(0:00:00.18)

News anchor: And back now to the tragic news we told about off the top. At least 13 people are dead, 20 others wounded following a shooting at a Community College in Oregon.

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Caller: The shooter was lining people up and asked them if they were Christians. If they said 'yes', then they were shot in the head.

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Man interviewed on CNN: 'Are you a Christian?' he would ask them. 'And if you're a Christian: stand up!' and they would stand up. And he said 'Good, because you're a Christian you gonna see God in just about one second.' And then he shot and killed them.

(0:00:29.02 – 0:00:42.00)

VO: A few weeks ago, 13 people were killed in school shooting in Oregon. The victims were all Christians. The local church reacted to the tragedy with a silent vigil, but many Christians are responding in a different way, by arming themselves. 

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Man engraving gun: Blessed be the Lord my rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.

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Man in green shirt: And I have been amazed at how many Christians over the past five years have gone and gotten their concealed permits. We sense that something's happening.

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Ken Pegano: Another nice little Italian gun for an Italian pastor.

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Man in blue shirt: And I read the Bible every day. Nowhere in that Bible do I see anywhere that it says I can't defend myself.

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Donald Trump: I am officially running for President of the United States.

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VO: In the upcoming presidential campaign, the arms debate is a central theme. Whilst the current president is calling for tougher regulation…

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Barack Obama: There has been another mass shooting in America. We are the only advanced country on Earth that sees these kinds of mass shootings every few months.

(0:01:37.18 - 0:01:46.10)

VO: Many conservative Christians are using the Oregon killings as further proof of the need for firearms.

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Trump: We need them! In fact, I have a license to carry in New York … Can you believe that? Nobody knows.

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Female voice: In the name of Jesus. We believe in the Lord.

(0:02:04.09 – 0:02:19.00)

VO: In many Americans there seems to exist a bizarre mixture: that of a faith in God but a trust in firearms. How can one combine the peaceful message of the Bible with a holy faith in weaponry? 

 

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Chuck McAllister: And I ask you to forgive me. And Jesus! I surrender control of my life to you. Do you understand why there is not enough money to buy this gun from me? And do you understand why there is no government on the face of this Earth that has the right to take this gun from me!?

(0:02:45.10 – 0:03:00.00)

VO: Louisville, Kentucky. The heart of the Bible belt. The home of Kentucky Fried Chicken, and thousands of churches. This is a deeply religious town, but the city has another love: guns.

(0:03:08.20 – 0:03:19.00)

VO: One pastor, Ken Pegano, encourages his congregation to bring their guns to church, in honour the Second Amendment, which protects the right of every American to bear arms.

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Pegano: It was an open-carry-celebration: “God, guns and gospel”. So we... we of course did it, we wanted to glorify god, that's what we tried to do. Erm, guns were in that sense a part of the draw, but we also wanted to promote the gospel. And that we as Christian people can be people of faith and also be people of firearms. No contradiction.

We're gonna talk about the fact that we can be a Christian, a lover of God and be supportive and impact our community, but also have an appreciation as Americans for the right to keep and bear arms.

(0:04:03.00 – 0:04:13.01)

VO: But Pagano recently made the news when he went a step further, and held a raffle to win a free handgun during the church service.

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Interviewer: Giving away a gun in church?

Pegano: As a part of an outreach, yes.

Interviewer: That sounds amazing that you're...

Pegano: And the deputy won it! One of our deputies, that was even more amazing!

What we did was legal, I believe biblical, and I know it was constitutional.

They didn't have to bring them every Sunday, but I know somebody did.

Interviewer: You? Are you still carrying it now?

Pegano: Maybe.

Interviewer: You have your gun on you?

Pegano: Errrr, can you see it?

Interviewer: No.

Pegano: Okay. I have a Bible on me too.

Interviewer: Can I see that too?

Pegano: *laughs* We can do this later at the range, but yeah I have 'em on me.

(0:04:54.10 – 0:05:10.00)

VO: On the way to Pegano’s shooting range a procession of police cars passed by. There had been a report of a shooting at a school in nearby Louisville. After a few hours of tension, we found out that fortunately no one had been injured.

