ARI NY

LOCATION TITLE: NEW YORK

Shower etc

Ari walking

Ari talking to camera

Walking etc

CARD:

ARI NY p2

ARI NAGEL (UPSOT)

ARI NY p2 27:11 My twins in the Bronx were conceived over there

Ari NY p2. ARI: (25:29)

Churches are good. If it's a Sunday, they're ovulating on a Sunday, you can use a church restroom. They're always welcoming. 

Ari walking

Upbeat, quirky music

ARI NY p2: 25:00 Ari walking eating front on

ARI NY p2: 17:57 wide Ari walking from behind

VO: This is Ari Nagel. He’s a 46 year-old maths professor, and being good with numbers is useful for the other hat he wears...as a prolific DIY sperm donor.

Ari walking

Possible Cutaways:

ARI NY p2: 17:25 side profile walking

ARI NY p2: 17:35 feet

For cutaways, try start of ARI Ny p1. 

ARI UPSOTS

ARI NY p2 (27:43)

I've used a radio city music hall over there on the corner. They have beautiful restrooms.

Ari walking on the streets, past places he’s donated in

VO: Ari’s helped conceive more than 90 children...handing over his sperm in some quite unusual situations. 

ARI UPSOTS

Ari NY p2: (33:11) I had a friend who was having a birthday party, like a cookout

(33:46) I just grabbed one of these red solo cups at the party. I go into the bathroom, I jerk off into the cup. I come back to the party and I tell everyone, nobody drink from this cup. You know, uh, there'll be a lesbian couple here. They'll be here within the hour and they'll come pick it up and put the sperm inside.

Ari with phone? (ARI NY p2) 53:33

VO: Ari is among a growing number of private sperm donors - recipients find him and others through word of mouth, or via online forums and apps. 

He gives his sperm away for free...and has built a whole persona around his super-donor status

Sperm vitamin ad

https://www.instagram.com/p/BopEvZonV46/

Source: Ari Nagel/Sperm XL

·         Quill looking at picture she made of donor dad.

·         Quill CU on face

OR

·         Quill looking at pic of donor dad

·         Quill at beach, and end on hero shot?

OR:

·         Lab pics

·         Quill looking at pic of donor dad

·         Quill CU on face

ARI UPSOT (from advertisement)

My name is Ari Nagel, and people often ask me what’s my secret to having a high sperm count. I recommend Sperm XL…

VO: But with demand for donor sperm booming – what does it mean for the next generation of donor conceived kids?

PROGRAM TITLE CARD:

DESPERATELY SEEKING SPERM

·         Establishing shot of NY building exterior

·         Wide of Ari looking at photos 1:28:34

VO:  November is a big month for Ari Nagel – that’s when he’ll reach 100 biological children.

·         Photos from 1:23:20

Ari: (01:52)

 Well, I had two children born Thursday, so that's going to be 94 or 95.

Ari on phone

Show kid on screen 46:46

ARI UPSOT

40:36 Hi, how you doing?

46:38 oh you did her hair so nice, she’s got a nice little puff over there

46:46 Hey cutie

VO:

VO: ARI SAYS HE’S BECOME A SUPER SPERM DONOR TO HELP WOMEN IN NEED

 ARI UPSOT

47:08 does she say any words? Say dada, da da.

VO: But I want to know if there’s anything else that drives him.

Set up Elise here as reporter – show her greeting Ari over zoom. D2C1 53:18 Ari walking in

At the end of the IV. Ari Syd 51:00 or thereabouts. Elise saying hi

Question and answer here on motivation

ELISE: (23:05)

 Why do you keep doing this?

Ari: (23:13)

 My motivation, I think changed over time. Maybe when I had one child and it was a son, I wanted a girl, so you have one of each, but after I had a boy and a girl,

I was getting asked for help to grow their family by lesbian couples, or heterosexual couples, or single women whose biological clock was ticking.

Ari: (23:27)

I saw how happy the children are and I saw how happy the moms are, and

knowing that I'd be able to help them have a lifetime of joy and happiness with little or no effort on my part.

