VIDEO

AUDIO 

Beach

V/O: In South Africa, marrying outside your race was illegal under the apartheid regime.

My own history is tangled up in it.

Before I was born my parents fled to Australia in the hope of a better life.

And although I’ve never lived here, I feel as though it’s part of who I am, my identity and my story.

SUPER: Janice Petersen, reporter

JANICE: My first visit here was when I was about seven, and one of my biggest memories was wanting to go to the beach with my cousins and we drove around on a stinking hot day and we couldn't go to these beaches. They were whites only. And that was a really deep, deeply hurtful thing that I experienced back then.

Beach

It was a small insight into the lengths the state went to to keep people apart.

So, I’ve come back to South Africa to find out if love can finally overcome apartheid’s legacy.

PROGRAM TITLS:

LOVE AND RACE IN SOUTH AFRICA

Janice Petersen, Gemma Wilson, Colin Cosier, Joel Stillone

Street pics

Today South Africa calls itself the Rainbow Nation.

A term used by the country’s first black president, Nelson Mandela, who led the country out of the darkness of apartheid

File

MANDELA: I cherish the idea of a new South Africa where all South Africans are equal.

LOCATION TITLE:

DURBAN

Pam & Seb’s house 

While the country has changed, racial divisions are unfortunately still here.

And while it’s not illegal to marry outside your race anymore, mixed-race couples still face difficulties

Pam & Seb’s house 

UPSOT SEB: go to the park? Will you be a good girl today?

Pam & Seb’s house 

Pam and Seb are happily married with two young children, Jordan and little Luca.

They represent the vision Nelson Mandela, was fighting for.

But as a mixed-race couple their union is rare.

Pam & Seb IV 

JANICE - I want to know about when you first met. Was it love at first sight?

PAM: No. / Yeah, we were always in the same circles, but never like best friends

PAM - And then he made some silly joke. And then from there, we, like spoke every day, every day.

SEB: And then three months later, I asked her out officially. Six months later, I asked her to marry me.

Janice: The six months!

SEB - Six months later I asked her to marry me. Six months later we got married. Six months late, we got pregnant.

Pam & Seb’s house 

Pam is Black South African… Sebastian is Indian South African.

Both of their families were discriminated against during the apartheid years… where people were separated into racial groups.

It imposed on them the idea that some races were better than others.

Pam & Seb IV

JANICE - How did your family react when you got together?

SEB - Oh, that is a mess. // My families are not welcoming to Pam also because of the fact that not also but because of the fact that she was black, obviously didn't tell I was dating an African woman, I told them I was dating Pam. // and being an Indian coming in and family. People expecting me to waltz in a pam that is Indian. And then the first day that I arrived in, I showed Pam among us like, she's black // So that caused a bit of a rift because my mom was not accepting of African women.

JANICE - How does that feel, Pam, to listen to this, your initial reception from his family?

PAM - I mean, I wasn't surprised that they would have been like, oh, she's not Indian.

PAM - I tried my best to not let it affect me, because if I did that, it would just drive me insane. And also, I was confident in my relationship with him because he never made me feel like it's just me against his entire family. The fact that he put his foot down and defended me despite what they said and still chose me. Made me feel like I had the biggest wings. Like nobody could tell me anything because I know my husband loves me, despite what you may think I am. You may think I have got dirty blood, but as long as my husband cherishes me, those words didn't affect me the way it could have

Pinky’s house

PINKY: kiss for granny?

Pinky’s house

Seb’s mum struggled to accept her son’s love for Pam. He’s the only one in their family to date outside his race.

Pinky’s house

PAM: Give granny a hug, Jordan.

JANICE: So, can you remember when Sebastian and Pam got together?

PINKY: Yeah. It's about 3-4 years?

SEB: five

PINKY: five!

Pinky’s house

SEB: Why were you against me being in, in a, in a, in a relationship or

PINKY: due to family, I told you

SEB: so you were more worried about the family,

PINKY: More worried about family. You know, the thing is with the Indians, I would be honest, they pick on the nations like, uh, oh, you African you're white. And you know, it goes on like that. And I got a family were always up to now, my uncle will picks on him being married to an African girl.

JANICE: What sort of things would he say?

PINKY: Dirty words like, uh, oh, should, should an African. Now, can you get married to an African? And you know, let me put it this way. They say that the Africans are one leg in the Bush and one leg in the home. They insult like that.

Pinky’s home

JANICE: What does it feel like when that happens?

