Daddy and the Warlord | Journeyman Pictures

Transcript

00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:11,200

Daddy?

00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:14,880

Daddy?

00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:16,560

Are you ready?

00:00:16,680 --> 00:00:19,480

Do you want me to hold your phone?

00:00:56,840 --> 00:00:59,600

Can you maybe sit a bit lower, Shamira?

00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,560

Should I talk into the camera?

00:01:12,680 --> 00:01:15,160

No, just look at me.

00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:20,400

Camera rolling?

00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,520

What kind of person is your father?

00:01:42,280 --> 00:01:44,760

My father is...

00:01:44,880 --> 00:01:49,400

...very dedicated,

very passionate about his work.

00:01:53,160 --> 00:01:57,400

Very idealistic, a bit of a do-gooder.

00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:04,400

I've always looked up to my dad...

00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:08,000

...partly, I think, because

I grew up without him.

00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,520

I've always thought of him as a hero.

00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,560

Why would you want to take a critical look

at this nice image you have of him?

00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:32,520

I think it's important to find out the truth.

00:02:33,720 --> 00:02:37,040

To put things into perspective.

00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:40,720

Because...

00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:48,280

I may have an idealized image of my dad

and maybe that's not who he really is.

00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:17,520

You are listening to Liberia News Network.

Today is 10 October, 1992.

00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:24,120

Rebel leader Charles Taylor is gaining

control over big parts of our country.

00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:30,480

Taylor's army of drugged-up child soldiers

are raping and killing our citizens...

00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:33,760

...in the most brutal ways.

00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:37,600

Reports of cannibalism have arisen...

00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:50,520

Daddy?

00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:57,080

Aren't you happy I'm back in Liberia?

- Yes.

00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,120

I know.

00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,040

I'm happy to be here too.

00:04:02,160 --> 00:04:05,560

Clarice, are solar panels expensive

in Holland?

00:04:05,680 --> 00:04:07,240

What are you asking me?

- Solar panels.

00:04:07,360 --> 00:04:12,480

You put in an investment once

and it's there for the next 20 years.

00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,640

I know about it.

00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:20,600

You do not believe

that God gave me a special gift.

00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,280

I still remember

all my engineering knowledge.

00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:24,560

Daddy, I told you we know.

00:04:24,680 --> 00:04:27,200

You keep talking business,

did you even miss me?

00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,800

You know how long I haven't seen you?

- I know.

00:04:29,920 --> 00:04:31,440

You know, right?

- Yeah.

00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:35,400

Because you postpone your trip

all the time.

00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,080

So you did miss me.

00:04:41,280 --> 00:04:43,440

It's nice, right?

00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,760

It has my name on it.

- It has Africa on it.

00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:52,400

And my name

- Yes, I see it.

00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:55,040

Daddy never forgets my birthday.

00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,080

Do you know how old I got, daddy?

00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:00,000

Yes.

00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,080

How old? What's my age?

00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,520

Twenty...

00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,120

You forgot?

- Twenty-six.

00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:22,560

Twenty-what?

00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:25,360

Twenty-six.

00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:28,240

No?

- No.

00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:36,240

Daddy, do you remember?

00:05:56,680 --> 00:05:59,880

It was on July 26, I can remember.

00:06:01,480 --> 00:06:05,920

My mother, she was fixing

fried potato greens for us that day.

00:06:06,040 --> 00:06:09,080

While my mother was dishing up the food...

00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,080

...we started hearing on the radio:

00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:14,560

"Keep home."

00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:17,960

"Keep home."

00:06:24,120 --> 00:06:27,800

I was sitting with my parents

in front of the house.

00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,360

It was my father that I asked:

00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:37,480

"What do they mean by war?" He said:

"It's fighting. That they can kill people."

00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:42,320

I said: "They look at living human beings

and kill them?"

00:06:42,440 --> 00:06:45,040

He said: "Yes, it can happen."

00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,280

My mother started crying.

00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:55,960

I felt really bad, something like crazy.

00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:58,600

Really confused.

00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,560

That was the first time I realized

that people kill other people.

00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,280

Since the official end

of the Liberian civil war in 2003...

00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:24,720

...there have been calls and campaigns

for setting up the courts...

00:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,280

...to prosecute those who bear

the greatest responsibility...

00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:29,440

...for this war.