Maybe use ARi’s UGC here – him with kids on merry-go-round? Or cuts of him with babies?

https://sbs.sharepoint.com/:f:/s/Dateline2021StoryDocuments-SPERMDONOR_Elise/Et8GmiyeFiZOtSPLAhp0O_gBgcjhEcLOPA9hCPqr6G7udg?e=lddD2u

VO: There’s no contract with Ari, no expectations on the recipients - and he says he doesn’t turn anyone away.

His level of contact with the children depends largely on what the parents want.

Ari getting on train

Master interview

ARI NAGEL IV

Ari: (09:24)

it varies, and it's different for each family. Some kids I see all the time, and there's some kids I’ve never even met

Ari: (09:54)

Some of my kids call me Ari and some of them call me dad, and some of them don't call me, and some of them call me donor dad. And then, of course, depending on the language, they might have different words for father, but it varies, but I think it's certainly much more natural for them to at least know who I am, even if they're... I'm not actively playing role. And it's dynamic, so it changes.

Transition to Ashley & Aaliyah

Ari arriving

Greeting Ashley

In car on way to pick up Alia

VO:  Today Ari is picking up one of his kids from childcare

And taking her to lunch, along with her mum

Ari and Ashley picking 2 yo Alia up from daycare

(Ari NY p3)

ARI & ASHLEY UPSOT

59:03 Ashley: Who’s that? Who’s that?

59:16 Ari: That was such a nice hullo

59:40 Ari: Here we go, look at that smile. 

Alia: Thankyou Daddy

Ashley: She knows who you are

Ari: Of course she does

VO: Ashley’s had two daughters using Ari’s sperm...Aria - named after her dad - and 2 year old Aaliyah

(ARI NY p3)

At cafe - Ari holding child

Try around 1:08:03 instead of café shot?

ARI & ASHLEY UPSOT

1:09:22 Ashley: She looks like you. Everyone tells me that and I don’t see it. This is the first time I’ve seen it.

Ari: It’s like I’m looking in the mirror

Ashley, Ari and Alia at cafe

Ashley OTF interview: ARI NY p3

​​ASHLEY OTF IV

Ari NY p3 ASHLEY: When we first met him after Aria was born, she was about 2 months old. And we met her, we met another sibling and he called Ari daddy. And I literally freaked out, this is not what I wanted. And, but as I grew I realised it's good for her to have that person she can have that label, so she doesn't feel like she's missing out on anything,

ASHLEY: he is pretty much the fun guy, he comes he plays, he has fun, and I do all the heavy lifting. [01:25:35] But he's always there when I ask him to be, I've never had an issue with that. 

ASHLEY: 1:15:00 What do I think drives Ari? I used to think helping people is what his main goal. Right now I think it's numbers

Transition to hotel room. 

Ari NY p1: 3:14 (NY highrise)

Ari NY p1: 9: 46 (view from room)

Ari Ny p2: 14:15

Ari in room, packing bags, talking to camera

ARI UPSOT

ARI NY p1: (11:34)

So, uh, tomorrow I'm going to Warsaw, I'm meeting, a lesbian couple. They're from Poland and I'm going to, um, help them conceive. 

VO: Ari’s nearly 100 biological children are spread out around the world. He’s about to embark on a donating spree across Europe.

(ARI NYp1)

Ari packing

Ari taking out menstrual cup, giving a demo.

Note: he gave the demo a few times, and the camo got closeups on the cup etc.

ARI UPSOT

Ari NY p1 ARI: (15:16)

I also of course, uh, uh, take the shirt, it's my daddy shirt.

ALT

Ari hands over the sperm in various ways – HE DEMONSTRATES the cheapest and simplest method

Uh these are menstrual cups, they cost less than a dollar here

ARI: (16:10)

basically, uh, the sperm would go in here and then it squeeze it right, very flexible. And then they put their foot up right and squat a little bit and then they would just slide it in their vagina and leave it there for 12 hours. And then they, uh, take it out. And that, that holds the sperm close to the cervix so that they don't have much to swim. Um, and  I have 23 kids on the way. Eight of them were conceived in a clinic. The other, um, 15 were all conceived using this soft cup.

