00:00:11:00
--> 00:00:12:15
Lord, I'm ashamed of my life.
00:00:13:15
--> 00:00:16:14
This morning I felt strongly
that my relationship
00:00:16:18
--> 00:00:20:03
with that boy was wrong and sad.
00:00:20:21
--> 00:00:23:13
It broke my heart
and tore it in two.
00:00:24:10
--> 00:00:29:04
Heal me. Cleanse our bodies.
Heal our memories.
00:00:29:08
--> 00:00:31:15
Erase these acts and thoughts
from the book of life.
00:00:33:05
--> 00:00:36:01
I love you so much.
I hope one day you will heal me.
00:00:38:11
--> 00:00:41:19
When he wrote this journal,
Adrian was 19 years old.
00:00:41:23
--> 00:00:44:10
He'd been an evangelical Christian
for five years
00:00:44:13
--> 00:00:47:18
and decided to start
conversion therapy.
00:00:47:22
--> 00:00:50:11
It took place in Maryland,
in the United States,
00:00:50:14
--> 00:00:52:18
with an
evangelical pseudo-therapist.
00:00:55:05
--> 00:00:58:08
It struck me that several times,
00:00:58:11
--> 00:01:02:12
the therapist repeated to me:
"You're not a homosexual.
00:01:02:16
--> 00:01:04:18
"That's not the problem.
It's not a big deal.
00:01:04:22
--> 00:01:07:06
"You're not a homosexual."
00:01:07:10
--> 00:01:13:16
That view of things
was so deeply rooted in my being
00:01:13:20
--> 00:01:20:19
that I couldn't step back
or take those ideas apart
00:01:20:23
--> 00:01:23:12
to go back to a neutral vision,
a new vision
00:01:23:16
--> 00:01:26:02
of my sexuality and identity.
00:01:27:17
--> 00:01:30:10
It took Adrian 15 years
to rebuild himself.
00:01:30:13
--> 00:01:33:07
Today, he's left
the evangelical church.
00:01:33:11
--> 00:01:35:11
We met him in Plainpalais,
00:01:35:15
--> 00:01:39:18
at a church where the rainbow flag
hangs alongside the cross.
00:01:40:17
--> 00:01:41:18
This interview
00:01:41:22
--> 00:01:46:07
marked the first time he spoke
in detail of his
conversion therapy.
00:01:48:22
--> 00:01:50:01
It makes me sad.
00:01:50:05
--> 00:01:57:10
Because I realize
how much I believed it.
00:01:57:13
--> 00:02:00:04
At that time in my life,
I could have said to myself
00:02:00:08
--> 00:02:04:19
that these desires I had for a boy
00:02:04:23
--> 00:02:08:17
may have simply been fine.
00:02:09:03
--> 00:02:13:03
I could have been proud of it.
I could've had a
loving relationship.
00:02:15:19
--> 00:02:20:04
BEING GAY AT
CHURCH
00:02:21:11
--> 00:02:24:04
Most major religions
condemn homosexuality,
00:02:24:08
--> 00:02:26:14
based mainly
on a text from the Bible,
00:02:26:18
--> 00:02:28:19
the description
of Sodom and Gomorrah.
00:02:28:23
--> 00:02:32:08
With heterosexuality put forth
as the only acceptable path,
00:02:32:11
--> 00:02:35:19
any deviation is rejected,
sometimes brutally.
00:02:38:02
--> 00:02:40:00
I think I was broken inside.
00:02:40:04
--> 00:02:45:18
I think my
identity was taken from me
00:02:45:22
--> 00:02:48:00
and shattered into pieces.
00:02:48:18
--> 00:02:50:13
It took me 15 years
00:02:50:17
--> 00:02:53:21
to pick up the
pieces of my identity
00:02:54:01
--> 00:02:56:01
and become a person again.
00:02:58:03
--> 00:03:02:16
I think it was actually abuse.
00:03:03:11
--> 00:03:08:11
I think most young people who are
going through what I went through
00:03:10:09
--> 00:03:15:08
will not be able to emotionally
and psychologically recover alone
00:03:15:11
--> 00:03:19:10
without support and without
a structure to help them rebuild.