00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:32,680

Let me welcome you

to the National Archives.

00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:34,680

Your father, Martin Gargard...

00:07:34,800 --> 00:07:39,360

...served in the government as an official.

00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,600

And so, once you serve in our government

as an official...

00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,440

...especially someone

who was appointed by the president...

00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:52,000

...you become a popular man,

so he was a household name.

00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:57,840

Because I grew up in Holland, I'm trying

to find out what happened during the war.

00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:01,440

Do you have information

about his job description?

00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,120

Actually, anything regarding his activities...

00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:09,520

...or whatsoever problem

he might have encountered...

00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,480

...I'm not in a position to explain that.

00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:16,240

I didn't say anything about problems.

I don't know why you...

00:08:16,360 --> 00:08:19,640

No, I just want to be general.

00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:25,600

It can be problems, it can be good,

it can be anything for that matter.

00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:30,200

I'm not in a position to really explain further

in that direction.

00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:35,760

But what I can tell you is:

Your father is a Liberian.

00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:42,120

He served as an official in our government

and he's from Grand Bassa County.

00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:45,200

I think that is enough.

00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:53,080

I believe that no foreign system...

00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:59,600

...be it a war crime tribunal or whatever

you call it, will solve our problems.

00:08:59,720 --> 00:09:03,520

We had the Truth and Reconciliation

process.

00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:06,880

The results were put under the carpet,

you know that.

00:09:15,560 --> 00:09:18,040

1990 was the war.

00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,760

What did you do during the war?

00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:25,600

I didn't tell you the war history yet.

The war history started with...

00:09:25,720 --> 00:09:29,160

You don't have to tell me the war history,

daddy. I can look that up myself.

100

00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,000

I just want to know...

- What I did?

101

00:09:31,120 --> 00:09:35,040

What you did during the war.

- All that time I was in Telecom.

102

00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:55,560

I had to direct the engineers what to do.

103

00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:02,720

I was an engineer administrator.

That's what I used to do.

104

00:10:03,560 --> 00:10:06,200

We had a satellite here.

105

00:10:06,320 --> 00:10:09,760

A satellite station, all under my control.

106

00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:13,480

So what does that mean for the country?

107

00:10:13,600 --> 00:10:16,040

Wow! Hi, Mr. Gargard.

108

00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:18,640

How are you, sir?

- It's an honour to see you.

109

00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,880

How is it? It's been a while.

110

00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:24,240

You're here?

- Yes, I'm still here, sir.

111

00:10:24,360 --> 00:10:27,360

My name is Kuhman. Joseph Kuhman.

112

00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:30,040

You used to work with my dad?

113

00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:32,000

Life bodyguard.

114

00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:35,200

Bodyguard, wow.

So you used to protect him.

115

00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:36,840

Why?

- He did a lot.

116

00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:41,000

Every time she wants me to explain it,

I don't know where to start.

117

00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:44,200

It's uncountable.

- We had a satellite station here.

118

00:10:44,320 --> 00:10:45,840

He built the system.

119

00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,760

So the work was of essential value for...

120

00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:53,520

The government was depending on him

to receive and make calls.

121

00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:58,120

I must be honest with you.

That's a fact.

122

00:10:59,560 --> 00:11:03,440

So I took him to be very important.

123

00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:07,600

Anything he wanted me to do,

I would go ahead and do it for him.

124

00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:13,120

Do you remember when the soldiers

stopped us and said you had to go back?

125

00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:16,360

They said: "Bullets are flying.

If you go, you're on your own."

126

00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:18,440

I said: "No, we can't go back."

127

00:11:18,560 --> 00:11:23,680

If the system doesn't come on, you can't

win this war. You must have communication.

128

00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:45,800

Today is June 14, 1993.

Coming to you with some breaking news.

129

00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:51,440

The managing director

of Liberian Telecom, Martin Gargard...

130

00:11:51,560 --> 00:11:55,520

...has been arrested for

what Justice Minister Banks termed...

131

00:11:55,640 --> 00:11:58,280

..."dubious practices".

132

00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:02,960

Officers are investigating Martin Gargard

for allegedly installing equipment...

133

00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,280

...with the purpose of tapping the lines

of president Amos Sawyer...

134

00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:11,800

...for onward transmission

to rebel leader Charles Taylor.

