Fight or Flight: Ukrainian Men’s Dilemma

Radio Télévision Suisse | 25min
Postproduction script

00:00:08,763 Lena: -It was 05:00am, maybe 05:30am. I packed some stuff very quickly. Some things I thought I would need later. Then I woke up the kids, we got dressed and left the apartment.

0’16 Lena Vakulenku

00:00:42,722 Oleg: -When the train left, we were told to turn off our phones, and not to turn the lights on. It was like a ghost train. There was a risk that the train would be attacked and nobody knew whether it would reach its destination.

0’52 Oleg Valko

00:01:06,120 Natacha: -At some point, we realised that we were blocked in the city, and that all the supplies and food we had would last maybe two weeks, and no shops were open. Sometimes, like twice, they brought us bread but they can’t do that regularly because it’s dangerous. And at that point, we realised that we needed to leave, and they didn’t allow men to be evacuated. And we needed to leave to allow him to have supplies for a longer time. In the evening when I realised that the next morning we will go, honestly I felt like I was betraying my husband because he’s staying there alone.

00:02:04,503 VO: -When escape is the only way out to protect oneself, that's what millions of Ukrainians have experienced since the beginning of the war led by Russia. Leaving one's country, one's friends one's family, is always a difficult, heartbreaking choice. All men, with the exception of fathers of large families were ordered not to leave Ukrainian territory. Three friends from the Jura who were shocked by these images decided in the first days of the war to make a trip to Poland.  They brought 6 tons of material on their way up. On the way back, their plan was to bring back Ukrainian refugees to Ajoie, Switzerland.

2’35 Title – Fight or Flight: Ukrainian Men’s Dilemma

2’41 A report by Maria Pia Mascaro & Maria Nicollier

00:03:01,828 Sandra: -I saw the extent of these destroyed cities, of the distress. I was caught up in the emotion. There were moments when I cried, when I was angry I was thinking: "There's no way that in 2022, we can still see things like this."

3’07 Sandra Vallat-Zwahlen, Ukrine-Ajoie Association

00:03:22,799 Teresa: -Anyway, thank you very much for all this information. We're adapting accordingly.

00:03:30,348 VO: -After 48 hours, they eventually reached their destination, in the east of Poland, 15 km from the Ukrainian border. They were welcomed in a Polish medical unit converted into a refugee centre. Ruslan, his wife and their three children were among the first ones to get onboard.

00:03:54,918 Ruslan: -When we heard that that Belarus could join the war against Ukraine, we left to Poland, because this country is part of NATO. For us, it was a certain guarantee that our children wouldn't face the war directly. When we decided to take this bus to Switzerland, 3 million people had already left Ukraine, most of them to Poland. Although the Poles said that we could stay as long as necessary, they also said that it would be difficult to find a job, because of the very large number of Ukraine refugees.

4’07 Ruslan Pozniak

00:04:48,440 Isabelle: -Listen Mom They're boarding now. They're getting inside the bus. You can't say they're smiling, but I think that it's important to them. I think there's another a young man coming.

00:05:08,416 VO: -This young man is Oleg. He is also travelling with his family. He is still in shock after their hasty escape from Ukraine.

00:05:17,976 Oleg: -We could no longer think about anything. It all seemed like endless day, a nightmare. We didn't know where we were, who we were and where we were being taken. Our thoughts were obsessed with our land and with the war and we didn't really realize what was going on.

5’23 Oleg Valko

00:05:43,964 Isabelle on coach: -Twelve, thirteen fourteen, fifteen

5’46 Isabelle Fleury, Ukrine-Ajoie Association

00:05:49,044 Isabelle: -Even to this day, it still moves me to see that they might not ever come back to their country. The story of their lives would take a different turn at that moment.

00:06:01,777 Teresa: -I thought, "These people don't know who I am, who we are." There is a bus from Switzerland, but what confidence or what distress was driving them to get on that bus?

6’04 Teresa Crevoiserat, Ukrine-Ajoie Association

00:06:17,574 VO: -43 people got on the bus. The majority were women and children. Like all the refugees who have flooded in on Europe since February 24. In their midst, there were only three adult men. Their unease was palpable: they avoided the camera and did not wish to speak to us during the trip. The women, on the other hand, have almost all left a man back home.

00:06:54,387 Alyona: -I have a son in Ukraine. He is 23 years old. He moved to the Polish border at Kamenets-Podolski. He's there for the moment. Since he's been at the border, he keeps telling me: "Mom, I'm not going to put up with this any longer, I'm going to join the civil defense units, I can't see Kyiv being destroyed without doing anything." And I keep answering him: "Please don't go there."

