0002 00:02:03:08 00:02:05:22
OST: Were you a drug dealer? Definitely.
0003 00:02:06:02 00:02:07:14
OST: Yeah, no ...
0004 00:02:07:19 00:02:09:17
OST: Come on. Out... Come.
0005 00:02:09:22 00:02:13:07
The Netherlands is at the center of an international doping trade.
And prosecutors aren't doing anything about it.
0006 00:02:13:12 00:02:16:20
OST: This interview's over?
OST: Yes
0008 00:02:28:00 00:02:31:07
Lance Armstrong has
shocked the world
0009 00:02:31:12 00:02:33:20
but the problem may reach further than you realise
0012 00:02:40:14 00:02:45:03
OST: Check: If air comes out
instead of blood, you are
in the muscle.
0010 00:02:34:00 00:02:37:13
In the netherlands alone
there are 160,000 users
0014 00:02:51:02 00:02:53:17
OST: This together is 270 euros.
0017 00:03:01:05 00:03:05:23
OST: There must be improvements in international cooperation
0018 00:03:06:03 00:03:07:15
OST: In all areas.
0019 00:03:07:20 00:03:12:07
This report reveals how a Dutch
doping network has
0020 00:03:12:12 00:03:15:22
made enormous profits distributing illegal drugs,
0021 00:03:16:02 00:03:20:04
and confronts the group's ringleader with the evidence.
0023 00:03:22:19 00:03:26:24
OST: Your name in 2004, your name in 2005...
0024 00:03:27:04 00:03:30:01
OST: How long have you continued dealing?
0026 00:03:45:14 00:03:48:15
Peter is 31 years old,
0027 00:03:48:20 00:03:51:23
and is an enthusiastic, long term member of a public gym.
0028 00:03:52:03 00:03:56:10
He is keen to talk about his
doping, but wants to remain anonymous.
0029 00:03:56:15 00:04:00:16
For many years he has
used a diverse range of performance enhancing drugs, steroids, and hormone treatments.
0030 00:04:00:21 00:04:03:11
Peter: Anavar, lumisterol ...
0031 00:04:03:16 00:04:06:13
Peter: Dianabol, testosterone, deca ...
0032 00:04:06:18 00:04:08:09
Peter: trenbolone ...
0033 00:04:08:14 00:04:11:05
Peter: actually I have used all well-known means
0035 00:04:13:02 00:04:16:22
Reporter: Have you used several forms together?
0036 00:04:17:02 00:04:18:18
Peter: Yes, it's called 'stacking':
0037 00:04:18:23 00:04:21:23
Peter: You put together a course,
combining certain drugs.
0038 00:04:22:03 00:04:26:23
Peter: In response to your physique
and the goal you want to achieve.
0039 00:04:28:15 00:04:32:13
Peter: To get the weight and
the look you want.
0040 00:04:32:18 00:04:35:08
Peter: On that basis,
like a medical treatment.
0041 00:04:35:13 00:04:38:17
Peter: This is achieved with substances
which all work together.
0042 00:04:38:22 00:04:40:09
Reporter: What was your goal?
0043 00:04:41:08 00:04:43:20
Peter: Eh ... When I was young,
my goal was
0044 00:04:44:00 00:04:45:21
Peter: to be as large as possible.
0045 00:04:46:01 00:04:50:04
Peter: So really bulking up...
maximum muscle mass.
0046 00:04:50:09 00:04:52:22
Peter: And as
I've gotten older ...
0047 00:04:53:02 00:04:55:24
Peter: that purpose is no longer predominant,
I think.
0048 00:04:56:17 00:05:00:05
Peter: You just want to
look good ...
0049 00:05:00:10 00:05:03:21
Peter: and you just want
dry muscle mass.
0050 00:05:04:01 00:05:05:22
Peter: This is bone, this is bone
0051 00:05:06:02 00:05:08:11
Peter: This is the range
that you want.
0052 00:05:08:16 00:05:10:17
Peter: So you make that clean ...
0053 00:05:18:17 00:05:20:04
Peter: We'll check :
0054 00:05:20:09 00:05:24:04
Peter: If air comes out
instead of blood, you are
in the muscle.
0055 00:05:30:03 00:05:32:08
And then you put in your injection.
0056 00:05:32:13 00:05:35:19
Peter has injected himself this way hundreds of times.
0057 00:05:35:24 00:05:40:06
The man he is injecting here is an acquaintance of his from the Gym,
0058 00:05:40:11 00:05:42:02
who refuses to speak.
0059 00:05:47:02 00:05:50:13
Doping is probably most notorius in the world Athletics.
0060 00:05:50:18 00:05:53:00
Ielja Strik is a competition athlete.
0061 00:05:53:05 00:05:59:08
She is a world champion; eight-times
in the bench press and three times in Powerlifting .
0062 00:06:21:24 00:06:24:10
Reporter: How many kilos?
0063 00:06:24:15 00:06:26:02
Ielja: This is 105.
0064 00:06:26:07 00:06:29:10
Reporter: And what is your personal record?
0066 00:06:31:18 00:06:34:16
Ielja: 200 ...
Reporter 205.
Ielja: Two hundred Kilos. Yes.
0067 00:06:35:19 00:06:39:14
Ielja has trained in the gym nearly every day for years.
0068 00:06:39:19 00:06:41:22
And she has seen a great deal of doping.
0069 00:06:42:02 00:06:46:00
Not by athletes,
but by regular gym users.
0070 00:06:46:05 00:06:49:06
Ielja: There are people who
in such a short time ...
0071 00:06:49:11 00:06:51:14
Ielja: are lifting big weights
0072 00:06:51:19 00:06:54:19
Ielja: and seem horribly strong.
It's just not possible
0073 00:06:54:24 00:06:58:01
As a novice lifter
you do make progress
0074 00:06:58:06 00:07:00:19
but over time.
0075 00:07:00:24 00:07:04:23
You can not make 40 kilos jumps.
That is simply not possible.
0076 00:07:11:03 00:07:13:08
Reporter: You'll hear these crazy things.
0077 00:07:13:13 00:07:17:11
Reporter: People who really want to achieve something quickly.
What do they do?
0078 00:07:17:16 00:07:19:21
Ielja: Yeah, no idea. A hormone treatment?
0079 00:07:21:01 00:07:24:12
Ielja: You see them grow,
but you see them change
0080 00:07:24:17 00:07:26:08
Ielja: in terms of mood.
0081 00:07:27:08 00:07:30:05
Reporter: Because what happens ...?
0082 00:07:30:10 00:07:34:04
Ielja: There are some who are really
may explode over nothing.
0083 00:07:35:06 00:07:39:16
Pim de Ronde specialises in internal medicine at the
Kennemer Hospital in Haarlem.