135

00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:37,800

My name is Matthew P. Diallo.

136

00:12:37,920 --> 00:12:41,400

I was chief expeditor

for the Tolsey Bernard Law Office.

137

00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:43,680

We handled your father's case.

138

00:12:45,160 --> 00:12:49,960

Charles Taylor was launching mortars,

rockets.

139

00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:57,680

At that time there was someone

in the habit of informing Mr. Taylor.

140

00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:05,280

Because sometimes he would launch when

there were many people and many would die.

141

00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,840

So there was someone directing him

exactly where to launch.

142

00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:17,120

During the investigation they charged him,

saying it was espionage.

143

00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:24,520

But why would the government suspect

or put the blame on Mr. Gargard?

144

00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:31,160

Because that was the only corporation

that had to do with communication.

145

00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:36,000

Liberia Telecommunications Corporation

was the only government corporation...

146

00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:38,720

...that had to do with communication.

147

00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,360

So they thought, because he was

the head of the corporation...

148

00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:52,000

...he was releasing information.

- It must be him.

149

00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:56,040

They just wanted to blame someone,

is what you're saying?

150

00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,920

Were you friends with Charles Taylor?

151

00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:12,000

Yes, I was friendly with all of them.

152

00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,120

With Tolbert, with Doe...

153

00:14:15,240 --> 00:14:20,080

...with Charles Taylor and Amos Sawyer

who wanted to execute me.

154

00:14:21,360 --> 00:14:24,880

Why were you friendly with all of them?

Why were you friendly with Taylor?

155

00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,200

Because they all needed communication.

156

00:14:28,320 --> 00:14:31,760

But they were stupid.

If you want to kill me, you're stupid.

157

00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:35,720

Because if you kill your communication man,

how will you communicate?

158

00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:25,320

I came here for the court documents.

I couldn't find them.

159

00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:31,240

Well, if this is a matter of

government-to-government relations...

160

00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:36,880

...I could certainly see

how the documents could disappear.

161

00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,360

People have disappeared.

162

00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:48,400

You know. Just recently our judge,

who was a no-nonsense judge...

163

00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,880

...he mysteriously died.

164

00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:56,840

Then the chief prosecutor,

he mysteriously died on Sunday.

165

00:16:02,240 --> 00:16:05,320

I'm just saying, we can't give in

to that speculation.

166

00:16:05,440 --> 00:16:07,320

But things do disappear...

167

00:16:07,440 --> 00:16:10,600

...to answer your question.

Things disappear around here.

168

00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:13,640

Papers and people.

169

00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,400

We've spoken to quite a few people now.

170

00:16:31,520 --> 00:16:34,440

I'm wondering what it feels like to you.

171

00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:41,360

Yeah, well...

172

00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,240

You want me to answer that now?

- Yes, I'm curious.

173

00:16:57,160 --> 00:16:59,040

Can I think about it?

174

00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:06,080

You can ask me another question.

- No, I'll wait.

175

00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,240

You know, all guns

don't make the same sound.

176

00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:07,000

That one was like a gun

with small, small bullets.

177

00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:13,080

But the big ones that can explode

a whole community, they go:

178

00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:23,920

We hadn't experienced war before.

179

00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,880

My wife and the children,

we saw all those people with guns.

180

00:18:29,520 --> 00:18:32,400

The children held me, held my shirt.

181

00:18:32,520 --> 00:18:34,320

They were holding my shirt.

182

00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:38,480

It was not easy, it was scary.

183

00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,280

I will not tell you I wasn't scared. I was.

184

00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:49,000

Sometimes when you are far off

and you hear that sound, "boom"...

185

00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:52,240

...you will know that the soldiers

were in the town.

186

00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,800

When they are shooting fast fast...

187

00:18:56,240 --> 00:19:00,440

...then you know they are close to you,

you must find means to escape.

188

00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:10,000

This sound I will never forget.

"Bow bow."

189

00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:11,840

They're on somebody.

190

00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,960

When you hear "bow-bow" two times

they execute somebody.

191

00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,720

He was a trustworthy leader, Taylor.

192

00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:44,720

He was a visionary.

193

00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,800

Mr. Charles Taylor.

194

00:19:47,920 --> 00:19:50,720

I'm telling you this. You understand?

195

00:19:50,840 --> 00:19:54,320

So even after his imprisonment

you would still support him?

