Mrs. Goundo’s Daughter Attie & Goldwater Productions
Dialogue Transcript
TRT: 1:00:21

TC 00:00:00
ITVS Animated Logo

TC 00:00:06
GOUNDO (Off screen)
I’ve been far away from Africa for so long. I miss my homeland. My family keeps asking me to bring my daughter. But if I do, they will circumcise her.

TC 00:00:28
TITLE SCREEN: MRS. GOUNDO’S DAUGHTER
By Barbara Attie and Janet Goldwater

TC 00:00:39
GOUNDO (Off screen)
I want Djenabou to go to university.
I want her to be a doctor.
To be someone important.
To be able to support herself and do what she wants to do and find a good husband.
I fight for asylum because I can’t go home with my daughter.
I don’t know what’s going to happen to us.

TC 00:01:14
TEXT SCREEN:
Philadelphia, PA
USA

TC 00:02:06

GOUNDO (Off screen)
Get your shoes.
Put your shoes on.

TC 00:02:19
CATHERINE SEWELL (Off screen)
The first time that I saw her I think must have been 2002

CATHERINE SEWELL (On screen)
and when we were talking she didn’t mention anything about her female circumcision.

TC 00:02:27
SUBTITLE:
Catherine Sewell, Mrs. Goundo’s physician

CATHERINE SEWELL (On screen)
And then when I went to examine her I noticed that her clitoris and parts of her labia minora were absent.
CATHERINE SEWELL (Off screen)
So in my research I found some articles that talk about how female genital cutting is done and the different procedures.
CATHERINE SEWELL (On screen)
I asked her if she had any surgery on her female organs and she said yes.

TC 00:02:53
GOUNDO (On screen)
I went to the hospital when I was pregnant. The doctors were talking to each other.
GOUNDO (Off screen)
They had never seen it before. They asked me if it was painful.
GOUNDO (On screen)
I don’t remember because I was very young. Now I don’t feel anything.

TC 00:03:15
CATHERINE SEWELL (Off screen)
She came back to the office for routine care
CATHERINE SEWELL (On screen)
and asked if I could write a letter supporting her case for political asylum in the United States, really on behalf of her daughter.

TC 00:03:33
Moussa gets out of car and crosses street
MOUSSA TRAORE (Off screen)
I’m one of the first Malians who came in this city of Philadelphia. I knew of two other people who could speak good English. So to interact with people, they needed an interpreter.

TC 00:03:47
SUBTITLE:
Moussa Traoré, Family Friend

MOUSSA TRAORE (Off screen)
And you could not just let people down. We call this in Bambara noko deme, helping each other.
Mrs. Goundo, she’s like any other Malian, and even a little plus because she’s the wife of my friend, too. When Mrs. Goundo needs to go to court or to see a lawyer she calls me.


TC 00:04:17
Goundo and Moussa in living room
GOUNDO (On screen)
These are the papers.

MOUSSA TRAORE (On screen)
Let me see them.
These are the papers for your asylum case. I can help you with this.
MOUSSA TRAORE (Off screen)
The judge is going to say you were circumcised, why are you against it?

TC 00:04:41
GOUNDO (On screen)
I know how it was done to me and how it feels on me now. Also there are several diseases a girl can catch.
GOUNDO (Off screen)
Sometimes the bleeding doesn’t stop. A child can die. That’s why I don’t want it done to my child.

TC 00:05:04
TEXT SCREEN #1:
Mali

TC 00:05:16
TEXT SCREEN #2:
Female circumcision, or excision, is the ritual cutting of a girl’s genitals.

TC 00:05:22
TEXT SCREEN #3:
In Mali, as many as 85 % of women and girls have some or all of their external genitals removed.

TC 00:05:29

VOICES OF WOMEN (Off screen)
Stay in line.
Let’s go, it’s late.
Let’s get done with it quickly.

TC 00:05:43

GUISSE MAIMOUNA (On screen)
What about the jar of medicine?
This is good for all of them
Whoever sees this will tell about it. So boil it well.
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
My job is excision -- girls’ excision. I get paid to do this.
I’ve been doing it for 16 years.

TC 00:06:10
SUBTITLE:
Guisse Maimouna, Excisor

GUISSE MAIMOUNA (On screen)
I was born to this job. From our ancestors, to our grandmothers, to our mothers, down to us. They handed us the knife.

TC 00:06:26
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
An unexcised girl is not accepted here. Men don’t want to marry her. And even if a man does marry her, later he’ll divorce her.I excise girls in a nice fashion. I’ve never had a problem. I cut the parts that have to be cut. I leave the parts that shouldn’t be touched.
TC 00:06:48
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (On screen)
The women’s genitals, excuse my language, I cut the two edges of the genitals. Then I cut the clitoris.

