01:15:16,840 --> 01:15:20,160 LOUD RECORDING PLAYS 01:15:20,200 --> 01:15:22,760 CHIRPING EFFECTS 01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,520 HORSES WHINNYING 01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,960 BARKING EFFECTS 01:15:37,640 --> 01:15:41,360 DAY SEVEN FINDS REPORTERS FACING A BANNER READING, 01:15:41,400 --> 01:15:43,480 "GOD HELP US, WE WANT THE PRESS." 01:15:43,520 --> 01:15:46,360 REPORTERS RESPOND WITH A STATEMENT OF THEIR OWN. 01:15:46,400 --> 01:15:49,560 GOD HELP US, WE ARE THE PRESS! 01:15:49,920 --> 01:15:51,000 I WAS WONDERING, IS THERE ANY WAY 01:15:51,000 --> 01:15:52,200 OF GETTING SOME LEAFLETS 01:15:52,200 --> 01:15:53,200 DOWN TO THE MEDIA? 01:15:53,200 --> 01:15:55,680 - BILL LATHAM DROVE FROM DALLAS, FORT WORTH 01:15:55,720 --> 01:15:58,200 TO VOLUNTEER THE SERVICES OF THE KU KLUX KLAN. 01:15:58,440 --> 01:16:00,040 WE'RE JUST TIRED. WE'VE BEEN WATCHING THIS 01:16:00,080 --> 01:16:01,880 FROM UP THERE IN FORT WORTH AND DALLAS 01:16:01,920 --> 01:16:03,560 AND WE'RE JUST TIRED 01:16:03,560 --> 01:16:05,240 OF WATCHING IT DRAG ON LIKE THIS. 01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:08,600 GIVE THEM AN ULTIMATUM. GIVE THEM A DEADLINE. 01:16:08,880 --> 01:16:12,360 - WHEN I FIRST WAS ASKED TO BE INVOLVED 01:16:12,400 --> 01:16:14,640 AS A MEMBER OF THE PANEL, 01:16:14,680 --> 01:16:17,000 I THOUGHT THE MAIN PROBLEM WAS GOING TO BE 01:16:17,040 --> 01:16:19,720 UNDERSTANDING THE PSYCHOLOGY 01:16:19,760 --> 01:16:22,520 OF THE PEOPLE INSIDE THE COMPOUND. 01:16:22,560 --> 01:16:26,520 BUT AS I GOT INTO IT, I QUICKLY BECAME AWARE 01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,440 THE PSYCHOLOGY OF THE PEOPLE OUTSIDE THE COMPOUND 01:16:30,480 --> 01:16:32,640 WAS MORE IMPORTANT 01:16:32,680 --> 01:16:35,240 TO AN UNDERSTANDING OF WHAT HAPPENED. 01:16:35,400 --> 01:16:37,840 THEY WERE MOONING THE WOMEN, FOR INSTANCE. 01:16:37,840 --> 01:16:39,320 THEY WOULD DROP THEIR PANTS 01:16:39,360 --> 01:16:42,640 BEND OVER AND BARE THEIR REAR END 01:16:42,520 --> 01:16:45,160 TO PEOPLE THAT WERE LOOKING OUT THE WINDOWS. 01:16:45,200 --> 01:16:48,640 WHICH WAS, YOU KNOW, NOT A SITUATION 01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,440 THAT SOME OF THE WOMEN OR EVEN SOME OF THE MEN 01:16:51,440 --> 01:16:52,760 TOOK TOO LIGHTLY, IN THE SENSE, 01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:54,320 "DO WE WANT TO SEND OUR CHILDREN OUT 01:16:54,360 --> 01:16:55,800 TO THESE KIND OF PEOPLE?" 01:17:38,800 --> 01:17:42,000 LET ME GIVE YOU AN EXAMPLE NOW THAT WE'VE BROUGHT THIS UP. 01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:43,800 WE HAD A BURIAL 01:17:43,840 --> 01:17:45,960 FOR ONE OF THE PEOPLE OUT FRONT. 01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:49,200 PETER GENT WAS BURIED OUT FRONT. 01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,840 AND THE TANKS RAN OVER HIS GRAVE 01:17:51,880 --> 01:17:54,360 OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN. 01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:56,040 JUST TOTALLY, LIKE IT WASN'T EVEN THERE. 01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:57,920 AND THEY KNEW THAT'S WHERE WE BURIED HIM. 01:17:57,920 --> 01:18:00,120 THEY JUST KEPT RUNNING OVER IT AND OVER IT. 01:18:00,160 --> 01:18:02,320 AND WE WERE DISGUSTED WITH THAT. 01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:03,800 WE TALKED ABOUT THAT QUITE A BIT. 01:18:04,400 --> 01:18:06,920 - I thought this was the country 01:18:06,960 --> 01:18:10,880 of freedom of speech, freedom of religion, whatever, 01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:14,680 and... just human decency. 01:18:14,720 --> 01:18:17,440 If it still exists. 01:18:18,760 --> 01:18:21,720 - THEY SAW ALL THIS AS WORKING 01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:23,600 FROM A MILITARY POINT OF VIEW, 01:18:23,640 --> 01:18:27,400 BECAUSE THE PEOPLE INSIDE THE COMPOUND, 01:18:27,440 --> 01:18:30,720 THE BRANCH DAVIDIANS, WEREN'T SHOOTING BACK. 01:18:30,760 --> 01:18:33,120 SO THEY SAW THEMSELVES AS WINNING THE BATTLE 01:18:33,160 --> 01:18:35,000 AS THEY TIGHTENED IT. 01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:37,640 WHAT THEY DIDN'T REALIZE WAS 01:18:37,680 --> 01:18:39,800 WE ARE DRIVING THEM 01:18:39,800 --> 01:18:42,440 TO THE POINT OF DESPERATION. 01:18:46,120 --> 01:18:48,760 - To my family and friends I'd just like to say 01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:49,760 I'm fine. 01:18:49,800 --> 01:18:52,480 I know you're all worried about us. 01:18:52,520 --> 01:18:55,360 I'd just like you to know that we are fine right now, 01:18:55,400 --> 01:18:59,400 and everything's in the hands of God right now, 01:18:59,440 --> 01:19:01,480 and we're just waiting on God. 01:19:01,520 --> 01:19:03,640 Whatever happens, we know 01:19:03,680 --> 01:19:07,280 it's the way that God wants it to be. 01:19:08,120 --> 01:19:09,920 - IF THEY THOUGHT THAT WE WERE ALL BRAINWASHED 01:19:09,960 --> 01:19:13,560 AND SUCH A BUNCH OF CRAZIES, 01:19:13,600 --> 01:19:17,360 WHY WOULD THE FBI 01:19:17,400 --> 01:19:19,680 PUSH DAVID OR THE REST OF US TO THE LIMIT? 01:19:19,720 --> 01:19:21,680 DID THEY WANT TO CREATE AN INCIDENT? 01:19:21,720 --> 01:19:24,520 DID THEY WANT US TO COME OUT, YOU KNOW, 01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:26,160 CRAZY, AND START SHOOTING 01:19:26,200 --> 01:19:27,920 SO THEY'D HAVE AN EXCUSE TO GUN US DOWN? 01:19:27,960 --> 01:19:28,960 WE DIDN'T KNOW. 01:19:53,880 --> 01:19:56,080 AT ONE POINT THE FBI ASKED THEM, 01:19:56,120 --> 01:19:58,200 "DO THEY HAVE FIRE EXTINGUISHERS?" 01:19:58,240 --> 01:20:00,720 AND SCHNEIDER SENDS SOMEONE TO CHECK 01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:03,400 AND COMES BACK WITH A REPORT THAT THERE'S ONLY ONE 01:20:03,440 --> 01:20:05,760 FIRE EXTINGUISHER IN THE BUILDING. 01:20:05,800 --> 01:20:08,640 THE FBI NEGOTIATOR'S RESPONSE IS, 01:20:08,680 --> 01:20:11,440 "SOMEBODY OUGHT TO BUY SOME FIRE INSURANCE." 01:20:11,960 --> 01:20:16,280 - THE QUESTION "'WILL WE PERMIT A POOL CAMERA UP CLOSE?" 01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:19,160 WE WENT DOWN THE ROAD. WE STOPPED AT A PLACE 01:20:19,200 --> 01:20:20,920 WHERE YOU COULD STILL SEE THE COMPOUND. 01:20:20,960 --> 01:20:22,680 THAT WAS NOT ACCIDENTAL. 01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,680 WE MADE SURE YOU COULD STILL SEE THE COMPOUND. 01:20:25,720 --> 01:20:27,640 WE COULD'VE MOVED YOU WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE ANY SIGHT. 01:20:27,680 --> 01:20:29,120 WE DIDN'T DO THAT. 01:20:29,160 --> 01:20:31,440 THE REASON WE DON'T WANT A CAMERA THERE 01:20:31,480 --> 01:20:34,480 IS THEY WATCH TELEVISION AND THEY WATCH US APPROACH 01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:35,880 IF WE DO ANYTHING, 01:20:35,920 --> 01:20:37,960 WE'RE NOT GOING TO ASSAULT THE PLACE, 01:20:38,000 --> 01:20:39,920 BUT ANYTHING WE DO AROUND THERE TO GET CONTROL, 01:20:39,960 --> 01:20:43,520 THAT IS PRECISELY WHY YOU CAN'T HAVE A CAMERA THERE. 01:20:43,560 --> 01:20:44,760 OKAY? 01:20:45,240 --> 01:20:47,920 - IN WACO, WHERE THEY'RE WEARY OF THE STANDOFF, 01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:50,920 DJ J.R. IS GIVING RESIDENTS A LIFT 01:20:50,960 --> 01:20:54,000 BY ACTUALLY DOING WHAT THE FBI ONLY JOKED ABOUT. 01:20:54,040 --> 01:20:55,640 - ONE PERSON WAS RECOMMENDING 01:20:55,680 --> 01:20:56,760 WE PLAY 01:20:56,760 --> 01:20:58,560 "ACHY-BREAKY HEART" CONTINUOUSLY. 01:20:58,680 --> 01:21:01,200 "ACHY-BREAKY HEART" PLAYING 01:21:01,600 --> 01:21:03,640 IT'S LIKE A BIG CARNIVAL REALLY, 01:21:03,680 --> 01:21:06,240 OUT HERE WITH ALL THE T-SHIRTS AND STUFF. 01:21:06,640 --> 01:21:09,160 - YOU SEE THAT HOUSE OVER YONDER? 01:21:09,200 --> 01:21:10,280 DO YOU? 01:21:13,120 --> 01:21:14,960 Hello from Waco! 01:21:15,400 --> 01:21:17,400 ...MY ACHY-BREAKY HEART 01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:20,440 HE MIGHT BLOW UP AND KILL THIS MAN 01:21:20,440 --> 01:21:21,760 OOH... 01:21:22,080 --> 01:21:24,240 - ALLEGATIONS ARE FLYING THAT ALL OF THIS 01:21:24,280 --> 01:21:26,120 MAY HAVE BEEN AVOIDED TWO YEARS AGO. 01:21:26,160 --> 01:21:28,640 THE FBI RECEIVED COMPLAINTS ABOUT THE COMPOUND 01:21:28,680 --> 01:21:30,640 AND DID NOT PURSUE THEM AGGRESSIVELY. 01:21:30,680 --> 01:21:33,040 IT'S THAT MATTER, AND OTHERS, THAT HAVE CAUSED 01:21:33,080 --> 01:21:34,360 SEVERAL NEAR-FIGHTS, 01:21:34,400 --> 01:21:36,200 PUSHING AND SHOVING, THAT SORT OF THING. 01:21:36,240 --> 01:21:39,320 THE SOURCE SAYS THE FBI HAS ISOLATED ATF, 01:21:39,360 --> 01:21:41,480 "WE'RE TAKING A BACK SEAT." 01:21:48,520 --> 01:21:51,960 - EVERYONE IN MT. CARMEL WAS FREE TO LEAVE, 01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,840 THOUGH THEOLOGICALLY, THE SITUATION IS COMPLEX. 01:21:54,880 --> 01:21:58,240 YES, YOU'RE FREE TO JUMP OUT OF NOAH'S ARK 01:21:58,280 --> 01:22:01,920 AND ONTO THE LAND THAT'S FIXING TO BE FLOODED. 01:22:01,960 --> 01:22:04,360 BUT EVERYONE WAS FREE TO LEAVE. 01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:06,160 SOME DID. 01:22:08,400 --> 01:22:10,280 ANYONE COULD'VE LEFT, 01:22:10,320 --> 01:22:12,840 BUT THEOLOGICALLY, IT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA. 01:22:12,880 --> 01:22:15,920 YOU WERE RISKING YOUR SOUL IF YOU LEFT. 01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:23,880 - WHAT WE SAW OF THOSE THAT DID COME OUT 01:22:23,920 --> 01:22:26,960 WERE THEY WERE BEING SENT 01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,600 TO JAIL, THE ADULTS, 01:22:29,640 --> 01:22:32,400 EVEN ELDERLY WOMEN IN THEIR 70S 01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,880 WERE BEING ACTUALLY INDICTED FOR MURDER 01:22:35,920 --> 01:22:36,960 OR CHARGED WITH, 01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,240 - THIS WAS, WHAT YOU WERE TOLD THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED 01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:40,960 WHEN PEOPLE CAME OUT? 01:22:40,960 --> 01:22:42,640 WE SAW IT AND HEARD IT ON THE NEWS. 01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:43,680 -I SEE. 01:23:40,000 --> 01:23:43,640 - WE HAVE A WOMAN WHO BELIEVES IN HER HEART AND SOUL 01:23:43,680 --> 01:23:46,040 THAT SHE CAN GET HER GRANDSON 01:23:46,080 --> 01:23:49,240 TO LAY DOWN HIS ARMS AND COME OUT. 01:23:49,280 --> 01:23:52,040 - I'M HIS GRANDMOTHER AND HE'S MY GRANDSON. 