Opening Sequence

CHARLIE BRENNAN: Okay everybody thanks a lot for joining us on KMOX. Charlie Brennan on The Voice of St. Louis. Well I wanna ask you everybody about uh … three woman who were convicted of murder. They were all sentenced to life in prison for killing their husbands or having their husbands killed. There were allegations that the woman had been beaten by their husbands. If you’re beaten by your husband does that give you license to kill ‘em?

 

CHARLIE BRENNAN: Hello Jan you’re on KOMX.

JAN: Hi I’m just calling that ... that I  ... I don’t feel that domestic violence is a reason to kill your spouse. You know I don’t think you should stick around (fades out)

CHARLIE BRENNAN: Don, take it away.

DON: What’s the difference between you walking down the street and being mugged and you kill him, versus a woman who was beaten by her w ... by her husband… (fades out)

CHARLIE BRENNAN: It’s not as if they were in a fight and in self-defense, she got the kitchen butcher knife and killed the guy. Uh in  ... in both of these cases (fades out)

2nd WOMAN: I don’t think the woman should go to jail, it nobody knows how it is.

CHARLIE BRENNAN: They hired hit men, and they had their husband offed. Mafia style. Why didn’t they just leave, as opposed to murdering them?

2nd WOMAN: Um, Hi. I have been beaten by my husband and it’s not that easy to just get out. It is not easy.

CHARLIE BRENNAN: And what prevents you from just … getting the heck out of there?

2nd WOMAN: (Sigh and Pause) I love him.

00:00:33

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:01:03

Opening Credits

OPERATOR: 911

WOMAN 1: My neighbors just come in here and she said she shot her husband.

(WOMAN 2 crying in background)

OPERATOR: By accident on purpose or what?

WOMAN 1: I don’t know sir. I, I know that he does beat on her.

OPERATOR: Ok stay on the line with me ok?

WOMAN 2: (sobbing) Don’t let him get me.

WOMAN 1: He won’t getcha go in there honey. Don’t let him get her.

WOMAN 2: (constant sobbing)

OPERATOR: Take a deep breath honey, I’m not I’m not your enemy I’m your friend listen closely. He’s on the other phone. Ok, he’s talking to us right now. He don’t know where you’re at.

WOMAN 2: Yes he does.

OPERATOR: No he don’t. Did he beat you up?

WOMAN 2: No, not today.

OPERATOR: Why did you shoot him with a gun?

WOMAN 2: I don’t know. He said that he’s gonna kill me.

OPERATOR: He said he was gonna kill you.

WOMAN: No, I know he’s gonna kill me. 

00:02:11

Shows Women’s Eastern Reception, Diagnostic and Correctional Center.

 

 

 

SHIRLEY LUTE: My name is Shirley Lute. I’m 70 years old. I’ve been locked up 23 years, I’ll be locked up 24 February 2002.

INTERVIEWER: And do you know when you’re eligible for parole?

SHIRLEY LUTE: Uh 2028

INTERVIEWER: Ok, and how old will you be then?

SHIRLEY LUTE: ‘Bout 97, 98.

00:03:13

 

 

00:03:18

Exterior of Correctional Center

About six months after … we got married that’s when the abuse started. And uh if I didn’t do everything Melvin said, he used to kick me all the time in my ribs, in my back. Make me steal, prostitute. I didn’t know what to do anymore. He’d jerk me on bed and pull me across the floor. And he, I just couldn’t even … he chained me right almost to the bathroom, and he drove off and just left me chained up.

00:03:40

SUPER. Shirley was convicted of 1st degree murder in 1978 for the hired killing of her husband, Melvin Lute.

The abuse was never mentioned at trial. She received a sentence of 50 years to life in prison.

00:04:13

 

00:04:18

Mary Beck Interview.

SUPER. Mary Beck

Clinical Professor of Law, University of Missouri

MARY BECK: There was a period of time in Missouri law, when abuse victims could not enter evidence of abuse in trials. And so their sentences were made without knowledge of the judge or the jury that they had been abused persons. And that created these incredibly harsh sentences that no longer even exist.

00:04:25

Showing snippets of newspapers and documents.

COLLEEN COBLE: In 1987 Missouri was the first state to pass a state law that established The Battered Spouse Syndrome. It was a new opportunity for women to at least get information before the court on the level of abuse they had suffered.

00:04:48

Colleen Coble Interview

SUPER. Colleen Coble

CEO, Missouri Coalition Against Sexual and Domestic Violence

All of that information was previously not allowed at trial.

They were told by their attorneys not to bring up the abuse that they had suffered because that would be seen as motive.

00:05:02

 

 

Amy Lorenz-Moser walking in house.

SUPER. Amy Lorenz-Moser

Attorney

 

 

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Anyone else like a Pop-Tart?

 

Breakfast of champions.

00:05:15

 

00:05:19

 

00:05:25

 

When I was in law school I was approached by my professor, Mary Beck, about doing a clemency petition on behalf of a victim of domestic violence who killed their abuser. And Mary Beck just took us out to the prison to meet her.

I think that when you work with somebody in prison, when you’re just kinda starting out, it kinda changes your perception and your perspective.

00:05:31

Amy walks towards car

It made me realize that more could be done for other woman.

00:06:00

Shows Court House. Cuts to Mary Becks office

MARY BECK: In ’98, the Missouri Coalition Against Domestic Violence contacted all four Law Schools and asked us if we would band together. And we reviewed a number of cases and selected initially twelve women. Ultimately the group of us called ourselves The Missouri Battered Women’s Clemency Coalition, and opted to go forward with eleven of the twelve petitions. 

00:06:08

 

JANE AIKEN: What we decided was … we would represent Women who were convicted of murder, who were involved in their crime.

00:06:33

Brendan Roediger interview

SUPER. Brendan Roediger

Attorney, Original Battered Women's Clemency Coalition Member

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: We looked specifically for women who had a documented history of domestic violence that should have been or could have been presented at the … to the trial court and was not.

 

00:06:40

SUPER. In 2000, each of the women represented by the coalition videotaped her story as part of a clemency petition for the governor.

00:06:51

Shows videos of Women represented by the coalition

ESTHER SCAGGS: Hi my name is Esther Scaggs, and I’m here on voluntary man slaughter with a fifteen year sentence.