VO: There’s not much holding Ari back. He’s single. He has three kids conceived during a relationship - but they live with their mum.

Even a global pandemic hasn’t slowed him down.

ARI: (13:33)

But you know, I have 23 kids on the way. So all of them were conceived during the pandemic. I'm happy to report that the vaccine did not affect my fertility because it's actually made me more prolific. I don't have to go to work four days a week. So I'm able to travel more. I don't think I'd be able to do this trip and go away for two, three weeks to help these European women. If I, uh, had to go to work, uh, school starts, uh, uh, next week. So I'm just teaching online. So I'm able to travel well and helping the women conceive.

DEVORA

location super: SYDNEY

Syd drone? Building exterior 28:26 

Clinic signage on door: 1:01:29

CARD:

DEVORA SYD

DRONE SYD

VO: Ari says he donates for free and only asks recipients to cover his travel expenses 

“UPSOT you must be Elise”

In contrast, getting sperm from a fertility clinic can cost thousands of dollars.

Elise and Devora walking through reception area

CARD: DEVORA SYD

ELISE & DEVORA UPSOT

ELISE: wow, that's quite something. 

DEVORA: we call this the patient lounge so patients can relax here before and after procedures.

DEVORA: come on through, I'll show you the rest of the place.  

Dr Devora Lieberman says demand for sperm is increasing not just at her clinic, but globally.

Master interview

(DEVORA SYD)

Dr DEVORA LIEBERMAN IV

DEVORA: (06:27)

We've seen a huge increase over the last 10, 20 years in people wanting to access donor sperm because of the rise of gay marriage and the acceptability of queer and gay family building. More and more people are wanting to access our donor sperm. With single women now, the stigma around being a single parent is gone pretty much.

In the face of competition from the informal donor market, fertility clinics have positioned themselves as a safer alternative. 

Master Interview

DEVORA IV:

DEVORA: (15:47)

I think when you come to a clinic like ours, you have the knowledge and assuredness that it's clean, that you're not putting yourself at risk of infection

VO: And those assurances are what clients are willing to pay for.

Chat in lab

DEVORA & ELISE LAB CHAT

DEVORA: (45:07)

I will show you where the sperm is stored

Chat in lab

DEVORA & ELISE LAB CHAT

ELISE: (46:56)

Oh, right. So all are liquid nitrogen and before it gets to this point into one of these tanks, what has the process been for this sperm?

DEVORA: (47:05)

Right. So the donor will have had his infection screens done out, had semen analysis. Um, and then the sperm get washed and concentrated and the best and the brightest get put into vials and frozen in liquid nitrogen.

ELISE: (47:20)

This is the cream of the crop.

DEVORA: This is the cream of the crop

Devora says that there’s no place for super donors like Ari Nagel at clinics like hers.

Master Interview

DEVORA IV

DEVORA: (16:53)

I think it's quite terrifying to think that a single donor could be responsible for hundreds of children with no traceability, no way to know who your siblings are.

Andres to do full screen GFX using lab pics as inspiration/background

GFX 1

In Australia, there are state-based laws that govern how clinics operate. 

Some states place limits on how many families or women a donor can give sperm to. In NSW, that number is 5 women.

In some other countries, like the US, there are no legislated limits.

Shot of view out window

But even here, it’s an honesty system.

Main interview

DR DEVORA LIEBERMAN

ELISE: (18:50)

I mean, you just talked about the donors who come through here. How do you know that a donor who comes to your clinic hasn't donated privately or donated in another state or country?

DEVORA: (19:00)

Our donors will sign forms stating that they have not been donors previously. I mean, I guess they could lie on a legal document, but I don't know that it would be in their interest to do so. And I'm not sure why they would bother coming to be a donor in a clinic if they've been donating free range previously.

ELISE APP

SYDNEY

(APP SYD)

Elise in SBS office on phone, looking at donor app.