PAM: Obviously you don't want anybody to say bad things about you, but the things that they would say are things that I can't change. /// but what they would say, oh, I'm an African girl. Well, yes, I live in Africa and there's nothing I can do about that. /// So I just carried on

Pinky’s home

SEB: If I had to tell you today, it's me or them, what would you do?

PINKY: I choose my son because is my son because my son is more important

SEB: Wholeheartedly or are you saying that? Just because I'm here?

PINKY: Because I wouldn't want to lose my child because of my family. No ways

SEB: I think I've made this very clear to my wife and to my mother. Um, I enjoy my marriage. I enjoy my journey and where I'm going. One thing I told my mother as well, I will never choose her over my wife.

Pinky’s home

JANICE: You did say that you wanted to have an honest conversation with her. Do you think that's happened this morning?

SEB: Yeah, I think to some degree, I think it has been very, very honest, some

PINKY: Level I feel, I know my son really feels now.

File vision

For nearly 50 years, South Africa’s apartheid system placed people in a hierarchy based on their skin colour.

Whites were at the top, Indians and so-called “Coloureds” were in the middle, and Black South Africans at the bottom.  

Basic human rights were denied to those who weren’t white and sex and marriage across racial lines was illegal.

The end of apartheid in the early 90s bought with it a more hopeful and progressive South Africa…

File vision

MANDELA: the march towards freedom and justice is irreversible

Pam and Seb walk in street

But I get constantly reminded that although mixed-race dating is now legal in 2022, the architecture of apartheid is yet to completely crumble.

Pam and Seb walk in street

PAM: So we do get a lot of stares /// for me. Like, I'll get like like stares, like, in my eyes. And then they look at him, and then they look at me and like, it's like, what am I seeing? Especially if they are displays of affection, like how he's holding my hand.

Pam & Seb IV

PAM - People find that when you date a white person that, oh, wow, we've reached the cloud. Yeah, it's like, oh, wow. It's like an. Achievement. Well done. /// But if that same white person was dating a black person, then they'd be like. I didn’t expect you to date a black girl or a black boy. So, yeah, unfortunately, the black people are always seen as inferior.

SEB - It's pretty much like the caste system that we have in India communities. /// Even though people will not say it as freely democratic country as we are, still people still put people in hierarchies.

PAM - For people that were in apartheid, like it would be very hard mentally to just click out of that mindset because it's mind control. Oh. Black people are inferior, white people are superior.

Monica at Pam & Seb’s house

That noxious idea that some races were better than others still lingers in this country

Pam says her family, unlike her husband’s, never had reservations about the relationship but I’m keen to see if this was true.

Monica at Pam & Seb’s house

JANICE: Monica cast your mind back, what was your gut reaction when you found out that Sebastian was Indian, how did you really feel?

MONICA: I didn't like Indians before, so I felt, wow. Why an Indian? Why? Just, why an Indian? See why now? What you mean Indian? At first I told maybe she was mistaken. It must be a coloured man. Why an Indian of all people? You know, because I didn't like Indians growing up.

JANICE: Tell me why

MONICA: They always think they are wiser than everyone else. That's how they are. That's how, that's how I experienced, you know, Indians to be at the workplace

Monica at Pam & Seb’s house

JANICE: How did you feel about that? Your mom was openly saying that she had a bit of an issue with you going out with an Indian.

PAM: Um, I actually didn't know that. I didn't know that she had an an issue with Indians, like from the workplace. /// I never thought that she actually had a problem with Indian people to be specific.

MONICA: That's very true.

Monica at Pam & Seb’s house

MONICA: But then shame, when you came home, wow. He was totally different. He was such a good boy as he is still is now, he was a total different Indian that I've never seen.

JANICE: What made him different?

MONICA: I suppose his character his personality. He's just awesome. Otherwise…

Monica at Pam & Seb’s house

JANICE: So Monica has meeting Sebastian changed your mind about Indians in general?

MONICA: Yes. It has a lot. /// and I'm thankful to God for that because we are surrounded, we live with Indians, we work with Indians. So, there is no way you won't bump into an Indian.  

File vision

DATE STRAP: July 2021

Last year, relations between the Indian and Black African communities turned deadly, when a wave of violence pitted neighbour against neighbour in riots that were the worst the country has seen since the end of apartheid.