00:07:00

 

RUBY JAMERSON: Ruby Jamerson.

INTERVIEWER: And how long have you been incarcerated, all together?

RUBY JAMERSON: Thirteen and a half years.

 

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: My name is Roberta Carlene Borden. I received life without possibility of parole for fifty years.

 

UNKNOWN PRISONER 1 (WHITE BLONDE): He’d grab me by the hair and just started beating my head on the headboard. Pushed me back down on the bed and that’s when he tied me up.

 

UNKNOWN PRISONER 2 (BLACK): He said “If you ever hurt me you better kill me ‘cause I’m comin.” And I was like “Oh my God, I’ve hurt him, I’ve hurt him. What do I do?”

 

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Blacked both my eyes and … bloodied my nose.

INTERVIEWER: How often did this abuse occur?

ROBERTA CARLEEN BORDEN: (sigh) ‘Bout every other day.

 

INTERVIEWER: Is there anything else that you would like to tell the Governor, this is your chance to get it on tape.

SHIRLEY LUTE: Well I certainly hope that he would um take me into consideration to go out on Clemency. I don’t think I would have much trouble in the transition part because … I don’t drink, I don’t use drugs. I can make it.

 

00:07:04

 

 

 

 

00:07:09

 

 

 

00:07:17

 

 

 

00:07:25

 

 

00:07:33

 

 

 

 

 

00:07:44

Showing documents

COLLEEN COBLE: In 2004 Governor Bob Holden granted Clemency to two of the women in the Clemency group. And in an only in Missouri scenario. The Missouri Board of Probation and Parole didn’t release the women.

00:08:09

 

JANE AIKEN: And the Supreme Court of Missouri said, “You have to release her because she’s been granted Clemency.”

 

COLLEEN COBLE: So in May 2007, two years after the granting of Clemency, Shirley Lute left prison.

00:08:24

 

 

00:08:30

Shows Shirley Lute leaving

SUPER. 2007

MALE BROADCASTER: Shirley Lute served twenty nine years in prison after a jury convicted her of hiring her son to kill her abusive husband. The courts freed Lou saying she had Battered Wife Syndrome, something the courts did not recognize in the late 70’s.

 

SHIRLEY LUTE: Oh yeah. BLT’s and steak and all of that.

INTERVIEWER: You’re gonna get a lot of that now.

SHIRLEY LUTE: Well, I gotta watch my figure, you know. (laughs)

MALE BROADCASTER: Lute told me it’s wonderful to be free.

00:08:37

SUPER. Two years later

Jefferson City, Missouri

Shows Robert L Hyder Apartments. Jefferson City, Missouri

(background conversation)

00:09:09

Shirley shows us round her apartment

SHIRLEY LUTE: This is Toby. My biggest bear, its one I’ve had for a long, long time. And this is Francis. This is Muskins, ‘course he’s gonna make a sound. I have never been around stuffed animals that made noise. And uh you know sing songs and all that I had never seen that before. They fascinate me. Something I’d never seen before. It’s a well lived in place, with all these dolls and everything but, I kinda like ‘em.

00:09:28

Photos. Shirley and Melvin

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Back to Shirley at the apartment

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: Shirley was a good candidate for Clemency because of how excessive her sentence was. She was the longest serving woman in Missouri. She was sentenced before there was any recognition of Battered Women Syndrome or the effects of domestic violence generally.

 

JANE AIKEN: From the age of four her father sold her for wine. And she went from finally escaping when she was a teenager, and married someone who then ended up beating her. And her son killed him. And she was convicted of being an accomplice to the murder of Melvin Lute.

She’s still negotiating being in the world. Initially, all she wanted to do was to sort of stay in her room, and she asked permission to leave the room. She did things that were consistent with somebody who’s been institutionalized.

00:10:03

 

 

 

 

00:10:20

 

 

 

00:10:40

Showing Shirley with Old man

SHIRLEY LUTE: Where’d you meet me at?

FRANCIS: I met her at Oak Towers I was … lost my wife two and half years ago. And I run on to her at Oak Towers and I’ve been goin with her ever since.

SHIRLEY LUTE: He’s my fiancé. Yeah that’s what he is, he’s my sweetheart. (Laughs)

00:10:55

Showing old photographs

I tried to leave Mel. I had everything packed up ready to go. The kids and all, and Melvin came home and caught me he said “You ain’t goin anywheres.”

00:11:12

Shirley Lute interview

And he took me and he locked me in a basement. And he left me there for five days no food, no water, no way out. He said “you’re not goinanywheres.” I was the one that was being tortured. You know, why should I have to go to prison for being tortured by somebody. You know but, I missed my whole life you might as well say.

00:11:23

SUPER. Shirley was one of two women in the coalition who received clemency from the governor.

The other 9 were denied.

00:11:52

Exterior shots. Cuts to Jane Aiken

JANE AIKEN: Those people who have life without parole have to be given Clemency by a Governor. In other words, their sentence has to be commuted to something that will allow them to see the parole board or will allow them to be released.

00:12:05

Picture of Governor Matt Blunt shown.

WOMAN BROADCASTER: Governor Matt Blunt signed a law providing the opportunity for parole for battered women convicted of murder.

 

NEWSCASTER: The 2007 law allows parole for people sentenced to life in prison if they had been victims of abuse.

00:12:23

 

 

00:12:30

Street footage

We all received hearings on the same day … and uh we all went one after the other and focussed

00:12:36

Interview

on the domestic violence, ‘cause I wanted to make sure that they heard it from her perspective. Not just read it, but heard it.

00:12:43

Street footage

The hearing was probably twenty minutes, and then we waited for six months.

00:12:50

Street footage

MALE NEWSCASTER: The board has denied parole to three women,

00:12:56

Newcast

who claim they were driven to murder their husbands by lives filled with domestic abuse. An attorney for two of the women says the board’s latest decision will be appealed. 

00:12:59

 

PATRCIA HARRISON: It was one line. “It would not be in society’s best interest to release the inmate at this time”.

00:13:11

Patricia Harrison interview

Nothing.

00:13:18

SUPER. Ten years since the Clemency Coalition was founded,

3 of the 11 women originally represented by the coalition remain incarcerated.