01:23:52,080 --> 01:23:53,800 ALL MY GRANDCHILDREN ARE GOOD KIDS 01:23:53,840 --> 01:23:56,280 'CAUSE I'VE TAUGHT THEM WELL. 01:23:59,520 --> 01:24:02,920 - AND SO I APPROACHED AND TOLD THEM I WAS THERE 01:24:02,960 --> 01:24:05,120 AND I'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO THE AGENT IN CHARGE. 01:24:05,160 --> 01:24:06,240 I WAS A LAWYER 01:24:06,280 --> 01:24:08,880 AND I HAD DAVID KORESH'S GRANDMOTHER WITH ME 01:24:08,880 --> 01:24:13,160 AND I WANTED TO SEE ABOUT TALKING TO HIM. 01:24:13,160 --> 01:24:15,320 AND... 01:24:15,360 --> 01:24:17,560 AFTER A FEW MINUTES, ANOTHER ONE CAME UP TO ME 01:24:17,600 --> 01:24:19,400 WHO WAS OBVIOUSLY THE GUY IN CHARGE 01:24:19,440 --> 01:24:22,240 AND WAS VERY SURLY. 01:24:22,280 --> 01:24:25,280 HE DECLINED TO GIVE ME ANY INFORMATION AT ALL. 01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:29,120 SO I STARTED TO LEAVE, AND JUST AS I LEFT 01:24:29,160 --> 01:24:30,280 AND TURNED MY BACK 01:24:30,280 --> 01:24:32,600 AND STARTED WALKING TOWARD MY VAN, 01:24:33,240 --> 01:24:35,840 I HEARD A VOICE SAY, 01:24:35,880 --> 01:24:38,240 COMING FROM ONE OF THOSE PEOPLE, 01:24:38,280 --> 01:24:41,120 I DON'T KNOW WHICH ONE, BUT ONE OF THEM SAID, 01:24:41,160 --> 01:24:45,960 "I HOPE SHE HAS TOLD HIM GOODBYE." 01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:48,320 THAT WAS THE MENTALITY 01:24:48,360 --> 01:24:51,240 OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE GUARDING THE GATES. 01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,520 THOSE WERE FEDERAL LAW ENFORCEMENT... 01:24:54,560 --> 01:24:56,600 AUTHORITIES. 01:24:56,640 --> 01:24:59,320 AND THEIR ATTITUDE WAS, 01:24:59,360 --> 01:25:01,920 WE ARE GOING TO GET REVENGE 01:25:01,960 --> 01:25:04,160 AGAINST DAVID KORESH. 01:25:04,160 --> 01:25:05,120 AND IF THAT MEANS 01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:07,200 WE HAVE TO ELIMINATE ALL OF THEM IN THERE, 01:25:07,240 --> 01:25:08,880 THAT'S JUST FINE TOO. 01:25:08,920 --> 01:25:11,160 THAT WAS THE ATTITUDE THAT THEY HAD. 01:25:11,680 --> 01:25:13,880 - ON A SPECIAL LIVE CALL-IN SHOW HERE THIS MORNING, 01:25:13,920 --> 01:25:16,360 LISTENERS HAD STRONG OPINIONS ON HOW THEY THINK 01:25:16,320 --> 01:25:18,320 THIS TRAGEDY SHOULD NOW BE HANDLED. 01:25:18,360 --> 01:25:20,120 A MAJORITY SEEM TO WANT LAW ENFORCEMENT 01:25:20,120 --> 01:25:22,080 TO END IT ALL QUICKLY. 01:25:22,120 --> 01:25:23,680 GOOD MORNING, WACO 100. 01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:27,880 - I vote for goin' in and just take him out. 01:25:27,920 --> 01:25:30,640 - I think they ought to go in there and get it over with, 01:25:30,680 --> 01:25:32,520 because I think it's costing us... 01:25:32,880 --> 01:25:35,400 - WHAT COULD HAVE BEEN DONE TO GET THE DAVIDIANS 01:25:35,440 --> 01:25:38,160 OUT OF THAT COMPOUND WITHOUT BLOODSHED? 01:25:39,760 --> 01:25:41,920 WE WERE ON THE WAY TO DOING THAT. 01:25:41,960 --> 01:25:44,240 ON APRIL THE 14th 01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:46,240 THERE WAS A MAJOR BREAKTHROUGH. 01:25:46,280 --> 01:25:50,600 THAT BREAKTHROUGH WAS DAVID KORESH'S LETTER TO ME, 01:25:50,600 --> 01:25:53,440 WHICH I PROMPTLY GAVE TO THE FBI, 01:25:53,480 --> 01:25:57,040 THAT SAID THAT HE'D RECEIVED HIS MISSION. 01:25:57,080 --> 01:25:58,000 THAT HE WAS 01:25:58,040 --> 01:26:00,560 WORKING ON WRITING HIS INTERPRETATION 01:26:00,600 --> 01:26:01,960 OF THE SEVEN SEALS, 01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:03,760 AND THAT EVERYONE INSIDE 01:26:03,800 --> 01:26:05,360 WAS RELIEVED 01:26:05,400 --> 01:26:07,560 THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO DIE NOW. 01:26:07,560 --> 01:26:10,160 THAT THE PROPHECIES WERE NOT BEING FULFILLED NOW 01:26:10,200 --> 01:26:12,360 AND THAT THIS WOULD BE RESOLVED. 01:26:12,600 --> 01:26:15,400 - PEOPLE DON'T UNDERSTAND HOW IMPORTANT THAT WAS. 01:26:15,400 --> 01:26:18,920 DAVID KORESH AND HIS PEOPLE BELIEVED THAT GOD'S MESSAGE 01:26:18,920 --> 01:26:20,840 FOR OUR GENERATION 01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:24,240 COULD NOT BE WRITTEN AND SHOULD NOT BE WRITTEN. 01:26:24,280 --> 01:26:27,120 DAVID KORESH HAD NEVER BEFORE 01:26:27,120 --> 01:26:30,040 WRITTEN DOWN HIS IDEAS. 01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:33,120 HE BELIEVED THAT HE HAD RECEIVED A MESSAGE FROM GOD 01:26:33,160 --> 01:26:35,720 SAYING, "NOW, DAVID, WRITE. 01:26:35,760 --> 01:26:37,840 BEFORE, I TOLD YOU NOT TO, 01:26:37,840 --> 01:26:40,000 NOW I'M TELLING YOU YOU CAN." 01:26:40,040 --> 01:26:41,880 HE WAITED 51 DAYS 01:26:41,920 --> 01:26:43,920 AND THEN HE SAID THE WORD CAME TO HIM 01:26:43,960 --> 01:26:47,160 AND SAID, "WRITE." AND HE WROTE. 01:26:47,200 --> 01:26:48,920 THIS WAS BROUGHT OUT THE DAY OF THE FIRE 01:26:48,960 --> 01:26:50,560 BY ONE OF THE SURVIVORS. 01:26:50,600 --> 01:26:53,480 HE WAS KEEPING HIS PROMISE OF APRIL 14TH. 01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:56,760 WE BELIEVE THEY WOULD'VE ALL COME OUT SAFELY. 01:26:57,640 --> 01:27:00,280 THIS WAS PULLED OUT OF THE FIRE, 01:27:00,320 --> 01:27:03,240 THE TAPES WERE, AND THEN 01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,640 THIS THEN WAS WRITTEN UP 01:27:05,680 --> 01:27:07,480 AS EVIDENCE THAT HE WAS WORKING 01:27:07,480 --> 01:27:10,280 ON THAT MESSAGE ON THE SEVEN SEALS. 01:27:11,080 --> 01:27:13,000 - ALL THEY HAD TO DO WAS SAY, "WE'VE GOT A DISK, 01:27:13,040 --> 01:27:14,440 WE'RE GOING TO BE SENDING IT OUT." 01:27:15,640 --> 01:27:18,280 - WHEN THE FBI ADVISED ME OF THEIR PLAN 01:27:18,320 --> 01:27:21,240 AND THE POSSIBILITY OF THE INSERTION OF GAS, 01:27:21,280 --> 01:27:24,040 I DID NOTIFY THE WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL. 01:27:24,080 --> 01:27:27,640 I KEPT IN CONTACT THROUGH THE WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL. 01:27:27,640 --> 01:27:28,480 I AM SURE 01:27:28,480 --> 01:27:30,200 THE WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL ADVISED THE PRESIDENT. 01:27:30,240 --> 01:27:32,000 - WE'RE MISSING SOME OF YOUR TELEPHONE LOGS, 01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:35,400 PARTICULARLY APRIL 17TH, 18TH, AND 19TH. 01:27:35,440 --> 01:27:39,240 OUR PROBLEM IS THEY'VE ALL BEEN REDACTED. 01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:41,840 IS THERE ANY CHANCE WE COULD GET THOSE? 01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:44,880 I CAN BE HELPFUL. NOBODY'S EVER ASKED ME, 01:27:44,880 --> 01:27:48,360 BUT I HAVE A COPY OF THESE SAME LOGS 01:27:48,400 --> 01:27:52,080 AND YOU'RE WELCOME TO THEM AS FAR AS I'M CONCERNED, 01:27:52,120 --> 01:27:56,160 EXCEPT, I HAVE TO TELL YOU, THE 17TH AND 18TH 01:27:56,160 --> 01:27:58,240 WERE SATURDAY AND SUNDAY 01:27:58,280 --> 01:28:00,800 AND SO THEREFORE THERE WOULDN'T BE ANY, 01:28:00,840 --> 01:28:03,240 THESE ARE BASICALLY LOGS OF PEOPLE WHO CALLED 01:28:03,280 --> 01:28:06,080 AND LEFT A MESSAGE FOR ME TO CALL THEM BACK, 01:28:06,080 --> 01:28:08,840 NOT NECESSARILY EVERYBODY I TALKED TO. 01:28:08,880 --> 01:28:11,440 WHAT I WAS FACED WITH WAS A SITUATION 01:28:11,480 --> 01:28:13,680 WHERE THE NEGOTIATORS SAID, 01:28:13,680 --> 01:28:15,720 "WE THINK WE HAVE REACHED AN IMPASSE, 01:28:15,760 --> 01:28:18,120 NOBODY ELSE IS COMING OUT VOLUNTARILY." 01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:20,200 WE LOOKED AT THE ENTIRE SITUATION 01:28:20,200 --> 01:28:22,320 AND WE MADE THE BEST JUDGEMENT WE COULD. 01:28:22,360 --> 01:28:25,240 I AM VERY SATISFIED THAT IN THE INFORMATION 01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:28,600 FURNISHED TO ME BY THE FBI, I WAS INFORMED. 01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:29,640 DO YOU KNOW 01:28:29,680 --> 01:28:31,920 IF ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO WAS EVER ADVISED 01:28:31,960 --> 01:28:33,600 THAT THERE WAS THIS NEW DEVELOPMENT 01:28:33,640 --> 01:28:34,920 BEFORE SHE MADE HER DECISION? 01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:38,600 I DON'T KNOW. I DOUBT IT, BECAUSE IT WAS NOT, 01:28:38,600 --> 01:28:41,800 FROM OUR UNDERSTANDING OF IT, 01:28:41,840 --> 01:28:45,040 THE JUDGEMENT WAS LOOKING AT WHAT THEY WERE DOING, 01:28:45,080 --> 01:28:46,720 MAYBE SHE WAS NOT. I DON'T KNOW. 01:28:46,760 --> 01:28:49,360 BUT THERE WASN'T ANY REASON TO BECAUSE IT WAS NOT 01:28:49,400 --> 01:28:50,320 A SERIOUS PLAN. 01:28:50,360 --> 01:28:51,480 IT WAS JUST ANOTHER DELAYING TACTIC. 01:28:51,520 --> 01:28:54,600 THE FBI TESTIFIED 01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:56,040 BEFORE THE HOUSE HEARINGS 01:28:56,080 --> 01:28:59,280 THAT THEIR NEGOTIATIONS HAD REACHED AN IMPASSE. 01:28:59,280 --> 01:29:01,520 THEY TOLD THE ATTORNEY GENERAL THEY WEREN'T COMING OUT, 01:29:01,560 --> 01:29:03,400 AND THAT THERE WAS A STALLING TACTIC, 01:29:03,440 --> 01:29:06,000 AND THEY WEREN'T WORKING ON THE SEVEN SEALS. 01:29:06,040 --> 01:29:08,200 THEIR OWN NEGOTIATORS HAD REACHED AN AGREEMENT 01:29:08,200 --> 01:29:10,840 KNOWING THE FIRST SEAL WAS FINISHED, 01:29:10,840 --> 01:29:12,320 AND IN ORDER TO GET PROOF OF IT 01:29:12,360 --> 01:29:14,040 HAD SENT IN TYPEWRITER RIBBONS 01:29:14,080 --> 01:29:17,080 SO THEY COULD GET THAT PROOF IN THEIR HANDS. 