0084 00:07:39:21 00:07:44:02
For 2 years he has treated
gym users who have been doping.
0085 00:07:44:07 00:07:49:02
Each week he adds a few new names to his list of anabolic outpatients
0086 00:07:49:07 00:07:52:21
Pim: They use everything
but to be more muscular.
0087 00:07:53:15 00:07:57:17
Pim: An average course consists
two, three, or sometimes even more different chemicals.
0088 00:07:57:22 00:08:01:13
Pim: Often two or three
anabolic steroids combined.
0089 00:08:01:18 00:08:06:02
Pim: Deca-Durabolin is common, trenbolone,
boldenone and dianabole.
0090 00:08:06:07 00:08:08:14
Pim: These are both oral and intravenous.
0091 00:08:10:17 00:08:15:21
Pim: In about a quarter of
the cases growth hormones
were added.
0092 00:08:16:01 00:08:18:00
Pim: That is not anabolic steroids .
0093 00:08:18:05 00:08:23:07
Pim: It is a hormone that you inject
and also has the effect of muscle growth.
0094 00:08:24:13 00:08:26:19
Pim: And insulin is sometimes used ...
0095 00:08:26:24 00:08:31:17
Pim: to be able to eat more, in order to get more
calories.
0096 00:08:42:17 00:08:45:08
Pim: There's a certain cowboy attitude .
0097 00:08:47:02 00:08:51:05
Pim: and that provides part of
the risk:
0098 00:08:51:10 00:08:53:19
Pim: So many people use
0099 00:08:53:24 00:08:56:24
Pim: a variety of drugs
Mixing them...
0100 00:08:57:04 00:09:01:23
Pim: and people don't know when to stop. It is escalating.
0101 00:09:02:03 00:09:05:22
Many of his patients suffer problems with their libido
0102 00:09:06:02 00:09:08:16
They lose their desire
to have sex.
0103 00:09:08:21 00:09:11:24
Another side effect
is depression.
0104 00:09:12:04 00:09:13:17
Pim: I've seen men ...
0105 00:09:13:22 00:09:19:05
Pim: present rather large psychological problems during their course...
0106 00:09:20:05 00:09:23:16
Pim: things you would consider symptoms of paranoia.
0107 00:09:23:21 00:09:27:00
Pim: I even once had a patient
who's symptoms were so acute
0108 00:09:27:05 00:09:31:17
Pim: a psychiatrist recommended he should be
interned because of these problems.
0109 00:09:40:02 00:09:44:23
Pim: Doping is for many people still
only a problem in the sporting world.
0110 00:09:45:03 00:09:50:09
Pim: I also have the impression that many
policymakers are also only concerned sports doping.
0111 00:09:50:14 00:09:55:10
Pim: A familiar example is the furore about Lance Armstrong ...
0112 00:09:55:15 00:09:57:16
Pim: and doping in cycling.
0113 00:09:57:21 00:10:01:18
Pim: I think the problem is greater
in amateur sports
0114 00:10:01:23 00:10:05:18
Pim: and that is something that
recieves little attention
0115 00:10:05:23 00:10:08:09
Pim: in discussion and policy
0116 00:10:08:14 00:10:11:16
Edith Schippers: I have often said
that it is high time
0117 00:10:11:21 00:10:15:21
Edith Schippers: that cycling's dirty laundry was thoroughly cleaned.
0118 00:10:16:01 00:10:19:06
Edith Schippers: Last week we took a positive step
forward, I think.
0119 00:10:19:11 00:10:23:24
The health minister stated that the
doping scandals in cycling ..
0120 00:10:24:04 00:10:27:12
showed time and again that sport
need to be cleaned of doping.
0121 00:10:27:17 00:10:30:13
The minister did
call on the fitness industry
0122 00:10:30:18 00:10:33:12
to acknowledge the responsibility of the sector itself.
0123 00:10:33:17 00:10:36:14
Gym owners should
be helping to prevent doping.
0124 00:10:36:19 00:10:40:02
Industry figures insist they are taking notice. Fit!Vak owns
940 gyms in the netherlands.
0126 00:10:46:24 00:10:51:15
Ronald Woufers (Fit!vak):Arrangements have been made
with companies that put in place anti-doping policy.
0127 00:10:51:20 00:10:53:24
Ronald: There is an anti-doping agreement
0128 00:10:54:04 00:10:58:15
Ronald: Containing rules that if any members are caught using drugs
0129 00:10:58:20 00:11:02:07
Ronald: they must be disbarred
from the clubs where they train.
0130 00:11:03:11 00:11:07:16
These regulations were made in
consultation with the Doping Authority.
0131 00:11:07:21 00:11:12:20
Which provides information,
organises doping controls
and informs athletes.
0132 00:11:13:00 00:11:17:16
Director Ram estimates there are 160,000 users in the Netherlands,
0133 00:11:17:21 00:11:21:04
and that many will suffer
with health problems.
0134 00:11:21:09 00:11:24:00
Herman Ram: The picture is starting to become a little clearer
0135 00:11:24:05 00:11:26:17
Herman Ram: because we now have the anabolic outpatient
system
0136 00:11:26:22 00:11:31:04
Herman Ram: where users are monitored
with questionnaires.
0137 00:11:31:09 00:11:34:15
Herman Ram: And there you see that the percentage
suffering side affects is huge.
0138 00:11:34:20 00:11:37:12
Herman Ram: There are very few people
free of symptoms.
0139 00:11:37:17 00:11:39:23
Herman Ram: In the region of a few percent.
0140 00:11:40:03 00:11:43:24
Herman Ram: All other users have at least one or more complaints linked to their doping.
0141 00:11:44:04 00:11:49:16
The articles for doping in gyms
came into effect on January 1, 2012.
0142 00:11:49:21 00:11:52:05
Article 9.4 reads:
0143 00:11:52:10 00:11:58:13
The consumer is not allowed
to make use of the equipment
and facilities ...
0144 00:11:58:18 00:12:02:10
if under the influence of
doping agents.
0145 00:12:02:15 00:12:06:12
Reporter: How often has this regulation been violated in the past year?
0146 00:12:06:17 00:12:08:08
Ronald: It hasn't been violated.
0147 00:12:08:13 00:12:11:03
Reporter: How can that be?
Ronald: That ... I do not know.
0148 00:12:11:08 00:12:13:16
Reporter: You do the trade association.
Ronald: Yes.
0149 00:12:13:21 00:12:16:21
Ronald We have no signals
that this rule is violated.
0150 00:12:17:01 00:12:20:12
Herman Ram: You are saying that rule hasn't been violated?
0151 00:12:20:17 00:12:23:06
Reporter: Your first reaction, please.
Zero.
0152 00:12:23:11 00:12:25:16
Herman: Well ...
Reporter: 940 gyms.
Herman: Yes.