196

00:19:54,440 --> 00:20:00,320

I still support him. I'm here now. I'm

vice-chairman of the National Patriotic Party.

197

00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:02,120

And we are here.

198

00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,640

Do you know my dad, Martin Gargard?

- Yes, I know him very well.

199

00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,520

I might not have interacted with him

on a personal basis...

200

00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:15,040

...but he was one of the right-hand men

of Mr. Taylor.

201

00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:19,960

He was one of the major advisors.

Whenever I went to a meeting, he was there.

202

00:20:20,080 --> 00:20:26,280

I think he was one of the guys who was

sincere in advising Mr. Taylor what to do.

203

00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,320

Mr. Gargard, one of the strongest guys...

204

00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:32,600

...he was an unassuming old man.

205

00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:38,480

He didn't climb on a mountain

to yell or anything. But he made sure...

206

00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,160

...that the impact was felt

where it was necessary.

207

00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,720

I grew up in the Netherlands and

what came through international media...

208

00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:53,120

...was that the regime or the government

of Taylor was oppressing the people.

209

00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:57,600

So I'm curious

to what your thoughts are on that.

210

00:20:57,720 --> 00:21:01,880

That is a whole new ball game.

211

00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:04,840

It depends on who you're talking to.

212

00:21:04,960 --> 00:21:07,240

Let me tell you.

213

00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:12,200

Some people never accept defeat...

214

00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:16,000

...even when they are defeated,

even when you have to kill them on the floor.

215

00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,520

That's what happened in Liberia, my dear.

216

00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,160

As simple as that.

217

00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:28,760

I mean, let's be honest.

When there is war, people die.

218

00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:33,880

Okay? People suffer all sorts of humiliation.

219

00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:39,600

One thing, and quote me on this...

220

00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:43,520

...whenever it came to the attention

of Mr. Taylor...

221

00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:49,600

...that this special force or this army unit

did this to the people...

222

00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,920

...he dealt with them especially.

223

00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,880

I don't want to give all the credit

to your father...

224

00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:08,560

...but I think your father did not necessarily

work for Mr. Charles Taylor.

225

00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:13,440

He worked to restore dignity

to the Liberian people.

226

00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:21,000

I think you should go home,

resting your mind.

227

00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:24,160

Where is your father now?

- At his house.

228

00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,360

You'd better go there and say,

papa, thank you.

229

00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,000

For what?

230

00:22:30,120 --> 00:22:34,320

For doing what he was supposed to do

for his people.

231

00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,120

You are Gargard's daughter.

232

00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:44,800

Be proud about it.

233

00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:06,720

Daddy, can you tell me the story

of my grandfather?

234

00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,600

The old man...

235

00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:20,600

...King Gbozuah Gargard

was a powerful and wise king.

236

00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,080

He could negotiate,

try to make peace with you.

237

00:23:29,040 --> 00:23:33,080

But if you said no, he would use force.

238

00:23:39,520 --> 00:23:41,320

He had a bird.

239

00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,960

The bird would pick him up...

240

00:23:46,080 --> 00:23:49,560

...they would fly around the tribal area...

241

00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:54,920

...and they carried torches

and threw them on the houses.

242

00:23:57,240 --> 00:24:00,640

He would set the whole town on fire.

243

00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,480

That's the kind of king

Gbozuah Gargard was.

244

00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,160

He would bite you before you blow.

245

00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:16,720

It means that man can be friendly

and he can make peace.

246

00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:23,360

But if you don't agree with him

he could take you to war.

247

00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,240

He had the power to do both.

248

00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,520

Do you think he was a bad person?

249

00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:53,480

Who?

- Taylor.

250

00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,440

Yes, he did many bad things.

251

00:25:02,560 --> 00:25:05,960

All the warlords did plenty of bad things.

252

00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:11,520

But nobody can accuse me

of advising Charles Taylor.

253

00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,400

He would not take advice from anyone.

254

00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:19,880

When he was doing bad and you told him,

he said, that's not your area.

255

00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:24,440

"I am warlord,

you don't tell me what to do."

256

00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,840

I advised Sawyer too...

257

00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:36,520

...but probably he was

not intelligent enough to see...

258

00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:38,800

...the good I was doing for him.

259

00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:42,800

Then he accused me of

communicating with Charles Taylor.