Wides and CU

GFX - posts coming up in negative space

VO: The reality is there’s nothing to stop someone donating at a clinic and privately at the same time.

There are various apps and Facebook groups that connect donors and recipients across the globe. 

APP SYD (01:53) ELISE

So this is like Tinder for people who want to find a sperm donor. And it's basically, you know, you get photos, you get a bit of a bio about the people, uh, and you swipe left or right. So I'm just going to swipe through

Elise looking at app and messages. 

VO: Apps like this one give people control - there’s no fertility clinic acting as an intermediary, no laws defining the parameters of the donor-recipient relationship. 

(13:36)

ELISE: This guy says it's hard to explain why I'm here, but I've got some friends going through IVF at the moment and they told me how hard it was to find a donor. Seems like a really nice thing to do. Nice pics.

VO:  There are also no rules on how the sperm is transferred

ELISE: (03:22)

this guy here says he's, uh, you know, only does natural insemination, uh, which means he only wants to have sex, uh, in order to have a baby.

Elise looking at Alan Phan’s profile. Then GFX.

Wide of Elise on phone, headlines from media about Alan Phan coming up in negative space

Andres to do this on Monday

GFX 2

It’s clear when using these apps, that there are guys here who aren't being upfront about their donating histories.  

Alan Phan is an Australian super donor – according to reports, he conceived

23 children in just one year.

HIS ACTIONS WERE REPORTEDLY INVESTIGATED BY THE VICTORIAN ASSISTED REPRODUCTIVE AUTHORITY .

His profile online is still active, and only mentions two children.

When I contacted Alan Phan to clarify numbers, he claimed he hadn't helped that many people and that he no longer donates to Victoria

ARI POLAND #1

WARSAW

Warsaw establishing shots (start of Poland D1C1)

VO: For some, the informal donor market is all they have. Not everyone can access sperm through a clinic.

Karolina and Aga walking, hand in hand 

(Poland D1C1 around 6:15)

KAROLINA & AGA IV (POLISH):

In Poland we don't have this option.

We have a problem because

of Polish regulations – our law.

VO: Karolina and Agnieszka have been together for nearly two years.

POLAND’S RULING CONSERVATIVE LAW AND JUSTICE PARTY -  HAS RECENTLY CRACKED DOWN ON LGBT  RIGHTS.

SAME SEX COUPLES ARE NOT LEGALLY RECOGNISED, THEY CAN’T ADOPT CHILDREN, AND THEY CAN’T ACCESS DONOR SPERM AT A FERTILITY CLINIC

KAROLINA & AGA IV (POLISH):

So the majority of couples

went through

the whole procedure abroad.

Karolina and Aga, walking. Or maybe cafe shots

VO: The couple have had some disappointing and unsettling interactions when looking for a local donor online. 

One guy had no intention of actually donating...he was just curious to meet a lesbian couple.

Interview (Poland D1C2)

There are some “listening” cutaway shots from 44:23. Not great, but maybe can punch in to obscure the mouth of the person talking?

KAROLINA & AGNIESZKA IV (POLISH)

He said he had wanted to see

a couple like us, and that was it.

- Then that was our first crisis.

- Yes, that was our crisis.

Because...

We didn't want to talk about it

for a time – about the child –

to avoid breaking down completely.

It was a little upsetting.

But then later we started again.

Transition to hostel (Poland D1C1 8:25)

Also some nice building exteriors at 8:48 onwards

Doing daughter’s hair

VO: Now the couple are putting their hopes in super donor Ari Nagel...who’s arriving in Warsaw today.

Poland D1C1 9:47ish

Doing girl’s hair

Karolina has three children from an earlier marriage/previous relationship, but this will be Agnieszka’s first time trying for a baby.

They found Ari online.

POLAND D1C1

KAROLINA & AGNIESZKA UPSOT (POLISH):

And it was like,

"Why not write to him?"

And I said "From America?

Will someone respond from there?"

So I wrote on Facebook –

you found him there –

and I wrote that

we write from Poland in Europe.

