| Précis | Just over two decades ago in Ireland a gay man could be jailed for having sex. For centuries the moral authority of the Catholic Church there went unchallenged, its word followed as gospel in people's everyday lives. |
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| So how did Ireland's gay marriage referendum end up with nearly two thirds of voters backing the 'Yes' case? What united enough straights and gays, old and young, city and country folk to upend tradition and call into question the unique role of the Church? |
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| "We came from being so marginalised, it feels like a dream." - Kieran Rose, marriage equality campaigner |
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| As she travels across Ireland, from quiet rural hamlets to flamboyant LGBT marches in Dublin, reporter Sally Sara discovers that slick campaigning by the gay lobby was just part of the reason for the vote. |
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| "There's very little families in Ireland that don't have a gay brother, sister, son, daughter, niece or nephew. Everyone knows someone that's gay." - Jimmy, who's preparing to marry his partner Tony |
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| Families became the most potent weapon for the 'Yes' case - especially feisty mums. |
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| "The ever-loving God that I believe in would say, 'You did the right thing'." - Brighid, 78, 'Yes' campaigner and mother of gay son Padraig |
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| The Church dug in for a 'No' vote. But, as one leading churchman tells Sally Sara, it was caught in a "maelstrom of confusion" with many prominent Catholics taking the 'Yes' side. Its hand was further weakened by historic sex abuse scandals and a growing scepticism among modern Catholics. |
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| "There's a kind of credibility that's diminished by the fact that an institution that's founded on an idea of celibacy is going to put itself forward as an expert on marriage." - Professor Donncha O'Connell, constitutional law expert |
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| Exterior. George Pub. Queues outside | Music | 00:00 |
| Interior of pub. Drag show. Sara watches |
| 00:10 |
| Patrons at drag show | SARA: Dublin’s most famous gay pub, the George, used to be a place of sanctuary. But now, the crowds are celebrating and they want the world to know about it. | 00:35 |
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| Music | 00:47 |
| Person on stage | PERSON ON STAGE OF PUB: “We’re live in Australia right now! Hello Australia!” | 01:04 |
| Patrons cheer | SARA: Ireland is the only country in the world to say yes to same sex marriage in a popular vote. The result has confounded stereotypes and given new found confidence. PERSON ON STAGE OF PUB: “All the way from Ireland | 01:08 |
| Person on stage/ Patrons cheer | that you thought was a backward country… Well we have more progressive laws than you right now”. [patrons of club all cheering] | 01:21 |
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| “On the count of three. One… two… three!” PATRONS: “Get it together, Oz!” | 01:33 |
| Voters cheer/Rainbow flags | Music | 01:42 |
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| SARA: In May this year, more than 1.2 million Irish voters, 62%, voted yes for marriage equality. A referendum was needed, rather than just a vote in parliament, because the definition of marriage is enshrined in the Irish constitution. The result signalled a remarkable shift. The nation which had obeyed the Catholic Church for centuries turned its back on tradition. | 01:46 |
| Pan across landscape | We’re taking a journey across | 02:21 |
| Sara driving | Ireland to find out why the yes vote was successful and what it means for the future of this country. Much of the focus | 02:40 |
| Sara to camera | of the referendum was on Dublin, but out in the countryside is where the campaign was fought village by village, district by district. Many same sex couples in rural Ireland, have been waiting a long time for recognition and acceptance. | 02:50 |
| Exterior. McCann/O’Brien house |
| 03:08 |
| Tony and Jimmy breakfast | Tony McCann and Jimmy O’Brien have been together for 17 years. Jimmy came out as a teenager and spent a long time wondering if he really was the only gay in the village. JIMMY O’BRIEN: “Oh it was very hard | 03:12 |
| Jimmy | because for years it always felt like I was the only, you know, I was the only gay person because it must have been three, four years after, you know, before I actually met another gay person”. | 03:26 |
| Tony and Jimmy breakfast | SARA: Tony only came out a few months ago, not just to tell his family he’s gay, but that he and Jimmy are getting married. | 03:40 |
| Tony | TONY MCCANN: “My mum and dad are getting quite old now and I was very conscious of the fact that… I don’t know… I don’t know whether I would have… would have felt right if they had of died and I hadn’t told them. I don’t think that would have sat right with me at all like, so I kind of said okay, look now they can take a bit of a shock now so let’s tell them now before they get too old to take it like”. | 03:54 |