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Pegano (on the phone): Alright, Mr. My... Mr. James, let me put you on hold for a second and we'll run the card and then let you know that everything has gone through. You'll be filling out a waiver of liability and you'll be shooting the very first thing.

(0:05:25.09 - 0:05:34.09)

VO: Recently Pastor Pegano has chosen to dedicate himself full-time to guns: he has left the church and opened a shooting range.

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Interviewer: So you stopped being a pastor and became a shooting instructor.

Pegano: Well, a shooting instructor, who is a shepherd.

That's the Holy Book and then there is a gun in there.

Interviewer: So you always carry a small gun with you?

Pegano: Always. But I usually always have a full-size one too.

Interviewer: And this is the one, you also carry?

Pegano: Yes. Yes, these are with me every day.

Interviewer: A pastor which is carrying a gun, or a former pastor.

Pegano: And a Bible!

Interviewer: And a Bible.

Pegano: They are always with me, even when I pastor.

Come on in!

(0:06:20.00 - 0:06:29.12)

VO: Pegano is a deeply religious Christian, and also passionate about firearms. Apparently the two go hand in hand, as we discover on the range.

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Bearded man: You don't use it to lose it. Ever heard that saying? Same way with these. I carry every day to exercise my right. That's my right. Also, so that I can defend myself and my family and my friends.

Interviewer: So it's protection and your right?

Bearded man: For protection and solely because it's my right. Given to me by God.

(0:06:55.00)

Woman in pink shirt: When you limit something like guns, you're actually preventing the good people from doing what they need to do.

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Woman: Church is always first and then we always go to the gunnery and just shoot and interact as a family. And family is key and God and guns and stuff.

Interviewer: It's all connected?

Woman: Yes, it's all just like … yeah, it's all very connected. It's awesome.

Interviewer: Thank you!

(0:07:28.10 – 0:07:43.03)

VO: In the papers the next morning, there was no mention of the shooting in Louisville. 

In Europe, this would have been front page news, but here there was a bigger story: about the college shooting in Oregon that had occurred only a week earlier.

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News anchor: Over a thousand people gathered last night to remember the victims of Thursday's school shooting.

(0:07:57.13 – 0:08:10.17)

VO: In a grim coincidence, these students are being buried on the same day as “National Gun Day”. To mark the day, Kentucky held one of the biggest arms shows in America.

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Man with camouflage cap: It's a 308 calibre and this is my personal gun, it's my favourite gun to shoot. I shoot long-distance with this, 1000 yards and all the way down to … you know … 100.

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Interviewer: Why do you carry a gun?

Woman: For a lot of reasons. I think everyone should have the freedom to be able to defend themselves against … you know … either other citizens, any kind of danger or the government if need be.

(0:09:05.21 – 0:09:38.00)

Interviewer: Do you celebrate National Gun Day when there are funerals in Oregon?

Man in green shirt: Just because a bad person uses a gun to do a bad thing doesn't make that thing bad.

Man in red shirt: You know, a gun didn't kill those people.

Interviewer: Well, they were killed by a gun.

Man in red shirt: They were killed by a gun, but somebody had to pull the trigger.

Interviewer: If there weren't guns, they wouldn't be dead.

Man in red shirt: He could have used a hammer or a knife or a club.

Woman: It's a gun-free zone, someone came in with a gun even though he wasn't supposed to and look what happened: People died.

(0:09:46.08 – 0:09:58.04)

VO: God, Gospel and guns. For many in the American South, this seems to be the holy trinity. And no one can convince them otherwise. Not even their president.

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Obama: Somehow, this has become routine. The reporting is routine, my response here at this podium ends up being routine and what's become routine of course is the response of those who oppose any kind of common sense gun legislation.

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Interviewer: How important is the second amendment to you?

Man in camouflage cap: Well, it's fundamental without doubt when the rest of them falls.

Man in grey hoodie: It's a right that you should have for … you know, to protect yourself. You look at what's going on in other places of the world. The governments take over and they run people out.

Woman: I think if you believe in God, you believe in defense and protection. Through you they are connected.