It was sparked by the imprisonment of former President Jacob Zuma for contempt of court... then quickly morphed into lawlessness, looting, and rioting by the marginalised and disenfranchised

Over 300 people died

Here in Phoenix, the turmoil sparked racial profiling and vigilantism

The police minister said of the dozens killed here, most were black.

and most of the suspected killers were Indian

Glen’s HQ

Glen Naidoo is the founder of a private security company in Phoenix

Glen’s HQ

GLEN: Sorry. I told these guys something and they didn't listen to me. Geez.

ROMANO: Do you want them all in line?

GLEN: Yeah. Make fast.

JANICE: Unhappy that his staff aren't listening and lining up the SWAT vehicles in a straight line. He's just getting, getting them in order

Glen’s HQ

SUPER: Glen Naidoo, KZN VIP Protection Services

JANICE: Where do you get your hands on, on a tank like that?

GLEN: These are ex police vehicles, riot unit vehicles // yeah, so we bought them in. We keep them for our high-risk operations.

Glen’s HQ

When the looting and riots escalated, Glen says the police were stretched and his own security company overwhelmed, so he took to social media to publicly call on Phoenix residents to set up roadblocks.

STRAP: July 2021

GLEN: We need to now form what is called a civil defence force.

This is him under the balaclava:

GLEN: Residents are being robbed, assaulted, et cetera. You must do whatever you think is right. You must do everything in your power now to assist and help the community. If you don't help yourselves, if you die, then that is your problem

Glen’s HQ

GLEN: Because we're predominantly Indian, people think that they can just step over us. They did this in the 1949 riots // then in the 1985 riots, we were victims again

Glen’s HQ

GLEN: So, it was about survival. Had we not barricaded Phoenix? Thousands of people would've died in Phoenix. Just not that 35 that they talk about. I am telling you there would've been thousands of them died or would've died. So, I think I prevented until the massacre on a larger scale and not only a massacre, I think I just stopped the war.

Glen driving

But not everyone sees it that way.

South African authorities say that these roadblocks enabled vigilantes to target Black residents.

Glen driving

GLEN: This street here, there were barricades /// this is where people were arrested because found dead bodies done the drain there.

JANICE: Goodness.

GLEN: here bodies hacked were shot

JANICE: You've just said we've driven past an area where there were bodies that were shot and hacked. Yeah. And this look at this place, it's a suburban area. How does it make you feel?

GLEN: Well, you know, this place is, so it just proves to you that you are not safe anywhere // we are sitting in a so-called with a ticking time bomb. // We've been living peacefully on along, and then suddenly within a few days, you've got more than 30 people dead.

Glen on street

At a public enquiry into the killings, Glen said he only called on Phoenix residents to barricade the suburb…not kill people

Glen on street

JANICE: Some people say that you were part of this, that you were armed and that you've got blood on your hands.

GLEN: Yeah, I was armed. Yes. I carry a firearm. Yes, okay, several firearms, that is correct. About me having blood on my hands: no. Uh, the police, uh, had arrested me, uh, the confiscated, all our guns that we had. And everything's come back from ballistics to say that we've never been involved in any killing shooting or injuring of anyone.

JANICE: But in the unfolding of all dozens of people died. Was the outcome acceptable?

GLEN: No, I think the outcome was, is never acceptable in my opinion. Uh, yeah. Uh, the people are not really proud that they had to protect themselves. That was the job of the police and the military. The people were forced into, uh, protecting themselves and yes, there have been a lot of, uh, I can't call it mistakes. A lot of incidents that have taken place where people have been killed, uh, it's blood on our hands, but those people must be brought to justice. If they're not, then this wound is gonna stay open for a long, long time.

Thokozani’s home

That wound is still very much open for Thokozani Mhlongo, who lives just a few blocks away.

When I visit, I lose count of the amount of relatives in her home. The youngest… her grandson who is just a few months old.

Her son, 18-year-old Sanele, was killed in the riots

Thokozani IV

THOKOZANI - Sanele was a very young, responsible man. Like we used to call him a breadwinner in the house // Let's say he comes back from school and I'm not at home. And he sees there's no bread in the bread tin. He take his own money, go buy bread /// he’s that kind of a child.

Thokozani IV

JANICE - What do you know about Sanele’s death?

THOKOZANI - Actually, I don't have much because what I know is what people are telling me because I was there. /// That just he went to the petrol station with his friend. Then they were stopped by the Gang of Indians who started firing into the car. Then when the car stopped, then they all jump off to run away. But sadly, they didn't make it. He was shot dead in the same place in the scene. That's all I know. And I. It took me four days to find him because his friend couldn't come and tell me that finally they left him lying on the floor that day was going to take me. So that is the only thing I have. Nothing.

