the world seem to fall apart for her.


01:04:50.14 01:04:59.03 Now I was very, I was frightened of her in the fact that I thought, I really thought she would take her life


01:04:59.09 01:05:05.15 but she was what I now know is bulimic. She used to throw up after every meal and you could smell it on her.


01:05:05.20 01:05:11.07 And she was absolutely back bones. And her skin, she had a very, very good, very fine skin


01:05:11.10 01:05:15.24 but you put a plaster on it and it used to suppurate.


01:05:16.02 01:05:21.06 Because she was so… you know and I thought she really would and it would be my fault.


01:05:21.10 01:05:31.10 Now that is stupid, but I felt absolutely trapped. And it was almost as if I was doing something…


01:05:32.07 01:05:35.13 I knew it was wrong and I knew I would have to pay for it



01:05:35.20 01:05:43.21 and I knew it was stupid but I was terrified that she really would take her life and it would be my fault.
01:05:44.04 01:05:53.03 I felt I couldn’t walk away, I would have given anything I had to be able to somehow get out of it but I didn’t see a way.



01:05:53.07 01:05:59.14 And I couldn’t go to my mother and I couldn’t go to my father. And Jonathan was only ten.



01:05:59.18 01:06:04.09 And I did something stupid, which I regretted for the rest of my life.


01:06:04.13 01:06:07.21 But I can’t undo it.












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