7’04 Alyona Mazur

00:07:26,020 Natacha: My husband is there and he is in our apartment without gas or electricity, nothing. And I think he has supplies left for only three weeks. The worst thing was that after I left, I had no connection for three days and today he called me for the first time. Thank God he is alive, and that is all I can pray for right now.

7’33 Natacha Tkachenko

00:08:00,590 VO: -The men had no other choice but to let their wives, their mother or children leave alone, because they weren't allowed to leave Ukraine. Their president has decreed a general mobilization for the military and reservists. Later on, men between 18 to 60 years of age were banned to leave the country except those with families of three or more children.

00:08:27,840 Oleg: -Men are not allowed to leave to leave the country, but we have a large family certificate.

8’34 Oleg Valko

00:08:38,154 Ruslan: -Fathers of three minor children have the right to leave Ukraine. With our three small kids, we couldn't always take refuge all the time in the shelter.

8’53 Ruslan Pozniak

00:09:01,517 VO: -After more than 25 hours on the road, the refugees arrived in Alle, a village near Porrentruy.

00:09:08,760 Isabelle: -Welcome!

00:09:15,281 VO: -For these refugees, the mere thought of being at least safe and far from the fighting is a relief.

00:09:24,442 Lena: -We saw people warmly welcome us. They really wanted to help us. It was very touching. It came from the heart and we felt it.

9’36 Lena Vakulenku

00:09:53,151 Teresa: -What saddened me the most was to see all these women with children. They didn't know where they were going, their husbands have stayed in Ukraine. All these family separations, all these women who swallowed their sadness so as not to make their kids sad, to keep morale up and all that. And all these people moving around, it's unbelievable, it's unimaginable.

10’15 Teresa Crevoiserat, Ukrine-Ajoie Association

00:10:33,343 VO: -In fact, you can feel how worried they are. Projecting into the future is difficult, if not impossible. This is the case for Micha, who abandoned his house and his business in Kyiv. He has only two children, but he has left Ukraine one day before the exit ban. Since then, he has only one obsession: going home. He didn't want to talk to us, but his wife, Lena, agreed to do so.

00:11:01,160 Lena: When we left, there was no law about general military, and we could leave with my husband. But he wants to go back to Ukraine, because he wants to help Ukraine. He wants to be there.

11’07 Lena Vakulenku

00:11:32,120 Interviewer: What about your children?

00:11:33,210 Lena: They want to go home too. But it’s good that there are other children here and they play together. They don’t think about the war, they are safe here.

00:12:03,004 VO: -Since his departure, Oleg, has been focussed on one thing only: news from the warfront in Ukraine.

00:12:10,340 Oleg: -For us, it's an endless day. We don't distinguish yesterday from today or tomorrow anymore. And it's been two weeks since the war started. I want the war to end as soon as possible. We must win. The Russian empire must fall. The whole world will be better off, not only Ukraine.

12’15 Oleg Valko

00:13:17,917 VO: -A few days after their arrival, each one finds one's footing little by little. Oleg and his family are staying in Porrentruy. The bags under the eyes have almost disappeared, but the doubts remain. Did he make the right choice regarding this war? By choosing to leave because he still could, while others were forbidden to do so?

00:13:44,085 Oleg: -My conscience is nagging me every day because I left my country. Every day, I think I should go back, but my family keeps me here. I think that men have to fight, protect and repel the enemy. Who can do this but men? I'd really rather not to be sitting here, feeling guilty. And I'd like to get a job, earn money and send it to the Ukrainian army. But now that's the way it is, and I don't really feel like I belong here.

14’10 Oleg Valko

00:14:33,565 VO: -In Kyiv, Oleg used to teach in a circus school. He also made a career as an acrobat, juggler and tightrope walker. And as if his wish had been heard, Oleg was called shortly afterwards by the StarLight circus to replace at short notice a sick performer.

00:15:05,030 Circus performer: Say ‘mesdames et messieurs’, then here ‘ladies and gentlemen’, then here ‘meine Damen und Herren’.

00:15:11,891 VO: -It's only a job for a few days, but it will make him smile again.

00:15:24,728 Oleg: -It was like breathing a breath of fresh air. The fresh air of freedom. Getting my job back, getting my soul back, it made me feel better. For a moment, I stopped brooding. I felt useful again.

00:16:04,262 VO: -Lena and her family were housed in Porrentruy, but no sooner had they arrived, that Lena had to face what she had been dreading all along. Her husband left for Ukraine a few days later.

00:16:21,913 Lena: -He brought us to a safe place so that he could return, knowing we were safe here, where he felt he should be. All along the journey, my husband kept saying that he wanted to go back. In fact, he did not want to leave Ukrainian territory. He thought that if things got worse, he would be more useful in Ukraine than here.