01:29:17,080 --> 01:29:18,720 AND YET THE VERY NEXT MORNING 01:29:18,720 --> 01:29:20,800 THEY LAUNCHED THE GAS AND TANK ATTACK. 01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:28,680 TANK TREADS RUMBLING 01:29:36,760 --> 01:29:41,760 David, individuals inside the Branch Davidian compound, 01:29:41,800 --> 01:29:44,560 we are in the process of placing tear gas 01:29:44,560 --> 01:29:47,440 into the building. This is not an assault. 01:29:47,480 --> 01:29:50,440 This is not an assault. 01:29:50,440 --> 01:29:53,720 If you fire, fire will be returned. 01:29:54,240 --> 01:29:56,800 - Everybody grab your masks. 01:29:56,840 --> 01:29:59,640 Everybody grab your masks! 01:30:01,560 --> 01:30:04,040 - THE GAS SUPPLIES A NUMBER OF IRRITANTS 01:30:04,080 --> 01:30:06,440 TO THE NOSTRILS, TO THE EYES, TO THE SKIN. 01:30:06,480 --> 01:30:09,520 JUST TOUCHING TO THE SKIN CAN BE EXTREMELY PAINFUL. 01:30:09,560 --> 01:30:12,560 YOU CAN HAVE CERTAIN SYMPTOMS OF NAUSEA. 01:30:12,600 --> 01:30:15,560 YOU CAN HAVE CERTAIN SYMPTOMS OF INFLAMMATION 01:30:15,600 --> 01:30:17,440 WITH REGARD TO THE MEMBRANES. 01:30:17,480 --> 01:30:20,600 SO IT IS EXTREMELY UNCOMFORTABLE. 01:30:22,480 --> 01:30:25,160 BOOT CAMP TRAINEES ARE BRIEFLY EXPOSED 01:30:25,200 --> 01:30:27,800 TO A MILD AMOUNT OF C.S. FOR A FEW SECONDS. 01:30:27,840 --> 01:30:31,400 THE DAVIDIANS RECEIVED MORE THAN 10 TIMES THAT DOSAGE 01:30:31,440 --> 01:30:33,640 FOR MORE THAN SIX HOURS. 01:30:33,680 --> 01:30:37,360 C.S. ISN'T A GAS, IT'S A CHEMICAL POWDER. 01:30:37,400 --> 01:30:39,480 AT WACO, THE C.S. POWDER WAS DISSOLVED 01:30:39,480 --> 01:30:41,320 IN METHYLENE CHLORIDE, 01:30:41,360 --> 01:30:43,920 A VOLATILE CHEMICAL USED FOR STRIPPING PAINT. 01:30:43,960 --> 01:30:46,960 TOGETHER THEY FORMED AN AEROSOL MIST 01:30:47,000 --> 01:30:49,520 WHEN SPRAYED THROUGH HUGE STEEL INJECTORS 01:30:49,560 --> 01:30:51,320 FITTED ONTO THE TANKS. 01:30:51,360 --> 01:30:55,520 IN CLOSED SPACES, C.S. ALONE CAN CAUSE UNCONSCIOUSNESS, 01:30:55,560 --> 01:30:58,280 DEATH, AND CAN BE IGNITED BY A SPARK 01:30:58,320 --> 01:31:00,000 INTO A FIREBALL. 01:31:01,960 --> 01:31:05,040 WHEN C.S. BURNS, IT PRODUCES HYDROGEN CYANIDE, 01:31:05,080 --> 01:31:08,720 THE SAME GAS USED IN PRISON GAS CHAMBERS. 01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:14,000 - DID YOU TELL THE ATTORNEY GENERAL 01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:16,680 THAT INFANTS WOULD NOT DIE OR BE HARMED? 01:31:16,720 --> 01:31:20,680 I TOLD HER THERE IS NO INCREASED SENSITIVITY 01:31:20,720 --> 01:31:23,520 TO THE EFFECTS OF C.S. 01:31:23,560 --> 01:31:26,400 ON INFANTS, YOUNG ADULTS, AND OLDER PEOPLE. 01:31:26,440 --> 01:31:29,360 Say, "Bye bye." Say, "Bye bye." 01:31:29,400 --> 01:31:31,320 There she goes. 01:31:31,360 --> 01:31:32,680 Say, "Bye bye." 01:31:32,720 --> 01:31:36,480 - I BELIEVE USING C.S. GAS AGAINST INFANTS, 01:31:36,520 --> 01:31:39,000 AGAINST OLD PEOPLE WITH RESPIRATORY PROBLEMS, 01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:41,720 THERE WERE 60, 70 YEAR-OLD MEN IN THERE, 01:31:41,760 --> 01:31:43,600 AND THERE WERE YOUNG CHILDREN. 01:31:43,640 --> 01:31:46,840 THAT'S TORTURE, AND I CAN JUST SEE THOSE KIDS 01:31:46,880 --> 01:31:49,680 BARFING, VOMITING, SCREAMING, 01:31:49,720 --> 01:31:51,560 BECAUSE YOU CAN'T POSSIBLY HAVE A GAS MASK 01:31:51,600 --> 01:31:53,000 THAT'LL FIT A LITTLE KID. 01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:54,600 DIDN'T THEIR REPORTS SAY 01:31:54,640 --> 01:31:56,800 THAT GAS MASKS DON'T FIT ON THESE BABIES? 01:31:56,880 --> 01:31:58,720 -THAT'S CORRECT. DIDN'T THEY KNOW THAT?! 01:31:58,760 --> 01:32:00,440 - THEY SHOULD'VE KNOWN THAT. 01:32:02,200 --> 01:32:05,200 Do not shoot, this is not an assault. 01:32:05,240 --> 01:32:07,720 We will not be entering the building. 01:32:07,760 --> 01:32:10,360 This is not an assault. 01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:24,320 - THEY EXPLAINED TO ME THEY WERE POURING FUEL 01:32:24,360 --> 01:32:27,800 AND THEY WERE MAKING MOLOTOV COCKTAILS 01:32:27,840 --> 01:32:29,360 TO THROW AT THE TANKS. 01:32:29,400 --> 01:32:32,720 THEY NEVER DID THROW MOLOTOV COCKTAILS AT THE TANKS. 01:32:38,920 --> 01:32:41,160 THE CONVERSATION ABOUT THAT TAKES PLACE 01:32:41,200 --> 01:32:44,400 IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS, 6:00 AND 7:00 IN THE MORNING. 01:32:44,440 --> 01:32:47,920 THE FIRE DIDN'T START UNTIL RIGHT AROUND NOON. 01:32:47,960 --> 01:32:50,960 - If you come out now you will not be harmed. 01:32:51,000 --> 01:32:52,720 Come out with your hands up 01:32:52,760 --> 01:32:55,320 carrying nothing. 01:32:55,360 --> 01:32:57,680 You are under arrest. 01:32:57,720 --> 01:32:59,880 This standoff is over. 01:32:59,920 --> 01:33:02,080 - SHORTLY AFTER THEY STARTED, THEY BEGAN 01:33:02,080 --> 01:33:05,880 ALSO NOT ONLY SPRAYING IT FROM THE CVs OFF OF THE BOOMS, 01:33:05,920 --> 01:33:08,120 BUT THEY STARTED FIRING FERRET ROUNDS, 01:33:08,160 --> 01:33:10,680 ON THE EXCUSE, OF COURSE, WE LEARNED LATER, 01:33:10,720 --> 01:33:12,880 THAT WE WERE SUPPOSED TO BE FIRING AT THEM. 01:33:12,920 --> 01:33:15,160 - WHAT DID YOU FEEL? WHAT WERE YOUR EMOTIONS? 01:33:15,200 --> 01:33:18,400 - WE DEFINITELY WEREN'T BELIEVING WHAT WE WERE HEARING, 01:33:18,440 --> 01:33:19,920 THAT THEY WERE NOT ENTERING THE BUILDING 01:33:19,960 --> 01:33:21,520 OR THIS WAS NOT AN ATTACK. 01:33:21,520 --> 01:33:23,680 WE WERE TOLD THEY WEREN'T GOING TO BE SHOOTING, 01:33:23,720 --> 01:33:26,640 AND YET THEY'RE FIRING WHAT AMOUNTED TO 01:33:26,680 --> 01:33:28,880 MORTARS OR ROCKETS AT US, 01:33:28,920 --> 01:33:31,800 THESE FERRET ROUNDS, WHICH SOUNDED LIKE A MORTAR. 01:33:31,840 --> 01:33:34,520 - WERE YOU AFRAID? SHIT, YES. 01:33:34,560 --> 01:33:36,040 - EXPERTS SAY THE "FERRETS," 01:33:36,080 --> 01:33:38,920 OR BARRICADE-PENETRATING CARTRIDGES, THAT WERE USED 01:33:38,960 --> 01:33:41,680 ARE NON-PYROTECHNIC, OR NON-INCENDIARY. 01:33:41,720 --> 01:33:44,520 THEY INTRODUCE C.S. GAS IN A VAPOUR FORM 01:33:44,560 --> 01:33:46,200 AS THE TIP DISINTEGRATES. 01:33:46,240 --> 01:33:48,120 BUT EXPERTS ALSO SAY 01:33:48,160 --> 01:33:50,720 THE FERRETS PACK ENOUGH FORCE TO KILL SOMEONE 01:33:50,760 --> 01:33:52,360 WITH A DIRECT HIT. 01:33:52,400 --> 01:33:54,160 POPS 01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:56,680 EMPTY FERRET BOXES FOUND ON THE COMPOUND GROUNDS 01:33:56,720 --> 01:33:59,080 WARN AGAINST FIRING THE ROUNDS AT PEOPLE. 01:33:59,120 --> 01:34:01,920 DESPITE THAT WARNING, AGENTS FIRED FERRETS 01:34:01,960 --> 01:34:03,680 INTO EVERY WINDOW OF THE COMPOUND. 01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:05,440 AND, ACCORDING TO THE REVIEW, 01:34:05,480 --> 01:34:07,800 ANY MOVEMENT INSIDE WAS TARGETED. 01:34:07,840 --> 01:34:10,960 - Do not fire any weapons. 01:34:11,000 --> 01:34:13,880 - WITH RESPECT TO... 01:34:13,920 --> 01:34:16,240 THE USE OF MILITARY WEAPONS, 01:34:16,280 --> 01:34:21,480 THESE PIECES OF EQUIPMENT 01:34:21,520 --> 01:34:23,680 WERE UNARMED AS I UNDERSTAND IT, 01:34:23,720 --> 01:34:26,560 AND WERE CONTRACTED. 01:34:26,600 --> 01:34:28,840 IT WAS LIKE A GOOD RENT-A-CAR. 01:34:28,880 --> 01:34:31,680 - A GOOD RENT-A-CAR? 01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:33,720 A TANK GOING INTO A BUILDING? 01:34:37,640 --> 01:34:46,000 DRAMATIC MUSIC 01:34:49,480 --> 01:34:52,000 AT 9:00, ATTORNEY GENERAL RENO 01:34:52,040 --> 01:34:54,400 LEFT THE COMMAND CENTRE AT FBI HEADQUARTERS 01:34:54,440 --> 01:34:57,680 TO GIVE A SPEECH IN NEARBY BALTIMORE. 01:34:57,720 --> 01:35:00,160 FROM THEN ON, WACO DECISIONS WERE MADE 01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:02,320 BY TOP OFFICIALS OF THE FBI, 01:35:02,360 --> 01:35:04,840 AND THE CLINTON ADMINISTRATION. 01:35:05,240 --> 01:35:07,720 - FOUR MINUTES INTO THE RAID, IT ESCALATES. 01:35:07,800 --> 01:35:09,120 THE 48-HOUR PLAN, 01:35:09,160 --> 01:35:10,600 ACCORDING TO THE TESTIMONY, IS GONE. 01:35:10,640 --> 01:35:11,520 WE'RE NOW GOING TO DO 01:35:11,560 --> 01:35:14,120 A MASSIVE INSERTION OF GAS INTO EVERY WINDOW. 01:35:14,120 --> 01:35:17,680 DID YOU CONSIDER STAYING IN WASHINGTON D.C. 01:35:17,720 --> 01:35:20,560 GIVEN THAT ESCALATION FOUR MINUTES INTO THE PLAN? 01:35:21,080 --> 01:35:22,920 DURING THE COURSE OF THE MORNING 01:35:22,960 --> 01:35:23,680 THE QUESTION AROSE 01:35:23,720 --> 01:35:25,720 WHETHER I SHOULD CANCEL THE SPEECH 01:35:25,760 --> 01:35:27,680 AND THE FBI DID NOT WANT ME TO DO SO 01:35:27,720 --> 01:35:29,920 BECAUSE THEY THOUGHT IT WOULD ATTRACT ATTENTION 01:35:29,960 --> 01:35:31,680 IF I SUDDENLY CANCELLED A SPEECH, 01:35:31,720 --> 01:35:33,920 IT'D LOOK LIKE THERE WOULD BE AN EMERGENCY. 01:35:34,520 --> 01:35:37,640 ONE OF THE MOST INADEQUATE PARTS 01:35:37,680 --> 01:35:40,520 OF THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S REPORT 01:35:40,560 --> 01:35:43,280 IS THEIR FAILURE TO DESCRIBE 01:35:43,320 --> 01:35:47,600 THE DECISION-MAKING PROCESS AT THE COMMAND POST. 01:35:48,360 --> 01:35:52,200 I THINK THAT IS... 01:35:52,240 --> 01:35:54,160 UNPARDONABLE. 01:35:55,480 --> 01:35:58,800 THERE IS NOTHING IN THE INVESTIGATION 01:35:58,840 --> 01:36:00,960 OF WHAT WAS GOING ON 01:36:01,000 --> 01:36:03,720 IN THE WASHINGTON COMMAND POST 01:36:03,760 --> 01:36:06,000 WHERE THEY HAD A SITUATION ROOM 01:36:06,040 --> 01:36:10,280 WHICH WAS SUPPOSEDLY CONSTANTLY IN TOUCH WITH WACO. 01:36:10,320 --> 01:36:12,440 WHAT WERE THE COMMUNICATIONS THAT WENT ON? 01:36:12,480 --> 01:36:14,680 WHAT WERE THE DECISIONS MADE? 01:36:14,720 --> 01:36:17,680 AND THAT WE HAVE NEVER HEARD. 