0153 00:12:25:21 00:12:28:19
Herman: That means ...
Reporter: 160,000 drug users.
0154 00:12:28:24 00:12:31:22
Herman: That means, I think,
that statement is false.
0155 00:12:32:02 00:12:36:03
Herman: I think there must be
violations ...
0156 00:12:36:08 00:12:38:24
Herman: or which do not penetrate
to the management
0157 00:12:39:04 00:12:42:13
Herman: or lead to expulsion,
as was intended.
0158 00:12:43:13 00:12:45:08
Peter is amonst the thousands to have experienced side affects from doping
0159 00:12:45:13 00:12:49:23
he reported to Doctor Ronde with strange aches in his chest.
0161 00:12:53:22 00:12:56:17
Peter: After my treatment I had suffered
with gynomastica.
0162 00:12:56:22 00:12:59:03
Peter: Gynomastica's, uh ...
0163 00:12:59:08 00:13:01:05
Peter: nipple swelling in men ...
0164 00:13:01:10 00:13:07:04
Peter: caused by excess estrogen
in your blood.
0165 00:13:07:09 00:13:08:21
Peter: That's due to the steroids and hormones.
0166 00:13:09:01 00:13:10:13
Peter: And you can, uh ...
0167 00:13:10:18 00:13:12:16
Peter: That can hurt in your chest.
0168 00:13:12:21 00:13:14:12
Peter: With these ailments I was ...
0169 00:13:14:17 00:13:16:22
Peter: and with those questions, I went to doctor Ronde
0170 00:13:17:02 00:13:20:09
Peter: I got through my treatment
with Dr De Ronde ...
0171 00:13:20:14 00:13:23:16
Peter: and received more insight when he
0172 00:13:23:21 00:13:26:06
Peter: tested my blood.
0173 00:13:26:11 00:13:30:03
Peter: And, consequently,
I could take steps ...
0174 00:13:30:08 00:13:32:09
Peter: to relieve the pain.
0175 00:13:32:14 00:13:37:02
Reporter: Have you stopped
doping, or just continued?
0176 00:13:37:07 00:13:39:00
Peter: I then stopped ...
0177 00:13:39:05 00:13:43:03
Peter: but this is no reason for me
to stop completely
0178 00:13:43:08 00:13:46:04
Peter: I have taken a break
0179 00:13:46:09 00:13:49:09
Peter: and I will begin
another course in time.
0180 00:13:50:10 00:13:54:09
Most performance enhancing drugs are purchased via the internet.
0181 00:13:54:14 00:13:57:03
Anabolic Steroids, growth hormones and EPO
0182 00:13:57:08 00:14:03:15
all available on websites, with the products arranged as
you would find on any normal online retailer.
0183 00:14:03:20 00:14:06:21
The question is: Where do
all these drugs come from?
0186 00:14:23:04 00:14:25:19
Johan: This together is 270 euros.
0187 00:14:25:24 00:14:30:08
Johan has supplied performance enhancing drugs
in Dutch gyms for decades,
0188 00:14:30:13 00:14:34:07
delivering the chemicals with strict instructions
showing buyers how best to use them.
0189 00:14:34:12 00:14:38:07
He refuses to have his face shown on camera..
0190 00:14:38:12 00:14:41:07
Reporter: How many customers operate
in this way?
0191 00:14:41:12 00:14:43:13
Johan: Look, it's ... come and go.
0192 00:14:43:18 00:14:45:15
Johan: Come and go, come and go.
0193 00:14:45:20 00:14:47:23
Johan: So it is not ONE time.
0194 00:14:50:03 00:14:53:07
Johan: There is no greater turnover
than in the gym.
0195 00:14:53:12 00:14:55:11
Johan: So it keeps going.
0196 00:14:55:16 00:14:58:12
Johan: Tomorrow he is 18,
so to speak.
0197 00:14:58:17 00:15:00:19
Johan: he hits the gym.
0198 00:15:00:24 00:15:02:23
Johan: This keeps it going.
0199 00:15:03:03 00:15:05:15
Johan: It continues.
0200 00:15:05:20 00:15:08:17
Reporter: So you can not say
how many customers ...
0201 00:15:08:22 00:15:12:22
Johan: Yes, over the years, of course,
thousands.
0202 00:15:13:02 00:15:16:02
Johan: Thousands. Through the years.
Yes. Yes.
0203 00:15:22:14 00:15:25:10
Johan: There is a lot
purchased on the Internet.
0205 00:15:28:15 00:15:31:17
Johan: I hear
a thing or two.
0206 00:15:31:22 00:15:36:08
Johan: That there are bad drugs out there, and that scares me.
0207 00:15:36:13 00:15:40:18
Johan: Then I immediately think: My, my, we are sunk.
0208 00:15:40:23 00:15:42:17
Johan: In the past, everything was perfect.
0209 00:15:42:22 00:15:46:01
Johan: All things came
from an official plant.
0210 00:15:47:17 00:15:50:14
Reporter: Of the pharmaceutical industry?
Johan: Yes, yes.
0211 00:15:50:19 00:15:53:18
Johan: The official
pharmaceutical industry.
0212 00:15:53:23 00:15:55:13
Johan: From Organon ...
0213 00:15:55:18 00:15:57:21
Johan: uh, Pfizer ...
0214 00:15:58:01 00:16:00:00
Johan: Schering, you name it.
0215 00:16:01:18 00:16:05:02
Johan: And you knew what you bought with confidence.
0216 00:16:05:07 00:16:09:11
Johan: All that was left to think about was:
How does someone use it?
0217 00:16:09:16 00:16:12:11
Johan: It's not like that now.
0218 00:16:13:21 00:16:16:20
Johan has seen the doping trade transform
0219 00:16:17:00 00:16:21:08
There are groups of traders active
who import raw materials
0220 00:16:21:13 00:16:25:00
and then produce their own drugs in laboratories.
0221 00:16:25:05 00:16:30:16
Johan: The problem is that we're now
stuck with underground laboratories.
0222 00:16:30:21 00:16:34:07
Reporter: What is the problem?
Johan: Well, that anabolic steroids are ...
0223 00:16:34:12 00:16:37:08
Johan: you can't trust
exactly what happens.
0224 00:16:37:13 00:16:41:09
Johan: We previously knew reliably
that it's all good,
0225 00:16:41:14 00:16:43:15
Johan: and what the official products were.
0226 00:16:43:20 00:16:47:06
Johan: But how big is the bang ...
0227 00:16:47:11 00:16:50:05
Johan: we will get
in the course of the years ...
0228 00:16:50:10 00:16:54:24
Johan: of these resources, underground
be made? Nobody knows.
0229 00:16:55:04 00:16:58:10
Johan: I can reveal nothing else about
about it ...