File

Thokozani doesn’t know where her son was going, just that he was out when the city was convulsing with violence…

Thokozani IV

JANICE: So, you were told that an Indian person shot your son. How do you feel about the Indian community now?

THOKOZANI - You know, I feel so bad. /// even seeing an Indian person, for me, the tears will just fall in my face. /// Because I just couldn't stand the sight of them. But at least now I'm healing. Slowly, slowly

Thokozani IV

JANICE: But do you blame someone for his death?

THOKOZANI: No.

JANICE: Why do you think you don't have bitterness in your heart to blame someone? Your son was shot dead.

THOKOZANI: Because I have to. I have no one to blame except racism, because it's clear for everyone this whatever happened in July 12, it was racism. So, he was born in here in Phoenix. He grew up in Phoenix. He had Indian friends. /// So, his whole life was in Phoenix. But that day he died because of his skin colour.

South Africa pictures

South Africa, the so-called Rainbow Nation, has a dark history.

Under Apartheid people were systemically separated by the colour of their skin.

Today, Apartheid is over, but for mixed-race couples, even love is haunted by the ghosts of the past.

Sarah & Ndaba’s house

Fighting this history is a couple who use their love and faith to bridge racial divides

Sarah & Ndaba IV

JANICE: Take me back to when you first met. Was it love at first sight?

NDABA: Yeah... For her it was I think.

JANICE: And so, Sarah, how did your family react to each other? 

SARAH: They were over the moon. They didn't have any doubts. I think some of that is probably in the fact that they they know how they raised me and they had trust. They trusted my choices. But they were they were really happy. 

JANICE: And Ndaba, how did your family react when you told them you were going out with Sarah? 

Ndaba: Very excited. Very excited.

Braai

After everything I’ve seen and heard on this trip, this is refreshing to hear.

Sarah and Ndaba are youth leaders at their church.

Every month they organise a group dinner at their house. Tonight, I’m joining them for a braai, the South African version of an Aussie BBQ.

Braai

NDABA: We ask that you please bless his food and may bring health announcement, our bodies. And please bless the hands that have prepared it in the name of Jesus. We pray everybody say

EVERYONE: Amen.

Braai

The aim of these meals is to bring people together from different backgrounds who might not normally hang out.

Braai

JANICE: This is a very diverse bunch of people, which is beautiful. Do you think you all would've got together? If it wasn't for these two?

FEMALE, BLACK JACKET: For me, I'd say no… Ndaba and Sarah, they invited me over and then that's how I started coming

STEVE: from my side, I think it's just a matter of intention // for like Sarah and Ndaba in specifically, they've been extremely intentional about saying, hey guys, come, we want you all there

Braai

JANICE: I'm guessing by the look of you, you're all, you know, lovely and young and I'm guessing that no, one's had a lived experience under the apartheid system. Right? So, what's the legacy of that. Can you still feel some of those racial divisions in South Africa today

STEVE: I would say definitely, like 100%.

NDABA: I think it's, it's still there. Um, unfortunately // the racism has now a new cousin called classism as well. /// So, some people say that the whole, a apartheid system really never actually went away. It just flipped. It became something else. It used to be about colour. It's about colour and class as well.

The World Bank says South Africa is the most unequal country in the world, a statistic driven by racial inequality.

But gatherings like these seem to be breaking down barriers and when it comes to dating, they’re trying to right the wrongs of the past.

Braai

NICK: We're teaching the older generation that it's okay. Uh, to have a different race as, uh, your spouse as your future, because that just shows with, I guess, the country as a whole is heading, and that's what Nelson Mandela wanted.

JANICE: It's beautiful. Thank you everyone. It was, that was really beautiful. And I think a key takeaway is the braai brings everyone together.

SARAH: The South African Way.

Braai

NDABA SINGING: When I first saw you, I said, oh my that's my dream….

Braai

I'm almost swept away by the infectious optimism of this group.

Despite the divide in society that I’ve seen on this trip, these young people make the reality of the Rainbow Nation seem achievable.

Seb and Pam - Playground

PAM: I am now born in a time /// where I can have a relationship with whomever I choose him being who I choose.

SEB: I am confident in our people, in our country, in our culture, in our diversity.

Seb and Pam - Playground

Step by step, some South Africans continue to blaze a trail down Nelson Mandela’s Long Road to Freedom.

Something my family could only dream of while living here.

Braai

NDABA SINGING: …and that's my dream.