Man in green shirt: It's all about freedom. You know, God offers us freedom through Jesus. Guns are for some freedom from government.

(0:11:08.00 – 0:11:21.01)

VO: In Kentucky, life is lived in accordance with the Bible. Weapons are a fundamental part of daily life, even in church.

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Woman in orange vest: This is to register to win one of the guns.

(0:11:42.04 – 0:11:56.19)

VO: At a local community church service, tonight’s pastor is Chuck McAllister. McAllister is famous for his show on the Wildlife Channel. He is a self-styled tough guy, hunter and evangelist.

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McAllister: I love to hunt. I love to fish. God sees no geographical boundaries. We're the number 1 show on the outdoor channel. We had several million viewers every week and take about three minutes to share the gospel and give people the opportunity to come to know Jesus as their Lord and Saviour.

Interviewer: So you use your television show to get people to Jesus?

McAllister: Absolutely.

(0:12:24.10)

McAllister: God doesn't really need me. I'm just doing this.

(0:12:33.20 – 0:12:49.09)

VO: Everyone at the service is entered into a lottery, for which the main prize is a gun. A 9 mm pistol. Both children and adults are entered, and the draw is held after the service.

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McAllister: And that's how you have to look at this. From the context of a man in Kentucky in the United States, who doesn't go to church, but who is very interested in the outdoors and hunting and fishing and all of those things. And when he hears about an event where guns, which are very expensive, are being given away, he's gonna come. More guns that are given away, the more un-church people will come.

(0:13:27.21 – 0:13:34.08)

VO: Amongst all these churches in Kentucky, there stands a small Mosque, in the city of Louisville.

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Interviewer: Hello! How're you doing? Hi, Cornelius, nice to meet you! Are there many Muslims living here in Louisville?

Asad Nawabi: About a thousand plus families.

Interviewer: That's not even 1% of the population?

Nawabi: Correct.

(0:13:53.10 – 0:14:00.00)

VO: Many of the mosque's congregation are refugees who have escaped conflict.

(0:14:00.01)

Interviewer: How would people react if you would give away guns here at your mosque?

Nawabi: It would not be favourable, we would be labelled as a terrorist group and personally, I would never allow that, because it's not a place to promote weapons. This is a place where people come in and worship and connect to God. It is not a place to come in and learn how to fight.

(0:14:25.17 – 0:14:35.11)

VO: Asad Nawabi himself fled from Afghanistan to the US in the eighties. He now runs an IT company, and counts shooting as one of his hobbies.

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Nawabi: Guns has been in our DNA, so...

Interviewer: So even for you, a person who wasn't born here, it's still in your DNA?

Nawabi: Correct. I mean, I'd do my hunting, fishing and I do my recreational shooting, but a church, a mosque, a synagogue should be a place of peace and a place of worship and not a place to promote violence or weapons.

(0:15:00.03 – 0:15:49.12)

Interviewer: How many people are carrying guns here do you think?

Man in green shirt: Oh, probably 25% of the people are carrying and some of the ladies are carrying them in their handbags and you'd never know when they have them on ankle holsters or …

Interviewer: Are you carrying?

Man in green shirt: I'm carrying, yes.

Interviewer: Where, because I can't see it. Wow! And are you any good?

Man in green shirt: Well, I was able to kill this elk in Colorado in 2010.

Interviewer: Are you carrying right now?

Man in purple shirt: No, not right now. But I've got one not far away.

Interviewer: And to be honest – are you here tonight to be with God or to win a gun?

Man in purple shirt: Both.

Blonde woman: I already know Christ, I'd rather win a gun.

Man in camouflage jacket: Yep. To win a gun.

Interviewer: Win a gun.

(0:15:51.00)

McAllister: This is the most valuable gun I've got in my collection. It's a Browning Sweet Sixteen. Belgium-made.

(0:16:05.15 – 0:16:28.01)

VO: Travelling further south, to Charleston, South Carolina. Here, the uneasy relationship between guns and religion is more complex than ever. Recently, Charleston has been in the news for a tragic reason.

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News anchor: hooting at a church in Charleston happened just about an hour ago. Apparently at an address that corresponds to the Emmanuel AME church.