0230 00:16:58:15 00:17:01:24
Johan: because I've never met these people.
0231 00:17:03:03 00:17:07:17
This is a rare photo taken
in one of these underground laboratories.
0232 00:17:07:22 00:17:11:00
revealed by the Doping Authority.
0233 00:17:11:05 00:17:16:01
Herman: we are aware
of the new way the merchants are working.
0234 00:17:16:06 00:17:18:02
Herman: It is of course illegal.
0235 00:17:18:07 00:17:23:11
Herman: The traders are not likely
to come forward and never seek
publicity.
0236 00:17:23:16 00:17:26:10
Herman: They have their own interests
0237 00:17:26:15 00:17:29:24
Herman: And it's underground.
We have no clear picture of the industry.
0238 00:17:30:04 00:17:33:13
Herman: We know a little of what happens,
but not accurately.
0239 00:17:33:18 00:17:37:13
Reporter: How many of those groups of traders
there are in the Netherlands?
0240 00:17:37:18 00:17:41:14
Herman: I can not say. We know
that it is a kind of network:
0241 00:17:41:19 00:17:45:11
Herman: People know each other and there are
many relationships in that market.
0242 00:17:45:16 00:17:50:21
Herman: We know that there are a number of groups
and individuals,
but not much else.
0243 00:17:51:01 00:17:55:16
Although the anti-doping policy
is mainly focused on sport
0244 00:17:55:21 00:17:59:21
it is precisely at amateur level
where the dangers are highest -
0245 00:18:01:24 00:18:06:01
as with the 160,000 users in Dutch Gyms.
0246 00:18:06:06 00:18:09:20
The risk of doping
to their health is largely unknown
0247 00:18:10:00 00:18:13:23
because the resources are produced
in underground laboratories.
0248 00:18:14:03 00:18:19:20
It's unclear exactly how many doping laboratories there are in the netherlands,
0249 00:18:21:07 00:18:24:23
But an answer may lie across the border in Belgium,
0250 00:18:25:03 00:18:31:12
Belgium is home to the international
Investigation established
to combat the doping trade:
0251 00:18:31:17 00:18:37:16
The leadership
of the specialist anti-doping team operate from this monumental hq
0253 00:18:44:03 00:18:46:04
Francis Clarysse: Olivier Once represents customs agencies.
0254 00:18:46:09 00:18:49:08
Francis Clarysse: Walter Heel
of the Food Agency.
0255 00:18:49:13 00:18:52:00
Francis Clarysse: Jan van den Boeynants
of the police.
0256 00:18:52:05 00:18:55:20
Francis Clarysse: And Roy Cauwenberghe
of the Medicines Agency.
0257 00:18:56:00 00:19:01:15
Francis Clarysse: And the Federal Public
Health is also represented.
0258 00:19:01:20 00:19:05:20
Francis Clarysse: I think that being
structured to work in this way
0259 00:19:06:00 00:19:09:05
Francis Clarysse: avoids
the various services ...
0260 00:19:09:10 00:19:13:15
Francis Clarysse: working at cross purposes pursuing the same targets
0261 00:19:13:20 00:19:16:06
Francis Clarysse: The information is shared.
0262 00:19:16:11 00:19:20:04
Francis Clarysse: You also share knowledge
and expertise.
0263 00:19:20:09 00:19:25:10
Francis Clarysse: And it is also important
because on the other side ...
0264 00:19:25:15 00:19:28:10
Francis Clarysse: the people to whom we
The fight ...
0265 00:19:28:15 00:19:30:13
Francis Clarysse: are also well armed ...
0266 00:19:30:18 00:19:34:10
Francis Clarysse: and have specialized consultants
and lawyers ...
0267 00:19:34:15 00:19:38:15
Francis Clarysse: because the matter is quite technical,
legally complicated ...
0268 00:19:38:20 00:19:42:17
Francis Clarysse: and also the field of detection of the
products is complex.
0269 00:19:42:22 00:19:46:24
Francis Clarysse: So it is important that all these
knowledges are pooled and shared.
0270 00:19:48:15 00:19:53:12
The Netherlands has no special service
to combat doping trade.
0271 00:19:53:17 00:19:59:08
There is no agreement between
the Doping Authority, Justice,
Police and customs.
0272 00:19:59:13 00:20:02:24
Herman: Each organization decides on strategies individually.
0273 00:20:03:04 00:20:05:24
Reporter: How can that be?
Herman: It's a simple choice
for the government
0274 00:20:06:04 00:20:10:03
Herman: and the various agencies,
to do so. Or not.
0275 00:20:10:08 00:20:13:13
Reporter:: You know a thing
the doping trade.
0276 00:20:13:18 00:20:18:02
Reporter: How serious is it that we have such
institution does not have in our country?
0277 00:20:18:07 00:20:22:19
Herman: From my position
and responsibility
I find it very disturbing.
0278 00:20:22:24 00:20:26:15
Herman: To some extent we
are attending to an open tap with a mop.
0279 00:20:26:20 00:20:30:01
Herman: I would like to see the flow stopped.
0280 00:20:30:06 00:20:34:19
Belgium has in recent years
been awash with drugs from the Netherlands.
0281 00:20:34:24 00:20:39:16
often with sales operating through Dutch registered websites.
0282 00:20:41:00 00:20:45:01
Francis Clarysse: There are certainly some twenty
websites ...
0283 00:20:45:06 00:20:48:20
Francis Clarysse: suspected to
be managed in the Netherlands.
0284 00:20:49:00 00:20:52:18
Francis Clarysse: They also focus
on marketing to Belgium.
0285 00:20:52:23 00:20:57:16
Francis Clarysse: We can determine this because they
themselves indicate on their websites ...
0286 00:20:57:21 00:20:59:15
t Francis Clarysse: they deliver in Belgium ...
0287 00:20:59:20 00:21:03:22
Francis Clarysse: that they have a separate shipping fee
for Belgium.
0288 00:21:04:02 00:21:08:19
The drugs are manufactured in
in Dutch underground
laboratories.
0289 00:21:08:24 00:21:11:00
With all the risks that entails.
0290 00:21:12:07 00:21:15:13
Roy van Cauwenberghe : That is the great danger
public health:
0291 00:21:15:18 00:21:17:09
Roy van Cauwenberghe : That these athletes ...
0292 00:21:18:05 00:21:21:05
Roy van Cauwenberghe : are not using quality drugs...
0293 00:21:21:10 00:21:26:06
Roy van Cauwenberghe : that the professional circuit can achieve.
0294 00:21:27:08 00:21:29:09
Roy van Cauwenberghe : But I will not name names.
0295 00:21:29:14 00:21:32:03
Roy van Cauwenberghe : But the whole pyramid there under ...
0296 00:21:32:08 00:21:34:22
Roy van Cauwenberghe : turns to the black market ...
