SOUTH AFRICA - BISHOP OF GENOCIDE
August 2000 - 28' 40"
02.47
Special Operations Unit HQ
The Scorpions
What we will concentrate on today is that a certain Bishop came into the country on the fourth of July. He is apparently one of the people involved in the genocide in Ruanda. The bishop is in the country illegally. The reason why we have to act today is that yesterday the bishop went to a travel agent to buy tickets. The man wanted to leave for America tonight. We’ve got passports, we’ll make copies, and give each one a copy of what everybody looks like. Mr Mullelli and eight people will leave now.
0900
The Scorpions leave for Johannesburg
Go to the scene; blend in.
THIS IS THE ANGLICAN BISHOP THE SCORPIONS ARE HUNTING… SAMUEL MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA. HE’S AN INTERNATIONAL FUGITIVE, WANTED BY THE CRIMINAL TRIBUNAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS… FOR GENOCIDE AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.
THE BISHOP’S BEEN ON THE RUN FOR SIX YEARS. HE SPENT TIME IN KENYA… AND THEN CAME TO SOUTH AFRICA…WITH TWO RWANDAN BODYGUARDS, A STACK OF FALSE PASSPORTS AND A BAG FULL OF MONEY.
SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT FILMED THE BISHOP AS HE STEPPED ONTO THE PAVEMENT… WAITING FOR SOMEONE TO FETCH HIM…
04.08
11h00
The Mariston Hotel
Johannesburg
THE NET WAS CLOSING AROUND THEM.
_________________________________________________________
04.18
The Bishop of Shyogwe
THE TRAIL THAT TOOK BISHOP SAMUEL MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA FROM RWANDA TO SOUTH AFRICA STARTS IN CENTRAL RWANDA. THE AREA LIES IN WHAT WAS KNOWN AS THE TRIANGLE OF DEATH. IN 1994 SOME OF THE FIERCEST KILLINGS TOOK PLACE HERE… AS HUTU EXTREMISTS TRIED TO EXTERMINATE THE TUTSI POLULATION. OVER A MILLION PEOPLE DIED IN THE GENOCIDE. YEARS AFTER THE KILLINGS, SURVIVORS ARE STILL BURYING THE REMAINS OF THEIR LOVED ONES.
THIS IS ALSO THE PLACE WHERE THE STORY OF BISHOP SAMUEL MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA BEGINS... IN THE ANGLICAN PARISH OF SHYOGWE NEAR GITARAMA… WHERE HE WAS BISHOP.
THE BISHOP LEFT RWANDA IN MAY 1994… AND HASN’T RETURNED SINCE. BUT MANY OF THE SURVIVORS OF THE GENOCIDE AT SHYOGWE WILL NEITHER FORGET NOR FORGIVE THE MAN THEY ONCE TRUSTED.
05.27
Would you like to tell us whether you know that man?
05.31
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
Yeah I know, I know the man. I know the man. This man was a bishop of Shyogwe. He was, he was a killer. He killed our parents, he decided to take our father, our family to be killed.
SINCE 1994 THE ORGANISATION ‘AFRICA RIGHTS’ HAS BEEN RESEARCHING THE GENOCIDE. THEY’VE INTERVIEWED VICTIMS EXTENSIVELY… AND INVESTIGATED THE ROLE OF BISHOP MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA IN THE KILLINGS AT SHYOGWE. THEY REFER TO HIM AS A GENOCIDAIRE – ONE OF THOSE WHO PERPETRATED GENOCIDE.
06.14
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
Bishop Samuel Mu-sa-byi-ma-na was the man who incited and organised the genocide in Shyogwe in 1994.
BEFORE THE GENOCIDE, THE ANGLICAN PARISH OF SHYOGWE WAS A HAVEN OF PEACE AND TRANQUILITY.
06.30
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
Before the genocide this man was a good man. He was a good man, all of us we were writing that this man is good, he was a bishop.
THEN, ON THE 6TH OF APRIL 1994, THE GENOCIDE STARTED. THE INTERAHAMWE WERE HUTU EXTREMISTS… ARMED, TRAINED AND SUPPORTED BY GOVERNMENT SOLDIERS. THAT NIGHT THEY TOOK TO THE STREETS AND STARTED KILLING TUTSIS. THE CAMPAIGN HAD BEEN PLANNED FOR YEARS… BY HUTU FANATICS IN THE GOVERNMENT AND THE ARMY.