00:13:23

Driving shot SUPER. Vandalia, Missouri

00:13:33

Exterior shots of WECC

SUPER. Women’s Eastern Correction Center

 

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Hi Carlene.

MARY BECK: Hey Carlene.

ROBERTA CARLENE WARDEN: Hi.

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: How are you?

00:13:44

Amy meets Roberta inside

SUPER. Carlene

Sentenced in 1978

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cuts between old photographs

ROBERTA CARLENE WARDEN: Fine, how are you?

MARY BECK: What’s goin on? I hear you got a new dog.

ROBERTA CARLENE MOSEN: I got a new dog this …  today and, I’m gonna do the basic training on her for her to be adopted to make her a better pet.

I would be eighty two years old before I would go see the parole board.  And I came in when I was thirty three years old I came in.

 

I met my husband many years ago when we was young. We was raised up together, so I was fourteen years old when I got married. I was still a child. I was married about two years before the abuse started. Then it dismantled. I was fat, I was ugly, you’re a whore like your mother, and I guess at first I thought that’s the way marriage was supposed to be. 

I would come home from work, and he’d be waiting for me. And I’d fix him something to eat well that wasn’t good enough and he’d hit me and throw that on the floor.

Our daughter, she had major back surgery. And she was in a body cast. Well, she didn’t get up off of the van fast enough for him, he whipped her with a belt.

00:13:51

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:14:12

 

 

 

 

00:14:41

 

 

00:14:53

Tresea Clinton Interview.

SUPER. Tresea Clinton

Carlene's daughter

 

Cuts between old photos

TRESEA CLINTON: Life there was just was not good. It was like bein’ in prison. We did our best to protect each other, cause we knew that if one of us didn’t cover our backs, we paid for it.

 

ROBERTA CARLENE WARDEN: I can’t even explain how down he had me.

00:15:04

 

 

 

00:15:19

Carlene Interview

I didn’t even know who I was.

00:15:24

SUPER. Carlene was convicted of 1st degree murder in 1978 for the hired killing of Delbert Borden.

She was not allowed to mention the abuse at trial, and received a sentence of 50 years to life in prison.

00:15:27

Women’s Eastern Correction Center

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: I wanted to show you the letter that your Great Grandson wrote to me, And it says: “Dear guy who sets women free, Hi I’m Lance Smith, and I’m Carlene’s great grandson and she’s been in there long enough.”

 

ROBERTA CARLENE WARDEN: “She has been in there my mom whole life and my whole life. She needs to see more of … of the outside world. She needs to get out so she can live the rest of her life with her family she hardly knows. Sincerely, Lance.” He drives these officers crazy.(all laugh)

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: How many grandkids do you have now?

ROBERTA CARLENE WARDEN: I’ve got seven grandkids and nine great grandkids. I’ve raised ‘em in the visiting area.

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Just hang in there.

ROBERTA CARLENE WARDEN: I’m trying but some days it’s awfully hard.

00:15:38

Jane Aiken

JANE AIKEN: When you kill somebody, you have to pay a price. On the other hand, the sentences these people got were way disproportionate to their … um, culpability.

00:16:38

Amy Lorenz-Moser at home

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: The board did not correctly follow the statute, and so we filed a writ against them. To force them to give them new hearings and hopefully come to what we believe is the right decision which is that they’ve served enough time and they’re no danger to society.

00:16:50

Patricia Harrison reading

SUPER. Voice of Charlie Brennan

Radio Host

CHARLIE BRENNAN: The one thing about coming back thirty years later, is that the guy is not there to present his side of the story. Is it possible that the women change their story, because if you can claim abuse years later that’s one way to beat your charge of being sentenced to life without parole.

00:17:12

Documents shown

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: You know when you’re dealing with a case that’s thirty years old, where evidence wasn’t developed because it wasn’t admissible. In many of these cases there aren’t any records of it because these women aren’t permitted to get medical treatment.

 

MARY BECK: Carlene’s mother saw bruises on her all the time. But because Carlene’s husband was a police officer, he wouldn’t let her complain to the police because those were his colleagues. So there were no police records. And the prosecutor’s office in Springfield seemed to believe that that meant there had never been any abuse.

 

PATRICIA HARRISON: This was in a period of time where Battered Women Syndrome had just been passed and I don’t think lawyers really knew what to do with it. Because they were afraid that the jurors would not understand it and would blame the victim.

00:17:22

 

 

 

 

 

00:17:35

 

 

 

 

00:17:53

SUPER. Voice of S. Louis County Prosecutor

Bob McCullough

BOB McCULLOUGH: Both of these women, at the time, said that “I was never abused by my husband.”

CHARLIE BRENNAN: So, thirty years ago they were given the opportunity to present evidence of abuse, but uh, they denied that they were abused.”

BOB McCULLOUGH: Absolutely.

00:18:06

Exterior shot of Park. Cut to Amy Lorenz-Moser

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: If you’re gonna claim Battered Spouse Syndrome you have to admit you did that killing. And so it’s a pretty big risk. Cause you’re relying on the jury to give you an out. But because it wasn’t in the heat of battle, some jurors aren’t gonna do it.

00:18:22

Ruby Jamerson Interview

RUBY JAMERSON: I wanna go back out there and be … somebody. Be the person that I was. You know before all this happened. Because this, this just isn’t a life … in here.

00:18:36

SUPER. Ruby was convicted of hiring her son, Donyae, to kill her husband Horace.

She was sentenced to life without parole. Donyae served 20 years before being released.

00:18:49

Driving shot. SUPER. North St. Louis, Missouri

 

00:19:00

Exterior shot of Donyae’s house.

DONYAE: I think that a real man should never put his hands on a woman real men don’t do that. But to grow up seein’ totally the opposite,

 

00:19:07

Donyae interview. SUPER. Donyae

Ruby's youngest son

me I’ve always been … uh, a fighter. So I always did fight back.

00:19:16

Photos. Jamerson family

Seein her being left face down in the snow, with fractured ribs. Back then the police came and they left because ya’ll married and that’s in ya’ll household and that’s where we gonna leave that at.