I didn't know if he knew

where Poland was.

It turned out that he has Polish roots.

His grandmother was Polish.

Looking at photos of Ari

Try to avoid kids if possible

CUs of phone/photos at: 24:30, 33:30

KAROLINA & AGNIESZKA UPSOT (POLISH):

He seems cheerful and open,

a bit crazy.

He has nice eyes.

He seems friendly, open, so I hope

this will also come through in the genes.

Driving to airport, getting out…establishing shots

Poland D1C1 49:11

Meeting Ari, hugging. (Poland D1 iPhone 28:50)

Have the meet and greet

ARI, KAROLINA AND AGNIESZKA UPSOT

ARI: Poland D1 iPhone [28:50] Ready to get that baby right now.

ARI: Good to see you.

32:20 ARI: Are you fertile today? Are you ovulating?

K: yes

Ari: She thinks she is fertile?

Ari: Ask her if she’s horny and then you know if maybe she’s fertile

K: She’s totally stressed right now….

Ari: It’s better if you don’t understand what we’re saying

ARI UPSOT IN CAR

ARI: (03:39)

Yeah. Make sure the camera gets my big boner, you know, cute girls I'm sitting next to, you know.

ARI: (04:25)

When I produce the sample later, I'm going to google hot Polish, I'm going to Google hot Polish lesbians. You know, that's what I'm going to get my inspiration, you know, unless you wanted to share some, some original footage …

KARO: yeah right

Hostel exterior - Poland D1C1

Ari making his sample for K &A

• Poland D1C2: Ari entering room, taking out softcup 0:00
• Pants dropping 0:40

VO: Back at the hostel, Ari gets straight down to business, ready to produce a sample.

In the room next door, Karolina and Agnieszka are nervously waiting.

(Poland D1C2 0:56) 

Karolina in hostel room

KAROLINA & AGNIESZKA UPSOT (POLISH):

She's hidden in the toilet.

She's very stressed, poor thing.

She's been like that since the start.

We'll see what comes of it.

VO: Ari has done this hundreds, if not thousands of times. For Agnieszka, it’s a first.

FOR THE WOMEN, THE STAKES ARE HIGH

BUT THEIR FIRST IMPRESSIONS OF ARI. . SEEM POSITIVE

Poland D1C2 2:15 Agnieszka coming back into the hostel room

Chat with K & A on the bed

Ari opening door (he’s finished putting the sperm in the softcup in other room)

KAROLINA & AGNIESZKA UPSOT (POLISH):

A: I feel all these emotions, but generally...

he's a cool guy.

- A cool guy?

- Cool.

Polish producer: What sort of emotions are they?

A: Positive ones,

and I hope that it works today.

K: Today.

A: Already?  Already?

Ari (English): What is she nervous about? It’s not like I’m sticking my dick in there…

Ari chatting to K & A in hostel room. 

ARI & KAROLINA UPSOT

6:45 Ari: Here are the keys, I just left it over there on the napkin. Don’t drink it, because I came a long way you know! I know it doesn’t look like a lot for all this long distance that I travel. But there’s a hundred million there

K: ah she’s stressed, she’s stressed

Poland D1C2 7:33 

Karolina and Aga saying goodbye to Ari, and then going into the room

 NAT SOT

Karolina and Aga walking shots, transition to interview

Poland D1C2 51:25 nice shot from behind

(maybe just need one setup shot to get us into IV?)

NAT SOT

Main interview

(Poland D1C2)

KAROLINA & AGNIESZKA IV (POLISH)

Generally I felt something...

something good, happiness really,

and I looked into Karolina's eyes,

and I thought that if this works now,

if I become pregnant,

it will be great.

I can't actually put it into words...

Happiness that at last,

at last this moment has arrived.

KAROLINA & AGA IV

D1C2 38:30:00 INTERVIEWER: Will Ari be called ‘dad’ or ‘donor’?

