FROM THE MOUNTAINS OF KURDISTAN TO THE PALACES OF BAGHDAD
/ length 27’32”
?? = If very unclear.
10:00:00:00 START
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:00:17:00 So I was planning to come back to Baghdad, but not as president of the
country.
DR. DENISE NATALI (AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN SULEIMANIYA)
10:00:27:11 There are very few people who can bring the Sunnis and Shias and Kurds
together.
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:00:40:07 Sometimes we were bombarded by helicopters, but we remained safe.
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:10:50:10 I expected that Talabani will be re-elected.
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:01:43:13 You know, for the first time in the Middle East Iraq has a kind of democracy
which guarantees all kind of democratic rights for all Iraqi people.
HOSHYAR ZEBARI (THE FOREIGN MINISTER OF IRAQ)
10:02:20:10 It was the most difficult test in my life to prove that I can represent this
country, its interest, its national interest, - beyond my ethnic agenda or my background to
be a nationalist.
NARRATOR
10:02:44:23 This is the Iraqi National Symphony Orchestra, performing in the Kurdish city
of Suleimaniya in northern Iraq. Kurdistan is the only part of Iraq that has remained safe
after the fall of Saddam in 2003.
10:03:02:00 In the year 2000 the orchestra was functioning and rehearsing in difficult
conditions. Saddam’s Iraq was ousted from the international community; the society was
living under heavy UN-sanctions affecting every aspect of the daily life. There was no
salary for the musicians, who turned themselves into cigarette sellers and taxi drivers, no
spare parts for the instruments - and still they were playing.
10:03:44:01 This decades old orchestra is now touring Iraq, and its Baghdad base
musicians are astonished by the peace and quiet of Kurdistan.
MUSICIANS ON STREET
10:03:59:23 Where will you go? We go to the town. The centre. Yeah.
NARRATOR
10:04:04:17 The visit gives a rare opportunity to stroll around without fear. In Baghdad the
orchestra does not even make advertisements for the concerts in fear of attacks, for some
people Western classical music is a sin. The fall of Saddam’s regime might have been
widely desired. but the outcome was unexpected.
MUNTHIR JAMIL HAFIDH (VIOLINIST)
10:04:26:06 We were hoping to have a democratic government and a free place to live in
Iraq and maybe a different situation for our families (and all that). But now we have the
money, we have the petrol, we have everything, but we are very strict. Nobody can get
money from the oil. I mean you and I. We can not get anything from the oil. From a
freedom situation, - you are not free. Although you are free, you are not free, - you see.
You can travel, but you can not travel. You see what I mean? You can not go anywhere
you like in Iraq because of this or that or you know. This kind of living is ridiculous.
LEENA REIKKO (REPORTER)
10:05:21:11 And when you come here to Kurdistan do feel that it is different?
MUNTHIR JAMIL HAFIDH (VIOLINIST)
10:05:26:01 It is different. Entirely different.
LEENA REIKKO (REPORTER)
10:05:28:01 In what way?
MUNTHIR JAMIL HAFIDH (VIOLINIST)
10:05:29:09 I mean I can not see any bad situation. I mean the society is calm and well
organized and the people are involved in their work. As a tourist I find it different, quite
different.
MUNTHIR JAMIL HAFIDH (VIOLINIST)
10:05:57:17 In my place you have to be very acute. To go there and go there and go there.
For instance I can not let my child go to school without me. You see what I mean. But here
I feel more free than in Baghdad.
NARRATOR
10:06:51:17 The Kurds have also become important players in the palaces of power in
Baghdad. Several Kurdish former freedom-fighters, or “peshmergas” as they are known in
Kurdistan, have turned into statesmen, among them President Jalal Talabani. He became
politically active as a teenager and founded his own party, The Patriotic Union of Kurdistan
in the mid 70’s. For decades he was a peshmerga leader fighting Saddam Hussein and
the Iraqi army in the mountains of Kurdistan. He was known as Mam Jalal, or Uncle Jalal,
and could not imagine of becoming the successor of his old enemy, Saddam Hussein. But
the unbelievable for a Kurd happened in 2005. He became the president of Iraq.
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:07:38:04 When I was young I wanted to be a professor in a university. I was planning to
get a PhD and become a professor in a university. Although I was active in the political life
since childhood, it was not our dream to be President of Iraq because we never though it
would be possible. But I was of course expected to be in Baghdad for example as a
member of Parliament or a professor of a university because I have loved Baghdad from
early childhood. (??). So I was planning to come back to Baghdad, but not as president of
the country.
LEENA REIKKO (REPORTER)
10:08:37:10 So it was a surprise?
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:08:38:19 Yes. It was strange for me.
