Timecode

English

00:08

I’m here today because today is the birthday of a great leader of socialism. Today is Stalin’s birthday.

00:16

“For me it’s a very important day. I only love two holidays: Easter and the 21st of December. These two dates are wonderful to me, and I always yearn for the 21st of December to arrive so that we can celebrate this wonderful person’s birthday.”

00:36

Little Gori is big

It has witnessed and seen much Stalin was born there

I praise his name.

00:47

Stalinism has been revived by Putin Phenomenon

00:51

What Putin is doing today is a continuation of Stalinist policy:

confronting the West, bullying neighbors, and violating their sovereignty, whenever possible. And trying to create an existential threat for the free world.

01:15

I want to say a toast to a giant of a man, to a Georgian legend, who became world famous. To a magnificent eagle who soared high from his small nest, from his blessed hut…

To the great Stalin…

From a hut in Gori to the gates of the Kremlin, here’s to those years of struggle….

01:43

A nation that wants to be part of the free world cannot like Stalin. Those two things are incompatible.

01:57

Who is hurt when someone likes the Soviet Union?

02:00

Who exactly is hurt?

Why is it considered such a sin? If they like it, let them like it….

02:12

WHAT TO DO WITH STALIN?

02:27

It’s a very interesting question: why is Stalin still so popular in Georgia?

INFOBOX

For years, historian Lasha Bakradze has been trying to figure out how tiny Georgia should deal with the outsized legacy of its most infamous son.

02:50

Russia needs Stalin as a superhero.

Stalin is very important to Russia, because much of its modern mythology is built around the Soviet victory in the World War II and that huge empire Stalin created.

03:09

Georgia, on the other hand, doesn’t need Stalin. And yet he remains surprisingly prominent.

There is an affinity for Stalin as ‘our boy.’

And of course he has also become a folk hero.

There are countless jokes about Stalin stories about how clever he was, how wise, about his sense of humor and so on.

So Stalin has become a kind of folk hero in Georgia. But Georgia does not have any use for Stalin as a hero.

03:53

And yet he is a hero.

There are plenty of polls that show that Stalin is still popular in Georgia

04:14

we are at the turning point between two very different societies…

04:24

If we take people who lived in the former USSR, they lived in one kind of society

and then they were forced to live in another kind of society. So now we have this debate, which was better?

The one we lived in then, or the one we live in now?

Many people can’t answer this question.

04:47

They think about what life was like then and about what they have now…

This plays a big role…

05:02

I started working at the museum in 1983. This year is my 35-year work anniversary.

05:19

-     Hello

05:24

-     Hi

05:28

-     Hello Rusiko.

05:30

-     Hi

05:34

-     Are they with you?

05:37

-     Me, me...

05:40

-     Hello.

05:47

They say we have more visitors than any other museum in Georgia.

I don’t know if that true, but if they say so, that’s probably the way it is.

05:59

On the one hand, I’m surprised that visitors to Georgia come here?! There are so many historic sites to see,

so why are they interested in Stalin? Maybe it’s fashionable now?

I don’t know, I don’t know…

06:16

This is the cabin of the officer who supervised the whole train. Next is the cabin of Stalin’s head of security, Lieutenant-General Vlasik.

The next cabin belonged to Stalin’s assistant, General Poskrebyshev.

06:41

-     Several times Stalin was exiled. As I have told you before, he managed to escape each time, except for the last time.

06:50

That time he ended up in the far north, in Zimoviye, in the Turukhan region. There, beyond the Arctic Circle, Stalin spent four, long years.

He tried to escape twice, but both times they caught and brought him back.

07:06

They beat him, and his left hand, which had bothered him from his childhood withered and become shorter that his right.

07:17

-       What? you are from here?

-       Yes, Karaganda.

-       Karaganda? That’s Kazakhstan?

-       You are from there? And you live there now?

-       Yes.

07:25

Stalin in my idol.

He did a lot of good for the Soviet nation.

While on a visit to Georgia, I felt obligated to visit his birthplace.

07:35

Stalin was able to turn a patch of uncultivated land into a nuclear power. To build a state, you have to do bad things too.

As they say, “when you shop wood, chips will fly”.