BEFORE LONG, THE GENOCIDE REACHED SHYOGWE. PEOPLE FLED THEIR HOMES…
07.10
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
We decided to go to this Anglican Church because we knew that we must get help, because this man was a good man.
BUT THE BISHOP ALLOWED ONLY A HANDFUL OF TUTSIS TO ENTER THE CHURCH GROUNDS. THE REST WERE TURNED AWAY – OFTEN TO BE KILLED.
07.27
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
Particularly he told people to KabGayi, the Catholic diocese of KabGayi, and the road between KabGayi and Shyogwe had numerous road blocks, the purpose of which was to trap and kill Tutsis.
AT THE TIME OF THE GENOCIDE, PASTOR CELESTIN HA-TE-GE-KI-MA-NA WAS A CLERGYMAN AT SHYOGWE. HIS BISHOP WAS SAMUEL MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA.
07.54
Celestin Hategekimana
Pastor at Shyogwe
(Translated) He knew they could be killed on the road to Kabgayi. He said “People are dying on that road”.
08.05
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
I think it would be fair to say he sent these people away either with the knowledge that they would be killed, or indifferent as to what their fate would be.
08.16
Celestin Hategekimana
Pastor at Shyogwe
He said about the Tutsis: “This is the end for them…they have to be killed and finished!”
AS THE FIGHTING AROUND THE CAPITAL OF KIGALI INTENSIFIED, THE GENOCIDAL GOVERNMENT MOVED THEIR OPERATION SOUTHWEST TO GITARAMA. THEY WERE THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO PLANNED THE EXTERMINATION OF RWANDA’S TUTSI’S. MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA’S HOUSE AT THE PARISH BECAME A MEETING PLACE FOR SOME OF RWANDA’S MOST NOTORIOUS MINISTERS AND ARMY OFFICERS.
08.44
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
Clearly Mu-sa-byi-ma-na was considered a confidante of the men who were planning and carrying out the genocide, and also that he was their ally.
08.54
Celestin Hategekimana
Pastor at Shyogwe
By that time, I saw him as a killer…he was working with the killers.
08.59
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
Nothing can ever explain the influence in Ruanda of people seeing a bishop openly in support of the genocide. That is incitement in its most pure form, incitement to genocide, and it succeeded.
09.15
Celestin Hategekimana
Pastor at Shyogwe
I was worried, but the bishop said: “It is the end of the Tutsi’s.”
THIS IS KIGALI’S CENTRAL PRISON. THOUSANDS WHO COMMITTED GENOCIDE ARE LOCKED UP HERE. AMONG THEM IS PASTOR ATHANASE NGI-RIN-SHUTI…WHO WAS SECOND- IN-CHARGE AT SHYOGWE.
NGI-RIN-SHUTI WAS SENTENCED TO DEATH FOR THE SAME CRIMES THE BISHOP STANDS ACCUSED OF. NGI-RIN-SHUTI CLAIMS HE’S INNOCENT - AND STILL SUPPORTS HIS BISHOP.
09.49
Athanase Ngirinshuti
Condemned to death
I am sentenced to death, I shall accept (speaks in French briefly) …I am not guilty…my conscience is very very quiet.
10.02
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
Ngirinshuti came under the direct authority of Mu-sa-byi-ma-na and during the genocide he was very much Mu-sa-byi-ma-na’s right hand man.
AMONG OTHER THINGS, NGI-RIN-SHUTI WAS FOUND GUILTY OF ATTENDING A MEETING IN MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA’S HOUSE… WHERE THE BISHOP ASKED AN ARMY OFFICER FOR GUNS. PASTOR CELESTIN WAS HIDING IN THE HOUSE… AND OVERHEARD THE CONVERSATION. HE SAID THE GUNS WERE GIVEN TO THE INTERAHAMWE AT ROADBLOCKS AROUND THE PARISH.
10.35
Celestin Hategekimana
Pastor at Shyogwe
He gave them guns, and those guns were used to kill people. Even people far away were killed with the bishop’s guns.
ACCORDING TO THE COURT EVIDENCE, THE BISHOP ORDERED
NGI-RIN-SHUTI TO MAKE LISTS… NAMES OF TUTSIS HE’D ALLOWED TO ENTER THE CHURCH GROUNDS. AT THE TIME, FULGENCE MUKUNZI AND LINGO NDI-ZI-HI-WE WERE STAYING THERE… WITH THEIR FAMILIES.