01:36:20,840 --> 01:36:23,320 DOZENS AND DOZENS OF ROUNDS 01:36:23,360 --> 01:36:26,240 HAVE BEEN FIRED AT FBI AGENTS. 01:36:26,280 --> 01:36:28,400 THE FBI 01:36:28,440 --> 01:36:30,200 IN AN EFFORT 01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:33,640 TO DEMONSTRATE ITS EXTRAORDINARY RESTRAINT, 01:36:33,680 --> 01:36:37,600 HAS NOT RETURNED FIRE THUS FAR. 01:36:37,640 --> 01:36:40,680 AIRPLANE ENGINE HUMS 01:36:42,520 --> 01:36:45,120 ALMOST TWO MILES ABOVE MT. CARMEL, 01:36:45,160 --> 01:36:46,160 A SURVEILLANCE PLANE 01:36:46,160 --> 01:36:48,040 WAS PHOTOGRAPHING EVENTS ON THE GROUND 01:36:48,080 --> 01:36:50,600 WITH A FORWARD-LOOKING INFRA-RED CAMERA, 01:36:50,640 --> 01:36:54,240 COMMONLY CALLED BY ITS ACRONYM, "FLIR." 01:36:59,080 --> 01:37:01,720 EDWARD ALLARD HELPED DEVELOP THE FLIR. 01:37:01,720 --> 01:37:03,960 HE'S A FORMER MANAGER OF THE DEFENCE DEPARTMENT'S 01:37:04,000 --> 01:37:06,040 NIGHT VISION LABORATORY, 01:37:06,080 --> 01:37:08,560 AND HOLDS SEVERAL PATENTS ON FLIR 01:37:08,600 --> 01:37:10,360 AND NIGHT VISION TECHNOLOGY. 01:37:10,400 --> 01:37:12,280 ALLARD EXPLAINS WHAT HAPPENS 01:37:12,320 --> 01:37:15,080 AS A TANK APPROACHES THE REAR OF MT. CARMEL 01:37:15,120 --> 01:37:17,040 AROUND 11:16 A.M. 01:37:17,080 --> 01:37:18,200 THAT'S THE SIDE 01:37:18,240 --> 01:37:20,440 THE NEWS CAMERAS COULDN'T SEE. 01:37:20,480 --> 01:37:21,760 - THERMAL IMAGERY 01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:24,120 IS NOT THE SAME AS BLACK AND WHITE IMAGERY. 01:37:24,160 --> 01:37:26,040 EVEN THOUGH WE'RE GOING TO SEE IMAGES 01:37:26,080 --> 01:37:27,000 THAT LOOK LIKE 01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:28,640 IT'S BLACK AND WHITE TELEVISION CAMERAS, 01:37:28,680 --> 01:37:30,480 IT IS NOT. 01:37:32,000 --> 01:37:33,800 THIS TYPE OF IMAGERY 01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:35,800 IS THE SAME TYPE OF IMAGERY 01:37:35,840 --> 01:37:38,040 THAT WAS USED BY OUR ARMED FORCES 01:37:38,080 --> 01:37:40,560 IN "DESERT STORM." 01:37:43,440 --> 01:37:46,800 THE BRIGHT SPOTS OF THIS PARTICULAR FILM 01:37:46,840 --> 01:37:49,320 ARE SPOTS THAT ARE HOT, 01:37:49,360 --> 01:37:53,680 THE GRAY AREA, WARM, WE'LL SAY, 01:37:53,720 --> 01:37:57,800 AND THE BLACK AREAS ARE COOL, THEY'RE RELATIVELY COOL. 01:37:57,840 --> 01:38:00,800 THEY'RE STILL PRETTY WARM FOR A TEXAS MIDDAY, 01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:01,840 BUT THEY ARE, 01:38:01,880 --> 01:38:04,280 A LOT COOLER THAN THE REST OF THE SURROUNDING AREA. 01:38:04,920 --> 01:38:08,400 IF YOU LOOK CAREFULLY, WHAT YOU WILL SEE 01:38:08,440 --> 01:38:11,080 IS THE EXHAUST PLUME OF THE TANK. 01:38:11,120 --> 01:38:12,240 YOU'LL SEE THE PLUME TWICE, 01:38:12,280 --> 01:38:13,720 WHEN THE OPERATOR STEPS ON THE GAS 01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:15,080 THERE IT IS AGAIN. 01:38:15,080 --> 01:38:19,080 NOW WHAT YOU WILL SEE IS A SHORT BURST, THERE. 01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:21,200 THAT SHORT BURST WE FEEL 01:38:21,200 --> 01:38:22,840 IS A GUNSHOT. 01:38:25,400 --> 01:38:28,520 THE NEXT VIEW IS A VIEW IN SLOW MOTION. 01:38:32,160 --> 01:38:33,720 AS THE VEHICLE APPROACHES, 01:38:33,720 --> 01:38:36,600 WE SEE THE PLUME FROM THE ENGINE... 01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:40,720 AND WE HAVE THE GUNSHOT... 01:38:41,480 --> 01:38:42,520 NOW. 01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:44,600 FREEZE IT THERE, PLEASE. 01:38:44,640 --> 01:38:47,160 YOU CAN SEE NOW THE OUTLINE OF THE TANK. 01:38:47,160 --> 01:38:49,200 YOU CAN CLEARLY SEE THE OUTLINE OF THE TANK. 01:38:49,240 --> 01:38:50,160 THERE'S THE BLADE, 01:38:50,160 --> 01:38:52,200 THERE'S THE BLADE IN FRONT OF THE TANK. 01:38:52,240 --> 01:38:54,760 THERE'S THE OPPOSITE SIDE OF THE TANK. 01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:59,000 THIS HOT AREA BACK HERE IS THE ENGINE, THE DECK AREA. 01:38:59,040 --> 01:39:02,560 AND... IT APPEARS THAT THE, 01:39:02,600 --> 01:39:04,400 THE SHOT THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IS COMING 01:39:04,400 --> 01:39:06,560 OFF THE REAR DECK AREA OF THE TANK. 01:39:08,480 --> 01:39:09,880 THIS PARTICULAR ONE, 01:39:09,920 --> 01:39:12,240 THE BURST LASTED ABOUT ONE SECOND. 01:39:15,840 --> 01:39:17,480 AND WE WILL SEE 01:39:17,480 --> 01:39:19,680 SHOTS SIMILAR TO THIS THROUGHOUT THE TAPE 01:39:19,720 --> 01:39:21,680 AND NOTHING ELSE APPEARS 01:39:21,720 --> 01:39:23,840 WITH THE TYPE OF THERMAL SIGNATURE 01:39:23,880 --> 01:39:25,480 THAT WE GET OF GUNSHOTS. 01:39:27,120 --> 01:39:30,480 DID THE FBI FIRE ONE SHOT, 01:39:30,520 --> 01:39:32,720 EVEN ONE SHOT AT THE DAVIDIAN COMPOUND? 01:39:32,760 --> 01:39:36,600 - NO, SIR, NOT THROUGHOUT THE ENTIRE STANDOFF. 01:39:43,400 --> 01:39:46,600 WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE HERE 01:39:46,640 --> 01:39:49,760 IS WHAT COULD BE CALLED AN INFANTRY TANK MANOEUVRE. 01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:51,520 WE NOTICE THE TANK, 01:39:51,560 --> 01:39:54,160 THERE'S THE TANK SMASHING INTO THE BUILDING. 01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:58,320 WE'LL ALSO SEE GUNFIRE, MULTIPLE GUNFIRE, 01:39:58,360 --> 01:40:01,720 ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE TANK TO THE REAR OF THE TANK. 01:40:10,600 --> 01:40:12,920 RIGHT NOW WE'RE SEEING A CLOSE-UP VIEW 01:40:12,920 --> 01:40:15,160 OF EXACTLY THE SAME THING. 01:40:15,200 --> 01:40:17,560 THE IMPORTANT THING TO NOTICE IS THE GUNFIRE, 01:40:17,600 --> 01:40:19,080 MULTIPLE ROUNDS BEING FIRED 01:40:19,120 --> 01:40:22,000 FROM AT LEAST TWO DIFFERENT POSITIONS. 01:40:22,040 --> 01:40:24,160 AND IT'S ABOUT 10 BURSTS 01:40:24,200 --> 01:40:26,560 IN APPROXIMATELY TWO TO THREE SECONDS. 01:40:26,600 --> 01:40:29,120 AND ACCORDING TO OUR CALCULATIONS, 01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:31,560 IT INDICATES THAT BOTH POSITIONS 01:40:31,600 --> 01:40:34,320 ARE FIRING AUTOMATIC WEAPONS. 01:40:34,360 --> 01:40:36,600 THERE IS NOTHING IN NATURE 01:40:36,640 --> 01:40:39,800 THAT WOULD DUPLICATE THESE TYPE OF THERMAL SIGNATURES 01:40:39,840 --> 01:40:43,600 PRIMARILY BECAUSE OF THE SHORT DURATION 01:40:43,640 --> 01:40:46,120 OF THE BURSTS THEMSELVES. 01:40:46,160 --> 01:40:48,560 NOTHING IN NATURE COULD DO THAT. 01:40:48,600 --> 01:40:50,360 - I'LL REMIND THE AMERICAN PEOPLE 01:40:50,400 --> 01:40:52,040 ONE MORE TIME 01:40:52,080 --> 01:40:54,080 THAT DURING THAT ENTIRE TIME, 01:40:54,120 --> 01:40:57,040 THOSE SIX HOURS, AND INDEED, THOSE 51 DAYS, 01:40:57,080 --> 01:41:00,000 THE FBI NEVER FIRED ONE SHOT 01:41:00,040 --> 01:41:01,720 AT THE DAVIDIANS. 01:41:03,880 --> 01:41:06,560 WHAT WE'RE GOING TO SEE NOW 01:41:06,600 --> 01:41:08,560 IS RAPID FIRE 01:41:08,600 --> 01:41:12,560 IN THE COURTYARD RIGHT BEHIND THE DINING ROOM AREA. 01:41:12,600 --> 01:41:14,960 YOU CAN SEE THE FIRE GOING ON, 01:41:15,000 --> 01:41:17,360 BUT IT'S DIFFICULT TO SEE IN REAL TIME. 01:41:24,640 --> 01:41:27,080 NOW THE SLOW MOTION SHOWS THINGS 01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:28,920 MUCH MORE CLEARLY. 01:41:36,800 --> 01:41:41,160 DRAMATIC MUSIC 01:41:45,560 --> 01:41:47,040 THERE ARE TWO POSITIONS. 01:41:47,080 --> 01:41:48,640 IF WE LOOK AT THE TAPE CAREFULLY, 01:41:48,680 --> 01:41:50,120 THERE ARE TWO POSITIONS. 01:41:50,160 --> 01:41:54,040 AND APPARENTLY BY THE SIGNATURE ITSELF 01:41:54,040 --> 01:41:56,040 OF THE BURST, 01:41:56,080 --> 01:42:00,400 IT APPARENTLY IS GOING FROM THIS AREA HERE 01:42:00,440 --> 01:42:03,320 INTO THE DINING ROOM AREA. 01:42:11,240 --> 01:42:14,640 WHAT ALLARD SAW WAS VERIFIED IN AN INDEPENDENT FLIR ANALYSIS 01:42:14,680 --> 01:42:18,440 DONE BY INFRASPECTION INSTITUTE FOR CBS' "60 MINUTES." 01:42:29,880 --> 01:42:32,160 A SECOND LETTER FROM INFRASPECTION INSTITUTE 01:42:32,200 --> 01:42:34,320 STATES THE FEAR THAT KEPT "60 MINUTES" 01:42:34,360 --> 01:42:36,360 FROM INFORMING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. 01:42:56,160 --> 01:42:58,320 IN ADDITION TO NOTICING THE GUNFIRE, 01:42:58,360 --> 01:43:00,720 INFRASPECTION SAW SOMETHING ELSE. 01:43:21,240 --> 01:43:23,920 THE WHOLE IDEA HERE WAS NOT TO HURT PEOPLE, RIGHT? 01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:25,200 - THAT IS CORRECT. 01:43:25,240 --> 01:43:27,680 I WANT TO FOCUS ON THAT BUILDING RIGHT THERE, 01:43:27,720 --> 01:43:28,800 AND THAT CORNER. 01:43:28,840 --> 01:43:30,480 YOU SEE IT'S NOW STRUCTURALLY SOUND. 01:43:30,520 --> 01:43:32,120 WOULD YOU GO TO THE NEXT PHOTO? 01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:33,440 WE'RE NOW LOOKING FROM THE FRONT CORNER. 01:43:33,480 --> 01:43:35,360 THESE ARE TAKEN FROM THE AIRPLANES. 01:43:35,360 --> 01:43:37,560 YOU WILL SEE THAT WHERE HE IS POINTING 01:43:37,600 --> 01:43:40,200 THAT SECTION OF THE BUILDING IS GONE. 01:43:40,240 --> 01:43:43,160 INDEED, A GREAT PORTION OF THE BUILDING IS GONE. 01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:46,880 - THERE WAS A DISCUSSION THAT THERE MAY COME A POINT 01:43:46,880 --> 01:43:48,640 WHERE WE WOULD TRY... 01:43:48,680 --> 01:43:50,480 TO POKE HOLES IN THE BUILDING. 01:43:50,520 --> 01:43:52,280 - I UNDERSTOOD THAT. YES, SIR. 01:43:52,320 --> 01:43:56,200 THIS I DON'T SEE AS A HOLE. -NO, I UNDERSTAND THAT. 01:43:56,200 --> 01:43:57,560 I DO NOT BELIEVE 01:43:57,600 --> 01:43:59,480 THERE WERE ANY BODIES FOUND IN THAT AREA. 01:43:59,520 --> 01:44:02,080 - THE CLOSEST BODIES WERE FOUND A LITTLE FURTHER IN. 01:44:02,120 --> 01:44:04,360 EACH ONE OF THOSE FIVE BODIES IT'S REPORTED 01:44:04,400 --> 01:44:06,480 HAD EXTENSIVE, ACCORDING TO THE AUTOPSY REPORT, 01:44:06,520 --> 01:44:08,480 EXTENSIVE BODY MUTILATION. 01:44:08,920 --> 01:44:10,480 - DAVIDIAN STEPHEN HENRY 01:44:10,520 --> 01:44:14,040 HAD A GUNSHOT WOUND THROUGH HIS CHEST. 