260

00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:45,160

Which was crap.

261

00:25:55,760 --> 00:25:58,000

Welcome to Monrovia News Network...

262

00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:01,840

...for all your local, continental

and global news reporting.

263

00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:05,080

It's January 17, 1994.

264

00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,560

"Mr. Gargard told me

to connect secret device."

265

00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,320

A witness called to the stand

today claimed this...

266

00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:15,600

...in the trial against Gargard and others.

267

00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:20,080

A staff member undergoing investigation

by the National Security Agency...

268

00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,680

...has confessed to connecting

the secret communication device...

269

00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,320

...on the orders of managing director

Mr. Gargard.

270

00:26:28,320 --> 00:26:31,280

The suspect says

he did not question his boss...

271

00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:36,800

...about why such an installation should

take place. He just complied to his orders.

272

00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:52,480

I can imagine you had hoped

this film would give you clarity:

273

00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:58,320

My father is indeed the idealist

I've always held him to be.

274

00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,120

Or, my father is...

275

00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:02,560

...good.

276

00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:10,000

Let me put it differently: I can imagine

you wanted to make this film partly...

277

00:27:10,120 --> 00:27:12,960

...to put your mind at rest.

278

00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,600

Yes, maybe I wanted to make this film

to put my mind at rest.

279

00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,280

Partly.

280

00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:33,760

I think I realized I was not going to like

everything I would find out.

281

00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:43,240

But that it could never...

282

00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:47,640

...that it might not be that bad.

283

00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:57,440

I do believe my father always does things

with the best intentions.

284

00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,200

And I don't think that he...

285

00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:07,680

...is a vindictive...

286

00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,360

...murderous kind of war criminal.

287

00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:16,920

He denies it, and of course

I want to believe him.

288

00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,360

Can I pass?

289

00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,040

Tell us a story.

290

00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:48,600

Tell us a story like, once upon a time.

291

00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:56,120

Once upon a time there were these girls,

they were twins, living in this town.

292

00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:59,720

One was called Cinderella

and one was called Sanderella.

293

00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,840

Cinderella was a good girl

and Sanderella was a bad girl.

294

00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:10,720

She didn't know how to cook good food.

295

00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,880

Hi, daddy.

- How are you?

296

00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,200

You're not ready yet?

- I'm ready.

297

00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,480

You look like MasterChef.

298

00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,920

Remember when you used to make

roast meat for us in Holland...

299

00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:28,120

...when you came to visit?

300

00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:31,240

It was my favourite dish.

301

00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:35,840

I still remember.

302

00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:39,960

You got any pepper there?

303

00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,000

You want pepper?

- Yes.

304

00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,240

You haven't tasted it yet.

305

00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:58,000

are you sleeping

306

00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:01,480

brother John

brother John?

307

00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,320

morning bells are ringing

308

00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,240

ding, dang, dong...

309

00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:32,400

You can't sleep...

310

00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,120

If you're in the war...

311

00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:39,680

...all you smell is so-so bad things,

bad feeling.

312

00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:45,400

Because the day

the people would come and catch you.

313

00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:50,600

While we were sleeping in the forest,

we were itchy all the time.

314

00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:53,760

No peace, you can't sleep in peace,

as soon as you hear a sound...

315

00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,840

...you pick up running again.

316

00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:05,760

Some people, pregnant women...

317

00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:10,000

...they tear the stomach, take out the baby.

318

00:32:10,120 --> 00:32:13,280

Some rebel factions would take out

their intestines...

319

00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,800

...take out their heart, their eyeballs,

their ears, everything.

320

00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,560

Just to eat it for protection.

321

00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:28,600

One of them started chasing me.

322

00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,680

The man ran behind me in the bush.

323

00:32:32,800 --> 00:32:36,480

He said: "I will not kill you,

but I will go out with you."

324

00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,800

I was running through the forest

for more than 30 minutes.

325

00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:48,880

So I gave up, yes.

326

00:32:50,240 --> 00:32:53,440

That's how he forced me,

he went out with me.

327

00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,920

It happened.

328

00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,160

We passed by all sorts of things.

329

00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:14,320

Dead body parts, they were lying all

across the road, everywhere you passed.

330

00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:20,320

But what to do?

331

00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,040

You've just got to make your way through.

332

00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,040

Daddy?