TC 00:07:15
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
We have some traditional Bambara medicines. We also use cotton and alcohol and razor blades. We used to use a knife, but now they say there’s AIDS and people shouldn’t share the knife. Now we do it with a razor blade.
TC 00:07:52
Philadelphia. Goundo looking at picture album
GOUNDO (Off screen)
It was tough leaving my village to come here. I was sent her when I was only 15, not even 16 years old.

TC 00:08:02
MOUSSA (Off screen)
Were you scared when your parents left you here?

TC 00:08:06
GOUNDO(On screen)
Isn’t that obvious?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
I was four or five when my parents betrothed me to my husband. I didn’t know him. Before I came here, I only saw a picture of him.

TC 00:08:36
MOUSSA (Off screen)
So you had a husband waiting for you when you got here?

GOUNDO (On screen)
Awô.

TC 00:09:11
TEXT SCREEN #1:
Mrs. Goundo’s husband fled ethnic conflict in Mali in 1990 and applied for asylum in the U.S.

TC 00:09:19
TEXT SCREEN #2:
His application was denied. His face will not be shown in this film.

TC 00:09:26
GOUNDO’S HUSBAND (Off screen)
I’ve been living here 17 years. I’ve been here so long, I haven’t visited my family. That really really bothers me. It’s more difficult now after 9/11. You don’t have papers, you’re afraid all the time. You don’t know what’s gonna happen. Djenabou is here. We want what’s best for her. If we go back, I don’t think it’ll be good for her. Because they’re going to do circumcision on the girl.

TC 00:10:01
SCHOOL CROSSING GUARD (On screen)
C’mon. Let’s go. We’re late.

TC 00:10:04
GOUNDO’S HUSBAND (Off screen)
When we lived in Africa we had no choice. But now I know it’s very very bad.

TC 00:10:39
GOUNDO (On screen)
Is it cold outside?

MOUSSA (Off screen)
Just a little.

TC 00:10:46
MOUSSA (Off screen)
We’re going to Mrs. Goundo’s lawyer’s office to prepare Mrs. Goundo for the hearing. Mrs.Goundo,

TC 00:10:54
MOUSSA (On screen)
do you have the address?

TC 00:10:59
MOUSSA (Off screen)
If you want to apply for asylum,

TC 00:11:01
MOUSSA (On screen)
it has to be in a time frame,
MOUSSA (Off screen)
like one year after your arrival. But Mrs. Goundo applied for asylum five or six years after her arrival. She thought that once you come to this country and you have children that was it. That would make you a legal immigrant. But this is not the case.

TC 00:11:31
WILLIAM MARONSKI (On screen)
The third one is going to be a biographic information sheet.
WILLIAM MARONSKI (Off and on screen)
The likelihood of getting asylum’s probably about a 10 or 20 per cent chance.

TC 00:11:38
SUBTITLE:
William Maronski, Mrs. Goundo’s attorney

WILLIAM MARONSKI (Off and on screen)
Of all the people that apply, you’ll be lucky if one or two out of ten actually get asylum.
Judges normally don’t believe the stories people provide to them. A lot of times
the person testifying seems to be inconsistent and they’re not, it’s just a breakdown in the communications and therefore judges say that they lack credibility and they usually wind up denying the asylum application on that basis alone.

TC 00:12:11
GOUNDO (Off screen)
When you’re in Africa and you hear “America,” you want to come here at all costs.
Once you get here, you realize how tough it is.

TC 00:12:40
My husband works but it’s hard for one person to provide for a whole family. If we both work, all the money goes to babysitters.
You can’t let children play outside. Someone might take them away. Sometimes I wish my parents hadn’t brought me here.

TC 00:13:24
GOUNDO (Off screen)
Over there it’s more entertaining. Here there’s cold and work. Everyday there’s fun. There are weddings and baby showers. You get to see all your family.

TC 00:13:56
GOUNDO (Off screen)
My mother has six girls and four boys. My father’s other wife has eight children.
Girls stay home. They wash dishes and cook and take care of their younger siblings.
TC 00:14:24
Boys go to the market and help our father. In Africa they play outside. They have everything.

TC 00:15:08
GOUNDO (Off screen)
I’m homesick, but I can’t go and leave my daughter here.
TC 00:15:29
Here is also good but my people are in Africa.

TC 00:15:58
VILLAGE ELDER (On screen)
It’s one of our ancient customs. From very, very long ago.
Excision. Is it possible to cut this flesh without pain? It’s painful. A huge pain.

TC 00:16:19
VILLAGE ELDER (Off screen)
The mother and father are in anguish until the cutting is over. Even siblings can’t sleep the night before a exccision ceremony.