00:19:22

Back to interview

I know it was wrong that a person lost their life. But at the same token, when do the cycle ever stop?

00:19:39

Ruby Jamerson interview in prison

PATRICIA HARRISON: How old was he though when you saw him the last time?

 

RUBY JAMERSON: Sixteen.

 

PATRICIA HARRISON: So you’re still seeing that sixteen year old boy. When you talk to him on the phone.

 

RUBY JAMERSON: Yeah, when he sixteen he’s a baby so.

 

PATRICIA HARRISON: Of course, yeah.

 

RUBY JAMERSON: You know, mama’s baby.

00:19:48

Interview interspersed with newspaper articles

I guess, if I had of just thought everything through, you know. And took my son away from the house, it wouldn’t of happened.

 

Anybody can make the wrong decision in a split second. But when you get bashed upside your head, and knocked down and beat with, you know wooden coat hangers and stuff you don’t think. You can’t think.

 

I guess what I should’ve did was pack my bags and leave. But sometimes you just feel like you’re tired of runnin’.

00:20:11

 

 

 

00:20:24

 

 

 

00:20:44

Colleen Coble Interview  cut with footage of Shirley Lute in her apartment 

COLLEEN COBLE: The first question that most people wanna ask is, “Why didn’t she leave?” And that’s the wrong question. We wanna know what’s wrong with her. When the question is, “Why is he still beating her?” You think she’s a lousy wife, you don’t like her cooking, you think she doesn’t do a good job around the house, you don’t like the work she does for pay, why in God’s name don’t you leave?

 

And we … we don’t ask that question. We turn it all around to, “Well, why doesn’t she do something?” The person who is being threatened, the person who has been told, “I’ll make sure you don’t leave”, we put the entire burden on her. Instead of the one who’s committing the crime.

00:20:54

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:21:26

Patricia Harrison

PATRICIA HARRISON: When the woman kills, when the woman doesn’t leave, there’s outrage to that. And it’s because we don’t understand domestic violence.

00:21:47

Exterior Shot. SUPER. April 2009

BROADCASTER: Cole County Judge Richard Callahan said the parole board must reconsider its earlier denial in the cases of Carlene Borden and Ruby Jamerson.

00:21:55

Newscast

That order stemmed from a law passed two years ago that said parole hearings must consider the claims of battered wives.

00:22:06

Patricia Harrison with Ruby Jamerson

 

 

 

 

 

PATRICIA HARRISON: They look at your history of criminal involvement. You have none. Abusive drugs or alcohol, no. Need for institutional substance abuse or a sex offender program, no doesn’t apply to you. And then lack of a good faith effort toward getting your GED, well you came in here with a degree. And then the judge says, the board shall not consider the seriousness of the events. That’s what makes this new hearing pretty different because in the past, what were all the questions they asked us about? The seriousness of the events,

00:22:12

Snippets of newspaper shown. Cuts to Amy Lorenz-Moser driving.

CHARLIE BRENNAN: Amy Lorenz-Moser is attorney for Vicky Williams and Carlene Borden she joins us right now on KMOX. Now, uh you insisted these women were beaten although some of their relatives disagree and, don’t you agree if you kill someone you should pay a very harsh consequence.

 

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Well let’s go back to Ms. Borden’s case. Her husband was a police officer, she attempted to leave her husband on multiple occasions. He hired a private investigator, threatened her children until she came back.

 

CHARLIE BRENNAN: So in other words if you think the police won’t listen to you take the matters into your own hands?

 

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: That’s not true. I don’t think that what these women were convicted of doing is a correct course of action. However, each of them have been in jail for over thirty two years each, they did not receive a slap on the wrist for this.

00:22:43

Old Photos of Carlene

 

 

 

 

 

Carlene interview

 

Tresea Clinton Interview

 

Carlene interview

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Carlene, unlike a lot of these women in these cases, is actually somebody who tried to leave. She ended up living with a boyfriend.

 

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: I think it was first part of February when Don found us. On February 27th, that night I fixed dinner and we watched Family Feud. I got up and went to the bathroom, and when I came back there was Don in front of Delbert with a gun.

 

TRESEA CLINTON: Me and my brother heard a loud crash, like something had fell.

 

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Delbert he looked at me and he says uh ... “Carlene call the ambulance cause Don just shot me.”

00:23:32

 

 

 

00:23:45

 

 

 

00:24:08

 

 

00:24:12

SUPER. Donald Pilkerton received a shortened sentence in return for testimony against Carlene.

A decade later, he recanted his original statement, taking full responsibility for the shooting.

00:24:25

Newspaper article. Cuts to Carlene interview

My trial lasted for two and a half days. The jurors didn’t wanna stay up in a motel because it was labor day weekend. So they sentenced me life to fifty. There on Friday night.

00:24:35

Photo of Carlene

MARY BECK: Carlene didn’t have enough money to hire her own council so the court appointed attorneys to represent her. The court appointed her husband’s attorney to represent her in

00:24:48

Mary Beck interview

the murder trial of her husband. That’s a conflict of interest there’s no way around it.

00:24:59

SUPER. On July 15, 2009, the parole board issues new rulings for Carlene and Ruby.

00:25:03

News footage

MALE NEWSCASTER: Three Missouri women serving time for murdering their husbands will not be let out on parole even though they claim they were abused by their spouses, and that led to the killings.

 

FEMALE NEWSCASTER: The Missouri Board of Parole denied parole for Carlene Borden and Ruby Jamerson.

 

MALE NEWSCASTER: The three won’t be eligible for another hearing for three years, unless this ruling’s overturned.

00:25:05

 

 

 

00:25:14

 

 

00:25:19

 

Inside prison

RUBY JAMERSON: Hi.

 

PATRICIA HARRISON: Oh boy.

 

RUBY JAMERSON: Yeah.

 

PATRICIA HARRISON: So you got this on Friday.

 

RUBY JAMERSON: Yeah.

 

PATRICIA HARRISON: Ok, And it’s my understanding that the decisions that they gave are similar for Carlene too did you see hers? Exactly the same

 

RUBY JAMERSON: Exact same words.

 

PATRICIA HARRISON: So they’re exactly the same. Because it’s a farce. And they’re not following the law, and they did exactly what they did last year.