11.18
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
Lists were drawn up of who was a Tutsi and who was a Hutu, to make sure that when the killing started, only those destined to die, died.
11.25
Lingo Ndizihiwe
Survivor
There were two. The bishop was standing, Ngirinshuti was writing.
THE LISTS WERE NOTHING LESS THAN A PRELUDE TO MASS MURDER… AND FURTHER IMPLICATE BISHOP MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA IN GENOCIDE. ON THE SIXTH OF MAY 1994, SOLDIERS ARRIVED AT THE PARISH… TO KILL ALL TUTSIS.
11.55
Athanase Ngirinshuti
Condemned to death
They took me to that house, where they took people. In fact they took (Fulgence’s?) father, Fidel, his mother, Katarina..
12.09
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
Ngirinshuti, he came with a book, read our names. He read my name, “Mukuzi, Fulgence, come” … I came with my father. I remember I was with my mother, sister and brothers…
12.22
Athanase Ngirinshuti
Condemned to death
When they started to beat them with their guns, I said to one of the children who were there, I can’t remember who they are, “please go, go that side, and try to go for the bishop”.
THE BISHOP ALSO ARRIVED AT THE SCENE… WITH THE MINISTER OF INFORMATION, A KNOWN GENOCIDAIRE. THE BISHOP SPOKE TO THE SOLDIERS.
12.45
Celestin Hategekimana
Pastor at Shyogwe
He said to them: “Take these people and kill them… But don’t kill them here…kill them outside.”
12.59
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
If you see somebody laughing when you are struggling, you can’t ask him for help.
13.05
So was the bishop laughing?
13.07
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
He was laughing. I think that he laughed for the ‘good’ things he saw. For him, I think it was good.
THE BOYS AND THEIR FAMILIES WERE LOADED ONTO A PICK-UP. THEN AS THEY DROVE AWAY, THE SOLDIERS SPOTTED A MAN WITH A HAND GRENADE. THEY STOPPED TO QUESTION HIM…
13.35
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
I remember, his father, father of Lingo, he was a good man, he was a strong man. So his father, he told him to jump out of the car, to run. So he was a young boy, he took him and threw him away. I saw him and I did the same.
14.00
So you jumped off..?
14.01
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
I jumped behind him.
THE TWO BOYS GOT AWAY. FOR ABOUT TWO WEEKS THEY HID OUT IN THE FOREST. THEIR FAMILIES WERE EXECUTED.
14.22
Fulgence Mukunzi
Survivor
My father, my mother, two sisters, and one brother…they were all killed.
14.32
Lingo Ndizihiwe
Survivor
My Papa, mama…
14.35
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
These were men who used their position, their authority, their resources, at the height of a genocide, to ensure that their parishioners were killed.
14.45
Athanase Ngirinshuti
Condemned to death
Mu-sa-byi-ma-na himself couldn’t do anything as a bishop. He hadn’t a gun, he hadn’t anything to protect them
14.53
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
This clergy used to say quite openly, sometimes officially at mass during the genocide, that “God himself has handed over the Tutsi’s; you don’t need to trouble your conscience with what is happening.”
15.05
Do you think Mu-sa-byi-ma-na is guilty of genocide?
15.09
Athanase Ngirinshuti
Condemned to death
Til now I say no.
BY JULY 1994, THE TUTSI-DOMINATED RWANDESE PATRIOTIC FRONT OR RPF HAD WON THE WAR. A MILLION RWANDAN REFUGEES FLED INTO THE CONGO. AMONG THEM… THE INTERAHAMWE, SOLDIERS, POLITICIANS - AND BISHOP SAMUEL MU-SA-BIY-MA-NA. WITH HIS WIFE, BERNADATTE, AND THREE CHILDREN, HE ARRIVED IN CONGO BY ARMY HELICOPTER … SOON AFTERWARDS, MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA THEN MOVED TO NAIROBI IN KENYA…. WHERE HE SET UP A RWANDAN REFUGEE AGENCY… CALLED “HOPE”. THERE’S EVIDENCE THAT “HOPE” IS NOTHING BUT A FRONT… RECRUITING FIGHTERS FOR THE CIVIL WAR IN THE CONGO. THE INTERAHAMWE ALSO SET UP BASES THERE TO LAUNCH ATTACKS INTO RWANDA.
15.57
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
He would like to be home, in charge of a country in which, as the forces of genocide used to say, “Children will ask: what did a Tutsi look like?” That’s his program.