TC 00:16:28
VILLAGE ELDER (On screen)
It’s a Bambara tradition. We can’t lessen its force. But it’s very painful

TC 00:16:35
SUBTITLE:
Kadidia Sidibé, health activist

TC 00:16:40
KADIDIA SIDIBE (Off screen)
The first type of excision consists of cutting the clitoral hood and the tip of the clitoris.
Type 2 consists of cutting the hood, the clitoris and the labia minora. This type is very popular and makes up 67% of the cutting in Mali. Type 3 is called infibulation and consists of cutting the clitoris, the labia minora and part of the labia majora. After that, they stitch the labia majora so that the woman is completely closed.
TC 00:17:16
This month, in this neighborhood alone, we’ve handled six deaths. Four day old babies. Just this month. Even if the babies die, they attribute it to divine will. An excisor who cuts the genitalia of a two-day old girl, she doesn’t know anything about this genitalia.

TC 00:17:46
KADIDIA SIDIBE (On screen)
She cuts. It was supposed to be the clitoris. She ends up removing the entire clitoris, the labia minora and labia majora all at once.

Imam leading prayers

TC 00:18:02
SUBTITLE:
Imam Mamadou Konaté

TC 00:18:08
IMAM KONATE (On screen)
A plane crash is much more dangerous than excision and still people board planes. Even cigarette smoke is more harmful than excision.
TC 00:18:19
IMAM KONATE (Off screen)
If a woman desires to be with a man ten times, excuse my language, excision will cut the desire in half. Even excised, they scale the wall for men.
TC 00:18:37
IMAM KONATE (On screen)
If they weren’t excised, we’d feed on each other.

TC 00:18:49
KADIDIA DJENEPO (On screen)
Excision is a way for men to control women’s sexuality.

TC 00:18:54
SUBTITLE:
Kadidia Djénépo, health activist

TC 00:18:58
KADIDIA DJENEPO (Off screen)
The men travel a lot to find work. And they leave the women behind for three months, six months, one year, three years, often even more. They think if a woman isn’t excised, she’ll be unfaithful during her husband’s absence. And even when he’s there, he thinks if she is not excised, every time she has the chance, she’ll sleep with another man. All the men think like that.

TC 00:19:44
Trolley. Goundo leaves home. Philadelphia braiding salon

TC 00:20:19
WOMAN #1 IN BRAIDING SALON (On screen)
People say that girls on the street are fast because they’re not excised.

TC 00:20:25
WOMAN #2 IN BRAIDING SALON (On and Off screen)
Excision is done to cut down women’s pleasure.

TC 00:20:32
WOMAN #1 IN BRAIDING SALON (On and Off screen)
To me it’s been a nuisance. Because in our tradition a man can have several wives. If one of them is not excised, he’ll like her better than you. Isn’t that a loss to us? Because the way they explain it, if you’re excised, pardon me, the pleasure a woman can give is diminished.

TC 00:21:00
WOMAN #3 - BRAIDING IN SALON (On screen)
Excision did a lot of damage to me. All my children are born premature. At four months my cervix is open. Do you understand? It’s not good.

TC 00:21:14
WOMAN #4 IN BRAIDING SALON (On screen)
Two of my children were born by C-section. All this because of excision.

TC 00:21:18
WOMAN #1 IN BRAIDING SALON (On and Off screen)
To me it has no benefit any longer. I’m not talking about someone else, my daughter won’t be excised.

TC 00:21:25
GOUNDO
No one wants her daughter to be excised.

Goundo wrapping Djenabou’s hair

TC 00:21:48
MOUSSA (Off screen)
If you return home, and they want to excise your daughter, can you stop it?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
I can’t.

MOUSSA (Off screen)
Why can’t you?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
Because you can’t stop them from doing anything.

MOUSSA (Off screen)
Who can’t you stop? Who’s going to excise her?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
My mother and father.

MOUSSA (Off screen)
Can’t you disagree with them?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
I can’t. They’ll be angry.


TC 00:22:22
MOUNTAGA TOURE (Off screen)
There’s every possibility that someone will have your child excised without your knowledge. While you’re here interviewing me, if you were Malian, and had a daughter of four, five, six, seven years old in your village or city, even at home, even a neighbor can take your child away to be excised. While you are here!

TC 00:22:46
MOUNTAGA TOURE (On screen)
And they will tell you, “It’s God who did that.”

TC 00:22:51
SUBTITLE:
Mountaga Touré, health activist
(in English) It is an act of God.

TC 00:23:05
KADIDIA DJENEPO (Off screen)
I have two daughters who were excised.
KADIDIA DJENEPO (On screen)
But it wasn’t my decision. I had decided never to excise them.

TC 00:23:16
KADIDIA DJENEPO (Off screen)
But they went on vacation to my parents’ home, and their grandparents excised them without consulting me. In our society the grandparents, the in-laws, think they have the right to decide for your children. Even as an educated woman, I couldn’t do anything.

TC 00:23:53
Text Screen #1:
Mrs. Goundo and her husband are members of the Soninké ethnic group.