00:25:25

SUPER. The parole board and the Department of Corrections refused to comment or appaear on camera.

PAROLE BOARD: I appreciate your extending the opportunity to interview but we’re gonna have to decline that.

00:25:55

Inside Prison

 

 

RUBY JAMERSON: Every year you say oh another year that went past and we still fighting. Another year I never thought it would been ten years you know and you still you know the same people still working with you and fightin’ for you and....

00:26:04

Newspaper articles

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: I think the Parole Board is looking for the perfect victim, and I think the problem is that they will never find it. A lot of these women suffer from the fact that they don’t fit our image of domestic violence.

00:26:17

Brendan Roediger Interview

That image is of women who are submissive at all times. Often white. If they don’t fit that image if they’ve ever fought back a lot of folks stop believing that they’re victims.

00:26:29

Documents

 

 

 

 

Patricia harrison

PATRICIA HARRISON: We’re not allowed by law to see any of the information that they have. The institutional parole officer writes a report and then makes a recommendation to the board, we’re not allowed to see that. It’s just, unlike anything I’ve ever experienced as a lawyer. You just feel completely in the dark.

We’re not exactly sure what were gonna do yet. We need to review the judge’s order, and then we need to decide how to best proceed.

00:26:47

 

 

 

 

00:27:07

Women’s Eastern Correction Center

TANYA MITCHELL: My name is Tanya Mitchell and um … Cut. I don’t know. (laughs)

00:27:21

Old Photo

(phone rings)

OPERATOR: 911

 WOMAN: My neighbor’s just come in here screaming ‘help me’ and she says she shot her husband.

OPERATOR: By accident or on purpose or what?

WOMAN: I don’t know sir.

TANYA: Don’t let him get me.

WOMAN: He won’t getcha go in there honey.

OPERATOR: Now Tanya…

TANYA: Uh huh (sobbing)

OPERATOR: Why did you shoot him with a gun?

TANYA: I don’t know. He said that he was gonna kill me.

OPERATOR: He said he was gonna kill you?

TANYA: No, I know he’s gonna kill me.

00:27:28

SUPER. Tanya was charged with second degree murder in 2002.

Her attorneys feared that a Battered Woman's Syndrome defense would not be enough to acquit at trial.

She pleaded guilty to voluntary manslaughter and received the maximum allowable sentence, 15 years.

00:27:56

Photos of Tanya and Jimmy

TANYA MITCHELL: Jimmy was only like 5’ 9”. But when you would meet him and have any type of interaction with him you would think he was like six foot something and huge, just his persona that he had. He did all kinds of little things for me that just was really impressive and he was romantic and very intelligent. You know one time we was out at a rest area on a run and he picked the big roses right in the middle of bring em over and hand em to me. Gestures like that was just I thought was just awesome.But as time progressed, our relationship just got worse and worse.

 

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: He was involved in a motorcycle club. She became the property of that motorcycle club.

 

TANYA MITCHELL: Couldn’t walk, been beat with a bat. Bruises on my forehead from playing Russian Roulette. Taking the gun and jamming my forehead with it. Puttin’ a bullet in, spinnin it pullin the trigger. Grabbed a pair of pliers had the pliers around my toe trying to pull my toes and toenails off. He pretty much told me that we were gonna get married at gun point. I was ready to get out of the relationship, but he wasn’t gonna let me go at this point. He said if um, if he couldn’t have me nobody could have me and he meant it.

00:28:11

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:28:50

 

 

00:28:55

Old Wedding Photo

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: The abuse escalated to sort of monstrous proportions it’s a hard case to even talk about. It’s more of a case of domestic terrorism.

00:29:34

Cherlyn Interview. SUPER. Cherlyn

Tanya's cousin and legal aid

CHERLYN: They would go on ….  on these motorcycle runs and he would allow her to be gang raped by members of the motor cycle gang. I mean telling her that she enjoyed it, he would beat her because she allowed it to happen even though she had no choice.

00:29:42

Photo of Tanya and Jimmy

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: Her family encouraged her to leave the situation. I think everyone was stumped on how to do it.

00:30:00

Driving shots. Cuts to Brendan Roediger interview

 

 

Gruesome abuse photos

 

 

 

 

 

cuts to Tanya Mitchell interview

 

In Tanya Mitchell’s case in particular there were very graphic photographs taken by co-workers. Co-workers that were concerned that ultimately she would be killed and there’d be no evidence that it was her husband who had killed her.

 

They took her to a building, took pictures of bruises all over her body, and stored those photographs.

 

TANYA MITCHELL: For the last ten months before the shooting, he would tell me every day that “it was my lucky day and he was gonna let me live” and the day of the shooting he’d come in to the bedroom and got me …

 and wanted some breakfast uh … and I didn’t have none ready. He said, “it wasn’t my lucky day”, and that his big decision was how he was going to kill me. And from that point on, fear was just instilled in me and… I snapped sometime that evening.

00:30:07

 

 

 

 

00:30:22

 

 

00:30:30

 

00:30:42

Driving shots

OPERATOR: 911

JIMMY: My wife shot me.

OPERATOR: You’re wife shot you?

JIMMY: Yeah.

OPERATOR: When did she shoot you?

JIMMY: I don’t know I was sound asleep.

OPERATOR: You was asleep?

JIMMY: Yes.

OPERATOR: She just came in and shot you?

JIMMY: Yes. I don’t know what came over her. Oh god, oh. Oh I’m dyin.

00:31:06

Patricia Harrison Interview. Cuts to newspaper articles and old photos

 

 

 

 

 

Brendan Roediger Interview

PATRICIA HARRISON: The law is written in such a way that it is very difficult to use as an affirmative defense to be proven not guilty. Battered Woman Syndrome requires you to prove self-defense. You have to prove that there was an immediate threat or physical injury that you would have to kill or you would be killed. And a lot of times that’s not how these things happen.

 

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: These sorts of questions about when she can pull the trigger and when she can’t,

I think that’s sorta silly. I think she was gonna die that day … the reason she didn’t die that day is because she pulled the trigger.

00:31:30

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:31:54

SUPER. Tanya's case does not meet the criteria of the 2007 statute, and she is not represented by the Clemency Coalition

Her family is currently preparing for her next parole hearing.