NARRATOR
10:08:52:06 For the leaders, Baghdad is a city of endless meetings, conspiracies, and
political crisis. Among the old Iraqi opposition he is know as one of the most long-lived
political figures in a country where the opponents of Saddam often faced an early death.
NARRATOR
10:09:24:19 Denise Natali is an academic at the American University in Suleimaniya and
has been following the development in Iraq and especially Kurdistan since the early 90’s.
She see Talabani as a balancing figure in Baghdad.
DR. DENISE NATALI (AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN SULEIMANIYA)
10:09:38:17 There are very few people who can bring the Sunnis and Shias and Kurds
together. Whether his role was symbolic or not, as the president of Iraq I think he did an
excellent job of keeping relative compatibility among all of these groupings.
NARRATOR
10:09:57:24 Another Kurdish important figure in Baghdad in Hoshyar Zebari, the foreign
minister. An influential role in Baghdad was unheard of during Saddams rule.
HOSHYAR ZEBARI (THE FOREIGN MINISTER OF IRAQ)
10:10:09:03 It was unbelievable. Even in my wildest dreams I didn’t think that I could be in
Baghdad, to be the foreign minister of Iraq, to represent this country, and to be the face of
Iraq internationally. Every day we come to work at the ministry like it is a fight. We need
the security officers, the guards and so on, to be prepared. Because that has been our life.
If you had been here three of four years ago I would not have been able to have this
conversation with you, because of the firing, because of the bombing, because of the
continuous firing around this building. I have personally escaped three big car bombs.
In this business you lose your private life or your freedom. Being a public figure or a well
known person, you lose your private freedom. You can not go out. You can not enjoy
yourself. You can not be yourself. Sometimes you can not walk alone for instance. You
have to be looked after by the security, protection, escorts, protocol. And this is sometimes
boring to be honest with you.
NARRATOR
10:12:17:18 The history of the Iraqi Kurds is a history of bloodshed and oppression. And it
is also a history of stubbornness and faith. “No friends but the mountains” is an old Kurdish
proverb and the mountains indeed helped the peshmerga with their light weapons against
the huge Iraqi army. Young Talabani joined the armed struggle in the early 60’s.
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:12:44:04 We lived in mountains, in valleys, in caves and we were walking everywhere.
At that time we had no roads or cars at all. We were living as simple partisans. (??)
So it was difficult. It was full of difficulties. Sometimes we needed something to eat but
instead we would continue. We decided to continue. Our slogan was “Kurdistan or death”,
“Kurdistan yan na man” . It encouraged us to carry on with the struggle.
+
The struggle was not between arms, it was between the morals of the people. The moral
of the peshmerga with their light weapons was higher than the moral of the Iraqi army with
their huge modern weapons, - tanks, airplanes, artillery. They had all kinds of heavy
weapons while we only had light weapons, but the moral of our people was one of the
main reasons to our continuous success and resist.
+
I started my family before the revolution. We had two children when I went to the
mountains. My wife was there with me, but our children were with their grandmother. Every
Kurd who was in the struggle were far from their family, far from their children, either
fighting in the mountains, living in the prisons or in exile, so it was something ordinary in
Kurdistan.
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:14:46:00 There were many battles and I was not killed. Sometimes the bombs were
exploding near me and sometimes we were bombarded by helicopters but we remained
safe. I can say god saved me, nothing else. There is no other reason.
NARRATOR
10:15:32:06 This museum in Suleimaniya reminds of the cruel military campaign Saddam
organized in the late 80’s, the worst of times for the Kurds. During a short period of time
Saddam killed up to 150 000 Kurds in this operation, called al-Anfal. All the
NARRATOR
10:16:08:16 All the possible weapons, also chemical, were used in order to crush the
Kurdish revolt. It was only after the Gulf war the Kurds got real help from the West and got
their area liberated from Saddams forces. This was a start for a new era, for building an
autonomous Kurdistan, a quasi-state.
+
Today Kurdistan has its own president, parliament and government and its own security
forces, but is still part of federal Iraq.
+
The biggest difference between Kurdistan and other parts of Iraq is the relative safety of
the north.
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:16:50:10 Those who took responsibility of securing Kurdistan were from the
peshmerga, - from the people. From those who were sincere in their struggle for
democracy and for security. In Iraq, the Americans gathered people from the streets for
the new security of Iraq. Many of them had links to terrorism and many of them were and
are against the new regime. And many were not sincere and were not loyal to the new
democracy in Iraq.
+
This is one reason. The second reason; the forces in Kurdistan, all parties, - have been
united in the struggle against terrorism. While in Iraq there are groups symphasizing with
the terrorists and encouraging them. The third reason why the situation in Iraq is
complicated. There are Shias, Sunnis (??) (many different groupings) et cetera which
presented a possibility for terrorists to use. And then the interference by foreign forces in
Iraq which was much more than the interference in the internal affairs in Kurdistan.