01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:17,360 HIS LEG WAS SHEARED OFF AT THE HIP. 01:44:23,240 --> 01:44:25,560 JAMES RIDDLE HAD BEEN SHOT TOO, 01:44:25,600 --> 01:44:28,680 BUT A LARGE CIRCULAR PORTION OF THE RIGHT SIDE OF HIS CHEST 01:44:28,680 --> 01:44:31,040 HAD ALSO BEEN RIPPED OUT OF HIS BODY. 01:44:36,000 --> 01:44:39,000 RIDDLE'S RED SHIRT WAS DANGLING FROM HIS WRIST. 01:44:45,280 --> 01:44:47,880 HIS NEARBY COAT HAD A RED LINING. 01:44:54,560 --> 01:44:58,560 THIS GUNFIRE OCCURRED AT 11:24 AM. 01:45:03,880 --> 01:45:05,960 ABOUT 10 MINUTES LATER 01:45:06,000 --> 01:45:08,480 SOMETHING GOT JAMMED NEAR THE TANK'S FRONT WHEEL 01:45:08,480 --> 01:45:11,000 THAT CAUSED THE TREAD TO COME OFF. 01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:16,240 SOMETHING THAT WAS MOSTLY RED. 01:45:21,000 --> 01:45:22,800 THE AVAILABLE EVIDENCE INDICATES 01:45:22,840 --> 01:45:25,360 THAT COULD BE JAMES RIDDLE'S BODY. 01:45:28,640 --> 01:45:34,240 DRAMATIC MUSIC 01:45:37,120 --> 01:45:39,680 TO ATTACH THE DISABLED TANK TO A RETRIEVER 01:45:39,720 --> 01:45:41,160 AND TOW IT AWAY, 01:45:41,200 --> 01:45:43,480 MEN HAD TO EXPOSE THEMSELVES TO THE GUNFIRE 01:45:43,520 --> 01:45:46,560 FBI OFFICIALS SAID WAS COMING FROM THE DAVIDIANS. 01:45:49,320 --> 01:45:51,440 THIS IS ONE OF THESE THINGS, MR. CHAIRMAN, 01:45:51,480 --> 01:45:53,680 THAT NAGS AT YOU. 01:45:53,960 --> 01:45:56,720 DAMAGE TO THE TANKS, COMMON SENSE TELLS ME, 01:45:56,760 --> 01:45:59,800 WOULD BE REFLECTED IN THE DAMAGE REPORT. 01:45:59,840 --> 01:46:02,440 ALMOST TWO MONTHS AGO WE REQUESTED IT. 01:46:02,440 --> 01:46:06,600 OVER TWO YEARS HAVE ELAPSED SINCE THIS OCCURRED. 01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:09,400 SURELY THE DAMAGE REPORT HAD BEEN COMPILED? 01:46:09,400 --> 01:46:12,080 I REALIZE THE WHEELS OF BUREAUCRACY 01:46:12,120 --> 01:46:14,520 TURN AWFULLY SLOWLY IN THIS TOWN, 01:46:14,560 --> 01:46:15,880 BUT AFTER TWO YEARS? 01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:20,040 - I'LL BE GLAD TO LOOK INTO IT, AND SEE WHAT WE CAN PRODUCE. 01:46:34,440 --> 01:46:36,920 Huh? 01:46:36,960 --> 01:46:40,280 - There's too many people! 01:46:40,320 --> 01:46:42,200 Go the other way! 01:46:42,240 --> 01:46:45,480 - There's too many people that way. 01:46:51,200 --> 01:46:53,440 AS THE GASSING CONTINUED, 01:46:53,480 --> 01:46:55,680 THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN WENT TO THE SAFEST PLACE 01:46:55,720 --> 01:46:59,600 LEFT INSIDE MT. CARMEL, THE KITCHEN STORAGE ROOM, 01:46:59,640 --> 01:47:02,680 A FIRST FLOOR STEEL-REINFORCED CONCRETE ROOM, 01:47:02,720 --> 01:47:05,120 A FORMER VAULT AT THE BOTTOM 01:47:05,160 --> 01:47:07,000 OF THE SQUARE WOODEN TOWER. 01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,840 - WOMEN AND CHILDREN ENDED UP GOING IN THERE 01:47:17,880 --> 01:47:19,880 AND BECAUSE THEY DIDN'T HAVE GAS MASKS AND STUFF 01:47:19,920 --> 01:47:22,440 THEY WERE COVERING THEMSELVES WITH WET BLANKETS 01:47:22,480 --> 01:47:24,440 AND WET TOWELS AND THINGS LIKE THAT. 01:47:24,880 --> 01:47:28,360 WE KNEW THAT PROTECTION WAS IN THERE. 01:47:28,400 --> 01:47:30,440 WE BELIEVED WE FINALLY WERE ABLE TO MAKE 01:47:30,480 --> 01:47:33,560 ENTRY INTO THAT COMPOUND, AND WERE ABLE TO INSERT GAS 01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:35,880 INSIDE THAT PROTECTIVE AREA. 01:47:41,360 --> 01:47:43,280 THEY ACTUALLY DROVE RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE 01:47:43,320 --> 01:47:45,160 OF THE BUILDING INTO THE KITCHEN AREA, 01:47:45,200 --> 01:47:47,840 BASICALLY AT POINT BLANK RANGE, 01:47:47,880 --> 01:47:50,800 FIRED GAS INTO THE CONCRETE ROOM 01:47:50,840 --> 01:47:52,720 WHERE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN WERE. 01:47:52,760 --> 01:47:55,760 IN A CUL-DE-SAC LIKE THAT WHERE THERE WAS NO VENTILATION, 01:47:55,800 --> 01:47:57,480 THEY MUST'VE BEEN GOING THROUGH, 01:47:57,520 --> 01:47:58,840 - THERE WAS ONLY ONE DOOR? 01:47:58,960 --> 01:48:01,040 FRONT, YEAH. THERE WAS NO WINDOWS, 01:48:01,080 --> 01:48:04,040 NO BACK DOOR OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. 01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:13,040 WE PUT MASSIVE GAS IN THERE. 01:48:13,040 --> 01:48:16,320 THEIR GAS MASKS BY THAT TIME HAD TO BE FAILING. 01:48:21,840 --> 01:48:23,840 - THEY WOULD BE COUGHING, CHOKING. 01:48:23,880 --> 01:48:26,320 THEY WOULD PROBABLY BE UNCONSCIOUS. 01:48:27,880 --> 01:48:30,560 SOME OF THEM WOULD PROBABLY BE DEAD. 01:48:30,600 --> 01:48:33,600 SOME WOULD BE... 01:48:34,120 --> 01:48:35,640 BASICALLY... 01:48:37,640 --> 01:48:39,120 INERT. 01:48:39,120 --> 01:48:41,040 THEY MAY STILL BE ALIVE, 01:48:41,080 --> 01:48:43,040 THEY MAY STILL BE BREATHING, 01:48:43,080 --> 01:48:45,400 BUT THEY'RE NOT GOING TO BE DOING ANYTHING. 01:48:45,520 --> 01:48:49,360 - IN PLANNING VERY LARGE ACTIONS OF THIS SORT, 01:48:49,400 --> 01:48:51,280 LIKE THE GOING IN AT THE BUILDING, 01:48:51,280 --> 01:48:52,720 YOU DO A LOT OF PLANNING 01:48:52,760 --> 01:48:54,320 LIKE, "IF THIS HAPPENS, THEN THIS. 01:48:54,360 --> 01:48:55,200 WE'LL DO THIS. 01:48:55,240 --> 01:48:56,800 IF THIS HAPPENS, THEN WE'LL DO THIS," CORRECT? 01:48:56,800 --> 01:48:58,480 - YES, SIR. 01:49:01,440 --> 01:49:03,680 DIDN'T YOU CONSIDER, OR DID YOU CONSIDER 01:49:03,720 --> 01:49:07,120 THAT FIRE MIGHT WELL OCCUR IN THIS INSTANCE, 01:49:07,160 --> 01:49:09,040 AND IF IT DOES, "WE DO THIS"? 01:49:09,520 --> 01:49:12,800 YES, SIR, WE DID. 01:49:18,080 --> 01:49:21,320 BY NOON, MT. CARMEL WAS A TINDERBOX. 01:49:22,160 --> 01:49:24,280 A HEAVY LAYER OF DRIED C.S. DUST 01:49:24,320 --> 01:49:26,440 COATED EVERYTHING INSIDE. 01:49:30,080 --> 01:49:32,360 LARGE AMOUNTS OF KEROSENE AND COLEMAN FUEL 01:49:32,400 --> 01:49:34,760 FROM CONTAINERS CRUSHED BY ARMOURED VEHICLES 01:49:34,800 --> 01:49:36,520 SATURATED THE FLOOR. 01:49:36,560 --> 01:49:38,520 VAPOURS FROM METHYLENE CHLORIDE, 01:49:38,560 --> 01:49:41,880 KEROSENE AND COLEMAN GAS FILLED THE AIR. 01:49:46,040 --> 01:49:48,440 HUGE HOLES RIPPED OPEN BY THE TANKS 01:49:48,480 --> 01:49:51,360 LET THE 25-MILE-PER-HOUR WACO WIND 01:49:51,400 --> 01:49:53,800 BLOW COMPLETELY THROUGH MT. CARMEL. 01:50:03,280 --> 01:50:06,080 DRAMATIC MUSIC 01:50:08,560 --> 01:50:12,400 WHEN THE GOVERNMENTAL AGENCY MADE A DECISION, 01:50:12,440 --> 01:50:14,320 TO BREACH HOLES 01:50:14,320 --> 01:50:16,480 INTO THE BUILDING, 01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:19,240 THEY SET UP A CONFIGURATION 01:50:19,280 --> 01:50:21,560 OF A POT-BELLIED STOVE. 01:50:21,560 --> 01:50:24,480 YOU WANT IT TO BURN SLOW, YOU CLOSE OFF THE VENTS. 01:50:24,520 --> 01:50:28,120 IF YOU WANT IT TO BURN FAST, YOU OPEN IT UP. 01:50:28,120 --> 01:50:31,400 WELL THEY MADE A CONFIGURATION IN THAT BUILDING 01:50:31,440 --> 01:50:33,880 THAT WAS CONSISTENT TO A POT-BELLIED STOVE. 01:50:34,280 --> 01:50:36,080 ANY TYPE OF FIRE THAT WOULD START, 01:50:36,120 --> 01:50:38,920 EVEN IF THERE WAS NO C.S. GAS, 01:50:38,960 --> 01:50:41,080 IF THERE WAS NO FLAMMABLE LIQUIDS, 01:50:41,080 --> 01:50:44,440 THERE WAS NOTHING BUT ORDINARY COMBUSTIBLE MATERIALS, 01:50:44,280 --> 01:50:45,920 ONCE YOU HAVE A FIRE 01:50:45,960 --> 01:50:48,120 INCIPIENT IN A BUILDING LIKE THAT, 01:50:48,080 --> 01:50:51,920 IT'S GOING TO GROW TO A FAST, RAPID PROPAGATION 01:50:51,960 --> 01:50:54,760 BECAUSE OF THE VENTING. 01:50:57,640 --> 01:50:59,200 AT THIS FRONT CORNER, 01:50:59,240 --> 01:51:01,480 A COMBAT ENGINEERING VEHICLE HAS JUST MADE 01:51:01,520 --> 01:51:04,360 ITS LAST INJECTION OF C.S. 01:51:05,360 --> 01:51:07,600 THAT SMALL BLACK DOT IS THE NOZZLE TIP. 01:51:07,640 --> 01:51:10,600 ICE COLD FROM THE CARBON DIOXIDE PROPELLANT 01:51:10,600 --> 01:51:13,200 USED TO FORCE THE METHYLENE CHLORIDE-C.S. MIXTURE 01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:14,880 INTO THE BUILDING. 01:51:15,840 --> 01:51:17,280 LESS THAN A MINUTE LATER, 01:51:17,280 --> 01:51:19,400 THE FIRST OF THREE SEPARATE FIRES, 01:51:19,440 --> 01:51:21,760 THAT STARTED IN THREE SEPARATE LOCATIONS 01:51:21,760 --> 01:51:23,480 WITHIN A THREE-MINUTE PERIOD 01:51:23,520 --> 01:51:25,720 BEGAN HERE ON THE SECOND FLOOR 01:51:25,760 --> 01:51:28,600 WHILE THE FRESH MIXTURE IS AT ITS MOST VOLATILE 01:51:28,640 --> 01:51:30,720 AS A FINE MIST. 01:51:35,240 --> 01:51:37,080 - ONCE IGNITED, 01:51:37,120 --> 01:51:39,200 BOTH THE C.S. AND THE METHYLENE CHLORIDE 01:51:39,240 --> 01:51:40,880 WILL BECOME INVOLVED WITH THE FIRE 01:51:40,920 --> 01:51:42,320 AND ADD TO THE FIRE. 01:51:42,360 --> 01:51:45,400 THOSE SOURCES 01:51:45,440 --> 01:51:48,040 WILL TEND TO PRODUCE A FIREBALL 01:51:48,080 --> 01:51:50,360 OR A FLASH FIRE. 01:51:53,680 --> 01:51:57,120 TWO BRANCH DAVIDIAN SURVIVORS SAY THEY SAW FIREBALLS. 01:51:59,240 --> 01:52:02,720 SHORTLY AFTER FRESH C.S. WAS INJECTED AT THIS CORNER, 01:52:02,760 --> 01:52:05,760 THE FLIR SHOWS A SECOND TANK THAT'S PULLING AWAY. 01:52:09,160 --> 01:52:10,960 AS THE CORNER COMES INTO VIEW, 01:52:11,000 --> 01:52:13,320 A FIRE IS BURNING THERE. 01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:24,160 DAVID THIBODEAU SAID HE WAS HERE 01:52:24,200 --> 01:52:25,520 AND SAW A FIREBALL 01:52:25,560 --> 01:52:27,480 THAT RAN THE FRONT LENGTH OF MT. CARMEL, 01:52:27,520 --> 01:52:29,720 POSSIBLY IGNITING ANOTHER FIRE HERE 01:52:29,720 --> 01:52:31,720 IN THE KITCHEN DINING ROOM AREA, 01:52:31,760 --> 01:52:33,400 RIGHT NEXT TO THE CONCRETE ROOM 01:52:33,440 --> 01:52:36,080 WHERE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN HAD BEEN GASSED EARLIER. 