TC 00:23:57
Text Screen #2:
The Soninké, like most Malians, practice Islam.

TC 00:24:03
SONINKÉ MAN (Off screen)
We are Soninké. We’re the same people. Wherever we are in the world, we are still one family.

TC 00:24:13
SONINKÉ MAN (On screen)
Religion brought excision to the Soninké people. If you are religious, then you cannot abandon it.

TC 00:24:24
SONINKÉ WOMAN (On screen)
You can see the difference between an excised girl and one that isn’t. It’s always better for a girl to be excised.

TC 00:24:36
OTHER SONINKÉ MAN (On screen)
She was recently excised.

TC 00:24:50
SONINKÉ WOMAN (Off screen)
Protection

TC 00:24:52
SONINKÉ MAN (Off screen)
We cannot speak for Soninké people living abroad. But Soninké girls who are here must follow our customs.

TC 00:25:21
Trolly to Philadelphia mosque
TC 00:25:33
SUBTITLE
Imam Sangaré, Philadelphia
TC 00:25:37
IMAM SANGARE (Off screen)
My wife and I are in the same situation. We have a daughter who is four years old and our case is pending before the judge.

TC 00:25:46
IMAM SANGARE (On screen)
Indeed, we have excision back home but it’s a tradition, not Islam.
IMAM SANGARE (Off screen)
The word Islam means peace. Whatever means peace should not inflict pain.

TC 00:26:06
IMAM KONATE (On screen)
It was done to the wives of the Prophet and to the Prophet’s daughter. If you’re a true Muslim you have to follow the Prophet.

TC 00:26:15
SUBTITLE:
Imam Baba Hasseye, Mali

TC 00:26:18
IMAM HASSEYE (On screen)
The Prophet did not recommend excision. He did not say to excise. When he finds out about people who excise, he tells them do not overdo it, do not go deep. He didn’t recommend it, he didn’t prohibit it.
IMAM HASSEYE (Off screen)
People who hold onto this tradition want to make it religious to gain support for it and preserve it.

TC 00:26:50
KADIDIA SIDIBE (Off screen)
We work in the communities. In the workshops we organize, women are speaking out more about excision.

TC 00:27:08
KADIDIA DJENEPO (Off screen)
When we share information we learn that some of you suffer greatly.

TC 00:27:12
KADIDIA DJENEPO (On screen)
Those of you who suffer should make it public.

TC 00:27:17
EDUCATOR (Off screen)
People say excision must be done because it’s an Islamic practice.
EDUCATOR (On screen)
This is just to put a veil of respectability on the matter.

TC 00:27:29
KADIDIA DJENEPO (On screen)
We said it was for Islam, for health, for purification, but we found all this not to be true.

TC 00:27:35
EDUCATOR (Off screen)
It’s something that we continue to do without even knowing why we do it.
TC 00:27:41
KADIDIA SIDIBE (Off screen)
The reason I’m involved in this fight is simple.
TC 00:27:45
KADIDIA SIDIBE (On screen)
I was teaching high school and one of my students died because of infibulation.

TC 00:27:57
KADIDIA SIDIBE (Off screen)
The girl was kicked out by her parents because they thought she was pregnant. But she had an infection. For three months she didn’t menstruate and her belly swelled. I took her to the gynecologist. She was already rotten inside. She told me,” I’m going to die.” I said, “No, you won’t die. They’ll operate.” But I had no idea of the extent of the infection. By the time I get to her house, she is dead. The work is not easy.

TC 00:28:36
KADIDIA SIDIBE (On screen)
I’ve been insulted on the radio, in the newspapers, by the relgious community.
KADIDIA SIDIBE (Off screen)
But it’s as if I made a promise to this girl to avenge her death,
KADIDIA SIDIBE (On screen)
to protect other girls.
KADIDIA SIDIBE (Off screen)
So that other girls don’t die the way she did.

TC 00:28:51
Car drives up. Educator and Mountaga get out.
TC 00:28:52
MME. KANTE (Off screen)
My name is Madame Kanté. Our job is about improving the health of women and children.
My sisters, in your opinion, what are some of the damaging effects of excision?

TC 00:29:11
WOMAN #1 (On screen)
Sometimes the girls bleed a lot. They get dizzy. Some get tetanus.

TC 00:29:19
MME. KANTE (Off and On screen)
Some children are traumatized. They get confused. They don’t trust anyone anymore.

TC 00:29:30
WOMAN#2 (On screen)
Some women, when they get married, are closed to penetration.

MME. KANTE (Off screen)
She has sexual difficulty.

TC 00:29:37
MME. KANTE (On screen)
Okay, do you see this? This is the difficulty linked to intercourse. You see how difficult it is for the woman. This is the difficulty during childbirth.