00:03:20:14
--> 00:03:24:23
How many in our country have
been victims of these treatments?
00:03:27:18
--> 00:03:30:08
Pink
Cross, an association
for gays in Switzerland,
00:03:30:11
--> 00:03:32:05
is monitoring the issue from Bern.
00:03:32:09
--> 00:03:37:05
The practice of
conversion therapies,
although
discreet, is not uncommon.
00:03:39:11
--> 00:03:41:04
There are many
cases in Switzerland.
00:03:41:08
--> 00:03:44:09
I saw a study recently
on Great Britain,
00:03:44:12
--> 00:03:46:12
which was a fairly reliable study
00:03:46:16
--> 00:03:48:00
on these cases.
00:03:48:04
--> 00:03:51:00
It said that 2% of LGBT people
00:03:51:04
--> 00:03:53:11
go to these kinds of people
00:03:53:14
--> 00:03:56:08
for group or individual therapy.
00:03:56:11
--> 00:04:01:02
In Switzerland, 2% would be
between 16,000 and 14,000 people.
00:04:01:06
--> 00:04:04:06
So it's a lot of people.
00:04:04:10
--> 00:04:06:11
These people will have scars
for life.
00:04:06:15
--> 00:04:09:08
They'll have problems
with themselves,
00:04:09:11
--> 00:04:10:19
won't accept themselves,
00:04:10:23
--> 00:04:15:04
and have a much higher rate
of suicide than others.
00:04:15:08
--> 00:04:17:04
So the effects remain.
00:04:18:01
--> 00:04:20:01
But they had to
find specific cases.
00:04:20:15
--> 00:04:22:23
In November 2018,
Pink Cross began working
00:04:23:03
--> 00:04:25:08
with a journalist
from Gesundheitstipp
00:04:25:11
--> 00:04:28:00
trying to catch
a Schwyz psychiatrist in the act.
00:04:28:11
--> 00:04:32:03
Six months later,
the plan finally worked.
00:04:32:07
--> 00:04:37:17
The first meeting took place
in Küssnacht, in Lucerne.
00:04:37:21
--> 00:04:39:11
Accompanying a fake patient,
00:04:39:14
--> 00:04:41:19
the journalist went
to see the therapist.
00:04:42:06
--> 00:04:43:20
The doctor's words were clear.
00:04:44:23 -->
00:04:47:11
"We will look together
at what you like about men,
00:04:47:14
--> 00:04:49:12
"because
that's what you're lacking.
00:04:49:16
--> 00:04:51:05
"You must become a real man
00:04:51:09
--> 00:04:53:10
"and feel good about being a man."
00:04:54:06
--> 00:04:57:19
The psychiatrist even said
that public health insurance
00:04:57:23
--> 00:04:59:20
would pay for the
first 40 sessions,
00:05:00:00
--> 00:05:02:08
or the first two years of therapy.
00:05:03:07
--> 00:05:04:13
The most shocking thing
00:05:04:17
--> 00:05:06:17
is it's not just
this psychiatrist.
00:05:06:21
--> 00:05:09:10
It's probably not
an isolated case.
00:05:09:13
--> 00:05:12:04
Insurance is paying for others
to do this.
00:05:12:08
--> 00:05:14:17
It means that many people
in Switzerland,
00:05:14:21
--> 00:05:19:05
you, me, are paying, through
our taxes and insurance premiums.
00:05:19:09
--> 00:05:21:11
We're paying
these kinds of charlatans.
00:05:21:15
--> 00:05:22:22
That's what they are.
00:05:23:02
--> 00:05:26:06
They're ripping people off
00:05:26:10
--> 00:05:30:16
and committing serious acts,
because the scars remain.
00:05:30:20
--> 00:05:36:10
They cause psychological
and emotional pain.
00:05:36:13
--> 00:05:40:14
It's very
difficult for us to accept.
00:05:42:13
--> 00:05:45:15
We tried several times
to speak to the psychiatrist.