| Tony and Jimmy walk with dogs | SARA: Jimmy and Tony live a quiet life in County Wexford, south east of Dublin. But only a generation ago, their relationship could have landed them in gaol. Homosexual acts were a criminal offence in Ireland until 1993. It gives you an idea of just how much attitudes have changed. | 04:15 |
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| TONY MCCANN: “Before the referendum went through I was kind of saying well, you know, if this referendum doesn’t pass how can I live in this country? And that was my thinking beforehand, how am I going to… if this doesn’t pass | 04:42 |
| Tony | how am I going to live in this country knowing that most of the population here don’t accept me for who I am or for what I am, you know?” | 04:55 |
| Jimmy | JIMMY O’BRIEN: “Everyone knows someone that’s gay and I think everyone sort of realised that everybody is entitled to happiness. Everyone is entitled to, you know, to be with who they want to be, and I think that’s why it was such a success”. | 05:03 |
| At pub with Tony and Jimmy’s families | SARA: Jimmy and Tony’s families are loyal and loud in their support. They are all getting ready for the wedding in February. | 05:18 |
| Anne-Marie | ANNE MARIE O’BRIEN: “I’m delighted for him. I’m just really over the moon for him like. I can’t wait for the wedding day - especially because I’m bridesmaid”. | 05:34 |
| Sara and Jimmy at bar | JIMMY O’BRIEN: “Usually with Anne-Marie, you can hear her across a packed room. Out of all my family my mammy is the quietest, so she is. | 05:40 |
| Jimmy’s mum | She’s shy and timid, except when you cross her. | 05:48 |
| Sara and Jimmy at bar | I know people say their family are the best, and their sisters and all. I have no brothers, but my sisters are brilliant - they are the best in the world”. | 05:52 |
| At pub with Tony and Jimmy’s families | SARA: Family weddings are a big deal in Ireland; this one will be no different. “How | 06:00 |
| Jimmy’s little sister, Aisling | excited are you about the wedding day?” AISLING O’BRIEN: “Big. Happy wedding day. Me proud of you too”. ANNE MARIE O’BRIEN: “There you go”. | 06:07 |
| Countryside |
| 06:21 |
| Aisling and Cissie at home | SARA: Aisling is the last of Cissie O’Brien’s six kids. The decades of mothering have been tough, but Cissie has always loved her children for who they are, not what other people judge them to be. “When did you first realise that Jimmy might be gay?” | 06:24 |
| Cissie and Aisling | CISSIE O’BRIEN: “I remember turning around to him and saying, Jimmy are you gay? And he said, yes mammy, I am. And I said, well thanks be to God. I’ll die happy now. That’s what I said”. SARA: “Because you knew?” | 06:44 |
| Photos. Jimmy as child | CISSIE O’BRIEN: “Yeah, yeah. No, I wasn’t surprised at all, so I wasn’t, no”. SARA: “How much do you love your son?” | 06:59 |
| Cissie and Aisling | CISSIE O’BRIEN: “I absolutely adore him, so I do. Absolutely adore him, so I do now. He’s brilliant… so he is, I have to say”. | 07:06 |
| Religious cards and photos in hallway | SARA: Just a few years ago, the Catholic Church was like a member of the family. Some local priests felt entitled to direct the lives of parishioners. The hallmarks of that time are still here but the obedience has gone. CISSIE O’BRIEN: “I’m divorced now | 07:14 |
| Cissie and Aisling | and if I go into the chapel, I cannot receive Holy Communion. I have to do this sign… that I’m divorced. And I think the Catholic Church now shouldn’t have any say in whether a person is gay or whatever now, after all the abuse that went on in it”. | 07:33 |
| Enniscorthy Catholic Church GVs | Music | 07:51 |
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| SARA: The Catholic Church has towered over the local village of Enniscorthy for hundreds of years but its influence has been weakened by sexual abuse scandals and changing times. The marriage equality referendum put that to the test. | 08:03 |
| Sara to camera outside church | Saturday night, shortly before the vote, the local priest read out a letter from the bishop, urging people to vote no. The response was swift and clear. Several parishioners got up and walked out of the cathedral, including members of the choir. | 08:20 |
| Enniscorthy Catholic Church GVs | JIMMY O’BRIEN: “I think there was a lot of people afterwards spoke about it and said oh that was terrible what, you know, the bishops did | 08:36 |
| Jimmy | but I think, you know, if more people had of been brave like those people and got up and walked out and said no, no you’re wrong, this is nothing to do with the church. It’s... you know, I think if more people have of got up and walked out, I would have shook their hands”. | 08:46 |
| Tony | TONY MCCANN: “I do believe though, I do believe that the church has a place here in Ireland. I, I really do believe that. We realistically here in Ireland have an awful lot to be thankful to the Catholic Church for, like I mean schools, hospitals. If it hadn’t of been for the Catholic Church we wouldn’t have any of those. You know they wouldn’t be as good as they are like, you know. They are wrong on some issues but not... not all, you know”. | 09:01 |