00:32:03

Exterior shots of a house.

GLORIA: We’ve done the parole board twice. Once with Washington U, and then share in 2008. For 2010, we’re not going to go through all the trouble with a brief and doing petitions and letters, because they’re not readin’ it. If they would’ve read the 208 one there’s no way that they would’ve came up with an answer that she may go out and do the same crime again.

PHYLLIS: What if we do like we did before and we send uh … get those addresses for up at Jeff’s city and we just start emailin’ constantly.

GLORIA: I’m tellin you I have no faith in the Parole Board.

00:32:14

Tanya in prison

TANYA MITCHELL: This is my answer to the uh … my last Parole Board hearing. “This does not appear to be a reasonable probability at this time that the offender,” that’d be me, “would live and remain at liberty without again violating the law based on circumstances surrounding the present events.” So they think I’m gonna go out and do this again or somethin’ I don’t know.

00:32:57

SUPER. May 2010.

Cuts to Amy Lorenz-Moser interview

 

 

Amy gets reasy for parole hearings

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amy interview

 

 

 

 

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: We filed another writ against the Parole Board and that’s basically a law suit that says, “You’ve exceeded your authority, you don’t have the authority to do this. And you need to take that decision and throw it out.

 

 

WOMAN: So Amy, are you getting ready to practice your argument?

 

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: I am.

 

There are several points of error that we’ve said the Parole Board made. This statute specifically set forth a requirement that they provide a report detailing the reasons that they were denying parole or granting parole. They literally provided two sentences of decision for each of these women after over a year of consideration of their cases overall.

 

At this point I really don’t have a feel for where she’s goin’. You know both sides made good arguments so we’ll just see what she decides.

00:33:28

 

 

 

 

00:33:40

 

 

 

00:33:46

 

 

 

00:34:00

 

 

00:34:07

Women’s Eastern Correction Center

PATRICIA HARRISON: We filed our new writ. This is a new judge, she doesn’t know anything about our case. I don’t think she’s real familiar with the statute it’s very new it only applies you know to a small group of women.

RUBY JAMERSON: Three people.

PATRICIA HARRISON: Exactly so … so I don’t know I have a lot of answers today.

RUBY JAMERSON: Well that’s okay.

PATRICIA HARRISON: Yeah.

00:34:16

SUPER. Judge Patricia Joyce rules that the parole board overstepped their authority.

She awards Ruby and Carlene new hearings.

00:34:33

Inside prison

MARY BECK: I will be seeing you on the 27th, at 8 o’clock, and we’ll plan and be ready. Ok?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Ok.

MARY BECK: Hang in.

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: I will. I’m going to. I’m going to.

00:34:40

 

RUBY JAMERSON: I just feel like as I say there’s a light at the end of the tunnel we got more, another light just you know open, shown for us. And to me I feel like it’s even brighter this time. So…. You can’t … beat yourself down you know because you know at first you feel like, “oh I failed again.” But, I don’t feel that way this time.

00:34:52

SUPER. September 15, 2010

00:35:19

Newscasts

MALE NEWSCASTER: Today 3 Missouri women convicted of murdering their husbands decades ago, have been granted parole.

FEMALE NEWSCASTER: Williams and Borden will be released from prison October 15th, Ruby Jamerson will be release later in 2013. They are the only remaining inmates eligible for parole under the 2007 statute.

00:35:23

 

 

00:35:29

Women’s Eastern Correction Center

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cuts to Teresa Clinton interview

RUBY JAMERSON:  I mean she laid the paper down and it was like, I jumped up out of the seat. I’m not goin’ home for two more years … but, it is a date. And I’m happy about that.

 

TANYA MITCHELL: We had a good day in here Monday there was tears flowin like crazy. And Carlene’s gonna be two days short of thirty two years. She was just in shock.

 

TRESEA CLINTON: When they said released … I kinda think I zoned her out for a minute. And then when she told me a third time that yes she was released, then I hung up and I just started ballin. I, couldn’t believe this. It was good news. Best day of my life.

00:35:40

 

 

 

00:35:53

 

 

 

00:36:03

Carlene in a car leaving Women’s Eastern Correction Center

Won’t have to see that place again. No. No way.

 

Wow I’m just thinkin’ it feels good ridin’ in a car without no handcuffs on. My gosh. Or shackles hanging between my legs.

00:36:23

 

00:36:33

 

 

Cuts to Brendan Roediger intreview

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: The parole board absolutely believes that these woman are learning life skills in prison.

I don’t know if, you know, when they go home at night they still believe that but, I believe that a lot of them needed a lot of help. That they needed counseling, that they needed resources that they needed a hundred things but, they didn’t need prison. Not, not a single one.

00:36:45

 

00:36:50

Everyone seated in a restaurant

MARY BECK: You get to wear your ring now.

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Yeah, my ring and my earrings and… I’ve had this ring thirty two years.

MARY BECK: Is that from you?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Yup. She got it when I got locked up.

WOMAN: It just don’t seem real.

WOMAN: Are we all ready to order?

WAITRESS: I, wherever whoever wants to start.

CREW?: Right here.

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: We’re gonna get this over the top.

WAITRESS: Ok. And how do you want your eggs done?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Over easy.

WAITRESS: Ok, bacon or sausage?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Bacon. Bacon.

WAITRESS: White toast, wheat toast?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Wheat.

WAITRESS: Ok.

(Laughing, conversation).

MAN: Push it.

TRESEA CLINTON: No just, yeah. Push that down. Oh this is going to be so much fun. (laughs)

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Oh real pancakes. Nothing like … prison pancakes.

00:37:05

Tanya in prison

 

 

 

Cuts to photo of Tanya and Jimmy

INTERVIEWER: Would you ever want to be in a relationship again?

TANYA MITCHELL: At this point no. It’s not worth the … risk. The hurt, the pain. It’s still too fresh. And I’m still in love with Jimmy

INTERVIEWER: And do you miss him?

TANYA MITCHELL: Yeah

INTERVIEWER: How much do you think about him?

TANYA MITCHELL: (crying) Been holdin’ my breath for a long time. I miss him a whole lot. I miss him a whole lot.