00:05:45:19
--> 00:05:48:01
We got a polite but firm refusal.
00:05:48:05
--> 00:05:50:22
He said there's a media campaign
against him.
00:05:53:23
--> 00:05:56:13
But the doctor
told us to watch this film,
00:05:56:17
--> 00:05:58:05
which, he said,
00:05:58:09
--> 00:06:00:03
presents his point of view.
00:06:00:17
--> 00:06:04:16
The film producer, trained
psychologist Joseph Nicolosi,
00:06:04:20
--> 00:06:08:16
is a figure in
the very controversial
world of "reintegration therapy."
00:06:10:18
--> 00:06:13:18
What defines us is not
who we have sex with
00:06:13:22
--> 00:06:16:14
or our sexual desires.
Those are our values.
00:06:17:09
--> 00:06:20:11
Judaism, Christianity,
Buddhism, Islam
00:06:20:15
--> 00:06:24:02
and Greek philosophers
like Socrates all agree.
00:06:24:06
--> 00:06:27:12
It is not our
desires that define us.
It is our values.
00:06:29:12
--> 00:06:32:03
Setting a goal for psychotherapy,
00:06:32:07
--> 00:06:35:04
especially a goal
related to values
and ideologies,
00:06:35:08
--> 00:06:36:21
is not acceptable.
00:06:37:01
--> 00:06:42:00
I think there are probably many
psychiatrists and psychotherapists
00:06:42:04
--> 00:06:46:01
who are interested in patients'
spiritual and
religious difficulties
00:06:46:05
--> 00:06:49:19
but never with the aim
of converting them.
00:06:51:02
--> 00:06:54:19
Jacques Besson
has worked on the link
between religion and psychiatry.
00:06:54:23
--> 00:06:57:09
He is currently training
the medical profession
00:06:57:12
--> 00:07:00:11
on the link
between spirituality and medicine.
00:07:02:14
--> 00:07:06:17
The goal of psychotherapy is
to increase the subject's autonomy
00:07:06:21
--> 00:07:08:19
and freedom,
00:07:08:23
--> 00:07:12:10
to help them find who they are
deep inside, biologically,
00:07:12:13
--> 00:07:14:19
psychologically, socially
and culturally.
00:07:14:23
--> 00:07:17:14
So obviously, conversion therapy
makes no sense.
00:07:17:18
--> 00:07:21:22
Psychiatric societies,
international associations,
00:07:22:02
--> 00:07:25:22
and diagnostic trouble codes
in the WHO and United States
00:07:26:02
--> 00:07:29:22
are absolutely not in favor
of this type of therapy.
00:07:30:02
--> 00:07:34:06
Forgive me the image,
but it's a bit like brainwashing.
00:07:36:17
--> 00:07:40:16
1970 was a historic year
for the homosexual community.
00:07:40:20
--> 00:07:42:21
Thousands of people
took to the streets
00:07:43:01
--> 00:07:45:03
to commemorate
the Stonewall riots.
00:07:45:20
--> 00:07:49:19
Despite increasing visibility
and hard-won rights,
00:07:49:23
--> 00:07:51:23
it was only in 1992
00:07:52:03
--> 00:07:53:11
that the WHO
00:07:53:14
--> 00:07:56:03
removed homosexuality
from its list of mental illnesses.
00:08:01:11
--> 00:08:03:20
André is a homosexual
and a Christian.
00:08:04:10
--> 00:08:06:05
He came out late in life.
00:08:06:16
--> 00:08:09:16
He was involved in an evangelical
fundamentalist movement
00:08:10:07
--> 00:08:13:18
where homosexuality
was simply banned.
00:08:16:05
--> 00:08:22:23
It was about a year
before I came out.
00:08:23:03
--> 00:08:28:11
I was encouraged to go to therapy.
00:08:31:12
--> 00:08:34:21
I believed it somewhat,
because I needed to believe it.
00:08:35:01
--> 00:08:40:03
I knew that my social
and family life
would be shattered.
00:08:40:07
--> 00:08:46:07
I think my objective
was to be saved from a situation
00:08:46:18
--> 00:08:49:01
that I saw deteriorating.