TC 00:29:54
MME. KANTE (Off screen)
This is a woman who urinates uncontrollably after excision. We treated a woman here who had this problem. She wears a diaper, but it smells.

TC 00:30:11
MME. KANTE (On screen)
You lose the esteem of your husband and then the esteem of the villagers.

TC 00:30:52
GOUNDO (Voice over)
I think about my case all the time. I never thought this would happen to me.
It’s too heavy for me. At night I can’t sleep. I feel like crying. I don’t know what’s going to happen to me and my children.

TC 00:31:22
TEXT SCREEN:
March 1, 2007
Mrs. Goundo’s Court Hearing

TC 00:31:27
MOUSSA (On screen)
Take your stuff out. Your papers.

GOUNDO (On screen)
I gave them to you.

MOUSSA (On screen)
I have them?

GOUNDO (On screen)
I thought you took them?
You put them inside something.

MOUSSA (On screen)
Okay, I’ll go back and get them.


TC 00:31:53
GOUNDO (On screen)
What if they don’t get an interpreter?

MOUSSA (Off screen)
That’ll be a problem.

GOUNDO (On screen)
They’ll have to hire you.

TC 00:32:01
MOUSSA (On screen)
It’s possible they’ll call someone in Washington, even though you’re here.

GOUNDO (On screen)
To translate over the telephone?

MOUSSA (On screen)
Yes.

GOUNDO (On screen)
But what if I don’t understand him?

MOUSSA (On screen)
If you don’t understand, say that you don’t understand.

TC 00:32:16
MOUSSA (Off screen)
They’ll find someone who speaks Soninké.

GOUNDO (On screen)
May God let them find that person and that we understand each other.

TC 00:32:28
MOUSSA (Off screen)
Ah. The sketch artist.

Yes. He knows his job.

MOUSSA (Off screen)
Yes, the guy knows how to draw. When it’s done you’ll recognize yourself in the sketch.
Just one day of the film crew goes a long way.

TC 00:32:48
GOUNDO (Off screen)
They’re professionals. They took classes for it.

TC 00:32:53
MOUSSA (On screen)
How are you? Do you speak Soninké?

INTERPRETER (On screen)
Yes.
Okay, merci. Okay, thank you guys.

TC 00:33:13
GOUNDO (On screen)
It seems like he’s a good guy.
GOUNDO (Off screen)
He came early.
I was really afraid of the telephone thing. I’m scared, but he said he understands.

MOUSSA (Off screen)
Working won’t be a problem if you get asylum.

TC 00:33:35
GOUNDO (Off screen)
When I was working in a salon, a woman said to me, “You cover your head and act like an old lady.” That’s because she’s not Muslim. I didn’t like working in a braiding salon.

TC 00:33:52
GOUNDO (On screen)
I’d rather get a job doing laundry or cleaning. Or be a housekeeper.

TC 00:34:00
MOUSSA (On screen)
Lots of Soninké men don’t want to their wives to work.

GOUNDO (On screen)
Because at work their co-workers don’t say anything good in their ears.
Really. That’s why. When the women start to work their behavior changes.

TC 00:34:22
MOUSSA (On screen)
But if the man and woman both work . . .

GOUNDO (Offf screen)
They help each other.

MOUSSA (On screen)
But if the man has to handle everything alone, that’s tough.

GOUNDO (On screen)
But in the end, the woman will tell the man, “We both work, I can do what I want…I have money, I’ll buy what I want.”

TC 00:34:40
MOUSSA (Off screen)
Right. Because the woman is not a slave.

GOUNDO (On screen)
In Islam God didn’t make woman a slave.

MOUSSA
Voilà.

TC 00:34:52
WILLIAM MARONSKI (Off screen)
I don’t know that I’m ever confident toward a result. Judges are quite divergent on what may or may not happen.

TC 00:34:59
WILLIAM MARONSKI (On screen)
One judge may grant it as an automatic situation, others may deny it. As far as case law they come down on both sides.
WILLIAM MARONSKI (Off screen)
We have two basis for asylum. In this case it was a past persecution claim for what had
WILLIAM MARONSKI (On screen)
happened to her and then we also have a well-founded fear of future persecution for the daughter, Djenabou.

TC 00:35:20
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
When we excise the girls, witches come.
We do some things to ward off evil so there won’t be any disaster.
We cut down some tree branches and spread the leaves on the ground. We sweep the ground clean. Then we put containers of water all over the place.

TC 00:35:42
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
Take what’s inside the calabash and give it to me.
Pour it and give it to her. Move fast.

TC 00:36:08
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
We’ll keep the evil away with these strings.
TC 00:36:17
This one looks short.
TC 00:36:25
Tie the string on their neck and waist and get them in line.
TC 00:36:29
WOMAN (Off screen)
Make them shorter. We’re running out of string.

TC 00:36:40
WOMAN (Off screen)
All the girls have string on their waists.