16.08
Emmanuel Kolini
Archbishop of Ruanda
The church had asked him to come back to Ruanda. So, he was invited to come back. He declined for some of his good reasons.
TWO YEARS, AGO, THE INTERNATIONAL TRIBUNAL FOR RWANDA STARTED INVESTIGATING MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA. THE TRIBUNAL WAS SET UP BY THE UNITED NATIONS TO INVESTIGATE, ARREST, TRY AND CONVICT THOSE WHO PLANNED AND PERPETRATED THE GENOCIDE.
16.39
Bernard Muna
Prosecutor: UN Tribunal for Ruanda
We are investigating offences to do especially with incitement of genocide, genocide, conspiracy to commit genocide and crimes against humanity.
16.55
Rakiya Omaar
Director: African Rights
He has the confidence that the churches abroad, with whom he has remaied very close, and who have given him enormous support, moral as well as financial, before the genocide and since the end of the genocide, will continue to support him.
UNDETERRED BY THE INTERNATIONAL INVESTIGATION,
MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA DECIDED TO TRAVEL SOUTH. ON THE FOURTH OF JULY, HE ARRIVED AT JOHANNESBURG INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT. IN HIS POSSESSION… SEVERAL FALSE PASSPORTS, A SOUTH AFRICAN VISA, TWO RWANDAN BODYGUARDS… AND THOUSANDS OF US DOLLARS.
AD BREAK
_________________________________________________________
DOWNTOWN JOHANNESBURG: A HAVEN FOR ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, DRUG DEALERS AND FUGITVES.
IT’S HERE THAT SAMUEL MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA HEADED WHEN HE FIRST ARRIVED IN THE CITY OF GOLD. HE BOOKED INTO THE MARISTON HOTEL: A PLACE OF REFUGE FOR A NETWORK OF RWANDAN FUGITIVES AND EXTREMISTS.
18.02
Fundi Felix
Ruwandan Embassy: Pretoria
This is a network of extremists…the core extremists. These guys come in illegally, change documents, go under false names. Some confess they are fundraising for the war efforts in their region.
TOWARDS THE END OF JULY, SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT DISCOVERED THAT BISHOP MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA WAS LIVING IN ROOM 1010.
WE PERSUADED A RWANDAN REFUGEE TO BOOK INTO THE HOTEL, MEET THE BISHOP AND FIND OUT WHAT HE WAS DOING IN SOUTH AFRICA. WE ARMED THE REFUGEE WITH A SPY CAMERA… HIDDEN IN A BAG.
18.45
10h00
29 July 2000
Mariston Hotel
HE FIRST BEFRIENDED THE BISHOP’S TWO BODYGUARDS. SHORTLY AFTERWARDS, HE WAS INTRODUCED TO MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA HIMSELF.
19.02
Bishop Mu-sa-byi-ma-na
(Translated) What is inside that bag?
19.06
Refugee
(Translated) Young people always carry complicated things…like documents and condoms.
(Laughter)
THE BISHOP CONFIRMED THAT HE WAS INVOLVED IN MOVING RWANDANS AROUND THE WORLD.
19.16
Bishop Mu-sa-byi-ma-na
(Translated) I help people. I can get genuine visas from embassies. I accompany people…make sure they reach their destiation, and then I come back.
19.32
Fundi Felix
Ruwandan Embassy: Pretoria
Mu-sa-byi-ma-na I think could be a big role player in terms of facilitating plans and inciting things towards the Congo.
WE TRACED ANOTHER MEMBER OF THE NETWORK TO YEOVILLE IN JOHANNESBURG… THE RWANDAN WHO SUPPLIES THE EXTREMISTS WITH FALSE PASSPORTS AND FAKE VISAS. GRACIEN GA-TA-RA-YI-HA WAS A FORMER LIEUTENANT IN THE GENOCIDAL ARMY. HE WAS THE PERSON WHO MET THE BISHOP AT THE AIRPORT.
20.04
Gracien Ga-ta-ra-yi-ha
(Translated) I’ve bought a lot of passports. I keep them in a store. I have a store full of passports.
16h00
1 August 2000
Park Station Jhb
WE ALSO FILMED ANOTHER MAN… AS HE HEADED OFF TO MPUMALANGA TO FETCH RWANDAN EXTREMISTS WHO’D JUST ENTERED THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY.