0297 00:21:35:02 00:21:38:09
Roy van Cauwenberghe : pay much less
for those products ...
0298 00:21:38:14 00:21:41:22
Roy van Cauwenberghe : but recieve very dangerous products
into their hands.
0299 00:21:42:02 00:21:47:01
Roy van Cauwenberghe : Which are counterfeited,
which do not contain the substances
on the attached label.
0300 00:21:47:06 00:21:50:04
Roy van Cauwenberghe : Even contain downright toxic substances.
0301 00:21:50:09 00:21:54:24
The Belgians know, by thorough
examination,
0302 00:21:55:04 00:21:58:20
precisely how many underground labs are active in the netherlands.
0303 00:21:59:00 00:22:03:12
Francis Clarysse: If you see that before 2011
we hadn't discovered anabolenlab
0304 00:22:03:17 00:22:09:17
Francis Clarysse: but that in the last few years
three anabolic labs have been dismantled
in Belgium ...
0305 00:22:09:22 00:22:12:12
Francis Clarysse: information that we previously had ...
0306 00:22:12:17 00:22:17:01
Francis Clarysse: on four underground
steroid factories in the Netherlands ...
0307 00:22:17:06 00:22:20:19
Francis Clarysse: almost doubled,
We can say ...
0308 00:22:20:24 00:22:25:02
Francis Clarysse: that there is a significant increase.
Reporter: Are you worried about it?
0309 00:22:25:07 00:22:26:24
Francis Clarysse: Evidently.
0310 00:22:27:04 00:22:30:21
Reporter: The Belgian authorities are able to indicate
a concrete number.
0311 00:22:31:01 00:22:34:22
Reporter: How can the dutch Doping Authority
not know itself?
0312 00:22:35:02 00:22:40:12
Herman: We are not a Judicial
investigative authority. We have not
been tasked to detect this.
0313 00:22:40:17 00:22:43:11
Herman: We only hear from users ...
0314 00:22:43:16 00:22:48:11
Herman: and we see the stuff on the
market. That is our information
about what is happening.
0315 00:22:48:16 00:22:52:10
Reporter: Who fights the drug trade
here then?
0316 00:22:52:15 00:22:55:22
According to the ministry of Health, the Agenda of Minister Schippers will not allow them to post comment..
0318 00:23:01:10 00:23:07:04
The Customs and Inspection
Healthcare will not
comment for the camera.
0319 00:23:07:09 00:23:11:03
Detection is a task
of the Public Prosecutor,
who continue to prosecute the illegal drug trade
0322 00:23:18:14 00:23:21:05
But doping is considered to be
as a secondary problem.
0323 00:23:21:10 00:23:25:12
After a trial on
illegal drugs trafficking
0324 00:23:25:17 00:23:28:16
the public prosecutors office offered the following explanation.
0325 00:23:28:21 00:23:33:19
Frouke Heus: We have in the last year been researching the
illegal drugs trade
0326 00:23:33:24 00:23:37:07
Frouke Heus: and it has remained focused in
illegal drugs.
0327 00:23:37:12 00:23:42:11
Reporter: That's the position of the prosecutors office?
0328 00:23:42:16 00:23:46:17
Frouke Heus: We have done studies
on illegal drugs.
0329 00:23:46:22 00:23:50:01
Frouke Heus: Which were not targeted
doping on trade.
0330 00:23:50:06 00:23:54:19
Reporter: But is it not that drug trafficking
a very specific niche ...
0331 00:23:54:24 00:24:00:03
Reporter: in illegal drugs?
Why take it separately?
0332 00:24:00:08 00:24:03:10
Frouke Heus: Today we are talking about trade
to illegal drugs.
0333 00:24:03:15 00:24:09:10
Reporter: Inventory Do you sometimes find much
doping as a side-catch to this kind of research?
0334 00:24:09:15 00:24:13:09
Frouke Heus: We have today only been disucssing the
trafficking of illegal drugs.
0335 00:24:13:14 00:24:16:18
After the interview, the Justice revealed in writing that in the last year only one case of illegal doping was uncovered.
0337 00:24:21:17 00:24:26:10
Francis Clarysse: We've also been to Rotterdam
0338 00:24:26:15 00:24:29:04
Francis Clarysse: to raise a number of issues
0339 00:24:29:09 00:24:33:21
Francis Clarysse: but I think this matter remains a low priority in
the Netherlands .
0340 00:24:34:01 00:24:36:16
Roy van Cauwenberghe : You put the finger on the sore point.
0341 00:24:36:21 00:24:41:18
Roy van Cauwenberghe : They've apparantly suspended border cooperation
0342 00:24:41:23 00:24:43:23
Roy van Cauwenberghe : In all areas.
0343 00:24:44:03 00:24:46:09
Roy van Cauwenberghe : And that has to improve quickly.
0344 00:24:46:14 00:24:50:11
Roy van Cauwenberghe : Let your broadcast be a signal to
the politicians ...
0345 00:24:50:16 00:24:53:09
Roy van Cauwenberghe : for some more table
discussions.
0346 00:24:53:14 00:24:57:15
Roy van Cauwenberghe : And the conversation, cross-border,
must get easier.
0347 00:24:57:20 00:25:02:07
Reporter: Otherwise, we suffer more
of this problem?
0348 00:25:02:12 00:25:07:04
Roy van Cauwenberghe : These problems do not get solved,
are not thoroughly addressed.
0349 00:25:08:20 00:25:12:09
Roy van Cauwenberghe : Which must be eradicated branch and root
.
0350 00:25:12:14 00:25:15:21
Roy van Cauwenberghe : The threats to public health
are much too large.
0352 00:25:18:16 00:25:24:00
Reporter: Netherlands is therefore a kind of
become a distribution centre
doping products?
Roy van Cauwenberghe: I do not say.
0353 00:25:24:05 00:25:28:05
Roy van Cauwenberghe: It is a weak link
in the chain.
0354 00:25:28:10 00:25:32:10
Reporter: A weak link.
Roy van Cauwenberghe Yes,
in international cooperation.
0355 00:25:32:15 00:25:35:17
Reporter: And Belgium is worried?
Roy van Cauwenberghe: of Course.
0356 00:25:35:22 00:25:39:17
The prosectors office responded with this written statement:
We do not recognize the picture you paint of our co-operation with international authorities.
0357 00:25:46:22 00:25:52:10
Why do the Dutch Justices
allow this large-scale illegal
drug trade?
0358 00:25:52:15 00:25:56:20
"Anyone can drop dead '.
0359 00:25:57:00 00:26:00:02
is an internal dutch government memo from 2005.
0360 00:26:00:07 00:26:03:01
It includes recommendations like this:
"The Public Prosecutor's Office should try to work with other parties to participate as much as possible to discourage drug trafficking."