01:52:41,440 --> 01:52:43,480 ABOUT A MINUTE AFTER THE FRONT FIREBALL 01:52:43,480 --> 01:52:44,400 THIBODEAU SAW, 01:52:44,440 --> 01:52:47,000 ANOTHER ARMOURED VEHICLE DRIVES UP TO THE REAR 01:52:47,040 --> 01:52:50,680 OF THE CRUSHED GYMNASIUM AND ALSO PULLS AWAY. 01:52:50,720 --> 01:52:53,520 A FEW SECONDS LATER, SURVIVOR DEREK LOVELOCK 01:52:53,520 --> 01:52:54,840 SAYS A FIREBALL 01:52:54,840 --> 01:52:57,200 RACED FROM THE REAR OF MT. CARMEL TO THE FRONT, 01:52:57,240 --> 01:52:59,760 IGNITING EVERYTHING IN ITS PATH. 01:53:01,640 --> 01:53:02,760 - AT THIS POINT, 01:53:02,800 --> 01:53:05,160 THE BACK OF THE GYM WAS THOROUGHLY DESTROYED. 01:53:05,160 --> 01:53:06,240 IT GREATLY DISTURBED ME. 01:53:06,280 --> 01:53:08,000 AT THAT POINT, I'D LOST ALL HOPE. 01:53:08,040 --> 01:53:09,880 AT 12:00, SOMEONE YELLED FROM THE UPSTAIRS 01:53:09,920 --> 01:53:11,960 THAT THERE WAS A FIRE. 01:53:12,000 --> 01:53:14,120 THE FRONT, I COULD NOT GET TO THE FRONT 01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:16,000 BECAUSE OF WHERE THE TANKS HAD COME IN, 01:53:16,040 --> 01:53:17,840 THE STAIRWELL THAT WAS CLOSEST TO THE FRONT. 01:53:17,880 --> 01:53:19,920 SO I WENT TO THE STAIRWELL IN THE BACK, 01:53:19,960 --> 01:53:21,800 'CAUSE I'M THINKING THE KIDS. 01:53:21,840 --> 01:53:23,760 I'M THINKING SERENITY C. JONES, 01:53:23,800 --> 01:53:25,880 I WAS THINKING OF ISAIAH, AND JOSEPH, 01:53:25,920 --> 01:53:27,400 SOME OF THESE KIDS I'VE COME TO KNOW 01:53:27,440 --> 01:53:28,440 AND LOVE. 01:53:30,640 --> 01:53:33,560 I GET UP THERE, AND THERE WAS A CATWALK 01:53:33,600 --> 01:53:36,360 THAT WAS LEADING OVER THE RAFTERS OF THE CHURCH AREA. 01:53:36,400 --> 01:53:38,080 I WALKED TO THE FRONT 01:53:38,120 --> 01:53:41,000 I GOT TO A BLANKET. I OPENED THE BLANKET UP 01:53:41,040 --> 01:53:44,600 AND A WALL OF FLAME SHOOTS DOWN THE HALLWAY IN FRONT OF MY FACE 01:53:44,640 --> 01:53:46,600 DOWN TO THE OTHER END OF THE BUILDING. 01:53:46,640 --> 01:53:48,400 IT WAS THE LOUDEST SOUND I'VE EVER HEARD IN MY LIFE. 01:53:48,440 --> 01:53:51,680 I'M A DRUMMER, AND IT WAS INCREDIBLY LOUD. 01:53:51,720 --> 01:53:54,040 I COULD NOT HEAR ANYTHING ELSE OTHER THAN THIS FLAME. 01:53:54,080 --> 01:53:55,640 DO YOU KNOW HOW THE FIRE STARTED? 01:53:55,640 --> 01:53:56,520 - NO. 01:53:57,920 --> 01:54:00,360 THE PLACE IS BEGINNING TO FILL UP WITH BLACK SMOKE 01:54:00,400 --> 01:54:03,000 AND ME AND SCOTT WERE STILL THERE BY THE STAIRS 01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:06,640 AND THERE WAS THIS KIND OF BALL OF FIRE 01:54:06,680 --> 01:54:08,600 WITH TREMENDOUS HEAT 01:54:08,640 --> 01:54:11,880 WHICH CAUSED US TO JUMP BACK OUT OF THE WAY. 01:54:11,920 --> 01:54:13,880 IT CAME FROM ACROSS, 01:54:13,920 --> 01:54:16,960 IT CAME FROM... 01:54:17,000 --> 01:54:19,760 THE GYM AREA ACROSS THIS WAY. 01:54:20,280 --> 01:54:21,600 - IT'S BELIEVED THE FIREBALL 01:54:21,640 --> 01:54:25,280 DEREK LOVELOCK SAID HE SAW STARTED HERE WITH THIS FLASH. 01:54:31,200 --> 01:54:33,000 - THAT FLASH WAS SO BRIGHT, 01:54:33,040 --> 01:54:35,920 THE OPERATOR OF THE FLIR THOUGHT IT WAS SO SIGNIFICANT 01:54:35,960 --> 01:54:40,600 THAT HE DECIDED TO FIX HIS CURSOR IN THAT AREA 01:54:40,640 --> 01:54:43,600 TO REMIND HIM, OR OTHER PEOPLE LOOKING AT THE TAPE, 01:54:43,640 --> 01:54:46,560 THAT THERE WAS A VERY SIGNIFICANT FLASH 01:54:46,600 --> 01:54:48,040 IN THE WINDOW. 01:54:48,920 --> 01:54:52,240 WHEN WE SEE IT IN SLOW MOTION AND WE SEE THE FLASH, 01:54:52,240 --> 01:54:55,880 IT APPEARS TO BE A SINGLE FLASH BUT IT IS NOT A SINGLE FLASH. 01:54:55,920 --> 01:54:58,480 IT'S ACTUALLY TWO FLASHES. 01:54:58,520 --> 01:55:02,040 WE GET A PRIMARY FLASH AND A SECONDARY FLASH. 01:55:02,080 --> 01:55:04,080 BOTH OF THESE FLASHES 01:55:04,120 --> 01:55:07,440 LAST ABOUT ONE-HALF-SECOND EACH. 01:55:07,480 --> 01:55:10,240 THEY'RE MOST LIKELY DETONATIONS 01:55:10,280 --> 01:55:13,440 INSIDE THE BUILDING ITSELF. 01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:17,480 - NOW IF SOME OF YOU JUST SAW THIS FLASH HERE, 01:55:17,520 --> 01:55:19,480 THAT IS A MOMENTARY EVENT. 01:55:19,520 --> 01:55:22,480 IN MY OPINION, THAT'S A REFLECTION DUE TO SUNLIGHT 01:55:22,520 --> 01:55:25,360 REFLECTING OFF SOME OBJECT IN THAT DEBRIS. 01:55:30,480 --> 01:55:32,960 SUNLIGHT REFLECTIONS WOULD SHOW UP AS A FLASH 01:55:32,960 --> 01:55:35,240 ON REGULAR FILM WHICH RECORDS LIGHT. 01:55:35,280 --> 01:55:37,320 BUT REFLECTIONS DON'T GENERATE ENOUGH HEAT, 01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:41,720 SAY SPECIALISTS LIKE ALLARD, TO CREATE A FLASH ON INFRA-RED. 01:55:49,080 --> 01:55:51,880 INFRASPECTION ANALYSTS NOTICED THE SAME FLASH. 01:56:02,840 --> 01:56:05,040 - THE FBI MADE IT CLEAR FROM THE BEGINNING, 01:56:05,040 --> 01:56:07,480 IT USED NOTHING THAT COULD'VE STARTED A FIRE. 01:56:08,000 --> 01:56:11,240 - NON-PYROTECHNIC DELIVERY SYSTEMS WERE UTILIZED 01:56:11,280 --> 01:56:13,320 TO INSERT C.S. GAS. 01:56:13,320 --> 01:56:15,920 - PYROTECHNIC DEVICES ACTUALLY BURN, 01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:18,520 AND AS THEY DO, TEAR GAS IS DISPERSED. 01:56:23,320 --> 01:56:25,680 - THIS PYROTECHNIC PROJECTILE IS ONE OF TWO 01:56:25,720 --> 01:56:28,840 FOUND IN THE RUBBLE OF MT. CARMEL. 01:56:29,080 --> 01:56:31,320 IT'S A 40MM MILITARY DEVICE 01:56:31,360 --> 01:56:33,960 THAT'S FIRED FROM A HANDHELD GRENADE LAUNCHER. 01:56:34,800 --> 01:56:36,640 THIS ONE WAS FOUND HERE, 01:56:36,680 --> 01:56:38,320 NEAR THE CORNER OF MT. CARMEL 01:56:38,360 --> 01:56:40,280 WHERE THE FIRST FIRE STARTED. 01:56:40,320 --> 01:56:41,720 THE OTHER WAS FOUND HERE, 01:56:41,760 --> 01:56:43,960 IN THE KITCHEN DINNING ROOM AREA. 01:56:51,080 --> 01:56:54,040 20 SECONDS AFTER THE TWO GYMNASIUM FLASHES 01:56:54,080 --> 01:56:56,160 STILL MORE AUTOMATIC GUNFIRE CAN BE SEEN 01:56:56,200 --> 01:56:57,240 COMING FROM THE FIELD 01:56:57,280 --> 01:56:59,400 TO THE LEFT OF THE DEMOLITION TANK. 01:57:05,400 --> 01:57:09,960 WE COUNTED THE NUMBER OF GUN FLASHES, 01:57:09,960 --> 01:57:11,840 AND IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE 01:57:11,880 --> 01:57:14,160 WE GOT SIX FLASHES 01:57:14,160 --> 01:57:15,680 IN ONE SECOND, 01:57:15,680 --> 01:57:16,760 WHICH INDICATES 01:57:16,760 --> 01:57:20,080 IT'S A RAPID-FIRE WEAPON OF SOME KIND. 01:57:21,040 --> 01:57:24,400 AND WE ALSO CAN SEE FROM THE TAPES 01:57:24,440 --> 01:57:26,880 THAT THE FIRE IS GOING IN THIS DIRECTION 01:57:26,920 --> 01:57:30,080 TOWARDS THE GYMNASIUM 01:57:30,120 --> 01:57:33,040 WHERE WE SAW THE FLASH IN THE WINDOW. 01:57:36,840 --> 01:57:46,000 DRAMATIC MUSIC 01:57:56,520 --> 01:58:04,400 DRAMATIC MUSIC 01:58:31,840 --> 01:58:35,120 'CAUSE WHEN THE FIRE DID START, 01:58:35,160 --> 01:58:36,960 AND THE FIRE TRUCKS DID ARRIVE, 01:58:37,000 --> 01:58:40,200 I DIDN'T LET THEM IN. I HELD THEM AT THE CHECKPOINT 01:58:40,200 --> 01:58:41,760 BECAUSE I DIDN'T WANT THE FIREMEN 01:58:41,800 --> 01:58:43,600 TO DRIVE INTO GUNFIRE. 01:58:43,640 --> 01:58:45,760 I JUST WASN'T GOING TO PERMIT IT. 01:58:45,760 --> 01:58:47,280 IT'S A TERRIBLE THING 01:58:47,320 --> 01:58:50,680 AND A VERY TERRIBLE DECISION TO HAVE TO MAKE. 01:58:50,720 --> 01:58:53,280 BUT I DIDN'T HESITATE, IT WASN'T THAT, 01:58:53,320 --> 01:58:56,000 IT TOOK ME TWO SECONDS TO MAKE IT, 01:58:56,040 --> 01:58:59,640 BUT WE HELD THE FIRE TRUCKS. SO THAT WAS OUR FIRE PLANNING. 01:59:03,040 --> 01:59:04,600 MOST OF THE REMAINING DAVIDIANS 01:59:04,640 --> 01:59:06,080 WERE CONCENTRATED HERE, 01:59:06,080 --> 01:59:08,120 IN THE KITCHEN DINING ROOM AREA. 01:59:08,160 --> 01:59:11,240 IT WAS THEIR ONLY WAY OUT EXCEPT FOR ONE THING, 01:59:11,280 --> 01:59:15,360 TWO MEN OUTSIDE WERE FIRING MACHINE GUNS AT THEM. 01:59:27,560 --> 01:59:31,000 - IN THE 51 DAYS THE FBI WAS INVOLVED, 01:59:31,040 --> 01:59:33,160 THEY DID NOT FIRE A SINGLE SHOT. 01:59:33,200 --> 01:59:37,240 FIRST, THAT WOULD MEAN QUITE CERTAINLY 01:59:37,280 --> 01:59:42,160 THAT 27 OF THE PEOPLE WHO DIED IN THE COMPOUND, 01:59:42,200 --> 01:59:44,160 I THINK THE AUTOPSY REPORTS SHOW 27, 01:59:44,200 --> 01:59:48,160 I MAY BE OFF BY ONE OR TWO, WHO DIED OF BULLET WOUNDS, 01:59:48,200 --> 01:59:50,000 THOSE WERE SELF-INFLICTED 01:59:50,040 --> 01:59:51,920 OR WERE INFLICTED BY OTHER MEMBERS 01:59:51,960 --> 01:59:54,240 WITHIN THE COMPOUND. 01:59:58,280 --> 02:00:00,640 THESE ARE EMBERS THAT ARE FLYING OFF THE BUILDING, 02:00:00,680 --> 02:00:03,840 BUT YOU CAN SEE UP IN HERE THAT THIS IS RAPID GUNFIRE. 02:00:05,600 --> 02:00:08,320 WHEN WE ANALYSED THE TAPE WE FOUND OUT 02:00:08,360 --> 02:00:12,040 THAT THERE'S TWO PEOPLE THERE IN THIS AREA HERE, 02:00:12,040 --> 02:00:14,720 AND THEY'RE FIRING FOR ABOUT 30 SECONDS 02:00:14,720 --> 02:00:19,000 IN THIS AREA RIGHT HERE WHERE WE HAVE THE BURNING 02:00:19,040 --> 02:00:20,680 DINING ROOM AREA. 02:00:20,920 --> 02:00:24,760 AND, IT'S ALMOST CONTINUOUS GUNFIRE. 02:00:24,800 --> 02:00:28,840 TOWARDS THE END OF THIS PARTICULAR SECTION 02:00:29,040 --> 02:00:32,360 WE FIND OUT THAT THE PEOPLE DOING THE SHOOTING 02:00:32,400 --> 02:00:34,840 ARE ACTUALLY RETREATING AWAY FROM THE FIRE 02:00:34,880 --> 02:00:37,600 AND SHOOTING AS THEY'RE RETREATING. 02:00:39,360 --> 02:00:41,200 - THE MACHINE GUNNING OF THE DAVIDIANS 02:00:41,200 --> 02:00:42,920 TRAPPED IN THE BURNING KITCHEN DINING ROOM 02:00:42,960 --> 02:00:45,880 WAS NOT ONLY VISIBLE TO CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATORS, 02:00:45,920 --> 02:00:48,800 IT WAS EVEN VISIBLE TO HOME VIEWERS. 02:00:58,080 --> 02:01:00,200 SO WAS THE GUNFIRE BEHIND THE TANK 02:01:00,240 --> 02:01:02,240 SMASHING INTO THE REAR OF THE GYMNASIUM. 