333

00:33:32,120 --> 00:33:36,840

For me, like how I know you,

you're the most moral person I know.

334

00:33:36,960 --> 00:33:40,360

And he is, I think,

the worst person I've ever met.

335

00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,600

And then how does

the most moral person I know...

336

00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:46,520

Work for a man like him? Okay.

337

00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:48,280

But, you see...

338

00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:51,280

...any dictator, any...

339

00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,240

...government, peaceful government...

340

00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:03,040

...in their communication, it depends on trust.

If you trust the person...

341

00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:07,160

Why did he trust you, though?

- I didn't fool him, I told him the truth.

342

00:34:07,280 --> 00:34:09,440

If you told the truth, they trusted you.

343

00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,440

That I understand, but why did you trust him?

344

00:34:12,560 --> 00:34:15,960

That's what I don't understand,

that's what I'm asking.

345

00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:19,240

No, he trusted me.

- But you didn't trust him?

346

00:34:20,480 --> 00:34:24,080

It works both ways, right?

347

00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,640

He trusted me

to do the right thing for him.

348

00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:11,440

The way that the Liberian people

were made to believe...

349

00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:13,840

...that Taylor was a good person...

350

00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,360

...was because of the kind of

communication people that he had.

351

00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:22,320

You could see that a vast majority

of the Liberian people...

352

00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:24,920

...voted for Charles Taylor as president.

353

00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,440

And they were chanting on the streets

of Monrovia and other parts of Liberia:

354

00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:34,840

"If you kill my ma, you kill my pa,

I'll still vote for you."

355

00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,520

That's horrible.

- Yes, it is.

356

00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:40,680

Dictators like Samuel Doe...

357

00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:45,520

...and Charles Taylor were so interested

in communication.

358

00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:52,160

That's the reason why. They knew that if they

had a hold on electronic communication...

359

00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:58,320

...then they could control the mindset of

the public, they could set the agenda.

360

00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:05,000

Here is the allegation

that comes on your father.

361

00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:09,520

Do you remember the coup that failed?

362

00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,040

That was the 1985 coup.

363

00:36:13,160 --> 00:36:17,520

There was a guy, a very popular Liberian,

a real warrior.

364

00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,720

He was called Thomas Quiwonkpa.

365

00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:24,440

He came to Liberia to overthrow

dictator Samuel Doe.

366

00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:28,360

Your father was at the telecoms.

367

00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,120

It is alleged, I'm not saying it's true...

368

00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:35,960

...that your father and

a guy named Archie Williams...

369

00:36:36,080 --> 00:36:39,280

...and some other guy

who I don't remember...

370

00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,160

...switched off the communication.

371

00:36:42,280 --> 00:36:45,440

And because they switched off

the communication...

372

00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:49,360

...Thomas Quiwonkpa

was unable to connect...

373

00:36:49,480 --> 00:36:53,280

...to those other guys

who would have saved his life.

374

00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,960

And because they switched off

the communication...

375

00:36:56,080 --> 00:37:00,680

...Thomas Quiwonkpa was captured by

president Doe. And he was slaughtered.

376

00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:06,680

There's a precedent here.

He did this for his friend Doe...

377

00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:10,320

...and now he has done it

for his friend Taylor.

378

00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:17,840

You can never tell

what war does to a human being.

379

00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,160

It brings out the beast in men.

380

00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:32,360

I'm saying this to you because

I have first-hand experience.

381

00:37:36,040 --> 00:37:40,240

And I hope you will meet more people

who will tell you the truth.

382

00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:43,680

So you believe that's the truth?

- It is the truth.

383

00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:53,320

That's an interesting way to look at it.

- Okay.

384

00:37:53,440 --> 00:37:57,200

I'm never telling you not to research.

385

00:37:57,320 --> 00:38:00,320

I think it's very good for you to research...

386

00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:05,080

...so you can know

who your father actually is.

387

00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:09,880

Do not back off. Go ahead, it's good.

388

00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:17,680

Your father may not be a hero

for working with Charles Taylor.

389

00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,200

Maybe he did terrible things.

390

00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:26,480

Maybe.

391

00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:32,480

There are skeletons

all over the streets of Monrovia.

392

00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,920

Skeletons in this space.

393

00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,720

You will never find them

unless you search for them.

394

00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:42,600

Go search them.