DR. DENISE NATALI (AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN SULEIMANIYA)
10:18:32:13 People have over-romanticized this region as well. There is a tremendous
amount of development, - in some sense. But you have really got to be careful when you
talk about economic growth. Because there are no exports, there is no indication of
employment. This is still an import dependent economy. There are still a lot of serious
flaws. People just came and said ooh booming Kurdistan, - its better than Southern Iraq
because there is no fighting. But you know, we need to be careful when we speak of how
strong and autonomous and democratic this region really is.
NARRATOR
10:19:15:09 Kurdistan has now got two powerful parties, Jalal Talabani’s Patriotic Union of
Kurdistan and Barzani’s Democratic Party of Kurdistan. After a few years of bitter civil war
the former arch rivals engaged in a political marriage, suitable for both parties. Now one of
the leaders is the president of Iraq, the other one the president of Kurdistan.
NARRATOR
10:20:08:13 One clear example of the shortcomings of democracy and freedom of the
press is the faith of a young journalist, Shardast Osman. He wrote an imaginary story
about how his life would change, should he marry the daughter of Massud Barzani, the
president of Kurdistan. He was sure he could rise from poverty and also bring his relatives
into welfare and luxury. After publishing the article the 23-year old journalist was
kidnapped and a day later found dead bearing marks of torture and two bullets in his head.
Exceptionally big demonstrations followed.
PROTESTER
10:20:45:15 He thought differently. Thats why they killed him. They don’t accept critical
thinking, they just accept what they like. The red line is if you say something about an
authority. If you say something about other people, they don’t care, but if you say
something about them, they will kill you. Thats the red line.
NARRATOR
10:21:09:08 The official investigation concluded that a religious group killed Osman. This
was an explanation next to nobody believed in.
+
10:21:24:24 There are also other problems. The welfare is unevenly spread, especially the
countryside is forgotten.
DR. DENISE NATALI (AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN SULEIMANIYA)
10:21:36:03 This is what happens in many parts of the developing world. They focus on
the city centers. They develop the urban centers. Mass migration from the villages to the
cities. So what you also have had along with all of these processes over the last twenty
years and what goes on again in developing societies and post-conflict countries is that
people are now going to the cities. All or many of the youths have moved to the cities.
They no longer want to tend the land. It is now unproductive and not lucrative to be a
farmer when you can go and join the security sector. When you look at wage differentials;
farmers are making 100-200 dollars a month and a security guard or a security director
makes 400 a month. For example.
+
10:22:31:14
This young generation is so different, than their parents, in so many ways that they are not
carrying the national torch. They are clearly Kurdish up in the north and they will say that,
but they are not carrying any sense of obligation or responsibility to go and fight for
Kurdistan. Even the peshmerga who were peshmerga wouldn’t go and fight for Kurdistan
today. So there is going to have to be a very clever strategy, because more than 50 % of
the population is under the age of 25. The same kind of phenomenon is going on in other
parts of the Middle-East. The youth are integral to what’s going to happen in the future and
their demands and their thoughts are about jobs, about opportunities and about pretty
much what other young people around the world are asking for today. Its about who has
money and who has the power to make a phone call and get people a job. This is what
explains the thousands of youths who just want to get out all the time despite how secure
this region supposedly is. Despite how economically developing it supposedly is.
Everybody still wants to leave. Why do all the youths still want to leave? Because there are
no opportunities.
NARRATION
10:24:20:22 The Middle-East is not known for strong opposition parties, but Kurdistan
makes an exception even there. “Gorran” or the “Change” is an offshoot from Talabani’s
party and has quickly gained a lot of support.
MOHAMED TOFWIG (THE MOVEMENT FOR CHANGE)
10:24:35:05 Corruption is an issue in this country. Now it is the most corrupt country in the
world, - Iraq including Kurdistan. Corruption is an issue. And not only financial corruption
but political corruption and nepotism. So the people want a new approach. Two things
happened that changed the attitude of the people. One is the internal fighting which lasted
for 4 years, - that was a terrible blow to the people and regarded as a very dark period for
the Kurds. And the second thing is once Saddam was removed from power and the
danger from outside diminished, people had better hopes for improvement in the situation
of Kurdistan. But unfortunately, because of the widespread corruption people became
disappointed again. Especially the young generation.
NARRATOR
10:26:22:22 In Baghdad the Kurds have on many occasions become kingmakers. Both
Shia and Sunni and their different groupings need the Kurdish support. The government
has the actual power in Iraq, but in a country with constant turmoil also the role of the
president is vital. He can unite or divide.
JALAL TALABANI (THE PRESIDENT OF IRAQ)
10:26:52:08 All Iraqi politicians insisted that Talibani can be the man that can arrange a
unity within the Iraqis.