15h00
3 August 2000
Mariston Hotel
A FEW DAYS LATER, THE FAMILY WAS IN THE MARISTON HOTEL… WAITING FOR THEIR ILLEGAL TRAVEL DOCUMENTS. THE FATHER IS ACCUSED OF GENOCIDE… AND ESCAPED FROM PRISON IN RWANDA BEFORE COMING TO SOUTH AFRICA.
0800
4 August 2000
Mariston Hotel
WE ALSO RECORDED THIS RWANDAN WOMAN. SHE’D JUST RECEIVED HER FALSE CAMEROONIAN PASSPORT. AMONG OTHERS, IT HAD A SOUTH AFRICAN VISA.
20. 59
Fundi Felix
Ruwandan Embassy: Pretoria
We have had reports of networks of people who smuggle them in through Swaziland or Mozambique. They are paying for that.
WE DISCOVERED THAT OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS… SEVERAL GENOCIDIARES HAVE EITHER VISITED SOUTHAFRICA… OR FOUND REFUGE HERE. THE MASTERMIND BEHIND THE GENOCIDE, COLONEL THEONESTE BAGASORA, VISISTED SOUTH AFRICA SEVERAL TIMES… TO MEET WITH THE EXTREMISTS. HE’S NOW IN DETENTION IN ARUSHA ON CHARGES OF GENOCIDE.
21.38
Fundi Felix
Ruwandan Embassy: Pretoria
They come from all over the world and they have meetings all over the world, so not only South Africa. Colonel Bagasora came to this country for some time with a false (Congoese?) passport. He came for procurement of arms.
THIS MAN IS SAID TO BE THE LEADER OF THE EXTREMISTS IN SOUTH AFRICA. HIS NAME IS PAUL HABIMANA… A REGULAR VISITOR TO THE MARISTON HOTEL. DESPITE OVERWHELMING EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY, THE EXTREMISTS STILL SAY THAT THE 1994 GENOCIDE WAS PLANNED AND EXECUTED BY THE TUTSI THEMSELVES. WE INTERVIEWED PAUL HABIMANA IN HIS OFFICE IN PRETORIA.
22.17
Paul Habimana
Rwandan Extremist
There are them who planned the genocide.
22.19
Not the former governement?
22.22
Paul Habimana
Rwandan Extremist
Not the former government.
22.26
So why do you think so many people believe that the genocide was started by the former government, by the so-called Hutu extremists?
22.32
Paul Habimana
Rwandan Extremist
Normally they are misinformation (misinformed)
22.37
Fundi Felix
Ruwandan Embassy: Pretoria
Most of these people, I like to call them fugitives, not refugees, they trade in false information and rumours for their survival and protection and asylum.
22.50
Interviewer to Paul Habimana
Bishop Samuel Mu-sa-byi-ma-na, do you know him?
22.53
Paul Habiman
Rwandan Extremist
I know him, or I hear about him only once.
22.58
Fundi Felix
Ruwandan Embassy: Pretoria
I would be surprised if the Bishop came and went, if the bishop came and never met Paul. I would be surprised.
23.05
Interviewer to Paul Habimana
You had a meeting with Bishop Mu-sa-byi-ma-na?
23.07
Paul Habiman
Rwandan Extremist
When?
23.08
One week ago.
23.09
Paul Habimana
One week ago?
23.10
Interviewer
In the Mariston Hotel. You had a meeting with him.
23.16
Paul Habimana
I don’t…
23.17
Interviewer
In room 1010. You had a meeting with Bishop Mu-sa-byi-na-ma.
23.23
Paul Habimana
I don’t know.
23.24
Interviewer
Is it not true?
23.25
Paul Habimana
It is not true.
23.28
Interviewer
I want to say to you that that meeting has been recorded. You had a meeting with him. On August the fourth, at two o’clock in the afternoon you had a meeting with Bishop Mu-sa-byi-ma-na in the Mariston Hotel.
Pause
23.50
Paul Habimana
No.
14h00
4 August 2000
Mariston Hotel
24.00
Bishop Mu-sa-byi-ma-na
God be with you…how are you Paul?
OUR RWANDAN REFUGEE WAS NOT ALLOWED TO ATTEND THE MEETING. HE WAS SENT TO BUY COOLDRINKS… AND WAS THEN TOLD TO LEAVE THE ROOM.
24.20
Paul Habimana (in interview)
Okay I met him because he…because there is somebody who told me about him. I know that he had …(name) which was working with refugees.