0361 00:26:14:10 00:26:16:10
And this:
'For the detection to be more likely to succeed, it is imperative to improve the cooperation between the Dutch investigative services. "
0362 00:26:28:22 00:26:35:12
When asked if the recommendations had been enacted, the public prosecutors office responded as follows
"the note had an internal character and therefore cannot been made public."
0363 00:26:44:03 00:26:47:08
Herman: Apparently no
action was taken.
0364 00:26:47:13 00:26:52:22
Herman: At least, I do not see any of
this report coming to effect.
0365 00:26:53:02 00:26:56:13
Reporter: How serious do you consider it that in 2005 there
is
0366 00:26:56:18 00:27:00:23
Reporter: an urgent need identified,
that it is going to happen
and fails to appear?
0367 00:27:01:03 00:27:03:09
Herman: In my daily life it is serious.
0368 00:27:03:14 00:27:07:06
Herman: Of course I would like to see that development
in place
0369 00:27:07:11 00:27:09:14
Herman: But so far it hasn't worked.
0375 00:27:24:00 00:27:26:17
OST Ielja Strik, go inside
for weighing.
0377 00:27:32:05 00:27:36:15
OST 85.9. Noted.
0379 00:27:40:01 00:27:41:21
OST Good luck, Ielja.
0380 00:27:42:01 00:27:45:04
Reporter: Have you ever tested positive?
Ielja: No.
0381 00:27:45:09 00:27:47:14
Ielja: I just won't.
0382 00:27:47:19 00:27:51:12
Ielja: Because the risk it
entails, is:
0383 00:27:51:17 00:27:55:22
Ielja: If did it and was caught ...
0384 00:27:56:02 00:28:00:03
Ielja: and have anyone point the
finger at me, saying: I knew it.
0385 00:28:00:08 00:28:02:08
Ielja: That I do not want.
0386 00:28:02:13 00:28:06:23
Ielja: Everything I had done,
would go in the trash.
Today, Ielja is chasing a record.
0402 00:29:01:12 00:29:04:15
Reporter: What went wrong?
Ielja: It just does not feel good.
0403 00:29:04:20 00:29:08:20
Ielja: I do not know what it is today.
Ielja: The intillen already felt uncomfortable.
0404 00:29:09:00 00:29:12:21
Ielja: It all takes too long.
Ielja: I just can't...
0405 00:29:13:01 00:29:14:13
Ielja: It's just sour.
0406 00:29:14:18 00:29:18:17
Ielja: Last week and the week before
I pushed so easy ...
0407 00:29:18:22 00:29:23:17
Ielja: and now, on the day, I bottle it.
Ielja: That actually happens to me; almost impossible.
0408 00:29:23:22 00:29:27:22
Reporter: So ... You doin '
another try.
Ielja: Yes.
0409 00:29:30:19 00:29:33:22
Just how seriously Dutch
doping policy fails ...
0410 00:29:34:02 00:29:40:11
is revealed when reconstructing
how ONE of the largest networks
of recent years operates.
0411 00:29:41:14 00:29:43:22
It's November 2003.
0412 00:29:44:02 00:29:48:03
In Antwerp Customs find
a suspicious package.
0413 00:29:48:08 00:29:53:21
That discovery leads to a house,
with half a million worth of illegal performance enhancing drugs.
0414 00:29:54:01 00:29:57:19
A Belgian couple are arrested.
0415 00:30:00:15 00:30:05:02
Jan Van Den Boeynants: The police of Antwerp
investigated further
0416 00:30:05:07 00:30:10:23
Jan Van Den Boeynants: and it then emerged that the couple
was selling steroids.
0417 00:30:11:03 00:30:16:04
Jan Van Den Boeynants: ONE of their suppliers
was a Dutchman, who supplied
Generic Supplements .
0418 00:30:16:09 00:30:22:14
Generic Supplements. The Belgian
Police notes that it is a
Dutch group
0419 00:30:22:19 00:30:27:14
manufacturing large quantities and then sell them worldwide.
0420 00:30:27:19 00:30:31:10
Roy van Cauwenberghe: Generic Supplements
appear very frequently.
0421 00:30:31:15 00:30:34:21
Roy van Cauwenberghe: In raids, in bodybuilders.
0422 00:30:35:01 00:30:38:02
Roy van Cauwenberghe: In studies
to narcotics.
0423 00:30:38:07 00:30:43:02
Roy van Cauwenberghe If one takes anabolic steroids, then
there is very a frequent presence ...
0424 00:30:43:07 00:30:45:09
Roy van Cauwenberghe: of such products ...
0425 00:30:45:14 00:30:50:23
Roy van Cauwenberghe: that are very low quality
and that could be very dangerous.
0426 00:30:51:23 00:30:56:09
Roy van Cauwenberghe: What is in the bottle is, is not
always what is on the label.
0427 00:30:58:04 00:31:05:16
The group runs an underground lab
in the Brabant Woudrichem.
0428 00:31:05:21 00:31:11:15
On 23 March 2004,
that laboratory, at the request of
Belgians, is raided.
0429 00:31:11:20 00:31:14:21
The groups Laboratory assistant is detained
0430 00:31:15:01 00:31:18:04
This is the official report of his interrogation. It reveals that the group who makes Generic Supplements controls the Dutch market violently.
0431 00:31:18:09 00:31:23:20
We read that the group
the Dutch market
violently checks.
0432 00:31:24:00 00:31:28:05
this American bodybuilder Dorian Yates was brutally assaulted by enforcers of the dope dealers in 2003.
0434 00:31:34:05 00:31:39:19
Yates had organized
a match in the Netherlands,
without the permission of the group.
0436 00:31:42:14 00:31:46:00
Johan: I think there is a great deal of violence
0437 00:31:46:05 00:31:50:11
Johan: I actually have
never had any problems.
0438 00:31:50:16 00:31:52:16
Johan: When does that happen?
0439 00:31:52:21 00:31:54:21
Johan: When it comes to money.
0440 00:31:55:01 00:31:59:13
The drug trade is worth tens
of millions of euros.
0441 00:31:59:18 00:32:02:19
The technician from Woudrichem
get community service.
0442 00:32:02:24 00:32:06:09
We speak to him, but he refuses to appear on camera.
0443 00:32:06:14 00:32:10:21
Generic Supplements remains
active even after his conviction.
0444 00:32:11:01 00:32:15:10
Reporter: Have you heard from the Dutch police or prosecutors
0445 00:32:15:15 00:32:21:05
Reporter: how it went with that group? Because there was a raid in Woudrichem.
0446 00:32:21:10 00:32:27:17
Reporter: What happened, Mr.
Van den Boeynants?
Jan Van Den Boeynants: I have received no feedback .
Reporter: None?