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Nadine Collier: My phone rang. My sister called me from Dallas, Texas. She said there was a shooting at the church. And I said to her: “I'm on my way”. As I was running to try to get to the church, the police rang me. He said “Ma'am, I'm sorry, I can't let you go back there.” I said “Sir, you don't understand. My mom is in that church.” My niece called me. She said “Auntie, Granny's gone” Only thing I could do was scream. And a lady from the coroner said “Your name is?” I said “Nadine Collier”. I said “Ethel Lance was my mother” and she said to me “I'm sorry, Your mom was one of the ones that got killed.” And I just thumped down on my knees

(0:17:51.17 – 0:18:04.20)

VO: In total, nine people died, all African Americans. Dylann Roof had wanted to start a race war. Since the shooting, Nadine has been a vocal presence.

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Collier (on video): I'm a Christian woman, I believe in God and that's what I'm holding on to.

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Collier: I held the prayer. The one my mom always taught me. Let go of what people have done to you. Let it go, let it go. Don't give them that power over you. Then all these words and everything she taught me started coming back to me. Despite I knew this young man took my mother, I knew I had to do the right thing. I had to forgive him. I have to.

(0:19:07.20 – 0:19:18.02)

VO: In the US legal system, the victim is able address the perpetrator if they so wish, and in court, Nadine spoke directly to her mother’s killer.

(0:19:18.08)

Judge (on video): You're representing the family of Ethel Lance, is that correct?

Collier: Yes.

Judge: And you're whom, Ma'am?

Collier: Her daughter.

Judge: Her daughter.

(0:19:25.08)

Collier: When I got up, I said “You took something very precious away from me. I will never again be able to talk to her, to hold her or see her, but I forgive you. I forgive you.”

Interviewer: But how can you forgive the man who killed your mother?

Collier: Easy. I have a heart. I was taught from a very strong woman, who believed in God. She taught me well.

 

(0:20:08.24 – 0:20.17.16)

VO: Another victim in the shooting was the pastor of the church: Daniel Simmons. His granddaughter also chose to speak in court.

(0:20:17.19 – 0:20:28:20)

Simmons' granddaughter: Everyone's plea for your soul is proof that they lived in love and their legacies will live in love. So, hate won't win.

(0:20:30.15 – 0:20:32.04)

VO: We meet her at a park in Charleston.

(0:20:33.10)

Simmons' granddaughter: I thought it was a very evil and heinous act to go into a place of worship, any place of worship and to murder people. I wanted to show this person two things: One, that we're not the people, who you thought we were. And two, that you don't have the power to control my reaction or my emotion.

(0:20:52.06)

News Anchor: And in their memory, you say hate won't win. You said it there and you're starting a campaign called “Hate won't win”. Tell us about it, please!

Simmons' granddaughter: Yes, my siblings and I prayed about what would be the best thing to do for our grandfather to carry on his legacy and the legacy of the other victims.

(0:21:12.02 – 0:21:20.16)

VO: Hate Won’t Win. Love instead of hate. Many Christians, also from the south, have joined the movement, speaking out against the culture of firearms in their country.

(0:21:21.20)

Simmons' granddaughter: The opportunity to meet President Obama and First Lady Michelle Obama, we have T-Shirts. They say “Hate won't win” in the middle and there is a black hand and a white hand making a heart. We gave one to the President. He asked all the families “Is there anything that I can do to help?” and I told him about the social media challenge and he said “Oh well, I have a couple of followers, I think I can help you with that”. A Tweet that President Obama has sent out said “So inspired by the grace displayed by the Simmons family and the other victims of the Charleston attack. Hate won't win.” He used the hashtag #hatewontwin and our following base went from about 3,000 to 18-19,000 really quickly.

(0:22:00.00)

Collier: Whatever he tried to create, didn't happen.

Interviewer: Because of you and a lot of other people.

Collier: Yes.

Interviewer: Because of your forgiveness.

Collier: Oh yeah.

(0:22:20.14)

McAllister: They stepped up so that we get to enjoy the freedoms that we get to enjoy today. And all of a sudden, I realised it was my turn and I squared my shoulders and I took my M16 and I've proudly walked my pose.