07:56

The Gori museum, in its current form, is an embarrassment for Georgia.

Because the museum glorifies a man who committed countless atrocities and is responsible for the deaths of millions of people.

This is also very important for us, it glorifies a man

who is responsible for destroying this country’s independence and for exterminating the best of its people.

08:48

Right now we are in the museum of the Soviet Occupation. It’s opened while we were in power.

08:57

When the Russians heard that we created this museum, President Putin said: “Stalin...Beria...Orjonikidze...These were Georgians… What occupation are you talking about?”

09:10

Indeed, today, the most damaging propaganda attack coming from Russia is all built around Stalin’s personality…

09:20

Why? Because Stalin was from here, he was a Georgian. wasn’t he? He was!

He conquered such heights, he was a rwol leader, “Shouldn’t we be proud of him?”

This is narrative they pursue

to try and build anti-Western pseudo-nationalism in Georgia.

09:41

INFOBOX

The counter-narrative is the story of the Russian occupation of Georgia in 1921, through to the most recent war in 2008

Gori, Stalin’s, and Olga’s, hometown was bombed

09:57

These are photographs from the 2008 military conflict with Russia.

10:04

You can find more information about it at the military museum we have in Gori.

We don’t have information about this.

10:14

INFOBOX

There is now a room in this museum that acknowledges Stalin’s darker side.

10:21

Here we have clothing of some Gori residents who were shot in the 1930s.

There are some photographs here.

Inside there are belongings of real Gori residents arrested during that period.

10:40

Repression is a terrible, but small, part of Soviet history. Just a small part. It’s not the whole story.

You can’t judge…

10:51

You know, one Israeli public figure

who is often on Russian television said it very well. He said: “You cannot judge socialism by repression just as you can’t judge Christianity by the Inquisition”.

11:13

It is impossible to aspire to NATO or EU membership and also have a six meter statue to Joseph Stalin, even it if it is in his hometown.

11:27

Infobox

Gori,

June 15, 2010

11:29

I was the one who announced the removal of the Stalin statue in his hometown, in Gori. And I am proud of that.

We removed it, but we didn’t manage to sort out the museum. It was an attention lapse, rather than a lack of courage...

11:47

I was publicly against removing the statue, because I believe that first you need to educate people, you need to explain to people what role Stalin really played.

The priority is not removing symbols. What matters is that people understand what the Soviet Union was all about.

And what it was all about under Stalin and what the totalitarian regime actually meant.

12:11

We found out the next day. Why? Why was it removed? That’s what people said.

No one asked people’s opinion. No one.

12:22

For a while we kept the statue somewhere. We didn’t know what to do with it…

The Chinese asked us to sell it to them. They wanted it as a souvenir, but for some reason everyone thought the idea was a joke.

We didn’t give it to the Chinese. I think it’s still lying there somewhere in Gori

12:46

-       We want to film the Stalin statue, it’s somewhere here isn’t it?

-       They took it down.

-        Man, but it’s somewhere isn’t it? In the yard of some factory?

-        I don’t know, somewhere in the area of Karaleti.

-        The people from the government took it away, so how are we supposed to know where it is?

13:21

INFOBOX

Bakradze is a member of a government committee set up to re-imagine the Stalin museum.

It still exists, but no longer meets regularly.

Meanwhile, dozens of new, smaller statues to Stalin have been popping up across Georgia since the current government took power in 2012.

On paper the de-Stalinization program still exists, but it is no longer a priority.

13:40

There are two sides to this issue.

One is the attitude of our society towards Stalin’s personality, towards his phenomenon. The second is how relevant or how interesting he really is.

The still this (Stalin) issue used to cause,

today I really think it has gone, and I will say once again, that its relevance is decreasing by the day.

14:09

The fundamental problem Georgia faces today is the attitude towards its Soviet past, among the people and the political elite.

This ambiguous attitude towards the Soviet past

is at best irresponsible, and at worst extremely dangerous. One of our ministers said recently at some conference: “With or without Stalin, we will be part of Europe”

No, my friend. With Stalin, we will never be part of Europe.

14:48

Joseph Besarionovich Stalin died on March 5, 1953, from a cerebral hemorrhage.