TC 00:36:44
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
The camera crews should go now. When we’re done excising the girls we’ll call them to come back.

TC 00:36:53
PHILADELPHIA: COURTROOM
MOUSSA (On screen)
We’ll go inside.

TC 00:36:56
JUDGE (Off screen)
This is Judge Malloy in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, March 1st 2007. This case is on today for the respondent’s merits in her application for asylum. However I have some questions to ask before we start. When you arrived you were fifteen years old, correct?

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
Yes.

JUDGE (Off screen)
Because we have a one-year issue. When did you turn 21?
Let me rephrase. How old are you today?

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
22, right now.

JUDGE (Off screen)
What’s the government’s position on the timeliness of the filing?


GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY (Off screen)
I would say the application is untimely, Judge. She had a year either from her 18th birthday or when she got married, whichever came first.

JUDGE (Off screen)
Mr. Maronski?

TC 00:37:40
WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
There is an exception to the one-year time limit for extraordinary circumstances. The asylum claim comes from the birth of her daughter.

JUDGE (Off screen)
All right. Respondent come forward.

TC 00:37:52
WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
In the affidavit you indicate that you were in fact circumcised. Is that true?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]


INTERPRETER (Off screen)
Yes

TC 00:38:02
WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
Was your sister, Koumba, also circumcised?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
Yes

WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
And you sister Kadidia?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
Yes.

WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
Was your sister Assa also circumcised?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
Yes.

WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
And your sister Adama, was she circumcised?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
Yes

WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
And your youngest sister?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
Yes

TC 00:38:26
WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
In your statement, you further indicate that you’ve witnessed others being circumcised. Is that also true?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
Yes

TC 00:38:44
GOUNDO (Off screen)
My sister and I witnessed a circumcision. We went next to the door. There was a young girl inside screaming and screaming.
TC 00:39:04
An old lady came out holding the young girl in her hands. She was bleeding. Crying, crying. Bleeding. When I heard the girl crying I thought they cut her in pieces. I was eight years old when I saw that. I had nightmares about it all the time

TC 00:39:36
WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
Was that your sister?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
That was my sister.

TC 00:39:41

WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
If the judge decided you had to leave the United States, what do you believe would happen to your daughter, Djenabou?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
She would be circumcised and I don’t agree with that.

WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
Who would do that?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
My parents.

WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
Couldn’t you and your brothers and sisters stop this from happening?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
No we cannot. It’s a part of our culture. We cannot stop that.

TC 00:40:11
GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY (Off screen)
Judge, if I may?

JUDGE (Off screen)
Yes.

GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY (Off screen)
Her daughter is a United States citizen.

JUDGE (Off screen)
Yes, I know.

GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY (Off screen)
There’s no likelihood of her being deported.

JUDGE (Off screen)
You’re absolutely right. We cannot deport a United States citizen. However, if the mother is deported, what are you saying?

GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY (Off screen)
I’m just…

JUDGE (Off screen)
Answer the question, please.

TC 00:40:34
GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY (Off screen)
Arrangement can be made. I’m not being insensitive. I’m not saying she has to leave her daughter here in the United States. But I’m just pointing out to the court that the U.S. citizen daughter is not being removed from this country.


JUDGE (Off screen)
Absolutely.

GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY (Off screen)
We have no right to remove citizens.

TC 00:40:50
JUDGE (Off screen)
You’re absolutely right.

WILLIAM MARONSKI (off screen)
Respectfully, your Honor, that runs contrary to the time honored policy of family unity in United States law. Is there somebody here in the United States that you could leave your daughter with?

GOUNDO (Off screen)
[Speaking Soninké – not translated]

INTERPRETER (Off screen)
No. I don’t have anyone.


TC 00:41:09
MALI: AFTER THE EXCISION CEREMONY

TC 00:41:32
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
I just excised all 62 of these girls today. All by myself.
TC 00:41:41
VOICES OF WOMEN (Off screen)
Let’s go. Let’s go. Get the girls closer.
TC 00:41:51
Face me. Stay side by side.

TC 00:42:03
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (On screen)
Take a drink and move aside.
TC 00:42:11
Give it to them in turn.

TC 00:42:14
WOMAN (Off screen)
They didn’t get the sauce yet.
TC 00:42:42
Stop crying! You’re going to get some sauce.

TC 00:42:57
WOMAN (On screen)
We’re going to go slowly.

TC 00:43:05
WOMAN (On screen)
We have to bring the girls to the village now.

TC 00:43:27
If she wants to stay alone she can. We have to go or we’re going to be late.

TC 00:43:36
MOUNTAGA TOURE (Off screen)
You saw the little girl. She had a hard time walking. She said someone has to carry me. They told her, you have to walk. Finally a woman picked her up and brought her next to the others.
(In English) I was very, very sad.
TC 00:44:271
MOUNTAGA TOURE (On screen)
I’m from Mali. It was very, very hard. I don’t want anybody to see that.