395

00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,280

She doesn't want to ask,

she just keeps looking.

396

00:38:54,400 --> 00:38:56,360

Keep asking.

397

00:39:21,640 --> 00:39:23,720

Are you aware...

398

00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,560

...of the things that were said?

- Yes.

399

00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,440

The accusations against him

are no small matter.

400

00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:40,520

They are in fact rather big, influential

decisions that he made.

401

00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:42,480

So what is your question?

402

00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:45,520

I doubt whether you really want to hear it.

403

00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:54,240

What is "really want to hear it"?

Why do you doubt that?

404

00:39:54,360 --> 00:40:01,200

I don't even know if as a daughter...

405

00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:06,720

...you can be objective.

I sometimes feel you listen selectively.

406

00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:17,680

So you don't think

one can be objective as a daughter?

407

00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:42,400

Because you were the youngest,

everything was Clarice, Clarice.

408

00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:45,360

Anything you wanted, he gave it to you.

409

00:40:45,480 --> 00:40:47,720

You think I'm a daddy's girl?

410

00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:53,080

I think you block certain things out and

you remember what you want to remember.

411

00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,520

Because you had such a good

relationship with him...

412

00:40:56,640 --> 00:41:02,960

...you filter any negative stuff out of your mind

and you only keep the positive.

413

00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,800

And you don't see anything, because

I'm sure that other people around you...

414

00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:10,720

...or people you have encountered

have said some stuff about him.

415

00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:13,040

And you're very smart...

416

00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,000

...so at some point

you should be like, hm...

417

00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:21,000

He has his flaws. He can be harsh.

418

00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,520

For me it's weird hearing that,

because I never really experienced it.

419

00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:32,200

It feels kind of unbelievable.

420

00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:37,360

It's really abstract, I can't really imagine it

because I haven't seen it.

421

00:41:42,240 --> 00:41:46,440

You live the best life when you have money...

422

00:41:46,560 --> 00:41:51,160

...work in government.

Nobody can say or do anything to you.

423

00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,120

So, yeah...

424

00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:59,720

It plays a lot in what he did too, because...

425

00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,960

...with power, money and fame

comes everything.

426

00:42:28,240 --> 00:42:32,360

It's 11 o'clock in the morning, which

means: time for the morning update.

427

00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:35,200

Coming to you live, with the latest news.

428

00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:43,240

The case against Mr. Gargard,

former director of Liberian Telecom...

429

00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:47,360

...has been dismissed on the ground

that the state failed to establish evidence...

430

00:42:47,480 --> 00:42:49,400

...for the allegations.

431

00:42:53,160 --> 00:42:58,320

Chief prosecutor Mr. Gould stated

his disappointment with the outcome.

432

00:42:58,440 --> 00:43:01,240

Public opinion remains divided.

433

00:43:08,960 --> 00:43:12,240

I work as a court reporter.

434

00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:20,480

I covered that case

from the beginning to the end.

435

00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:26,680

It was always attended by large crowds

of people from different areas.

436

00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,320

A cross section of students, academics,

representatives from embassies...

437

00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:37,800

...went there to see how justice

was meted out during the trial.

438

00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:43,320

Is it possible to dismiss cases

by paying off the judges?

439

00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,720

Oh yeah, people do bribe judges.

440

00:43:47,760 --> 00:43:51,680

Yes, that's very common.

You bribe judges to say:

441

00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,840

"This case has no evidence."

442

00:43:54,960 --> 00:43:58,960

In many instances this is happening.

443

00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,320

To me, my father was a well-respected man.

444

00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,360

It makes me wonder why he would work

for Charles Taylor.

445

00:44:08,120 --> 00:44:12,520

You know, many people

have different interests.

446

00:44:12,640 --> 00:44:16,760

It could be that Mr. Gargard...

447

00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:23,000

...visualized the possibility of

Charles Taylor taking the whole country.

448

00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,520

So it could be

that he was sympathetic to him.

449

00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:31,120

It could be like that. It could be.

450

00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:35,880

Many people believed

that he was sympathetic.

451

00:44:37,840 --> 00:44:40,320

Why did they believe that?

452

00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:43,040

Because Charles Taylor had money...

453

00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:48,360

...from robbing, diamonds, rubber, et cetera.

454

00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:51,120

He had millions of dollars.