| Tony and Jimmy prepare for gay pride march |
| 09:21 |
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| SARA: The ‘Yes’ campaign won in Enniscorthy. Now, Jimmy and Tony are taking the chance to celebrate. They are on their way to the annual gay pride march in Dublin, for the very first time. | 09:33 |
| Tony and Jimmy in Dublin at march | Music | 09:48 |
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| SARA: It’s a whole new world for Jimmy and Tony, a long awaited chance to put their love on show. TONY MCCANN: “Life has changed, really, really an awful lot. To be actually here and be | 09:59 |
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| able to hold his hand, put my arm around him, that’s fine. That’s not a problem and as I’ve said before, if someone has a problem, it’s theirs, not mine. So, it’s great”. SARA: “But it’s pretty different to a quiet Saturday down in Wexford, hey? JIMMY O’BRIEN: “It is. It’s a bit different, it’s not what we would normally get up to on a Saturday, yes”. | 10:13 |
| Gay pride march GVs | Music | 10:32 |
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| SARA: What began as a small march for gay rights in 1983, has grown from a demonstration to a celebration. | 10:46 |
| Sara to camera at parade | This is the first gay pride parade in Dublin since the referendum result. Gay and straight people have turned out in their thousands. This is the largest gathering of its kind on record. It’s not only a celebration for those who supported the ‘Yes’ vote, but it’s an effort to build up the momentum and keep the change going in Ireland. | 11:00 |
| Gay pride march GVs | Music | 11:20 |
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| SARA: The parade winds its way through working class neighbourhoods – which delivered some of the highest ‘Yes’ votes in the country, but years ago, this was hostile ground. KIERAN ROSE: “In the space | 11:26 |
| Kieran. Super: | of my lifetime, Ireland has been transformed and the situation for lesbians and gay men has been utterly, utterly transformed and it’s so fantastic”. SARA: “What’s the feeling in your heart today?” KIERAN ROSE: “Delight. And a certain element of wonderment almost | 11:44 |
| Parade | that it’s like a dream... because we came from being so marginalised and even though we knew... well, we hoped we could make progress, to make this amount of progress is just… sometimes it’s hard to believe, it feels like a dream”. | 12:01 |
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| Music | 12:20 |
| Rose garden |
| 12:32 |
| St Patrick’s College | SARA: This is one of the most important places for the Catholic Church in Ireland. Priests have been trained at St Patrick’s college Maynooth, for centuries. But now, few young Irish men want to enrol here. FATHER VINCENT TWOMEY: [Professor, St Patrick’s College] “I find myself the younger generation are much more open than you might imagine, just that they haven’t heard | 12:39 |
| Father Vincent. Super: | the message, they haven’t heard the truth and when one has the courage to speak to the people about what is of course the beauty of the Christian vision of sexuality and marriage, you know, then of… and chastity... then of course people’s eyes open and say my goodness we never realised this”. | 13:00 |
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| SARA: “Why do you think same sex marriage is wrong?” | 13:21 |
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| FATHER VINCENT TWOMEY: “Because marriage is between man and woman”. SARA: “Because of tradition?” FATHER VINCENT TWOMEY: “Not tradition, it’s nature, human nature, yeah. Since the beginning of time there have been many kinds of marriage, polygamy, monogamy and, you know, one man with many women and all the rest of it, but it’s … there’s never been marriage, it was never considered to be between people of the same sex”. | 13:24 |
| Archival. Catholic Church | Music | 13:48 |
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| SARA: At its peak, the church’s authority was almost unquestioned, but as the years moved on, horrific stories emerged of sexual abuse and cruelty perpetrated by the clergy. Many here believe it was a turning point in the relationship between the church and the people. | 13:56 |
| Gaffney. Super: | MAUREEN GAFFNEY: “Bit by bit we were discovering the most awful truths about Ireland. We were discovering that all of the pious rhetoric since the foundation of the state, about, you know, holy Catholic pious Ireland, was actually covering a kind of a hellish Ireland. | 14:20 |
| Archival. Dublin | I think an awful lot of people resolved that whatever it took, we were never going to visit that kind of suffering and torment on people again | 14:44 |
| Gaffney | and that we needed to, as it were, make whatever changes were necessary to our laws | 14:56 |
| Dublin GVs | and policies”. | 15:02 |
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| Music | 15:04 |
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| SARA: Today, 84 per cent of people in Ireland identify as Catholic, but in the past 20 years, the number of people attending weekly mass has dropped by half to only 41 per cent. So when the referendum came along in May, the church knew it had limited influence. FATHER VINCENT TWOMEY: “Bishops didn’t go on radio or television, | 15:12 |