TC 00:44:30
PHILADELPHIA: COURTROOM

TC 00:44:33
JUDGE (Off screen)
This is the oral decision in the matter of the respondent. The court finds that without any relatives in the United States and with a husband who doesn’t have legal status, it’s illogical that she’s going to leave the child here in the United States. I find that she certainly has suffered past persecution. We have evidence certainly that she’s undergone FGM [Female Genital Mutilation]. And based on background material it is clear to this court, if her daughter is taken to Mali she’ll be forced to undergo FGM as well. So therefore I find that she is eligible for asylum.
The Government reserves appeal?

TC 00:45:17
GOVERNMENT ATTORNEY (Off screen)
I will reserve with regards to the issue of asylum.

JUDGE (Off screen)
The government has until June 7, 2007 to appeal.

TC 00:45:30
MOUSSA (On screen)
It went well. Didn’t I tell you it would? I even cried. There’s no problem.

GOUNDO (On screen)
That’s what you say. But as for me…

TC 00:45:45
MOUSSA (Off screen)
It’s over. Everyone told you it would go well.

GOUNDO (On screen)
It’s not over until the government lawyer says he agrees.

TC 00:45:52
WILLIAM MARONSKI (On screen)
I’m just going to take her to the window. What’s going to happen is they’re going to give her a notice that says she has to go to 8th and Arch to get her fingerprints done. What the judge basically said was it can’t become a final order until it’s shown that she doesn’t have any criminal issues.

MOUSSA (On screen)
Okay.

TC 00:46:11
WILLIAM MARONSKI (On screen)
We’ll see in fact whether the government does in fact decide to appeal the case or whether they just let well enough be.
TC 00:46:15
WILLIAM MARONSKI (Off screen)
The case law in the circuits is split on whether or not persecution of a U.S. citizen is a recognizable claim in terms of asylum. And that’s basically the government‘s position, that the citizen is not being deported. The daughter doesn’t have to go back. So where’s the well-founded fear of future persecution.
TC 00:46:32
WILLIAM MARONSKI (On screen)
They’re putting her in the situation where you either have to leave you child here in the United States or, if you take her back, you’re not only exposing her to the risk but then you, in essence, are becoming a persecutor.

MOUSSA (On screen)
So what I’m gonna do…


TC 00:46:57
MALI: EXCISED GIRLS WALK BACK TO VILLAGE
TC 00:47:04
GRIOT (On screen)
A noble daughter is walking. Open the way for her. Walk the daughters of good mothers slowly.

TC 00:47:37
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (On screen)
The mothers worry before their daughters are excised.
GUISSE MAIMOUNA (Off screen)
Once the excision is over, they’re happy.

TC 00:47:53
ANOTHER WOMAN
Is the house ready for the excised girls? Sit them over there.

TC 00:47:58
WOMAN (On screen)
When the girls are excised, we gather villages together. We gather people together. We bring out the crowds.
WOMAN (Off screen)
You call your siblings, your friends, your kin. When the crowds are gathered, we pour water. Then we dance the fari fari.

TC 00:49:13
Text screen #1
After the hearing, Mrs. Goundo’s husband becomes ill and is hospitalized for several months.

TC 00:49:19
Text screen #2
They decide to send their sons to live with their grandparents in Africa.

TC 00:49:27
GOUNDO (Off screen)
I miss my sons. Djenabou says their names every time she sees their picture. I talk to them every day.

TC 00:50:02
MOUSSA (On screen)
(Voila). Here’s the paper. The government lawyer didn’t agree. He appealed the decision. This is the appeal paper. Do you understand?

GOUNDO (On screen)
Yes I see it.

MOUSSA (On screen)
Here it is. You see?

GOUNDO (On screen)
That’s enough. Don’t even show it to me.

TC 00:50:32
MOUSSA (Off screen)
She was very down and she told me that she was unhappy with the decision of the government lawyer to appeal the decision. And I had to cheer her up and tell her that, you know, these are things that happen all the time. It doesn’t mean you lost the whole case. She said if it were not for Djenabou she would prefer to go back home.

TC 00:50:59
WILLIAM MARONSKI (On screen)
I was kind of disappointed that the government took the appeal in the first place.
WILLIAM MARONSKI (Off screen)
They totally mischaracterized the evidence. Right now they’re saying the judge is wrong. She can’t apply for asylum. The reason is she’s barred by the one-year rule. And that’s just not the case.

TC 00:51:24
GOUNDO (Off screen)
That day I was completely down. We had been happy with the decision. Now it turned out this way.

TC 00:51:39
WILLIAM MARONSKI (Off screen)
She’s caught between a rock and a hard place if this doesn’t go well. Either she’s gonna be forced to leave without her daughter, or she takes her daughter, neither of them’s coming back, and the child will suffer the harm that she’s afraid of, like 90% of everybody else that lives in Mali that’s female.