0447 00:32:27:22 00:32:32:09
Reporter: It's apparently a very large organization.
0448 00:32:35:04 00:32:39:02
Generic Supplements just keep showing up.
0449 00:32:39:07 00:32:42:02
The Belgian police
decided in 2006 ...
0450 00:32:42:07 00:32:46:16
to launch an undercover operation in the Netherlands.
0451 00:32:46:21 00:32:51:10
Belgian officers performed a
fake purchase of drugs in Breda.
0452 00:32:51:15 00:32:56:22
As a result, two dealers in Generic Supplements products
were arrested.
0453 00:32:57:02 00:33:00:09
Herman: Yes, it might be painful
for our country.
0454 00:33:00:14 00:33:02:14
Herman: It could not be ...
0455 00:33:02:19 00:33:07:09
Herman: that the Belgian courts
had to perform a sting operation catching dutch criminals
0456 00:33:07:14 00:33:10:21
Reporter: It just happens, you know.
Herman: Yes, I understand.
0457 00:33:11:01 00:33:12:15
Herman: It is disturbing.
0458 00:33:12:20 00:33:16:12
Herman: I think again
the question at issue ...
0459 00:33:16:17 00:33:21:16
Herman: is why this is not a higher priority
for the investigating authorities.
0460 00:33:21:21 00:33:27:13
Generic Supplements
remain on the market,
despite the Belgian police action.
0462 00:33:32:00 00:33:33:14
Jan Van Den Boeynants: I regret very ...
0463 00:33:33:19 00:33:39:09
Jan Van Den Boeynants: but we can only solve crimes that happen in Belgium.
0464 00:33:39:14 00:33:43:12
Reporter: Yes, but how can you leave it as
The Dutch do nothing about it?
0465 00:33:43:17 00:33:48:09
Jan Van Den Boeynants: I do not know if they do nothing. We can only
relay information ...
0466 00:33:48:14 00:33:50:15
Jan Van Den Boeynants: and hope that they do.
0467 00:33:50:20 00:33:55:09
In this police report "the big man” is named.
0468 00:33:55:14 00:33:59:15
It's Mike Tekcandan,
a trainer of martial artists.
0469 00:33:59:20 00:34:02:24
Tekcandan was held in 2005.
0470 00:34:03:04 00:34:07:20
He had inter alia
clenbuterol in his possession,
an asthma remedy for horses.
0471 00:34:08:00 00:34:13:10
And boldane, an agent
that is used on dogs
after surgery.
0472 00:34:13:15 00:34:19:07
Both agents
are also sold as performance enhancers.
0473 00:34:22:23 00:34:26:07
Herman: There is lots produced that
finds it's way into the system
0474 00:34:26:12 00:34:30:07
Herman: So there are large amounts
consumed by humans.
0475 00:34:30:12 00:34:36:04
Herman: And probably with people
with the impression that there's no risk, no harm ...
0476 00:34:36:09 00:34:38:16
Herman: or how to control the risks.
0477 00:34:38:21 00:34:45:19
Herman: And it is not true that the risk
acutely translates into death traps
immediately...
0478 00:34:45:24 00:34:47:21
Herman: There is a serious risk ...
0479 00:34:48:01 00:34:51:23
Herman: and that often doesn't manifest
until years after use.
0480 00:34:52:03 00:34:55:22
Herman: So this has implications
for public health.
0481 00:34:56:02 00:34:59:23
Tekcandan in was sentenced in 2006
0482 00:35:00:03 00:35:02:19
for extortion
and drug trafficking.
0483 00:35:02:24 00:35:05:18
But Generic Supplements
remains very much on the market.
0485 00:35:10:08 00:35:12:13
Peter: This is
Generic Supplements.
0486 00:35:12:18 00:35:15:06
Peter: One of deca
0487 00:35:15:11 00:35:17:16
Peter: And dianabol.
0488 00:35:17:21 00:35:21:07
Peter: This is the new packaging
for Generic Supplements.
0489 00:35:21:12 00:35:25:05
Peter: That they have made better; it fits
through the letterbox.
0490 00:35:25:10 00:35:29:05
Peter: It used to be in jars like this,
but they don't fit through the letterbox.
0491 00:35:29:10 00:35:34:04
Peter has a website, with which he
informs users about doping.
0492 00:35:34:09 00:35:39:07
Generic Supplement's products
are simply listed.
0493 00:35:39:12 00:35:42:21
Peter: I think that
you pay the higher price
0494 00:35:43:01 00:35:47:08
Peter: for some stuff
to avoid detection.
0496 00:35:52:07 00:35:57:12
The authorities
have let Generic Supplements slip by for over ten years.
0497 00:35:57:17 00:36:04:09
Taking their doping to markets beyond national borders, with all the risks that entails.
0498 00:36:04:14 00:36:10:17
The authorities know the dangers
of this type of trade, revealed
by the internal memo from 2005.
0499 00:36:13:24 00:36:16:23
Maybe Mike Teckandan himself can explain why Generic Supplements is still able to trade
0500 00:36:17:03 00:36:21:12
He coaches athletes and
a gym in Apeldoorn.
0501 00:36:21:17 00:36:23:22
He also agreed to an interview.
0502 00:36:24:02 00:36:27:24
And promised to answer any questions on illegal doping.
0504 00:36:31:08 00:36:34:03
Mike Teckandan: I program their training
and nutrition schedule.
0505 00:36:34:08 00:36:36:13
Mike Teckandan: I train some personally.
0506 00:36:36:18 00:36:41:00
Mike Teckandan: And if they choose to
to use ...
0507 00:36:41:05 00:36:44:23
Mike Teckandan: I recommend them products.
But it is their own choice.
0508 00:36:45:03 00:36:49:05
Mike Teckandan: It is their individual choice.
That is very important to me.
0509 00:36:49:10 00:36:53:09
Reporter: They make the choice to
use doping products?
Mike Teckandan: Yes.
0510 00:36:53:14 00:36:57:03
Reporter: And then?
Mike Teckandan: I recommend what is best for them.
0511 00:36:57:08 00:37:00:24
Reporter: Do you also provide doping products?
Mike Teckandan: No.
0512 00:37:02:14 00:37:04:16
Reporter: Not?
Mike Teckandan: No.
0513 00:37:04:21 00:37:06:21
Reporter: We have been investigating a brand
0515 00:37:10:24 00:37:13:12
Reporter: called Generic Supplements.
0516 00:37:13:17 00:37:15:11
Reporter: Do you know that name?
Mike Teckandan: No.
0517 00:37:15:16 00:37:18:15
Reporter: How can that be, because I understand ...
0518 00:37:18:20 00:37:21:22
Reporter: that in March 2004 ...
0520 00:37:24:17 00:37:28:21
Reporter: There was a raid in Woudrichem ...