00:08:49:05
--> 00:08:53:11
I wanted to be able to continue
living in the closet,
00:08:53:15
--> 00:08:56:02
but it was no longer possible.
00:08:56:06
--> 00:09:00:20
I think I saw it as help
00:09:01:00
--> 00:09:05:06
in containing my reality.
00:09:05:16
--> 00:09:07:05
In Neuchâtel, in 2015,
00:09:07:09
--> 00:09:11:04
André was in a group conversion
therapy called "Torrents of Life."
00:09:11:23
--> 00:09:12:20
For 30 weeks,
00:09:13:05
--> 00:09:17:08
around 40 people followed
a program developed in the US.
00:09:18:20
--> 00:09:22:10
Swiss leaders of
the movement refused
our requests for interviews.
00:09:22:22
--> 00:09:24:14
As an idea of
what he went through,
00:09:25:06
--> 00:09:27:23
André showed us this American film
released this year.
00:09:28:12
--> 00:09:30:03
It was based on the true story
00:09:30:07
--> 00:09:32:03
of a homosexual boy
and pastor's son.
00:09:32:14
--> 00:09:34:08
André saw many similarities
00:09:34:11
--> 00:09:36:12
with the type of therapy
he underwent.
00:09:36:16
--> 00:09:38:12
OK. In the meantime, pretend.
00:09:38:16 -->
00:09:39:15
Be the man you're not.
00:09:39:19
--> 00:09:41:03
Save your soul!
00:09:41:07
--> 00:09:42:01
You want that?
00:09:42:15
--> 00:09:43:23
Who will destroy the demon?
00:09:44:07
--> 00:09:45:04
Hit him!
00:09:47:13
--> 00:09:51:13
I thought I experienced something
very different, much softer.
00:09:52:07
--> 00:09:56:13
Yes, it was less aggressive.
But as for the substance,
00:09:57:10
--> 00:10:00:06
it
was an exact replica
of what I experienced.
00:10:00:10
--> 00:10:05:11
The basic
premise, the manipulation,
00:10:05:14
--> 00:10:07:22
the seizing of
power over a person.
00:10:08:02
--> 00:10:12:15
You're talking about terrible
psychological abuse.
00:10:12:19
--> 00:10:13:23
Yes.
00:10:14:03
--> 00:10:19:05
To me,
it's serious psychological abuse.
00:10:22:02
--> 00:10:23:23
The goal of the therapy
00:10:24:03 -->
00:10:29:02
is to bring us around
to healthy heterosexuality.
00:10:29:21
--> 00:10:33:15
But the language is completely
hidden and subversive.
00:10:33:19
--> 00:10:35:15
Because when you are encouraged
00:10:35:19 -->
00:10:39:16
and especially when you talk
about it outside,
00:10:41:05
--> 00:10:43:22
they avoid the term "healing."
00:10:45:23
--> 00:10:51:01
They avoid the
term "reorientation."
They just talk about help.
00:10:51:05
--> 00:10:54:09
When in fact, the
notions of healing,
00:10:54:12
--> 00:10:57:22
reorientation and control
00:10:58:02
--> 00:11:01:00
are omnipresent in the therapy.
00:11:04:21
--> 00:11:07:22
I lost my train of thought,
because it really gets to me.
00:11:10:03
--> 00:11:11:19
We're talking about trauma.
00:11:17:11
--> 00:11:19:09
-Does it deeply affect you?
-It does,
00:11:19:12
--> 00:11:24:17
because this notion
of restoring masculinity
00:11:24:21
--> 00:11:27:00
means, "You're not a man."
00:11:27:04
--> 00:11:29:23
They give you an extremely
disparaging message
00:11:30:03
--> 00:11:33:05
about your personality.
00:11:33:15
--> 00:11:39:03
That may be one of the worst parts
of these therapies.
00:11:39:07
--> 00:11:42:04
They immerse you
00:11:42:08
--> 00:11:48:17
in a vile bath of saying,
"You're not who you should be."
