SBS Dateline
LOVE
AND RACE IN SOUTH AFRICA
Postproduction
script
VIDEO |
AUDIO |
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Beach |
V/O: In South Africa, marrying outside
your race was illegal under the apartheid regime. My own history is tangled up in it. Before I was born my parents fled to
Australia in the hope of a better life. And although I’ve never lived here, I
feel as though it’s part of who I am, my identity and my story. |
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SUPER: Janice Petersen, reporter |
JANICE: My first visit here was when I was
about seven, and one of my biggest memories was wanting to go to the beach
with my cousins and we drove around on a stinking hot day
and we couldn't go to these beaches. They were whites
only. And that was a really deep, deeply hurtful
thing that I experienced back then. |
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Beach |
It was a small insight into the lengths the
state went to to keep people apart. So, I’ve come back to South
Africa to find out if love can finally overcome apartheid’s legacy. |
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PROGRAM TITLS: |
LOVE AND RACE IN SOUTH AFRICA Janice Petersen, Gemma Wilson, Colin
Cosier, Joel Stillone |
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Street pics |
Today South Africa calls itself the Rainbow
Nation. A term used by the country’s first black
president, Nelson Mandela, who led the country out of the darkness of
apartheid |
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File |
MANDELA: I cherish
the idea of a new South Africa where all South Africans are equal. |
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LOCATION TITLE: |
DURBAN |
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Pam & Seb’s house |
While the country has changed, racial
divisions are unfortunately still here. And while it’s not illegal to marry outside
your race anymore, mixed-race couples still face difficulties |
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Pam & Seb’s house |
UPSOT SEB: go
to the park? Will you be a good girl today? |
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Pam & Seb’s house |
Pam and Seb
are happily married with two young children, Jordan and little Luca. They
represent the vision Nelson Mandela, was fighting for. But as a
mixed-race couple their union is rare. |
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Pam & Seb IV |
JANICE
- I want to know about when you first met. Was it love at first sight? PAM:
No. / Yeah, we were always in the same circles, but never like best friends PAM
- And then he made some silly joke. And then from there, we, like spoke every
day, every day. SEB:
And then three months later, I asked her out officially. Six months later, I
asked her to marry me. Janice:
The six months! SEB
- Six months later I asked her to marry me. Six months later we got married.
Six months late, we got pregnant. |
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Pam & Seb’s house |
Pam is Black
South African… Sebastian is Indian South African. Both of their
families were discriminated against during the apartheid years… where people
were separated into racial groups. It imposed on
them the idea that some races were better than others. |
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Pam & Seb IV |
JANICE
- How did your family react when you got together? SEB
- Oh, that is a mess. // My families are not welcoming to Pam also because of the fact that not also but because of the fact
that she was black, obviously didn't tell I was dating an African woman, I
told them I was dating Pam. // and being an Indian coming in and family.
People expecting me to waltz in a pam that is Indian. And then the first day
that I arrived in, I showed Pam among us like, she's black // So that caused
a bit of a rift because my mom was not accepting of African women. JANICE
- How does that feel, Pam, to listen to this, your initial reception from his
family? PAM
- I mean, I wasn't surprised that they would have been like, oh, she's not
Indian. PAM
- I tried my best to not let it affect me, because if I did that, it would
just drive me insane. And also, I was confident in
my relationship with him because he never made me feel like it's just me
against his entire family. The fact that he put his foot down and defended me
despite what they said and still chose me. Made me feel like I had the
biggest wings. Like nobody could tell me anything because I know my husband
loves me, despite what you may think I am. You may think I have got dirty
blood, but as long as my husband cherishes me, those
words didn't affect me the way it could have |
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Pinky’s house |
PINKY: kiss for granny? |
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Pinky’s house |
Seb’s mum struggled
to accept her son’s love for Pam. He’s the only one in their family to date
outside his race. |
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Pinky’s house |
PAM:
Give granny a hug, Jordan. JANICE:
So, can you remember when Sebastian and Pam got together? PINKY:
five! |
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Pinky’s house |
SEB:
Why were you against me being in, in a, in a, in a relationship or JANICE:
What sort of things would he say? PINKY:
Dirty words like, uh, oh, should, should an African. Now, can you get married