16’38 Lena Vakulenku

00:17:02,687 VO: -Her husband left while their city, in the northern suburbs of Kyiv, was still occupied by Russian troops. Despite the danger he was in, Lena resigned herself. She is now waiting when she can at last join him back.

00:17:18,356 Lena: -This is a two-sided coin. On the one hand, he is a man and I understand him. On the other hand, I am the mother of his children and his wife. I didn't want to let him go. I wanted us to stay together, but I respect his decision and I accept it. The children are bored. We are worried about him, even the little one who is four years old. I am surprised that at this age he is able to understand the situation. He worries and, every night he allows himself to cry a little, because he understands how dangerous it is.

00:18:10,042 VO: -Ruslan and his family found a home in Bonfol, in the Jura. In spite of his determination to find a job to provide for his family, this engineer won't let go of the deep-rooted conscience, the idea that in times of war, men must ensure the defense of the territory while women have to protect children.

00:18:34,311 Ruslan: -Personally, I didn't want to leave. I have my house over there. My country house, my car. We had our life there. Here we have no one, so leaving everything, going away is tough. I think that Ukraine will win this war and protecting Ukraine is the only thing to do.

18’42 Ruslan Pozniak

00:19:17,120 VO: -Despite this idea deeply rooted in his mind, he took to the road. The decision was made by the couple, his wife did not want to separate the family.

00:19:27,287 Ruslan: -My feelings are mixed. In principle, I wanted to stay there, but my wife told me that the children were more important.

00:19:40,926 Interviewer: -Did you have an argument with your wife about leaving your country?

00:19:49,452 Ruslan: -The best thing would be to ask her. We didn't argue, but we have different opinions.

00:20:06,758 Interviewer: -Do you feel guilty about not staying in Ukraine?

00:20:12,800 Ruslan: -Sometimes, yes, I have that feeling.

00:20:16,892 VO: -In Ukraine, Ruslan and his family used to live in the northern part of Kyiv. Just like Natacha, an English teacher, whom he met during the trip.

00:20:33,000 Natacha: That’s his house. That’s his building basically.

-Ruslan: My windows.

-Interviewer: Do you know if it’s still up?

-Ruslan: I don’t know. Not sure.

-Natacha: And this is my building, these two windows are my kitchen and my study. And here is a really nice park.

00:21:09,665 VO: -Natacha is worried, because she lives in Boutcha, the now infamous martyred city.

00:21:55,521 VO: -Thanks to her English, Natacha now works as an interpreter and a school assistant for the group of refugees who arrived in Alle. This allows her, just for a few hours, not to obsess about the fate of her country and her husband. But she doesn't understand the law keeping men from leaving Ukraine.

00:22:15:240 Natacha: I do not agree with that law to be honest. And it’s not only because of my husband; when we had the first or second day of war, all the departments organised civilians into some units who were watching the streets and stuff like that. There were so many volunteers to help that after the first three days they didn’t accept more people. I think if they are of no use there and aren’t in the military, it isn’t fair to make families suffer, to make children live without parents. I understand both positions here, some people say that they are men and need to protect the country, but they are not allowed to protect the country so it’s a very strange situation. But maybe that’s the kind of law they always have during the war I’m not sure.

22’29 Natacha Tkachenko

00:23:17,905 VO: -She calls her husband in Kiev every day. A few days ago, he was finally allowed to go back to Boutcha, but without being able to settle there, as there is still no water nor electricity. He gave her good news, like a miracle: their apartment has remained intact.

00:23:38,967 Natacha: -Hello, How are you?

00:23:44,960 Husband: -I know how to clean a car in half a day

00:23:48,801 Natacha: -Good job!

00:23:50,089 Husband: -You have to start with the roof.

00:23:51,766 Natacha: -So you have a job when the war is over.

00:23:56,376 Husband: -I can clean cars.

00:24:01,048 Natacha: -What's up? Is the subway working? What's on the media?

00:24:07,498 Husband: -It's working from the Shulavka station.

00:24:09,160 Natacha interview: Basically it was small talk, about everyday stuff.

Interviewer: You need that?

Natacha: Oh yeah, I do. It’s very helpful that he can answer the phone, because for the three days when he didn’t, to be afraid of the worst is horrible. It’s so cool you can call any moment and he can answer. I feel much more relaxed and happy, it’s nice to be able to talk to him.

00:24:47,705 Natacha in French class: -I'm going to Porrentruy.

00:24:51,743 VO: -In the Jura, the refugees are doing their best, but even if they learn how to speak French, their heart is still in Ukraine. They hope they can come back there as soon as possible as one million out of the five million Ukrainians refugees who have left the country since the beginning of the war have done.

25’20 Credits:

Maria Nicollier

Maria Pia Mascaro

Rebecca Sauvin