00:11:50:14
--> 00:11:56:19
Today, with the perspective
that I've been fortunate to get,
00:11:56:23
--> 00:11:58:19
I have no problem saying,
00:11:59:10
--> 00:12:03:00
"Yes, I am gay and Christian."
00:12:08:09
--> 00:12:12:01
Gay Pride celebrated its 50th
anniversary this summer in Geneva.
00:12:12:05
--> 00:12:14:16
Among the struggles
of the homosexual community,
00:12:14:20
--> 00:12:17:22
prohibiting conversion therapies
has become key.
00:12:18:10
--> 00:12:21:16
The German and
Austrian parliaments
will legislate on the issue.
00:12:22:08
--> 00:12:26:00
In Switzerland, awareness
has clearly been raised too.
00:12:26:12
--> 00:12:28:23
In June, PBD member
Rosmarie Quadranti
00:12:29:03
--> 00:12:31:05
filed a motion calling for a ban
00:12:31:09
--> 00:12:33:17
on conversion therapies
offered to minors.
00:12:34:09
--> 00:12:38:02
It has a good chance of getting
majority support in Parliament.
00:12:40:11
--> 00:12:43:20
Today, people understand
that homosexuality
00:12:44:00
--> 00:12:46:19
is not a disease
that needs to be treated.
00:12:47:10
--> 00:12:50:09
You must be able to live your life
as you wish.
00:12:50:12
--> 00:12:53:15
These conversion therapies
should no longer exist.
00:12:54:15
--> 00:12:57:18
They are a crime
against children and minors.
00:12:59:12
--> 00:13:02:14
From the beginning, the motion
had the Pink Cross's support.
00:13:02:18
--> 00:13:04:13
Another aspect of the bill
00:13:04:17
--> 00:13:06:19
is prohibiting
licensed professionals
00:13:06:23
--> 00:13:09:00
from practicing
conversion therapy.
00:13:09:11
--> 00:13:11:16
That's an
essential part of the bill.
00:13:11:20
--> 00:13:15:18
It means we don't want
licensed professionals
00:13:15:22
--> 00:13:18:10
to be able to
provide this therapy.
00:13:23:04
--> 00:13:25:21
Banning it will
send a clear signal
00:13:26:01
--> 00:13:28:18
to groups that practice
these therapies.
00:13:28:22
--> 00:13:33:00
It will be
prohibited and punishable.
00:13:35:23
--> 00:13:38:00
I think that's the big advantage.
00:13:38:04
--> 00:13:40:13
Because today,
this is happening in the shadows,
00:13:40:17
--> 00:13:42:15
and we need to be firm about this.
00:13:42:19
--> 00:13:44:18
This must not happen anymore.
00:13:49:22
--> 00:13:54:14
Adrian is now in
charge of the LGBTI
antenna of the LAB in Geneva.
00:13:55:09
--> 00:13:56:17
He says political decisions
00:13:56:21
--> 00:13:59:13
must be supported
by efforts on the ground.
00:14:01:23
--> 00:14:05:10
I promote the criminalization
of conversion
therapy in Switzerland,
00:14:05:13
--> 00:14:09:05
but I think it is essential
to work on other fronts as well,
00:14:09:20
--> 00:14:15:02
such as raising awareness
00:14:15:06
--> 00:14:18:20
and having a dialogue
with churches and institutions
00:14:19:00
--> 00:14:20:14
who perform these therapies.
00:14:21:06
--> 00:14:22:13
A second essential thing,
00:14:22:17
--> 00:14:25:13
which is at the heart
of what I'm trying to do,
00:14:25:17
--> 00:14:29:23
is offering an alternative,
a platform that
provides a framework
00:14:30:03
--> 00:14:34:17
in which any young person can live
with unconditional acceptance
00:14:34:21
--> 00:14:40:04
of their sexual orientation
and spiritual and
religious beliefs.
00:14:41:17
--> 00:14:45:21
Adrian has found a balance between
his identity and spirituality.
00:14:46:06
--> 00:14:47:09
It took him 15 years,
00:14:48:00
--> 00:14:51:15
years of suffering that he hopes
to help others avoid.