to an African? And you know, let me put it this way. They say that the
Africans are one leg in the Bush and one leg in the home. They insult like
that. |
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Pinky’s home |
JANICE:
What does it feel like when that happens? PAM:
Obviously you don't want anybody to say bad things about you, but the things
that they would say are things that I can't change. /// but what they would
say, oh, I'm an African girl. Well, yes, I live in Africa and there's nothing
I can do about that. /// So I just carried on |
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Pinky’s home |
SEB:
If I had to tell you today, it's me or them, what would you do? SEB:
I think I've made this very clear to my wife and to my mother. Um, I enjoy my
marriage. I enjoy my journey and where I'm going. One thing I told my mother
as well, I will never choose her over my wife. |
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Pinky’s home |
JANICE:
You did say that you wanted to have an honest conversation with her. Do you
think that's happened this morning? |
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File vision |
For nearly 50
years, South Africa’s apartheid system placed people in a hierarchy based on
their skin colour. Whites
were at the top, Indians and so-called “Coloureds” were in the middle, and
Black South Africans at the bottom. Basic human
rights were denied to those who weren’t white and sex and marriage across
racial lines was illegal. The end of
apartheid in the early 90s bought with it a more hopeful and progressive
South Africa… |
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File vision |
MANDELA: the march
towards freedom and justice is irreversible |
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Pam and Seb walk in street |
But I get
constantly reminded that although mixed-race dating is now legal in 2022, the
architecture of apartheid is yet to completely crumble. |
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Pam and Seb walk in street |
PAM: So we do get a lot of stares /// for me. Like, I'll get
like like stares, like, in my eyes. And then they look at him, and then they
look at me and like, it's like, what am I seeing? Especially if they are
displays of affection, like how he's holding my hand. |
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Pam & Seb IV |
PAM
- People find that when you date a white person that, oh, wow, we've reached
the cloud. Yeah, it's like, oh, wow. It's like an. Achievement. Well done.
/// But if that same white person was dating a black person, then they'd be
like. I didn’t expect you to date a black girl or a black boy. So, yeah,
unfortunately, the black people are always seen as inferior. SEB
- It's pretty much like the caste system that we have in India communities. ///
Even though people will not say it as freely democratic country as we are,
still people still put people in hierarchies. PAM
- For people that were in apartheid, like it would be very hard mentally to
just click out of that mindset because it's mind control. Oh. Black people
are inferior, white people are superior. |
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Monica at Pam
& Seb’s house |
That noxious
idea that some races were better than others still lingers
in this country Pam says her
family, unlike her husband’s, never had reservations about the relationship
but I’m keen to see if this was true. |
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Monica at Pam
& Seb’s house |
JANICE:
Monica cast your mind back, what was your gut reaction when you found out
that Sebastian was Indian, how did you really feel? |
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Monica at Pam
& Seb’s house |
JANICE:
How did you feel about that? Your mom was openly saying that she had a bit of
an issue with you going out with an Indian. |
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Monica at Pam
& Seb’s house |
MONICA:
But then shame, when you came home, wow. He was totally different. He was
such a good boy as he is still is now, he was a
total different Indian that I've never seen. |
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Monica at Pam
& Seb’s house |
JANICE:
So Monica has meeting Sebastian changed your mind
about Indians in general? |
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File vision DATE STRAP:
July 2021 |
Last year, relations
between the Indian and Black African communities turned deadly, when a wave
of violence pitted neighbour against neighbour in riots that were the worst the country has seen since the end of apartheid. It was sparked by the imprisonment of former President
Jacob Zuma for contempt of court... then quickly morphed into
lawlessness, looting, and rioting by the marginalised and disenfranchised Over 300 people died Here in Phoenix, the turmoil sparked racial
profiling and vigilantism The police minister said of the dozens killed
here, most were black. and most of the suspected killers were Indian |
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Glen’s HQ |
Glen Naidoo is
the founder of a private security company in Phoenix |
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Glen’s HQ |
GLEN:
Sorry. I told these guys something and they didn't listen to me. Geez. ROMANO:
Do you want them all in line? GLEN:
Yeah. Make fast.