455

00:44:51,240 --> 00:44:52,480

Millions.

456

00:44:53,560 --> 00:44:57,120

Just try to ask some people.

457

00:44:57,240 --> 00:45:01,600

Try to ask Dr. Sawyer. I don't know

whether you have that opportunity.

458

00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:04,160

Sawyer?

- Try to ask him.

459

00:45:04,280 --> 00:45:07,200

You're telling me

I should talk to Amos Sawyer?

460

00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:11,600

But he was the one that accused my father.

461

00:45:11,720 --> 00:45:14,200

I should talk to him?

- Yes.

462

00:45:14,320 --> 00:45:15,960

Why?

463

00:45:16,080 --> 00:45:17,480

To give you advice.

464

00:45:17,600 --> 00:45:21,080

But it should not be you

to talk to him, because...

465

00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:28,600

...he is a family man. If he sees you,

he will have different feelings.

466

00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:33,000

If somebody else can go and talk to him,

that would be better.

467

00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,680

Someone else can go and talk to him,

that would be better.

468

00:45:35,800 --> 00:45:39,640

Why do you think he would have

different feelings when he sees me?

469

00:45:39,760 --> 00:45:42,560

Will he be afraid of me?

- No.

470

00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:44,560

No, his conscience.

471

00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:49,880

Because he has children,

the same as Mr. Gargard.

472

00:45:52,440 --> 00:45:55,680

He would be embarrassed to tell you.

- So someone else should talk to him?

473

00:45:55,800 --> 00:45:58,000

Yes, that's how I feel.

474

00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,920

Hello?

- Hello, is this Mr. Sawyer speaking?

475

00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:14,200

Who is this?

- My name is Shamira Raphaëla.

476

00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,880

And I'm here in Liberia

to shoot a documentary.

477

00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,880

Part of the documentary is about a case

you were involved in.

478

00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,160

Which case is this?

- It was the case of Mr. Gargard.

479

00:46:25,280 --> 00:46:28,960

Mr. Gargard was selling secrets.

480

00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:33,160

He was recording, he was head

of the telecommunication.

481

00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:39,320

He was phone-recording the government

information, including my phone.

482

00:46:39,440 --> 00:46:42,320

And he was sending it over

to the rebel forces.

483

00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:45,640

The NPFL people were coming

frequently to his office.

484

00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,480

Whether he was taking money from them,

we don't know.

485

00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,200

But we know that he was in fact

transmitting information.

486

00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:55,880

It is both morally wrong

and it was a criminal act.

487

00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:59,160

If you cannot paint

a beautiful picture of him...

488

00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:03,280

...then why would you want to have

this man's story...

489

00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:07,240

...which is not a wholesome, healthy,

enlightening story.

490

00:47:07,360 --> 00:47:10,600

Why would you want

to have it all on film?

491

00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:17,040

I think this would be a disservice

to this man's posterity.

492

00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:22,600

Because he is not the angel

that somebody is trying to paint him to be.

493

00:47:49,760 --> 00:47:51,920

You are Gargard's daughter.

494

00:47:52,040 --> 00:47:55,640

Be proud about it.

495

00:47:57,080 --> 00:47:59,920

It brings out the beast in men.

496

00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:24,760

Do you still feel the urge

to find out the truth?

497

00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:30,240

And what does that tell you

about the man he is?

498

00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:36,040

Yes.

- Do you still feel that urge to really find out?

499

00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,600

Some of the rebels, I remember their faces.

500

00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:41,640

When I see them, if I got the power,

I want to kill them too.

501

00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:45,800

Some are still living in Monrovia.

502

00:49:46,680 --> 00:49:50,000

One rebel beat my aunty in the bush.

503

00:49:51,680 --> 00:49:53,920

Cut off her private parts.

504

00:49:57,800 --> 00:49:59,600

I can still remember.

505

00:50:01,560 --> 00:50:02,920

I can't forget it.

506

00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:05,600

Oh, no.

507

00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,600

You killed my ma, you killed my pa,

you killed my whole family.

508

00:50:11,720 --> 00:50:14,680

Whenever I see you,

it will appear to my mind.

509

00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,680

I can forgive you, but I will not forget.

510

00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:32,520

All right.

Print

Film: Daddy and the Warlord

http://www.journeyman.tv/film/7649

Transcript