(0:22:40.01)

Interviewer: Is it strange that a man of God is giving away guns?

Man in camouflage outfit: No. I don't think so.

Interviewer: And do you think McAllister can win you over for God?

Man in blue/white shirt: Yes.

Interviewer: Are you here tonight to meet Christ or maybe that you can win a gun?

Bald man: Meet Christ.

Man in grey shirt: I'm already a Christian, but I'd like to win a gun, that would be fab.

(0:23:03.02)

McAllister: Right now, just raise your hand. I pray that prayer with you in a minute with all my heart. Raise it high, so that I at least see where you are. Thank you! Thank you, young man, thank you. Now if you just raise your hand, I want you to look at me. Just look at me. I know who you are, I saw you raise your hand. Just look at me. I know how to pray for you, I'm gonna ask you to do something. I'm gonna ask you to mark a card and then I'm gonna leave you alone. I'm gonna pray for you. You've got this information card that you were handed. That's how we draw for the guns here in just a second.

(0:23:32.01)

Collier: When they have to bribe you with guns to come to church, are you kidding me? No way. If you have to give guns for people to come to church, you are not talking about the same God we know.

(0:23:47.15)

Man on stage: For the Youth Giveaway, we will give away a Rossi Single Shot 20 Gauge. Elliot Cross, you go see Robin and get your certificate filled out. Next we have a Savage Axis 270 with scope and that winner is Therersa Kelly.

(0:24:10.02)

Simmons' granddaughter: As Christians, if we are going to ask the nation to be less violent, then we should demonstrate that.

(0:24:18.08)

Man on stage: That's it. No matter if you're a winner or a loser, you had your belly filled, you had a good time. Let's give these guys a round of applause for winning tonight.

(0:24:27.14 – 0:24:37.02)

VO: These are the lucky winners: After a quick background check, they will be able to pick up their weapons from their local Gunstore.

(0:24:38.11)

Interviewer: What did you win?

Elliot Cross: Single Shot 20 Gauge.

Interviewer: Is this your first gun?

Cross: No.

Interviewer: How many guns do you have?

Cross: 25 to 10.

Interviewer: How old are you?

Cross: 14.

Interviewer: Is it your first gun?

Elderly woman: Yes.

Interviewer: You won your first gun at a church service?

Elderly woman: Yes. Makes it special.

(0:25:00.00)

McAllister: You keep coming back to the issue of the guns! That is not an issue with us and I understand that it's becoming an issue in Europe, but maybe you should wake up and realise that there is a revolution taking place and churches' doors are closing at an alarming rate while mosques are opening and while an ideology is being taught that teaches children and others to hate and to kill and to maim.

(0:25:33.16 – 0:25:48.07)

VO: Chuck McAllister seems to embody the slogan God, Guns and Gospel. In a factory in Florida, one company is taking it a step further, making specialised ‘Christian’ weapons.

(0:25:50.06)

Man in dark shirt: This is Spikes' office, That's the boss' office.

Interviewer: This is an office?

Man in dark shirt: Yeah. Yeah, this is the office where Spike does his bidding.

Interviewer: Okay. There is not a lot of place to work anymore, I think.

Man in dark shirt: No, he has a lot of toys.

Interviewer: Toys?

Man in dark shirt: Yeah.

(0:26:08.09)

Man in dark shirt: Class 3 is kept in here. That's machine guns and suppressors and things like that.

Interviewer: So, the weapons are built in here?

Man in dark shirt: Yes, we build the weapons here, yes.

(0:26:17.08 – 0:26:28.20)

VO: In this factory, the weapons are all hand built. Their speciality: the Crusader, a rifle with a Bible scripture engraved on its magazine intake.

(0:26:30.01)

Man in dark shirt: These are all Crusaders.

Interviewer: These are all Crusaders?

Man in dark shirt: Yes.

Interviewer: Wow.