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Glen’s HQ SUPER: Glen Naidoo, KZN VIP Protection
Services |
JANICE:
Where do you get your hands on, on a tank like that? |
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Glen’s HQ |
When the looting and riots escalated, Glen
says the police were stretched and his own security company overwhelmed, so
he took to social media to publicly call on Phoenix residents to set up
roadblocks. |
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STRAP: July 2021 |
GLEN: We need to now form what is
called a civil defence force. This is him under the balaclava: GLEN: Residents are being robbed,
assaulted, et cetera. You must do whatever you think is right. You must do
everything in your power now to assist and help the community. If you don't
help yourselves, if you die, then that is your problem |
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Glen’s HQ |
GLEN:
Because we're predominantly Indian, people think that they can just step over
us. They did this in the 1949 riots // then in the 1985 riots, we were
victims again |
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Glen’s HQ |
GLEN: So, it was about survival. Had
we not barricaded Phoenix? Thousands of people would've died in Phoenix. Just
not that 35 that they talk about. I am telling you there would've been
thousands of them died or would've died. So, I think I prevented until the
massacre on a larger scale and not only a massacre, I
think I just stopped the war. |
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Glen driving |
But not
everyone sees it that way. South African
authorities say that these roadblocks enabled vigilantes to target Black
residents. |
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Glen driving |
GLEN: This street here, there were
barricades /// this is where people were arrested because found dead bodies
done the drain there. JANICE: Goodness. GLEN: here bodies hacked were shot JANICE:
You've just said we've driven past an area where there were bodies that were
shot and hacked. Yeah. And this look at this place, it's a suburban area. How
does it make you feel? GLEN: Well, you know, this place is, so it
just proves to you that you are not safe anywhere // we are sitting in a so-called with
a ticking time bomb. // We've been living peacefully on along, and then
suddenly within a few days, you've got more than 30 people dead. |
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Glen on street |
At a public enquiry into the killings, Glen
said he only called on Phoenix residents to barricade the suburb…not kill
people |
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Glen on street |
JANICE: Some people say that you were
part of this, that you were armed and that you've got blood on your hands. JANICE: But in the unfolding of all
dozens of people died. Was the outcome acceptable? |
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Thokozani’s
home |
That wound is
still very much open for Thokozani Mhlongo, who lives just a few blocks away. When I visit,
I lose count of the amount of relatives in her home.
The youngest… her grandson who is just a few months old. Her son, 18-year-old
Sanele, was killed in the riots |
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Thokozani
IV |
THOKOZANI
- Sanele was a very young, responsible man. Like we used to call him a
breadwinner in the house // Let's say he comes back from school and I'm not
at home. And he sees there's no bread in the bread tin. He take
his own money, go buy bread |
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Thokozani
IV |
JANICE
- What do you know about Sanele’s death? THOKOZANI
- Actually, I don't have much because what I know is what people are telling
me because I was there. /// That just he went to the petrol station with his
friend. Then they were stopped by the Gang of Indians who started firing into
the car. Then when the car stopped, then they all jump off to run away. But
sadly, they didn't make it. He was shot dead in the same place in the scene. That's
all I know. And I. It took me four days to find him because his friend
couldn't come and tell me that finally they left him lying on the floor that
day was going to take me. So that is the only thing I have. Nothing. |
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File |
Thokozani
doesn’t know where her son was going, just that he was out when the city was
convulsing with violence… |
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Thokozani
IV |
JANICE:
So, you were told that an Indian person shot your son. How do you feel about
the Indian community now? THOKOZANI
- You know, I feel so bad. /// even seeing an Indian person, for me, the
tears will just fall in my face. /// Because I just couldn't stand the sight
of them. But at least now I'm healing. Slowly, slowly |
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Thokozani
IV |
JANICE:
But do you blame someone for his death? THOKOZANI:
No. JANICE:
Why do you think you don't have bitterness in your heart to blame someone? Your
son was shot dead. THOKOZANI:
Because I have to. I have no one to blame except
racism, because it's clear for everyone this whatever happened in July 12, it
was racism. So, he was born in here in Phoenix. He grew up in Phoenix. He had
Indian friends. /// So, his whole life was in Phoenix. But that day he died
because of his skin colour. |
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South Africa pictures |
South Africa, the so-called Rainbow Nation,
has a dark history. Under Apartheid people were systemically
separated by the colour of their skin. Today, Apartheid is over, but for
mixed-race couples, even love is haunted by the ghosts of the past. |
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Sarah & Ndaba’s
house |
Fighting this history is a couple who use
their love and faith to bridge racial divides |
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Sarah & Ndaba IV |
JANICE:
Take me back to when you first met. Was it love at first sight? NDABA:
Yeah... For her it was I think. JANICE: And so, Sarah, how did your family react to each
other? SARAH: They were over the moon. They didn't have any
doubts. I think some of that is probably in the fact that they they know how they raised me and
they had trust. They trusted my choices. But they were they were really happy. JANICE: And Ndaba, how did your
family react when you told them you were going out with Sarah? Ndaba: Very excited.