00:38:15

 

 

 

00:38:32

 

 

00:38:59

Cherlyn’s office. SUPER. Cherlyn

Tanya's cousin and legal aid

Cuts to old photos of Tanya

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cuts to Tanya in prison

CHERLYN: When I was developing this book for her last parole hearing, and going through boxes and boxes of pictures this is one that just really kind of got to me. Uh, this picture was taken three days after Tanya and Jim got married in Vegas. She comes back for her … wedding shower and she has two black eyes. And in a room full of about thirty women, not one person said a thing to her, including us. While we were playing games and, everything that you would do at a bridal shower. It just disgusted me the fact that, that’s what everyone’s approach was. Instead of someone saying, you know, “Can you get an annulment? Can you run away?” You know, everybody just kinda brushed it off like it was nothing. How horrible to have to live a life like that, and have everybody around you not say a word about it. Until it was too late.

 

TANYA MITCHELL: People just don’t understand the fear that women go through with an abuser. The fear is so real, and you have reason to fear. But for some reason

if it’s your husband, they just don’t think it’s that big a deal. But if it would be a stranger or a serial killer or something, then that would be like, “oh we gotta do something about this.” I think most people that feel that fear … they’re not around to tell you about it. They’re not, they’re dead.

00:39:18

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:40:21

 

 

00:40:34

Photo album of Tanya

BRENDAN ROEDIGER: I certainly worry about her, I … I certainly believe that her husband still has friends that are … a danger to her.

00:40:57

Cherlyn with Tanya’s family in meeting room.

CHERLYN: She’s starting to get a little nervous about and … they’re still threatening her. So she’s kinda freakin’ out about that.

TERESA: So you think she should said in front of the parole board she’s scared for her safety and her, family’s safety? That’s what you’re kinda thinkin?

CHERLYN: I mean, I think it’s a validation of her feelings to say that she’s scared.

PHYLLIS: Yeah, cause she is. You know if they wanted to do anything to us … or if they wanted to do anything to you, they know where all of us are.

CHERLYN: Right. But on the other hand the purpose of the parole board and what they’re trying to do is see if she has overcome what happened to her. So, if she can’t answer those questions, then to them it’s always gonna look like she’s not ready. So we need to figure out how we can get her past that, and help her get home.

 

00:41:03

Party for Carlene

 

 

 

 

SUPER. Lance

Carlene's great-grandson

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: (laughing) It’s been a long time since I’ve seen you Ray.

RAY: Nah no it’s not, no it’s not.

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: She was 18 months old. My girl. 

LANCE: My letter got you out.

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Sure did honey.

LANCE: I guess it was all because uh, me and my letter that … well you’re here.

00:41:48

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Footage of Carlene around the house

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: I woke up this morning and didn’t have a back ache for the first time. So it was just like, sleeping on water. (laughs)

 

Oh, it feels great to be here on this … deck. I dreamed about this since my son had it built long in the summer.

 

I’ve been locked up for so long and I really don’t know how I’m gonna feel being in a house in a home. Cause I don’t know what I’m gonna be doing I don’t know how I’m gonna act.

 

I don’t even know where to start.

 

I feel like … I really don’t belong. Because, I don’t know what to do. I wanna sit down and just cry because I feel … kinda lost.

00:42:12

 

 

00:42:24

 

 

00:42:32

 

 

 

00:42:51

 

00:43:01

SUPER. The morning of Tanya's parole hearing

00:43:15

Gloria’s house

GLORIA: Hello?

TERESA: I’m getting ready to leave.

GLORIA: Alright, bye.

TERESA: Ok, see ya.

 

00:43:25

Gloria in car

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Teresa reads magazine

 

TANYA: Hi mom I just called to tell you I love you.

GLORIA: I love you too and I’m on my way up there. See ya in a little bit even though I can’t tell you anything to ya.

TERESA: I love you sissy good luck.

TANYA: Aw, I love you guys.

GLORIA: Alright. Alright.

TANYA: Alright. Bye bye.

GLORIA: Bye bye.

 

TERESA: She’s only allowed to take one person in so, she wants her momma there. (laughs)  

00:43:43

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:44:16

SUPER. Two hours later - Gloria meeting with Phyllis

PHYLLIS: Did she do good?

GLORIA: Oh she ended up breakin’ down. She came in teary eyed.  Yep.

PHYLLIS: How come she was doin’ so good.

GLORIA:  I don’t know what happened.

PHYLLIS: When he said, “do you have anything else to say”, she didn’t say the things like … what her plans were and that she was gonna

GLORIA: Yup.

PHYLLIS: So she lost all of that when she got upset.

GLORIA: She just lost it.

He said, “is there a reason why you think that you should be let out of here sooner?” And she turned around and she told why she was cryin and she said, “sometimes I feel like I shouldn’t be let out sooner.” You know.

TANYA MITCHELL: I’m sorry I did such a bad job.

GLORIA: You didn’t, you didn’t do real bad but, you could’ve done better. You didn’t do real bad, you know.

TANYA MITCHELL: Yes I did, I did horrible.

GLORIA: I know.

TANYA MITCHELL: They were just so cut and dry.

GLORIA: I know. Hey settle yourself down you did what you could. You know, no matter what we’ll just have to wait and see what’s gonna happen ok?

00:44:29

Gloria getting in car.

 

 

 

 

Cuts to Amy interview

 

Cuts to Gloria at home

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: They did a study in the state of Missouri about the disproportionality of the sentences that women who killed their spouses receive versus men. There were vastly more men in prison for killing their spouses,

 

none of them had the most severe penalty that you could get. Of the

 

women that were in jail for killing their spouses, there were many that had the most severe sentence that you could get.

00:45:32

 

 

 

 

00:45:48

 

00:45:52

Gloria’s house

GLORIA: Ok, I’m ready. Collect call from Tanya.

TANYA MITCHELL: I went back up a few minutes ago and got my answer from the pro board.

GLORIA: Yeah?

TANYA MITCHELL: Are you Ready?

GLORIA: Yeah.

TANYA MITCHELL: I got a date.

GLORIA: You got a date? When?

TANYA MITCHELL: It’s January 21st, 2015.

GLORIA: Huh? 2015?

TANYA MITCHELL: I know mama, but at least it’s a date.