02:01:06,760 --> 02:01:08,560 NEITHER WAS MENTIONED, DESPITE THE FACT 02:01:08,600 --> 02:01:11,160 THE FLIR TAPE SHOWN TO THE JOINT COMMITTEE 02:01:11,200 --> 02:01:12,960 HAD FAR BETTER CLARITY 02:01:13,000 --> 02:01:15,520 THAN THE COPY USED IN THIS FILM. 02:01:16,520 --> 02:01:19,840 DRAMATIC MUSIC 02:01:22,080 --> 02:01:25,160 WE COULD SEE THE FLAMES REAL GOOD FROM HERE. 02:01:31,760 --> 02:01:39,520 DRAMATIC MUSIC 02:01:43,360 --> 02:01:45,640 THERE CAME A POINT 02:01:45,680 --> 02:01:49,040 IN MY ROLLING ON THE FLOOR AND TRYING TO PROTECT MYSELF 02:01:49,080 --> 02:01:50,920 FROM THE HEAT AND BEING IN THE PITCH BLACK, 02:01:50,960 --> 02:01:52,040 NOT ABLE TO SEE, 02:01:52,040 --> 02:01:54,680 THAT THE VOICES OF THOSE BEHIND ME SCREAMING... 02:01:56,480 --> 02:01:58,720 KIND OF GOT THROUGH TO ME. 02:02:05,320 --> 02:02:09,280 I RECOGNIZED WHO THEY WERE. 02:02:09,320 --> 02:02:11,800 I COULD IDENTIFY THE VOICES. 02:02:11,840 --> 02:02:14,240 THAT KIND OF GALVANIZED ME 02:02:14,240 --> 02:02:16,480 TO JUST LEAP TO MY FEET AND JUMP 02:02:16,520 --> 02:02:18,960 OR DIVE HEAD FIRST IN THE GENERAL DIRECTION 02:02:19,000 --> 02:02:21,680 OF WHERE I FIGURED THE HOLE WAS. 02:02:21,720 --> 02:02:23,760 WHEN I STOOD UP 02:02:23,800 --> 02:02:27,320 SKIN WAS ROLLING OFF MY HANDS, 02:02:27,360 --> 02:02:31,200 MY COAT WAS ALL MELTED ON MY BACK AND SMOKING. 02:02:32,160 --> 02:02:34,400 I LOOKED BACK OVER MY SHOULDER, 02:02:34,440 --> 02:02:36,880 AND THE HOLE I'D JUST COME OUT WAS A MASS OF FLAMES. 02:02:38,880 --> 02:02:41,800 AND THE FIRST THOUGHT THAT CAME TO ME WAS, 02:02:41,840 --> 02:02:43,800 "I'M THE ONLY ONE." 02:02:43,840 --> 02:02:45,400 SNIFFLES 02:02:50,080 --> 02:02:52,440 - I WOULD FEEL BETTER IF I COULD'VE GONE IN 02:02:52,440 --> 02:02:55,120 AND GOT HIM OUT WITHOUT ANY OF THIS MESS. 02:02:57,360 --> 02:02:59,040 THEY DIDN'T WANT HIM TO COME OUT. 02:02:59,040 --> 02:03:00,640 THEY WANTED TO KILL HIM. 02:03:00,680 --> 02:03:02,880 - THE FIRE WAS JUST GOING ON AND ON 02:03:02,920 --> 02:03:04,320 AND WE REALIZED NOBODY CAME OUT, 02:03:04,320 --> 02:03:05,880 THINKING MAYBE MY HUSBAND DIDN'T GET OUT, 02:03:05,880 --> 02:03:07,480 BUT MY CHILDREN GOT OUT. 02:03:08,160 --> 02:03:10,640 HORRIBLE, HORRIBLE WAY TO DIE. 02:03:10,680 --> 02:03:13,240 I TRY NOT TO THINK ABOUT IT BECAUSE I KEEP THINKING 02:03:13,240 --> 02:03:15,320 AT SOME POINT THEY FELT ALL THAT HEAT. 02:03:15,360 --> 02:03:17,200 I KEPT THINKING THE PEOPLE IN THE SQUARE, 02:03:17,240 --> 02:03:21,240 THEY WERE THE ONES WHO MAYBE, THEY PROBABLY COOKED TO DEATH. 02:03:21,280 --> 02:03:23,120 I THINK IT WAS TO BE THIS TRAGEDY 02:03:23,120 --> 02:03:26,240 TO SHOW WHAT KIND OF A PEOPLE WE HAVE AS A GOVERNMENT. 02:03:27,840 --> 02:03:30,800 - AS SOON AS THE BRANCH DAVIDIAN STAR OF DAVID FLAG 02:03:30,800 --> 02:03:32,400 HAD FLUTTERED TO THE GROUND, 02:03:32,400 --> 02:03:35,000 THEY RAN THE ATF FLAG UP ON THAT FLAGPOLE 02:03:35,000 --> 02:03:37,800 AS A SYMBOL OF A MILITARY CONQUEST. 02:03:37,840 --> 02:03:40,640 BECAUSE THE WHOLE WORLD SAW THIS AS A SYMBOL 02:03:40,640 --> 02:03:42,880 THAT THE BATTLE WAS OVER. 02:03:44,800 --> 02:03:47,080 - I LOVE THIS COUNTRY, I LOVE THE FLAG, 02:03:47,080 --> 02:03:49,800 I LOVE SAYING THE PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE. 02:03:49,840 --> 02:03:51,680 I STILL CRY AT THE NATIONAL ANTHEM. 02:03:51,720 --> 02:03:53,640 I HOPE, NOT ONLY LAW ENFORCEMENT, 02:03:53,680 --> 02:03:56,280 BUT I HOPE EVERYONE DOES THAT. 02:03:56,320 --> 02:03:58,120 THE FBI IS NOT, 02:03:58,160 --> 02:04:00,640 AS WE'VE BEEN LABELLED FOR THE PAST TWO YEARS, 02:04:00,680 --> 02:04:05,880 ANTI-RELIGIOUS RIGHTS, OR ANTI-PERSONAL RIGHTS. 02:04:05,920 --> 02:04:08,960 WE HAVE PLENTY OF FREEDOMS IN THIS COUNTRY, WHICH I LOVE. 02:04:08,960 --> 02:04:11,040 WE HAVE THE FREEDOMS TO STOCKPILE WEAPONS. 02:04:11,080 --> 02:04:12,360 I KNOW I'M A CHRISTIAN, 02:04:12,400 --> 02:04:14,200 I LIKE PRACTISING MY CHRISTIAN BELIEFS. 02:04:14,200 --> 02:04:17,520 I KNOW I'M GOING TO HEAVEN WHEN I DIE, WITH MY KIDS. 02:04:17,560 --> 02:04:19,920 I TEACH, IN CHARGE OF THE NURSERY, 02:04:19,960 --> 02:04:22,440 USED TO DO SUNDAY SCHOOL YOUTH GROUP LEADER. 02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:24,600 IF SOMEONE TRIES TO STOP ME FROM DOING THAT, 02:04:24,640 --> 02:04:26,120 OBVIOUSLY I'M GOING TO BE UPSET. 02:04:26,160 --> 02:04:29,280 BUT THAT DOES NOT GIVE ME THE RIGHT TO GO KILL SOMEONE, 02:04:29,320 --> 02:04:33,080 GO TO MY HOUSE USING MY CHILDREN AS SHIELDS, 02:04:33,120 --> 02:04:34,640 AND SAY, "I'M NOT COMING OUT. 02:04:34,680 --> 02:04:35,720 I'VE BROKEN THE LAW, 02:04:35,760 --> 02:04:37,920 I'M NOT COMING OUT UNTIL GOD TELLS ME TO." 02:04:37,920 --> 02:04:39,160 THAT IS WRONG. 02:04:39,200 --> 02:04:42,160 THE HEARINGS HAVE BEEN ON FOR NINE DAYS OR SO. 02:04:42,200 --> 02:04:44,160 I'M GOING TO SAY THIS AS NICELY AS I CAN, 02:04:44,200 --> 02:04:45,720 BECAUSE A COUPLE OF PEOPLE HAVE SAID, 02:04:45,720 --> 02:04:48,400 "WHAT CAN WE LEARN FROM THIS?" 02:04:48,440 --> 02:04:51,000 IN NINE DAYS, I CAN'T LEARN TO BE A LEGISLATOR. 02:04:51,040 --> 02:04:52,280 IN NINE DAYS, 02:04:52,280 --> 02:04:56,000 Y'ALL CAN'T LEARN TO BE LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS. 02:04:56,040 --> 02:04:58,640 BYRON, FLOYD CLARK, 02:04:58,680 --> 02:05:01,640 JEFF JAMAR, DICK ROGERS, LIKE 'EM OR NOT, 02:05:01,680 --> 02:05:03,680 LIKE WHAT WE DO FOR A LIVING OR NOT, 02:05:03,720 --> 02:05:05,960 THEY'VE BEEN LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICERS, 02:05:06,000 --> 02:05:08,720 SOME OF THEM, LONGER THAN I'VE BEEN ALIVE. 02:05:08,760 --> 02:05:11,360 AND WITH THAT COMES A LOT OF EXPERIENCE. 02:05:11,400 --> 02:05:13,400 WHAT I'M SAYING IS, 02:05:13,440 --> 02:05:15,640 YOU HAVE TO TRUST THE PEOPLE IN CHARGE 02:05:15,680 --> 02:05:17,920 AT THE TIME. 02:05:17,960 --> 02:05:19,440 I'M LOW ON THE FOOD CHAIN, 02:05:19,480 --> 02:05:21,640 SO I'M STANDING BY WHAT THEY DID. 02:05:21,680 --> 02:05:24,840 'CAUSE I DO WHAT I'M TOLD, AS LONG AS IT'S LEGAL AND MORAL. 02:05:25,280 --> 02:05:27,280 MY GOD! 02:05:27,320 --> 02:05:30,160 TORTURING BABIES... 02:05:30,200 --> 02:05:33,160 AND SAYING, "IT'S PART OF THEIR JOB"?! 02:05:33,200 --> 02:05:34,200 AND SAYING, 02:05:34,200 --> 02:05:37,440 "IT'S OKAY, BECAUSE THEIR PARENTS WERE BAD"? 02:05:37,440 --> 02:05:38,840 OUR WHOLE SOCIETY 02:05:38,880 --> 02:05:40,040 IS STRUCTURED AROUND THE NOTION 02:05:40,080 --> 02:05:42,840 THAT IF PARENTS ARE BAD WE PROTECT THE CHILDREN 02:05:42,880 --> 02:05:44,880 EVEN AGAINST THE PARENTS. 02:05:44,920 --> 02:05:46,280 IN THIS CASE, 02:05:46,320 --> 02:05:48,760 THE FBI AND THE GOVERNMENT TOOK THE POSITION, 02:05:48,760 --> 02:05:51,840 "NOT ONLY DO WE NOT PROTECT THE CHILDREN, 02:05:51,880 --> 02:05:53,640 WE USE THEM AS AN INSTRUMENT 02:05:53,680 --> 02:05:55,400 TO TRY TO GET THEIR PARENTS TO DO SOMETHING. 02:05:55,400 --> 02:05:57,520 WE'LL TORTURE THEM 02:05:57,560 --> 02:05:59,640 SO THEIR PARENTS WILL DO RIGHT." 02:05:59,680 --> 02:06:03,560 OH, MY GOD, WHERE DID THEY THINK THAT UP? 02:06:04,000 --> 02:06:06,560 - WE THOUGHT THAT THEIR INSTINCTS, 02:06:06,600 --> 02:06:09,080 THEIR MOTHERLY INSTINCTS WOULD TAKE PLACE 02:06:09,080 --> 02:06:10,240 AND THAT THEY WOULD 02:06:10,280 --> 02:06:11,680 WANT THEIR CHILDREN OUT OF THAT ENVIRONMENT. 02:06:11,680 --> 02:06:13,960 IT APPEARS THEY DON'T CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT THEIR CHILDREN, 02:06:13,960 --> 02:06:15,920 WHICH IS UNFORTUNATE. 02:06:22,240 --> 02:06:24,800 - THE BACKWARD BOWED CORPSE OF THIS EIGHT-YEAR-OLD GIRL 02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:27,480 SHOWS WHAT CYANIDE DOES TO THE HUMAN BODY. 02:06:27,520 --> 02:06:30,080 IT MAKES THE MUSCLES CONTRACT SO VIOLENTLY 02:06:30,120 --> 02:06:32,920 THAT THEY CAN ACTUALLY BREAK BONES. 02:06:33,440 --> 02:06:37,080 - IF ONE REVIEWS THE VARIOUS 02:06:37,400 --> 02:06:38,840 USE OF CYANIDE 02:06:38,880 --> 02:06:42,680 AS A METHOD OF PUTTING PRISONERS TO DEATH, 02:06:42,720 --> 02:06:46,880 YOU'LL NOTE THAT THESE PEOPLE ARE STRAPPED IN THEIR CHAIRS 02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:48,320 VERY HEAVILY. 02:06:48,360 --> 02:06:51,040 THAT'S NOT TO PREVENT THEM FROM ESCAPING THE GAS, 02:06:51,080 --> 02:06:52,440 THAT'S TO PREVENT THE INDIVIDUALS 02:06:52,480 --> 02:06:54,120 WATCHING THE EXECUTION 02:06:54,160 --> 02:06:55,920 FROM OBSERVING THE EFFECTS CYANIDE HAS 02:06:55,920 --> 02:06:58,560 ON THE MUSCLES OF THE INDIVIDUAL. 02:07:03,200 --> 02:07:07,200 DRAMATIC MUSIC 02:07:09,840 --> 02:07:12,480 AS PART OF THE EVIDENCE RESPONSE TEAM, 02:07:12,520 --> 02:07:15,920 I WAS ONE OF THE PRIMARY PHOTOGRAPHERS 02:07:15,960 --> 02:07:17,560 THAT HAD TO PHOTOGRAPH THE EVIDENCE 02:07:17,600 --> 02:07:19,280 BEFORE IT WAS RECOVERED 02:07:19,320 --> 02:07:21,240 AND AS IT WAS BEING RECOVERED 02:07:21,240 --> 02:07:23,760 AND PLACED INTO THE APPROPRIATE BAGS. 02:07:24,720 --> 02:07:28,680 I PHOTOGRAPHED AND PROCESSED DAVID KORESH'S LIVING QUARTERS. 02:07:29,560 --> 02:07:33,000 AND I ALSO PHOTOGRAPHED 02:07:33,040 --> 02:07:35,240 ALL OF THE BODIES FROM WHAT IS TERMED 02:07:35,280 --> 02:07:36,880 "THE BUNKER." 02:07:40,320 --> 02:07:45,520 HAVING BEEN IN A POSITION TO WALK, 02:07:45,560 --> 02:07:48,600 TOUCH, FEEL, HOLD, 02:07:48,600 --> 02:07:50,840 PHOTOGRAPH, OBSERVE... 02:07:52,240 --> 02:07:56,240 A GREAT MAJORITY OF THE BODIES IN WACO, 02:07:57,320 --> 02:08:00,880 I'M LEFT WITH AN OVERALL DISTURBING... 02:08:02,800 --> 02:08:04,880 HAUNTING OPINION, 02:08:05,560 --> 02:08:08,160 THAT MANY OF THE PEOPLE IN THE 02:08:08,160 --> 02:08:11,280 RESIDENCE WERE HOMICIDE VICTIMS. 02:08:15,320 --> 02:08:17,840 - ONE OF THE FBI OFFICIALS TOLD DR. PEERWANI 02:08:17,880 --> 02:08:20,400 THAT THEY DID NOT WANT US THERE 02:08:20,440 --> 02:08:22,160 BECAUSE THEY WANTED TO DO IT THEMSELVES. 02:08:22,200 --> 02:08:25,120 - THE FBI LAB WAS EXTREMELY IN A HURRY 02:08:25,160 --> 02:08:27,920 TO GET THE EVIDENCE FROM US AND IT TOOK US SEVERAL WEEKS 02:08:27,960 --> 02:08:31,880 TO GO THROUGH LITERALLY THOUSANDS OF ROUNDS. 