13h00
1 August 2000
Melville, Jhb
AT THE BEGINNING OF AUGUST, BISHOP MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA WAS TRYING TO GO TO THE UNITED STATES. HE WANTED TO RELOCATE RWANDANS IN AMERICA. LIEUTENANT GRATIEN GA-TA-RA-YI-HA COULDN’T GET HIM AMERICAN VISAS, AND SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT’S REPORTER WAS INTRODUCED TO THE BISHOP AS A BUSINESSMAN WHO MIGHT BE ABLE TO HELP.
24.54
Bishop Mu-sa-byi-ma-na
And now it is only for the visa.
24.58
Reporter
For how many people?
25.00
Bishop Mu-sa-byi-ma-na
We are six
I tell you, there is very good business we can do. Once I come back…I will show you. I have very good connections.
TWO DAYS LATER, THE BISHOP HANDED OVER SIX PASSPORTS. AMONG THEM, HIS OWN ILLEGAL RWANDAN PASSPORT. SPECIAL ASSIGNMENT DECIDED TO INFORM THE ELITE SCORPIONS UNIT… THAT HE WAS IN SOUTH AFRICA… AND THAT HE WAS WANTED BY THE UNITED NATIONS FOR GENOCIDE.
Special Operations Unit HQ
The Scorpions
FOUR DAYS LATER, THE SCORPIONS PLANNED HIS ARREST.
25.37
Scorpion spokesman
The man wants to leave for America tonight, so we have to arrest him today. We don’t have a warrant from the tribunal in Arusha yet, but Muluka is working on that. We believe there must be a warrant there
11h02
11 August 2000
Joubert Park Jhb
MINUTES AFTER HE LEFT THE HOTEL, THE SCORPIONS MOVED IN. AS THE BISHOP WAS ARRESTED, THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS, BULELANI NGCUKA, PHONED THE UN TRIBUNAL FOR RWANDA…. TO VERIFY THE BISHOP’S STATUS.
26.17
Bulenani Ngcuka
Director of Public Prosecutions
They informed me that they will come to South Africa, that they have a warrant. They did verify in fact that yes he was on the wanted list and they were very excited about it.
26.30
Bernard Muna
Prosecutor: UN Tribunal for Rwanda
We have a very strong case against Samuel Mu-sa-byi-ma-na. He definitely, in my mind, used his position in the church to facilitate the commission of genocide.
26.42
Bulenani Ngcuka
Director of Public Prosecutions
So the arrangement that we made was that we would keep him in custody until they come and provide us with a warrant.
26.50
Bernard Muna
Prosecutor: UN Tribunal for Rwanda
A genocide maximum sentence is life imprisonment.
THE BISHOP WAS HANDED TO HOME AFFAIRS IN PRETORIA…. WHERE HE WAS DETAINED AS AN ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT. THE DEPARTMENT WAS SUPPOSED TO HOLD HIM UNTIL THE UN TRIBUNAL CAME TO FETCH HIM. BUT THE SCORPIONS FORGOT TO TELL THEM.
27.11
Bulenani Ngcuka
Director of Public Prosecutions
Investigators were here at my invitation. I’d invited them to come to the country, and they were here and expecting us to deliver the person to them. And the person was gone.
BISHOP SAMUEL MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA WAS RELEASED TWO DAYS BEFORE THE UNITED NATIONS ARRIVED IN SOUTH AFRICA. THE DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC PROSECUTIONS CALLS IT A “MIS-COMMUNICATION” BETWEEN HOME AFFAIRS AND THE SCORPIONS UNIT.
27.41.
Interviewer
Who is responsible for that miscommunication?
27.44
Bulenani Ngcuka
Director of Public Prosecutions
Look, I think I take the responsibility for it, I’m saying that to the extent that my office has blundered I accept that responsibility. And I think that is what I would like to do, the buck stops with me and I take that responsibility, I feel bad for it. And as I have said, I have already apologised to my counterparts in (Alucia?) and hopefully, they have told me, they have accepted my apology.
ON THE MORNING OF AUGUST THE 23RD, BISHOP MU-SA-BYI-MA-NA WAS TAKEN TO JOHANNESBURG INTERNATIONAL AIRPORT. HIS FALSE PASSPORTS WERE RETURNED TO HIM. HE THEN BOARDED AN INTERNATIONAL FLIGHT FOR NAIROBI.
Credits…