GLORIA: My god that’s four years away yet. Five almost.

TANYA MITCHELL: It’s only like, a little over four years. Four years and ten months.

GLORIA: That’s your date to get out anyway right?

TANYA MITCHELL: Right yeah. That’s my conditional release date.

GLORIA: (sighs)

 

I just wanted to tell ya she got her answer ... and it’s not a good one. January 21st 2015

WOMAN ON PHONE: What is goin on?

GLORIA: I don’t know.

00:46:01

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:46:47

Carlene walks up the drive

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Carlene on rocking chair on deck

TRESEA CLINTON: So how was Wal-Mart?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Oh man it was scary kinda at first. I’m not used to big old stores like that you know.

TRESEA CLINTON: Afraid you’re gonna get lost?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Yeah. Well I’m walking pretty fast kinda like, “well don’t, don’t let people see me.” You know they think, well I’m just a regular person.

It was hard to leave Ruby. Cause I’ve known her for so long and it … and really they’re my family. But still, it was, it was nice leavinem. And one day, their day will be

comin’ too for them to able to come home.

00:47:04

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:47:26

 

00:47:38

Carlene and Tresea walk towards old car

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Carlene on rocking chair

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Sure don’t look like it did when I owned it. Brand new car back when I had it.

TRESEA CLINTON: I took care of it for a lot of years.

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Yeah.

TRESEA CLINTON: It was bought back in seventy…

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Two.

TRESEA CLINTON: Two?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Yep, I bought brand new I picked it out and… and everything. And I kept this sucker clean. Me and the kids drove this many… miles just me and the kids. That’s the one good time it was about it because… he had it, was in it was always fussin’ and fightin’. And if it got a little bit over he’d… gripe at me. Ok let’s…I had enough of the car.

TRESEA CLINTON: You’re good?

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Yeah. I’m good with it.

 

I do not think about Dilbert at all anymore. He don’t own me anymore. So he, he can’t control me anymore.

00:47:41

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:48:32

Amy driving

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: You can’t, really say that you’ve gotten justice for these women until they walk out. It’s important not just to them, but to all of us to see them be out of prison. Seeing the photographs, I don’t see how anybody can look at that…and say no.

00:48:41

Amy approaches Gloria's house

 

 

 

 

Inside Gloria's house

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Amy leaves

GLORIA: Hi.

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Hi, how are you?

GLORIA: Yeah I’m fine. (laughs)

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Good, good, good to see you.

GLORIA: Yeah.

 

Tanya’s medical records and, work records and…

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Now what’s in the bottom here?

GLORIA: Pictures. I guess you’d say crime scene.

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: Oh great. Well now, we’ll uh…we’ll probably retain it through the, representation.

GLORIA: Yeah.

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: And then when we’re done, hopefully with the terrific results, I’ll you know, meet you for a beer.

GLORIA: Yeah. Ok. (laughs)

 

Jim just downgraded her all the time, told her she was fat and ugly and but… if you met him you would say, “oh he’s not so bad.” He’s just one of those types that can hide it like a lot of guys can.

 

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: This case, has a different kind of chance than I thought, because we can prove it. I feel like, she deserves somebody to help her.

00:49:06

 

 

 

 

 

00:49:16

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:49:37

 

 

00:49:51

Women’s Eastern Correction Center

 

(Cuts to Ruby's family at home)

RUBY JAMERSON: You know I just, I just… missed my family.

 

WOMEN: Everybody pig out and go to sleep. (laugh)

 

RUBY JAMERSON: Just to sit down at a table, you know, and talk. And eat, and have fun with the kids and you know.

DONYAE: Hey everybody my momma on the phone. So…

(Ruby’s family say hello to her on the phone)

You gotta see the house, it’s like a… museum up in here. Your house is just different, you have pictures… pictures all around.

MAN: You got a lot of people who love you here.

RUBY JAMERSON: Oh yeah I know. I miss ‘em all too.

RUBY’S FAMILY: We miss you too!

DONYAE: Love you.

RUBY JAMERSON: Bye.

00:50:03

Shirley Lute at home

SHIRLEY LUTE: I never know what I really want. I just followed the other person. I want so much that I don’t know what I really want. Is that hard to understand? That you want so much that you don’t really know what you want? Well that’s me. (laughs) I would like to have a home, it’s a trailer home that’s fine. But I wanna have it where I can have flowers and I have a little dog. It’s quite a… give and take family but we’re it. And we’re all gonna survive it. Do the best we can.

00:50:47

Carlene playing with dogs at home

ROBERTA CARLENE BORDEN: Yeah, we gotta fatten you up boy. We gotta fatten you up. What…yeah. Yeah. Free from the past. No more thinkin’ about that stupid past.

00:51:23

Amy meets Tanya in prison

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cut to Tanya Mitchell interview

 TANYA MITCHELL: Me and Ruby, we sat around that table one day… and um we made up our bucket list. One of the biggest things when you come on a visit is, you just get a brief hug. That’s like one thing I miss the most is my hugs. Eat meat. Bacon you know, some real bacon I just… grease I just want some grease. And sleep through 5 AM count ‘cause everyone’s up every…morning at 5 AM for count. And the stretch limousine pickin’ me up. Here’s all my… family.

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: That’s a good list.

TANYA MITCHELL: That’s just sitting around just thinkin’… silly stuff to write.

AMY LORENZ-MOSER: That’s not silly at all.

TANYA MITCHELL: Sometimes I think, um… that if I forgive myself that, then what I did was ok.

 

I have to learn that forgiveness doesn’t mean what I did was ok. I forgive him for what he’s done, now I have to forgive me for what I’ve done. And that’s the next step.

00:51:44

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

00:52:36

 

 

 

 

Shirley Lute interview footage

SHIRLEY LUTE: I would like to say that, in my younger days I grew up in uh… knowing that the man was the boss.

 

And they could do with you as you please. And um… a lot… a lot of this, you know, reginates from that too.

INTERVIEWER: And you feel different about that now?

SHIRLEY LUTE: Oh yes, definitely. I can take care of Shirley… and I can make it, if given the opportunity to do it. I’m determined.

00:52:53

 

 

00:53:01

 

 

 

 

 

00:53:26

 

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