38:37:00 K No, at this moment –

A: I think ‘dad’, ‘dad’ – the word ‘donor’…

K He will not be an anonymous donor from an order that we made – because I know that there are people who order sperm on the internet [38:52:06] – but he will be a specific person about whom the little one will know, so he cannot be ‘donor’.

ERIN JACKSON

San Diego Timelapse (new Michael Mora footage)

Location super

Then come to Erin on beach

VO: Not everyone is as willing to be as transparent  as Karolina and Agnieszka.

In fact, there’s a long history of parents NOT telling their child that they’re donor conceived.

Location title: SAN DIEGO

(ERIN)

40:27 Erin looking out at water

22:36 Erin looking out at water with child in distance

ERIN JACKSON IV (ERIN REV)

Erin: (14:15)

I think a lot of people who are using donor sperm are really focused on getting to the baby, holding that baby

Erin: (14:25)

And it's good to remember that that baby is immediately going to start growing up and will be a completely independent person with their own thoughts and feelings

Erin walking along foreshore

Erin Jackson runs an information service for donor-conceived people. She wants people to understand what it’s like to not know your genetic history

Main IV

Erin photos on laptop? This might be a bit weird. She also emailed me the photos

(ERIN from about 31:20)

Maybe we just stay on master IV

ERIN JACKSON IV

Erin: (00:21)

In 2015, my mother told me that the man who raised me is not my biological father. This came as a huge shock to me,

I went online and ordered a 23andMe DNA test,

 And when the test results came back, I had a couple of big surprises.

Erin: (02:58)

I would guess that I probably have a hundred siblings.

(03:40)

Right. So when I was conceived and today in the United States, there are no regulations on the maximum number of people that one individual sperm or egg donor can help to make. 

 it was quite traumatic as well. Just to understand that I was separated intentionally from my truth and my siblings.

Erin laptop (ERIN - from 28:49)

Nice CU on face at 31:00

Erin is part of a global movement of donor-conceived people calling for change.

She runs an annual survey through her website, and while it’s a small group of about 500 people, there are some clear points of consensus.

Master IV

ERIN JACKSON IV 

Erin: (06:44)

(AND) I did ask people if there were to be a limit on offspring produced from one donor, what would that limit be? And the majority said a maximum of 10 offspring.

(17:10)

And that's because it would allow the donor conceived people to build meaningful relationships with the donor and with their siblings.

Erin: (05:50)

s a great question. Okay. So I think one of the most important findings is that donor conceived people do not support anonymous sperm or egg donation. And the majority think that this information about the donor's identity should be available to the donor conceived person from birth. 

QUILL & ANNE

TITLE:  SUNSHINE COAST, QLD

Establishing shots

Drone SD_ELISE_QUILL_DRONE

Flowers outside SD_ELISE_QUILL_C1: 28:28

Bedroom cutaways

Quill on bed looking at picture

SD_QUILL_C1

QUILL UPSOT

QUILL: (05:39)

this is a caricature drawing I made on a detective program when I was, I think, like five years old and it, I literally just took all the physical descriptions I got of my donor and I made this.

Quill on bed with picture, bedroom cutaways

SD_QUILL_C1

VO: Quill, who uses the pronouns they or them, is 14 years old.

Until quite recently, they had no idea what their biological father looked like.

Quill on bed with picture

SD_QUILL_C1

QUILL UPSOT

Um, yeah, I had no idea what he looked like, so this is the closest I could get. So yeah, I remember I made this kind of desperation to get to know what he looked like.

Anne and Quill in living room

Cutaway of cat etc

SD_QUILL_C1

VO: Quill pieced the face together using a donor profile with a list of facial features, that was provided to their mum, Anne.

(14:30)

A: what do we got? What are the eyebrows like? Like he's got thick eyebrows. Yep. That's come through,

Anne is a single mother by choice. Quill was conceived using donor sperm and a donor egg at a clinic in the US.

Anne and Quill on couch, looking at documents

SD_QUILL_C1

ANNE & QUILL UPSOTS

Pointy chin, no cleft. You don't have a cleft either, do you. Q: What’s that? A:It's like, if you have a, like a sort of Q: like butt chin.