| Father Vincent | didn’t engage in the public debate; I think that was right, yeah. So I think the government would have liked to have seen it as a church--state clash - and it’s been presented since then as though it were - it’s not”. | 15:37 |
| St Patrick’s College | SARA: The church was late into the debate, and claims it couldn’t compete with the reach of the yes campaign. FATHER VINCENT TWOMEY: “You know, | 15:52 |
| Father Vincent | it was David against Goliath. In this case, Goliath unfortunately won”. | 16:01 |
| Social media campaign | SOCIAL MEDIA CAMPAIGN: Go out and vote, that’s the important thing. Go out and vote. | 16:04 |
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| SARA: The ‘Yes’ campaign was cashed up thanks to multi-million dollar donations from the United States and closer to home. They used those resources to launch a highly successful social media strategy, that humanised their cause. | 16:08 |
| ‘No’ campaign video | The campaign was rough at times. Prominent psychologist Maureen Gaffney was accused of comparing no voters to Nazis. | 16:38 |
| Gaffney interview | “During the campaign you received a lot of criticism for your comments talking about exclusion from marriage in places like apartheid South Africa and also Nazi Germany. Do you stand by those comments?” | 16:49 |
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| MAUREEN GAFFNEY: “Well, the comments that I made were in the context of showing that excluding certain classes of people from marriage for whatever reason, is historically a way of oppressing people. It’s a way of saying that there’s a superior caste and inferior caste and that they can’t, as it were, get together - and I totally stand by that. It’s kind of silly even saying I stand by it because it’s a historical fact”. | 17:02 |
| Father Vincent. Super: | FATHER VINCENT TWOMEY: “The gay rights lobby have actually introduced an ideology that needs to be questioned and people have got to stand up and be counted. I think courage is needed against what is a massive international campaign to have these rights - so called rights - you know, enshrined in legislation”. | 17:42 |
| Pro Life march |
| 18:06 |
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| SARA: Exactly a week after the gay pride march, conservative campaigners have taken to the very same streets. This is the other side of the debate about marriage, children and family. KEITH MILLS: [‘No’ Campaigner] “We were the first country to vote | 18:15 |
| Mills. Super: | by a public vote to redefine marriage, but we’re also the only country in the world now to have same sex marriage in the Constitution and all our laws flow from the Constitution. So things like surrogacy, adoption rights and all the rest of it get totally redefined because the family got redefined as part of this, and I thought whilst we need to have same sex relationships recognised and put on an equal status and that can be done through civil partnerships of which I campaigned for, we do not need to redefine marriage”. | 18:36 |
| Pro Life rally | SARA: Keith Mills has been a vocal campaigner for the ‘No’ side. He doesn’t see any need for gay marriage in Ireland, even though he is gay. | 19:04 |
| Mills ‘No’ YouTube ad | KEITH MILLS YOUTUBE: I’m a gay man and on May 22nd I’ll be voting no to same sex marriage, because I believe children deserve a mother and a father where possible. “This idea of a gay community all believing the same thing is | 19:18 |
| Mills | very simplistic. The only thing that gay people have in common is their sexual orientation. They come from all kinds of backgrounds. They come from all kinds of strata in society. There are religious, non-religious, rural, you know, so the idea that they would all think the same and have the same opinion is ridiculous”. | 19:31 |
| Mills ‘No’ YouTube ad | SARA: Keith Mills’ campaign video went viral and had more than 800-thousand views on YouTube. | 19:49 |
| Mills | KEITH MILLS: “I felt a little uncomfortable with the way the Yes side played the, what I call the ‘pity the poor gay’ scenario. You know, oh, we’re a poor marginalised minority and our mental wellbeing is in danger. And I’m going, you know, this is a country with equality at every level. We have gay ministers in the government and high court judges… you know, business leaders… you know every strata of society, sports men and women, all the role models that you’d ever want there are gay out and proud people. So this playing the ‘pity the poor gay’ didn’t ring nicely with me I have to say, I thought it was a bit far-fetched”. | 20:00 |
| Rural GVs | Music | 20:38 |
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| SARA: But, in the end the ‘Yes’ campaign won - | 20:45 |
| Brighid in kitchen/ Paddy in shed | capitalising on that most Irish of institutions, the family, and along the way creating some unlikely viral video stars. | 20:48 |
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| Paddy Whyte is a devout Catholic. He and his wife Brighid have been married for 50 years.