TC 00:52:27
SUBTITLE
Josephine Keita, government official
TC 00:52:30
JOSEPHINE KEITA (On screen)
Today, Mali does not have a law banning excision.
JOSEPHINE KEITA (Off screen)
If Mali adopted a law against excision, people would just do it in hiding. It is much better to convince people to abandon the practice of excision than to adopt a law that we cannot enforce.

TC 00:52:49
MOUNTAGA TOURE (On screen)
I believe we need a law and need it now.
MOUNTAGA TOURE (Off screen)
It’s time for Mali to join other nations and outlaw excision.

TC 00:53:13
ASSA KIDA (On and off screen)
(Singing)
Girls’ excision is not a good thing.
From the ones who gave birth to me to the elders.
Womens’ excision is not a good thing.
To the ones who gave birth to me excision is not a good thing.
It diminishes you.

TC 00:53:30
SUBTITLE
Assa Kida: Malian Pop Singer

ASSA KIDA (On screen)
People called me and said, “Assita, we’re fans of yours, but why do you sing about excision?”
I said that I do it dor the well-being of all Malian women.
TC 00:53:43
(Singing)
Don’t trivialize their future.
Don’t destroy their future.
Change the minds of the doubtful.
Bannish the knives of excision.
Make it a tool for unity so that all the world can sing in harmony.

TC 00:53:57
KADIDIA DJENEPO (Off screen)
I am not alone in this fight.
KADIDIA DJENEPO (On screen)
There are lots of women in Mali doing this work.
KADIDIA DJENEPO (Off screen)
Today, we have entire villages that have decided to abandon excision.Villages that will even broadcast on TV that they have abandoned excision.
KADIDIA DJENEPO (On screen)
It’s a long fight but it will be won.

TC 00:54:28
MME. KANTE (Off screen)
When we started working in this village in 1997 you wouldn’t dare talk against excision here.
MME. KANTE (On screen)
But in 2002, this same village abandoned excision.
MME. KANTE (Off screen)
So, it’s little by little. Giving up tradition doesn’t happen at the drop of a hat.

TC 00:55:03
MOUNTAGA TOURE (Off screen)
When the battle is declared a success by adopting a law, when excision is banned throughout Mali, that’s when Mrs. Goundo can come to Mali with her daughter. But not a moment before.

TC 00:55:20
TEXT SCREEN #1
For a year, Mrs. Goundo and her husband wait to hear the results of the appeal.

TC 00:55:26
TEXT SCREEN #2
During that time, Mrs. Goundo gives birth to another daughter.

TC 00:55:33
GOUNDO (On screen)
Djenabou is getting along with her. She’s picks her up when she cries and brings her to me in the kitchen. She’s a good big sister now, but when she grows it’s anyone’s guess.

TC 00:55:48
MOUSSA GOUNDO (On screen)
Now you have two daughters to protect.

GOUNDO (Off screen)
Thanks to God.

TC 00:55:54
MOUSSA (On screen)
It’s almost time for our appointment with the lawyer. Our meeting is at three o’clock with Mr. Maronski.
MOUSSA (Off screen)
Are you happy that you’re going to find out about your papers?

TC 00:56:08
GOUNDO (On screen)
Not until they’re in my hands. I’m too nervous to eat. How many years has it been? Since Djenabou was three months old. Three years now. Imagine getting my papers.

TC 00:56:39
Lawyer’s office
WILLIAM MARONSKI (On and Off screen)
All right, well we’re here to do your paperwork today. The appeal that was filed was obviously never perfected. So the judge’s order’s a final order.
All right. Now we waited a year and now we’re eligible to file and that’s what we’re doing today, processing for your Green Card.
TC 00:56:54
Winning any case is a great feeling cause somebody gets to remain in the United States, but asylum in particular because it’s based on such a harsh treatment that they’re almost certainly going to face if they return to their home country,
WILLIAM MARONSKI (Off screen)
they’re not going to face that and that’s the extra bonus in getting an approval on an asylum-type case.
Well that’s pretty much everything. All right.

MOUSSA (On screen)
All right.

TC 00:57:15
GOUNDO (On screen)
Thank you.

WILLIAM MARONSKI (On screen)
Congratulations. No, I’m glad, I’m glad everything-- we just got to get it finalized and filed because even though we’re to do everything and once we get it in the government’s hands, we still don’t know what’s gonna happen. They can mess anything up. But as long as we get it in their hands …

TC 00:57:53
MOUSSA (Voice over)
Now it’s happiness time.

TC 00:58:30
Text screen
Each year as many as 3 million girls around the world are subjected to genital cutting. That’s 8,000 girls per day.


TC 00:58:43
START CREDITS