Quill looking at self in mirror

SD_QUILL_C1 (from 9:50 – lots of shots to choose from. I like the side profile shot 10:58)

VO: The clinic told Anne she could have contact with the egg donor, but there were strict rules around contacting the sperm donor.

ANNE: (05:02)

 they only offered two choices. Anonymous, forever, never know who they are or open, which their rules were that was a commitment on behalf of the donor that they would have at least one contact with the donor conceived person at the age of 18 or over and that had to be through the cryobank

In the formal fertility industry in Australia, it’s also standard practice to only provide identifying details about a sperm donor when a child turns 18.

That’s a long time to go without answers

Main interview

SD_ELISE_QUILL IV

QUILL IV

(17:48)

like it's a human right. It's a big part of people to be able to get to know their genetic family.

(17:55)

And I think to deny them that because of their age is just shocking.

Quill child photos (maybe the one at 26:06?)

Anne main IV

SD_ELISE_ANNE IV

ANNE IV

ANNE: (12:45)

Quill wanted to know who these people were and wanted to have some contact and be able to speak to them and maybe go to America and have a visit and things like that. And had questions that I couldn't answer.

SD_ELISE_QUILL IV

QUILL IV

I think it's really important to get to know your cultures and your ancestors and your family story.

Quill on bed reading letter

Quill on bed reading letter

QUILL UPSOT

QUILL_C1 (04:29) QUILL:

I'm Quill. I'm 10 years old. I live in Queensland and it's an extremely large chance you're my sperm donor

VO: Four years ago, Anne and Quill found their sperm donor using a DNA test.

Quill then sent him a letter.

QUILL: I would love to get to know you, so please contact me again on this email or this Facebook.

If you don't want to contact me right now, I completely understand, however please let me know. Thanks.

The donor’s reply was positive.

SD_ELISE_QUILL IV

QUILL IV

QUILL: (10:57)

I was bouncing off the walls.

(11:17)

And I think a painting that he did and I was, I was so excited to know that, well, it was really excited to see his letter and kind of see what kind of person he is through that. And I was so, so thankful that my hopes had turned out to be true and that he really was a good person hoping to have contact with me.

Leaving home

SD_QUILL_C1 28:46

Or...maybe jump straight to beach?

Walking down at beach

SD_QUILL_C1 30:43

Anne and Quill standing together so you can see their faces

SD_QUILL_C1

Quill spinning around, Anne taking photos 33:52, 34:02 CU

QUILL IV

(25:06)

I know that most of my personality comes from my mum and she raised me. So, you know, um, and I'm pretty similar to her. I definitely, I'm really glad that I'm so similar to my mum, but I think I've also got stuff from my egg donor and my sperm donor.

Quill spinning, dancing sand

Anne and Quill sitting together – use for end grabs

Sitting together (from 35:18

Taking photo together (37:00 onwards)

Hand on shoulder 37:33

QUILL: (04:46)

I definitely see that I have three branches of my family tree. I have the main one for my mom and then the two other ones, my sperm and egg donors.

 And yeah, I think there's definitely room in my family tree for three branches.

AD BREAK

ARI POLAND #2

WARSAW

Establishing shots D2C2

Ari at cafe on phone

POLAND D2C2

ARI UPSOTS

ARI: (42:33)

Hi. How you doing? Oh, oh, good. Good. How are you doing? Look at, look at beautiful. Uh, look at Warsaw. It's beautiful, 

VO: Back

In Poland, DIY SUPER sperm donor, Ari Nagel is planning his next few deliveries

Ari at cafe, on phone to potential French recipient

POLAND D2C2

ARI UPSOTS

ARI: (43:04)

Tomorrow, I'm going to Krakow and I'll be freezing sperm there on Wednesday for a woman from France. And then I'm going to Prague and I'll be freezing sperm for women from Germany there on Friday and on Monday. And then I might go to Tbilisi or I could go to Spain or I could go wherever else you need.

WOMAN You speak very...

ARI: Fast?