He was 73 years old.

Six hours after his death, the famous Soviet sculptor, Manizer created Stalin’s death mask.

Please follow me to the next hall.

15:17

A mass murderer should not have a museum that glorifies him. Why is there no museum to Hitler in Austria?

Because it is unimaginable.

Why is there no memorial? No statue? Because you can’t have that. Full stop.

15:32

Parallels between HItler and Stalin? That’s an insanity. I don’t want to speak about this.

It’s insane to seriously discuss this.

15:48

Why is it such a sin to like the Soviet Union? So someone likes it, let them like it.

What harm does it do to our life today? To today’s order?

16:05

-     There, why are you smiling? What do you tink?

Reporter - What do I think?

No but I am saying why is it such a crime to like Stalin, Lenin, the Soviet Union?

Why is it so dangerous for society? I don’t understand. What harm do these people do?

No one can take away the right to remember that time. Especially not from the people who lived back then.

16:28

What are you saying: forget that life? Forget your youth? Forget everything? That’s very strange….

16:40

This is exactly what Russia wants. Today, this is what Putin wants in Georgia. He wants people to think this way.

16:48

Oga’s attitude is perfect reflection of how well Russian propaganda has worked.

16:55

(Russian media)

Attention! This is Stalin. These are carnations. This is today.

17:01

INFOBOX

Over the last few years, voices praising Stalin have grown more prominent on Russian state TV.

The debate, the Soviet dictator is causing, is fierce.

17:02

Stalin was the last statesman who cared about his country. Who did not give a damn about his personal interests,

his personal wealth, his personal comfort.

17:14

-       Stalin destroyed the top of the red army ahead of the war.

-       All of it?

-       Not the all of it. Almost all of it.

-       You are lying when you use the word “all”.

-       Then hit me.

-       You want me to hit you?

-       Gentlemen, we are broadcasting live to Youtube, what you are doing?

17:36

-     You know, Shevchenko and Svanidze got into fight.

The stuff they were saying, you won’t belive it…

-       Shevchenko?

-       Yes. They fought over Stalin.

-       Ah, so Svanidze was anti-Stalin, and Shevchenko?

-       Shevchenko defended him.

-       And it all started because Shevchenko said that Churchill said something to Stalin in the airport, in 1942

-       But the other one started laughing and said:

-       “You are lying Stalin never met anyone at the airport”.

-       That’s true.

-       And he was saying Stalin had said something to Churchill?

-       They said Churchill told him:

-       “You had a choice between war and shame, and you chose both war and shame”.

-       They are making up fairy tales…

-       Come on, and like Churchill would say between shame and war…

-       And what did he mean by shameful?

-

18:34

Understanding the Soviet past and thinking through it is extremely important if only because we can see

how effectively Russian propaganda is using the sentiments towards the Soviet past, creating nostalgia.

Also, understanding totalitarianism is key

if we ever want to build a normal, democratic and free country. If that doesn’t happen, I doubt we will ever creat a normal state.

19:53

I really didn’t think that the statue would just be lying outside decaying in the wind and rain.

20:00

Since no one knows what to do with it,

my suggestion would be to put it in the Stalin Museum. We could either lay it downstairs or hang it over entrance.

20:20

(DEMONSTRATOR)

Hunger is destroying our country. There is no economy anymore. Unemployment is soaring. And not just in Georgia.

All over the post-Soviet space, and across the whole world, disorder looms Imperialist countries are running the world

and they are proud of the fact that people, common people, have forgotten Stalin. That no one respects Stalin.”

21:07

We began the de-Stalinization process, but we didn’t finish it.

I feel proud of what we have done, and I regret that we didn’t have time to finish.

21:32

Georgia today needs to get to know the real Stalin. Without myths.

We need to get to know the real him and make our conclusions. Some things were done, like this museum, but it is very little.

21:48

We made many mistakes

23:02

Of course we need to learn from the past. And if the past contained something revolting, it is best not to repeat it.

But the thing is, it will repeat itself.

We can debate it all you want, but it all comes back… People don’t learn lessons from history…

They don’t learn...

22:50

The winter is upon us.