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| BRIGHID WHYTE: “Our voices, you see, weren’t being heard, the older | 21:09 |
| Brighid and Paddy | people like weren’t being heard so we were very happy to get on board”. | 21:13 |
| Brighid and Paddy YouTube | BRIGHID YOUTUBE AD: Hello. I’m Brighid… PADDY YOUTUBE AD: And I’m Paddy. We are voting for equal marriage. We hope you will vote with us. SARA: “Have you been surprised by the reaction to your video?” | 21:18 |
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| BRIGHID WHYTE: “Oh yes, overwhelmed would be the… overwhelmed would be the word really”. | 21:32 |
| Brighid and Paddy YouTube | PADDY YOUTUBE AD: 20 years ago I probably would have voted no, but now that I know gay people and see the love and joy they can bring to life, I will be voting yes. | 21:38 |
| Brighid in kitchen | BRIGHID WHYTE: “Well somebody said well I don’t know any gay people... people will say like.. | 21:51 |
| Brighid and Paddy | but I don’t know any gay people. But you probably know lots of gay people, but you don’t know . . .”. PADDY WHYTE: “Now”. BRIGHID WHYTE: “No even before... you don’t know that they’re gay”. PADDY WHYTE: “Yeah”. BRIGHID WHYTE: “And they’re no different from anybody else, good Lord, no different at all”. | 21:59 |
| Whyte family photos | Music | 22:15 |
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| SARA: So tell me about these photos here, Paddy and Brighid? | 22:18 |
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| Paddy and Brighid have five children... [to Paddy and Brighid] “Wow, okay, you’ve got a tribe there, haven’t you?” Four are married, but their gay son Padraig is not. They wanted to make sure that he had equal rights. BRIGHID WHYTE: “As a mother | 22:24 |
| Brighid and Paddy | it was hurtful in a way, you know, it was hurtful that there was this one person now who wasn’t equal to the others and thankfully now that’s all put right with the ‘Yes’ vote”. | 22:48 |
| Padraig with Brighid, Paddy and Sara at tea | SARA: Their son Padraig is grateful for their support. | 23:0: |
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| BRIG WHYTE: “I think it’s more Christian to have a bit of compassion and love for your | 23:28 |
| Brighid and Paddy | gay community, gay children. Nobody knows when they’re going to have somebody belonging to them will come out and say ‘I’m gay’. What are they going to do… are they going to say ‘I don’t want anything to do with you?’ We were blessed, we were blessed that we just... our love for our Padraig was unconditional - is unconditional.”
| 23:34 |
| Padraig with Brighid, Paddy and Sara at tea | PADDY WHYTE: “Well, I have absolutely no trouble with the Church, I’m still a good Catholic and I would say maybe I’m a | 23:59 |
| Brighid and Paddy | better Catholic than I was… really”. | 24:06 |
| Archival. Catholic parade/ Gay pride march | Music | 24:10 |
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| MAUREEN GAFFNEY: “I think Ireland is so small and so intimate that you can almost see a social change as it were, sweeping over the country. We can see our | 24:14 |
| Gaffney | big picture ‘cause it’s such a small picture really”. | 24:28 |
| Jimmy and Tony at beach | SARA: Jimmy and Tony are counting down the months until their wedding in February. Their engagement has brought them closer together. TONY MCCANN: “I love the way, the way he kind of fits, | 24:32 |
| Tony | you know, he fits in my life, he fits with me - we fit together, you know. | 24:50 |
| Tony and Jimmy on beach | And since we’ve become engaged, and I tell him I love him more often, you know. And that’s, that’s kind of changed | 24:57 |
| Tony | and I can see the change you know and he tells me he loves often enough as well”. | 25:06 |
| Tony and Jimmy on beach | SARA: The marriage equality referendum has changed perceptions of Ireland – both inside and out. | 25:10 |
| Jimmy | JIMMY O’BRIEN: “We’re not a backward little country that we used to be 20 years ago. | 25:21 |
| Tony and Jimmy on beach | It’ll change the lives of thousands of gays and lesbian people out there for the better. I think people | 25:25 |
| Jimmy | shouldn’t be afraid to let other people be happy”. | 25:34 |
| Tony and Jimmy on beach | Music | 25:36 |
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| Reporter: Sally Sara Camera: Brant Cumming Editor: Scott Monro Research: Roisin Boyd Producer: Bronwen Reed Executive producer: Marianne Leitch © 2015 www.abc.net.au/foreign | 25:59 |