Very excited. |
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Braai |
After
everything I’ve seen and heard on this trip, this is refreshing to hear. Sarah and Ndaba are youth leaders at their church. Every month
they organise a group dinner at their house. Tonight, I’m joining them for a
braai, the South African version of an Aussie BBQ. |
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Braai |
NDABA:
We ask that you please bless his food and may bring health announcement, our
bodies. And please bless the hands that have prepared it in the name of
Jesus. We pray everybody say |
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Braai |
The aim of
these meals is to bring people together from different backgrounds who might
not normally hang out. |
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Braai |
JANICE:
This is a very diverse bunch of people, which is beautiful. Do you think you
all would've got together? If it wasn't for these two? FEMALE, BLACK JACKET: For me, I'd say no… Ndaba and Sarah, they invited me
over and then that's how I started coming STEVE: from my side, I think it's just a
matter of intention // for like Sarah and Ndaba in specifically,
they've been extremely intentional about saying, hey guys, come, we want you
all there |
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Braai |
JANICE:
I'm guessing by the look of you, you're all, you know, lovely and young and
I'm guessing that no, one's had a lived experience under the apartheid
system. Right? So, what's the legacy of that. Can you still feel some of
those racial divisions in South Africa today STEVE:
I would say definitely, like 100%. NDABA:
I think it's, it's still there. Um, unfortunately // the racism has now a new
cousin called classism as well. /// So, some people say that the whole, a apartheid system really never actually went away. It
just flipped. It became something else. It used to be about colour. It's
about colour and class as well. |
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The
World Bank says South Africa is the most unequal country in the world, a
statistic driven by racial inequality. But
gatherings like these seem to be breaking down barriers and when it comes to
dating, they’re trying to right the wrongs of the past. |
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Braai |
NICK:
We're teaching the
older generation that it's okay. Uh, to have a different race as, uh, your
spouse as your future, because that just shows with, I guess, the country as a whole is heading, and that's what Nelson Mandela
wanted. JANICE:
It's beautiful. Thank you everyone. It was, that was really
beautiful. And I think a key takeaway is the braai brings everyone
together. SARAH:
The South African Way. |
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Braai |
NDABA
SINGING: When I first saw you, I said, oh my that's my dream…. |
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Braai |
I'm almost
swept away by the infectious optimism of this group. Despite the
divide in society that I’ve seen on this trip, these young people make the
reality of the Rainbow Nation seem achievable. |
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Seb and Pam - Playground |
PAM:
I am now born in a time /// where I can have a relationship with whomever I
choose him being who I choose SEB:
I am confident in our people, in our country, in our culture, in our
diversity. |
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Seb and Pam - Playground |
Step by step, some South Africans continue to
blaze a trail down Nelson Mandela’s Long Road to Freedom. Something my family could only dream of while
living here. |
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Braai |
NDABA
SINGING: …and that's my dream. |
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