Man in dark shirt: The reason we put the Bible verse on, was because we have friends of the company and people that work here, that were overseas in Iraq and Afghanistan. While they were over there, they actually saw terrorists and insurgents and people to harm Americans using American-made weapons, so knowing what we know about Islam and Muslim extremists, we put a Bible verse on the rifle, because we know that they would never use it. So anything with a Bible verse and a cross and anything like that is basically forbidden for them, so that's why we put it on there.

Interviewer: It's like an anti-Muslim gun?

Man in dark shirt: Basically yes, it's an anti-Muslim gun.

(0:27:26.15)

Nawabi: There is no such thing as an anti-Islamic gun. For me to have a Muslim-proof gun, there is no such thing. It is a – I would say – it is a commercialisation, it is a propaganda of the right wing to make money. It's nothing more than that.

(0:27:45.22)

Interviewer: But aren't you using God's word to sell weapons?

Man in dark shirt: The Qur'an preaches violence and God also doesn't want us to sit back and just let someone kill us. So, well, I guess you kind of have to put the two together.

(0:28:07.10)

Interviewer: Hi there! Did you sell anything today?

Saleswoman: Yeah, I sold a couple of the Crusaders actually.

(0:28:20.20 – 0:29:11.15)

VO: James has just bought a Crusader. He asked us to only use his first name, otherwise apparently Muslims would know where to find him.

James: On this side it has the crusader cross, and if you know the history, that – you know – the crusaders were taking back the Holy Land from the Muslims. And then on this side, we have the verse. And that's a verse from the Bible, so your comment about guns and God, do they go together? Well, that verse is in the Bible, it's in Psalm 144.1.

Interviewer: So, for you God and Guns are connected?

James: Sure. And this one here belongs to my wife. I purchased one about two or three weeks ago. She saw it and she wanted one. She doesn't even shoot, but she wanted to have one to pass down to our grandson somewhere down the road.

Interviewer: So this gun will stay in the family?

James: This gun will stay in the family. Neither one of them will be sold.

(0:29:16.20 – 0:29:26.14)

VO: At the Emanuel Church in Charleston, Nadine describes how, on the day of the shooting, she went to the morning service, whilst her mother went in the evening.

(0:29:28.01)

Collier: If she had said she needed help with something, then I probably would have been there.

Interviewer: If your mom had said “Join me tonight” or “I need some help”, you would have been at the shooting?

Collier: Yes.

(0:29:41.16 – 0:29:46.20)

VO: Emotions ran high when she met the president at a memorial service.

(0:29:48.10)

Collier: He walked up to me and I got up and I said “President Obama, I'm Nadine Collier” and he said “I know, who you are. Come here, sweetie, I'm sorry for your loss” and we hugged.

(0:30:08.00)

Obama: *sings Amazing Grace*

(0:30:26.04 – 0:30:36.18)

VO: The grieving families paid tribute to the victims together, and in his subsequent speech President Obama made clear his views on America gun laws.

(0:30:38.00)

Obama: It cannot be this easy for somebody, who wants to inflict harm on other people to get his or her hands on a gun. Each time this happens, I'm going to say that we can actually do something about it, but we are going have to change our laws. And this is not something I can do by myself.

(0:31:03.15)

Man in green shirt: We are allowing one man to have too much control. No man should have that kind of control in this country to usurp power that belongs to the people. He has no right.

Blonde woman: I think we should have the right to protect ourselves.

Man in grey shirt: He will try and take our guns, yeah. And I don't think it needs to happen.

Pegano: We are going to talk about the fact that we can be a Christian, a lover of God, but also have an appreciation as Americans for the right to keep and bear arms.

(0:31:30.03 – 0:31:44.00)

VO: God, Gospel and guns. It is a holy trinity for many American Christians. They have faith in their God and trust in their firearms. Their belief in both is unshakeable.

(0:31:44.16)

Collier: Is a gun necessary? It is, at some time and some point. But it is getting too available. And the wrong people are getting their hands on them. We have to draw the line somewhere.

Simmons' granddaughter: Here in America we have seen so many mass-shootings and they are just on the rise, because of all the new weapons that are coming out with these capabilities that really shouldn't be in the hands of everyday people. And so I certainly think that God and guns are not connected.

(0:32:23.14)

Obama: May God continue to shed his grace on the United States of America.