WOMAN: Very fast, yes.

ARI: I speak fast. And I also ejaculate very fast. I'm a professional. But it's better if you don't understand what I'm saying. 

VO: Ari dedicates a lot of time and effort into donating sperm all over the world and even though some recipients cover his expenses, he admits he can be left out of pocket.

Master interview

Cover last grab with olay of Ari in Poland square - 50fps. Looking at pics of his kids?

ARI NAGEL IV

ELISE: (24:08)

Is it an addiction? Is it a kind of compulsion to keep doing this?

ARI: (24:13)

 no, it's not.

(24:31)

Listen, if I gave too much charity, is that an addiction? But it feels good knowing I'm able to help people.

VO: Ari doesn’t think he needs to cap his donating in line with laws in countries like Australia, where donors can only give to a limited number of families.

ARI: (45:41)
I'm sure a lot of kids will be resenting, and I'm sure there's going to be kids that are going to appreciate it…..

46:00To me all the merrier that’s just always been my policy.

ARI NAGEL IV

ELISE: (14:15)

Do you think there could be some parents who just never tell the child that they're donor conceived or that your sperm was used to conceive them?

Ari: (14:24)

Definitely. I think that's often the case for heterosexual couples. They're not sharing and not truthful with the child. 

Ari: (10:21)

But ...I leave the door open, so if the women don't want me to play a role now, but in the future, they change their mind, then that's definitely an option that I'm open to.

ELISE: What would you say if a child comes to you in 15, 20 years and says they didn’t know, they hadn’t been told about you. And that it’s caused them immense pain?

Ari: (20:58)

Listen, I have 95 children. I'm sure many will be upset, and many of them will be appreciative. I think I'm going to get everything under the sun

(22:10)

I'm not quite sure. I don't really have the answers, to be honest, what the future is going to hold. I am making it up as I get along, and I'm sure that'll happen.

ELISE: (25:05)

You know I've been kind of thinking about what motivated you to do this ...whether it's a numbers game, you just kind of push the numbers up

Ari: (25:32)

Numbers game?... These women want their first child, so I should say, "Well, I don't really want to have any more children because it's not going to look right. People are going to think I have too many and might think I'm narcissistic," but then the women, they don't care. They just want their one child, 

ERIN JACKSON

Erin: (16:18)

I think people who knowingly want to create a hundred children should be disqualified from doing so on that basis. Because, that kind of impulse to me just really tells me that there's a mental health issue at play.

Erin: (17:34)

In the case of someone who's creating a hundred children they're clearly doing it for their own self-interest, maybe it's a big ego trip for him. I mean, if he was listening to the voices of donor-conceived people, he would've stopped a very long time ago.

VO: Advocates, like Erin Jackson say, it’s not  about who Ari Nagel is to the women he donates to, it’s about who he is to the children he’s helping create.

ERIN JACKSON IV

(12:22)

What this all comes down to is one person's sperm donor is another person's biological parent

ENDING

////TRANSITION TO ENDING////

GVs of kids here – need those sweet cute kid shots that we don’t have. Any on file?

VO: We’ve reached a point where nearly anyone and everyone can create a human life. 

Relationship status, sexual preference, financial means are no longer barriers.

But while conceiving a child is a moment in time, the legacy is forever. 

Beauty shots

QUILL LEISHMAN IV

QUILL: (27:46)

I definitely think that, if you're going to conceive a child through donor conception, that you need to be prepared for the crazy journey that they have to gonna have to go on, you're going to have to be prepared to, to get in contact with the donors, to explain to your child what, why the family's different.

QUILL: (29:29)

And yeah, I think it's just important for anyone using donor conception to be fully aware of what that means. Family-wise and that the child, even though it might just be a single, a single donation to you, it's definitely, it could be a big thing to the child.

//END//

NEXT WEEK ON DATELINE

WE LOOK AT LGBT RIGHTS IN CHINA AND MEET COUPLES NAVIGATING THE COMPLICATED WORLD  OF SURROGACY

AND UP NEXT...THE FEED