Mike Teckandan: I do not know anything about.
0521 00:37:29:01 00:37:31:04
Reporter: I would just like to finish.
0522 00:37:31:09 00:37:35:02
Reporter: An underground
laboratory was found there
0523 00:37:35:07 00:37:39:14
Reporter: where a certain (BLEEP) was employed.
Mike Teckandan: No ... No.
0524 00:37:39:19 00:37:42:00
Reporter: Do you know that name?
Mike Teckandan: No.
0525 00:37:47:17 00:37:49:24
Reporter: And they do not know you?
Mike Teckandan: No.
0526 00:37:53:12 00:37:57:07
Reporter: I have the record.
Mike Teckandan: Here I have no sense.
0527 00:37:57:12 00:37:59:12
Mike Teckandan: Here I do not like it, Dirk.
0528 00:37:59:17 00:38:02:05
Reporter: And in that record ...
0529 00:38:02:10 00:38:04:16
Reporter: you are actually called ...
0530 00:38:04:21 00:38:08:20
Reporter: if someone in that group
is employed.
0531 00:38:09:00 00:38:13:02
Mike Teckandan: I do not like it, Dirk. This
is not the purpose of your story.
0532 00:38:13:07 00:38:18:14
Reporter: I now ask a question on
something I've read.
0533 00:38:18:19 00:38:20:14
Mike Teckandan: No, I don't like this.
0534 00:38:20:19 00:38:23:06
Reporter: Not fun, no, but it happened?
0535 00:38:23:11 00:38:26:08
Mike Teckandan: No.
Reporter: Have you been involved in that group?
0536 00:38:26:13 00:38:30:12
Mike Teckandan: I will not dwell on it.
I have nothing to do with it.
0537 00:38:30:17 00:38:34:09
Mike Teckandan: I want to tell you about the
doping, but, no.
0538 00:38:34:14 00:38:38:15
Reporter: But now I say the name of the
laboratory. Who do you know anyway?
Mike Teckandan: No.
0539 00:38:38:20 00:38:41:08
Mike Teckandan: It's good. Come.
Reporter: But ...
0540 00:38:41:13 00:38:43:11
Mike Teckandan: No, this is not funny.
0541 00:38:43:16 00:38:46:15
Mike Teckandan: I have nothing to do with it.
0542 00:38:46:20 00:38:49:02
Reporter: This is stated in the minutes.
0543 00:38:49:07 00:38:51:19
Mike Teckandan: Then you have not read right.
0544 00:38:51:24 00:38:55:08
Reporter: It is here.
Should I read it?
Mike Teckandan: Go ahead.
0545 00:38:55:13 00:39:00:20
Reporter: You will be considered the alleged
leader of that organization.
I mean that.
0546 00:39:01:00 00:39:03:10
Mike Teckandan: I have no idea.
0547 00:39:04:10 00:39:08:13
Reporter: And in November 2005
Clenbuterol is.
0548 00:39:08:18 00:39:13:06
Mike Teckandan: You mean to do this now?
Reporter: Sure. I'd still like to ask the questions.
0549 00:39:13:11 00:39:17:15
Reporter: You have a stock,
products, in your possession ...
0550 00:39:17:20 00:39:22:17
Reporter: including boldane. That agent
is used in dogs ...
0551 00:39:22:22 00:39:26:01
Reporter: a surgical procedure in which
...
0552 00:39:28:02 00:39:30:10
Mike Teckandan: Come, Dirk. Ready.
0553 00:39:30:15 00:39:33:02
Reporter: But what happened?
0554 00:39:33:07 00:39:35:22
Mike Teckandan: Nothing.
Reporter: I think so.
0555 00:39:36:02 00:39:40:02
Mike Teckandan: Come on, guys. We finish now.
I do not like this.
0556 00:39:40:07 00:39:44:15
Reporter: But I must still ask questions?
Mike Teckandan: Do not broadcast this.
0557 00:39:44:20 00:39:48:02
Reporter: I asked whether I could ask these questions?
Mike Teckandan: It was questions about doping.
0558 00:39:48:07 00:39:53:02
Reporter: These are questions about doping and what you
in the past.
Mike Teckandan: No.
0559 00:39:53:07 00:39:55:07
Mike Teckandan: I'm talking about now.
0560 00:39:55:12 00:40:00:07
Reporter: I understand that, but there are a
few moments, apparently ...
0561 00:40:00:12 00:40:04:15
Reporter: in your life as a coach,
or doping trader ...
0562 00:40:04:20 00:40:07:03
Reporter: Are you on the record on this?
Yes.
0563 00:40:07:08 00:40:10:16
Mike Teckandan: come, boys. Out.
Reporter: I ...
Mike Teckandan: Come.
0564 00:40:14:06 00:40:18:01
Reporter: Is it over?
Mike Teckandan: Yes, we had a different appointment.
0565 00:40:18:06 00:40:19:18
Reporter: No, not at all.
0566 00:40:19:23 00:40:22:00
Reporter: We could ask anything ...
0567 00:40:22:05 00:40:26:13
Reporter: about your activities.
Mike Teckandan: But I have nothing to do with it.
0568 00:40:26:18 00:40:30:20
Reporter: Your name in 2004 and in 2005.
0569 00:40:31:00 00:40:34:08
Reporter: How long have you continued
with that trade?
0570 00:40:39:22 00:40:41:24
Mike Teckandan: Shame, Dirk.
0571 00:40:42:04 00:40:44:04
Reporter: What is a shame?
0572 00:40:44:09 00:40:49:13
Reporter: The drug users as
Lance Armstrong, who confess.
0573 00:40:49:18 00:40:52:13
Reporter: And who say:
Sorry, I'm sorry.
0574 00:40:52:18 00:40:55:06
Reporter: This you can now say.
0575 00:40:55:11 00:40:57:18
Reporter: You can also say:
0576 00:40:57:23 00:41:00:07
Mike Teckandan: Come on.
Reporter: "It's done."
0577 00:41:05:10 00:41:08:19
Mike Tekcandan
will not speak another word about it.
0578 00:41:08:24 00:41:12:06
He has accompanied kickboxer Badr Hari,
bodybuilders ..
0579 00:41:12:11 00:41:17:12
and has been in service
of the Dutch Bodybuilding and Fitness Association.
0584 00:41:37:05 00:41:39:23
Ielja: Maybe it helped that you began talking about doping.
0585 00:41:40:03 00:41:43:13
Ielja: That I simply can not.
Ive pushed harder.
0586 00:41:43:18 00:41:47:19
Reporter: Have you achieved this completely drug-free?
Ielja: Yes, absolutely.
0587 00:41:47:24 00:41:50:08
Ielja: Absolutely. Yes.
0588 00:41:50:13 00:41:53:11
Ielja: No drugs for me. Not required.