02:08:31,920 --> 02:08:34,160 ALL THE BULLETS, BULLET CARTRIDGES, 02:08:34,200 --> 02:08:35,880 FRAGMENTS OF GRENADES, 02:08:35,920 --> 02:08:39,520 THEY WERE ALL TURNED OVER TO THE FBI LAB. 02:08:42,920 --> 02:08:45,760 NO INDEPENDENT EXAMINATION OF ANY OF THAT EVIDENCE 02:08:45,800 --> 02:08:49,040 HAS BEEN ALLOWED, INCLUDING THE ILLEGAL FIREARMS 02:08:49,080 --> 02:08:52,080 THE FBI SAYS WERE FOUND IN THE RUBBLE. 02:08:52,800 --> 02:08:55,400 - IS THAT A WEAPON, ILLEGAL, 02:08:55,440 --> 02:08:57,880 THAT YOU FOUND AT THE COMPOUND? 02:08:57,920 --> 02:09:01,480 - THIS IS AN AK-47 TYPE RIFLE THAT HAS BEEN CONVERTED 02:09:01,520 --> 02:09:03,200 TO PERMIT FULL AUTOMATIC FIRE. 02:09:03,200 --> 02:09:05,160 -MAKING IT ILLEGAL? YES, SIR. 02:09:14,600 --> 02:09:17,400 I WAS PANNING THE WHOLE SITE 02:09:17,440 --> 02:09:19,880 AND ONE OF THE RANGERS CAME UP BEHIND ME 02:09:19,920 --> 02:09:22,880 WHILE I WAS STILL TAPING AND HIT ME ON THE SHOULDER, 02:09:22,920 --> 02:09:25,320 AND SAID, "YOU CAN'T BE DOING THAT." 02:09:25,360 --> 02:09:27,960 SO I SAID, "OKAY, THAT'S FINE, NO PROBLEM." 02:09:28,000 --> 02:09:30,400 THEN HE ASKED FOR THE TAPE. 02:09:30,440 --> 02:09:33,280 I SAID, "I'M SHOOTING FOR DR. PEERWANI. 02:09:33,320 --> 02:09:35,000 I'M NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU THE TAPE 02:09:35,040 --> 02:09:36,400 UNTIL HE SAYS IT'S OKAY." 02:09:36,440 --> 02:09:38,440 FINALLY WE FOUND DR. PEERWANI, 02:09:38,480 --> 02:09:40,520 TALKED TO HIM, AND HE AGREED 02:09:40,560 --> 02:09:42,440 THAT IT WAS OKAY FOR ME TO GIVE THEM THE TAPE, 02:09:42,440 --> 02:09:44,280 SO I DID. 02:09:44,320 --> 02:09:45,400 THEY PROMISED US 02:09:45,440 --> 02:09:46,880 ALL THEY WANTED TO DO WAS REVIEW IT, 02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:49,080 AND THEY WOULD GIVE IT BACK TO US THE NEXT DAY. 02:09:49,120 --> 02:09:51,480 AND THEY DIDN'T. 02:09:51,520 --> 02:09:54,320 THEY TOLD US THEY HAD MISPLACED IT. 02:09:54,360 --> 02:09:56,880 ONE TIME THEY TOLD US, "I HAVE IT IN MY BRIEFCASE 02:09:56,920 --> 02:09:58,440 AND I'LL GIVE IT TO YOU." 02:09:58,480 --> 02:10:00,720 IN FACT WE SAID, "WE'RE GOING TO DELAY GIVING THE REPORTS 02:10:00,760 --> 02:10:02,320 UNTIL YOU GIVE OUR TAPE BACK." 02:10:02,360 --> 02:10:05,240 OF COURSE THEY SAID, "SURE, WE'LL GIVE YOU THE TAPE BACK 02:10:05,240 --> 02:10:07,080 NEXT TIME WE COME TO YOUR OFFICE." 02:10:07,120 --> 02:10:09,360 WE, IN FACT, SUGGESTED WE WOULD GO TO WACO 02:10:09,360 --> 02:10:11,640 AND COLLECT THE TAPE FROM THEM. 02:10:11,640 --> 02:10:14,480 THEY SAID "NO, IT'S AT THE SAN ANTONIO OFFICE." 02:10:14,520 --> 02:10:18,320 AND AT A CERTAIN POINT ALONG THIS DISCUSSION 02:10:18,320 --> 02:10:20,600 THEY FINALLY SAID, "THE TAPE IS LOST. 02:10:20,640 --> 02:10:22,720 WE CAN'T GIVE IT TO YOU." 02:10:24,680 --> 02:10:26,520 IS THERE ANY DOUBT IN YOUR MIND 02:10:26,560 --> 02:10:27,640 OR THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT'S MIND, 02:10:27,640 --> 02:10:28,360 THAT THE FIRE 02:10:28,360 --> 02:10:29,880 WAS SET BY THE CULT MEMBERS? 02:10:29,920 --> 02:10:32,520 I HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT AT ALL 02:10:32,560 --> 02:10:34,920 THAT THE CULT MEMBERS SET IT BASED ON ALL THE INFORMATION 02:10:34,960 --> 02:10:37,720 THAT HAS BEEN FURNISHED TO ME. 02:10:37,760 --> 02:10:41,160 THE SURVIVORS WHO CAME OUT, THEIR CLOTHES SMELLED 02:10:41,160 --> 02:10:44,200 OF ACCELERANTS. THEY SMELLED... 02:10:44,240 --> 02:10:46,440 OF DIESEL FUEL, THEY SMELLED OF LANTERN FUEL, 02:10:46,440 --> 02:10:48,200 THEY SMELLED OF LIGHTER FLUID. 02:10:48,240 --> 02:10:50,840 THE LABORATORY LATER CAME BACK AND CONFIRMED 02:10:50,880 --> 02:10:52,240 THEY HAD DONE IT. 02:10:52,280 --> 02:10:54,200 - I WOULD LIKE TO KNOW WHY KEY INFORMATION 02:10:54,240 --> 02:10:56,560 AS TO HOW SOME OF THIS CONTAMINATION OCCURRED 02:10:56,560 --> 02:10:58,440 WAS OMITTED FROM THE REPORTS? 02:10:58,480 --> 02:11:00,400 SPECIFICALLY THOSE SURVIVORS 02:11:00,440 --> 02:11:03,360 WHO EXITED THE SOUTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING. 02:11:03,360 --> 02:11:05,240 THEY HAD TO WALK THROUGH AN AREA 02:11:05,280 --> 02:11:07,240 THAT WAS CONTAMINATED BY FUEL 02:11:07,280 --> 02:11:08,680 FROM LARGE TANKS SPILLED 02:11:08,720 --> 02:11:10,520 BY THE GOVERNMENT TANK OPERATIONS. 02:11:11,680 --> 02:11:13,440 THE THING THAT REALLY CONCERNS ME 02:11:13,440 --> 02:11:15,040 IS WHY THE BUILDING 02:11:15,040 --> 02:11:17,920 WAS SO TOTALLY DESTROYED AFTERWARDS. 02:11:17,920 --> 02:11:20,000 AFTER THE FIRE WAS OUT, 02:11:20,040 --> 02:11:22,680 THERE WAS NO FIREFIGHTING WHATSOEVER ATTEMPTED, 02:11:22,720 --> 02:11:25,160 AND THEN THE CRIME SCENE, AND IT WAS A CRIME SCENE, 02:11:25,200 --> 02:11:27,880 WAS TOTALLY, ABSOLUTELY DESTROYED. 02:11:27,920 --> 02:11:29,800 I'VE SEEN THIS HAPPEN BEFORE. 02:11:31,080 --> 02:11:33,400 DID YOU SEE THE FBI 02:11:33,400 --> 02:11:35,880 CHANGING THE CRIME SCENE IN ANY WAY? 02:11:35,920 --> 02:11:38,600 YES, SIR. I HAD SAID EARLIER, 02:11:38,640 --> 02:11:40,640 AND DIDN'T GET TO FINISH THE ANSWER, 02:11:40,640 --> 02:11:45,840 THEY WERE MOVING THE VEHICLES AHEM, WHICH... 02:11:45,880 --> 02:11:48,120 DESTROYED VALUABLE TRAJECTORY EVIDENCE. 02:11:48,160 --> 02:11:50,040 IN THE END IT TURNED OUT IT DIDN'T MATTER, 02:11:50,080 --> 02:11:51,560 BECAUSE THE STRUCTURE BURNED, 02:11:51,600 --> 02:11:53,880 - BUT IT DIDN'T SEEM TO BE STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE? 02:11:53,920 --> 02:11:55,160 YOU DON'T CONSIDER 02:11:55,200 --> 02:11:56,920 THAT STANDARD OPERATING PROCEDURE, DO YOU? 02:11:56,960 --> 02:11:57,880 CERTAINLY NOT 02:11:57,920 --> 02:11:59,560 IN ANY CRIME SCENE I'VE EVER BEEN ON, NO. 02:11:59,880 --> 02:12:03,000 WE WERE COMMISSIONED EARLY ON IN THIS 02:12:03,040 --> 02:12:06,480 AS DEPUTY UNITED STATES MARSHALS TO CARRY A SPECIAL COMMISSION 02:12:06,520 --> 02:12:08,840 SO THAT WE COULD PROSECUTE FEDERALLY 02:12:08,880 --> 02:12:12,480 ANYONE THAT LIED TO US. AND WE FEEL REAL COMFORTABLE, 02:12:12,520 --> 02:12:15,400 AND CAPTAIN BYRNE DOES, THAT WE WERE LIED TO. 02:12:15,440 --> 02:12:17,640 - LET ME BE CLEAR. THIS INVESTIGATION 02:12:17,680 --> 02:12:19,680 HAS NOT UNCOVERED ANY EVIDENCE 02:12:19,720 --> 02:12:22,600 OF POLITICAL CORRUPTION OR INFLUENCES. 02:12:22,600 --> 02:12:24,520 WE HAVE NOT FOUND ANY OF THAT. 02:12:24,560 --> 02:12:28,600 THERE WAS NO CONSPIRACY TO KILL BRANCH DAVIDIANS. 02:12:28,640 --> 02:12:30,680 - THE RECORD OF THE WACO INCIDENT 02:12:30,720 --> 02:12:32,680 DOCUMENTS MISTAKES. 02:12:32,720 --> 02:12:36,320 WHAT THE RECORD FROM WACO DOES NOT EVIDENCE, HOWEVER, 02:12:36,360 --> 02:12:39,160 IS ANY IMPROPER MOTIVE OR INTENT 02:12:39,200 --> 02:12:42,080 ON THE PART OF LAW ENFORCEMENT. 02:12:42,120 --> 02:12:46,760 DAVID KORESH AND THE DAVIDIANS SET FIRE TO THEMSELVES 02:12:46,800 --> 02:12:48,440 AND COMMITTED SUICIDE. 02:12:48,440 --> 02:12:51,280 THE GOVERNMENT DID NOT DO THAT. 02:12:51,720 --> 02:12:54,520 THAT ASSERTION TO ME, 02:12:55,720 --> 02:12:59,360 THAT THE MEDIA AND THE GOVERNMENT 02:12:59,400 --> 02:13:04,520 HAS MADE A KIND OF BLANKET DECLARATION 02:13:04,560 --> 02:13:07,440 THAT THE BRANCH DAVIDIANS 02:13:07,480 --> 02:13:10,160 COMMITTED "MASS SUICIDE," 02:13:10,160 --> 02:13:12,760 TO EQUATE IT TO A JONESTOWN, 02:13:12,800 --> 02:13:17,120 GUYANA... SUICIDE, 02:13:17,120 --> 02:13:18,160 IS THE MOST 02:13:18,200 --> 02:13:21,800 IRRESPONSIBLE STATEMENT THAT CAN BE ATTRIBUTED 02:13:21,800 --> 02:13:27,040 TO ANYTHING HAVING TO DO WITH THE WACO INCIDENT. 02:13:27,080 --> 02:13:33,080 I FIND IT VERY OFFENDING TO ME, 02:13:33,120 --> 02:13:35,240 AND OFFENSIVE TO THE MEMORY OF THE DAVIDIANS 02:13:35,240 --> 02:13:37,880 AND EVERYONE ELSE INVOLVED IN THIS TRAGEDY 02:13:37,920 --> 02:13:41,040 TO WRAP IT UP IN A NICE CLEAN, 02:13:41,080 --> 02:13:44,000 "IT WAS JUST A MASS SUICIDE, END OF STORY." 02:13:44,040 --> 02:13:46,640 BECAUSE IT WAS FAR FROM THAT. 02:13:48,680 --> 02:13:51,480 - WHAT THE PEOPLE BELIEVE HAPPENED 02:13:51,520 --> 02:13:55,120 IS THAT GOD WAS GOING TO JUDGE EITHER THE WORLD OR THEM. 02:13:55,160 --> 02:13:59,320 IF IT JUDGED THE WORLD, THEY WOULD SURVIVE. 02:13:59,360 --> 02:14:01,080 IF IT JUDGED THEM, 02:14:01,120 --> 02:14:04,280 THEY WOULD PROMPTLY BE IN HEAVEN. 02:14:04,320 --> 02:14:06,600 AS ONE OF THEM AFTERWARDS SAID, 02:14:06,640 --> 02:14:10,240 LIVINGSTON FAGAN WHO LOST A WIFE IN THE FIRE 02:14:10,280 --> 02:14:13,160 AND HIS MOTHER IN THE FIRE, HE SAID, 02:14:13,200 --> 02:14:17,120 "THOSE OF OUR PEOPLE WHO DIED ARE HIGHLY HONOURED IN HEAVEN, 02:14:17,160 --> 02:14:20,120 AND SO WE SHOULD NOT WORRY ABOUT THEM." 02:14:20,120 --> 02:14:21,400 THE THOUGHT WAS THAT 02:14:21,440 --> 02:14:24,080 THE ARMY OF BABYLON WOULD KILL THEM, 02:14:24,120 --> 02:14:27,200 AS, PERHAPS, IT ULTIMATELY DID. 02:14:27,200 --> 02:14:29,440 - THE WAY THINGS ARE SUPPOSED TO HAPPEN IN THIS COUNTRY 02:14:29,480 --> 02:14:31,480 IS WHEN SOMEONE'S SUSPECTED OF A CRIME, 02:14:31,520 --> 02:14:35,080 EVEN IF IT'S CHILD ABUSE, EVEN IF IT'S CAPITAL MURDER, 02:14:35,120 --> 02:14:37,280 WE GIVE THEM A TRIAL, A JURY FINDS THEM GUILTY 02:14:37,320 --> 02:14:39,520 BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT BEFORE THEY GO TO SENTENCING 02:14:39,560 --> 02:14:41,400 THEN A JURY OR A JUDGE SENTENCES THEM, 02:14:41,440 --> 02:14:43,600 AND AN APPEALS COURT MAKES SURE 02:14:43,600 --> 02:14:45,680 THE TRIAL WAS CONDUCTED WITH DUE PROCESS. 02:14:45,720 --> 02:14:48,040 THEN, AND ONLY THEN, DO WE KILL THEM. 02:14:48,080 --> 02:14:50,560 WE DON'T KILL THEM FIRST, 02:14:50,600 --> 02:14:52,280 LIKE HAPPENED IN WACO 02:14:52,320 --> 02:14:54,400 ON APRIL THE 19TH .