Swiss Neutrality: Tested

Radio Télévision Suisse | Postproduction script

00:00:02,020 VO: -NATO HQ in Brussels. Here, Switzerland is rarely on the agenda. Except when all eyes are on the small country on the hottest international issue of the moment. Since the Russian invasion, the Swiss Federal Council has refused that the countries to which it has sold arms can re-export them to Ukraine, and most don't like that at all. This Tuesday, a Swiss delegation was invited for a visit. The media, on the other hand were asked to stay away. It is 5:00 pm when the members of the Security Policy of the States Commission return to their hotel. The day has obviously been busy.

00:00:44,980 Reporter: -How did it go today?

Charles: -Very interesting!

00:00:48,740 Céline: -A marathon day, we didn't stop, we are tired.

00:00:55,160 Reporter: -Did you talk about the hot topics?

Céline: -Yes, that was the goal.

00:00:59,271 Reporter: -Were re-exports on the table?

00:01:01,685 Céline: -Absolutely.

00:01:04,203 VO: -Céline Vara and Charles Juillard are the French-speaking members of the Swiss delegation. On the question of the re-exportation of arms, they disagree.

00:01:15,534 Charles: -We are at war, is it not an exceptional situation?

00:01:18,775 Céline: -Switzerland is not at war!

00:01:19,968 Charles: -The West is at war to defend its values, democracy, freedom, human rights. If this is not a fundamental reason and sufficient reason to take part in the international solidarity, I don't understand it anymore.

00:01:32,936 Céline: -Through its neutrality, Switzerland offers its good offices and makes humanitarian law. Switzerland is a peacemaker, it does not fuel war.

00:01:43,847 Charles: -We do not supply weapons or ammunition directly. After that, it is up to each country to do its own weighing.

00:01:53,660 Céline: -We are not talking about exporting apples, these are weapons that kill people!

00:01:59,081 Charles: -Although William Tell, if you want to go back... We can talk about the neutrality...

00:02:06,325 VO: -Neutrality: the word is key. A fundamental part of Swiss identity, this is what makes the debate so painful for the parliamentarians. Tonight they will agree on perhaps a truce at dinner. But tomorrow, the discussions will resume since the international pressure remains at its peak and could blunt our neutrality.

2’34 Title – Swiss Neutrality: Tested

00:02:38,621 VO: -It all started with this machine: the Guepard. Germany delivered 50 of them to Ukraine last spring. It was used to shoot down a Russian missile... according to this video from December 5. But to understand how Switzerland is involved in this case, you need some military knowledge. Alexandre Vautravers is specialist in armoured vehicles.

00:03:09,742 Alexandre: -This is a tank used for aircraft defense that was built in the 1970s. This is a product jointly developed by a Swiss company and a German company.

3’17 Alexandre Vautravers, Military expert

00:03:22,710 VO: -And in this industrial partnership lies the object of debate. The ammunition of the Guepard are made in Switzerland.

00:03:32,169 Alexandre: -These are 35 mm explosive and incendiary shells.

00:03:39,143 VO: -According to our law, Germany is not allowed to re-export Swiss material. So Germany asked Switzerland to lift the ban for its 12,400 munitions. The Federal Council said no.

00:03:53,596 Reporter: -Is a Guepard tank without ammunition useless?

00:03:56,661 Alexandre: -It is useless. Even a Guepard tank with 12,400 shells is useless. With these two guns, you fire 1,100 rounds per minute.

00:04:09,051 VO: -Not enough to change the course of the war, then. However, Germany reiterated its request, it is obviously a matter of principle. Germany is also under pressure. Last week, it had to lift the non-re-export clause which it had been applying to Poland on its own Leopard tanks. So why wouldn't Switzerland do the same? The Europeans are getting in tune to the same level. The Davos Economic Forum was the right place to do so. NATO's Secretary General insisted on getting the message across.

00:04:49,090 Jens: But this is not about neutrality, this is about the right for self-defence, enshrined in the UN charter. So, we have an obligation to uphold the UN charter and to help Ukraine defend themselves.

4’54 Jens Stoltenberg, NATO secretary general

00:05:04,263 VO: -The Ukrainians themselves are multiplying their appeals, like here the First Lady.

00:05:10,435 Olena Zelenska: -What you all have in common, is that you are influential, but you don't all use that influence.

00:05:23,183 VO: -During the last parliamentary session, a delegation of the Ukrainian civil society came to Bern. Among them, this woman.

00:05:31,311 Reporter: -Hello, Olena.

00:05:32,995 VO: -Olena Halushka works for an NGO in Kyiv, she met with our parliamentarians.

00:05:41,110 Reporter: And you met some Swiss deputies?

Olena: They told us that Switzerland is right now considering the legislative initiative which might allow the re-export. And we obviously encouraged them to move forward with it because it is about saving innocent lives.

Reporter: If you had the Swiss president Alain Berset in front of you now, what would you tell him?

Olena: Russia has broken the world order. We know how important this is for Switzerland. The noble thing to do is to try to stop the perpetrator, and if there are no effective tools and instruments right now, they should be invented, they should be installed.

Reporter: Thank you very much.

00:06:28,916 VO: -But despite Germany's demands, Denmark and Spain, the Federal Council still refuses the delivery of weapons to Ukraine.

00:06:38,412 Politician: -The re-export of war material is a sensitive issue, we have to be careful before rereading the question in a new light because we are under the pressure of a war in Europe.

00:06:54,380 VO: -Faced with the status quo, the Parliament wakes up. In the front line the Centre. The party proposes an emergency law so that the Federal Council to act immediately. The president of the Centre, Gerhard Pfister, does not give up the fight to support Ukraine.

7’09 Le Centre logo

00:07:14,307 Gerhard: -Why does Switzerland deliver arms to Saudi Arabia but refuses to help a European country defend itself?

00:07:24,900 VO: -And against all odds, the left has stepped in. The PS proposes to allow re-exportation in case of violation condemned by the UN, which is the case in Ukraine.

7’36 Le PS logo and NATO logo

00:07:38,153 Roger: -We can't prevent our allied countries to be in solidarity with Ukraine.

7’41 Roger Nordmann, President, Social Democratic group

00:07:47,505 VO: -The proposal has had its hour of glory in the security committee of the National Council. It has destabilized more than one within the party. This Tuesday in Carouge, it was a door-to-door campaign for the socialist activists.

00:08:08,818 Activist: -We go over there and you do this one?

00:08:13,838 VO: -Elisabetta Marchesini and Thomas Bruchez, both 25, are the youngest of the list. The latter is also vice-president of the Socialist Youth and member of the group for a Switzerland without an army. The two comrades hold the same view: by accepting re-exportation, the party betrays its values.

00:08:41,033 Elisabetta: -The SP has found itself in an embarrassing situation. We have to choose between giving in to the right and taking a complicated position on the left and do what they did.

00:08:53,962 Thomas: -There is a form of naivety. "As long as the aggression lasts, we send in the guns." But these weapons don't disappear, they will stay in place and change hands. Switzerland could do much more by freezing the assets of Russian oligarchs. Only 8 billion have been frozen of the 200 billion of the oligarchs.

00:09:21,580 Elisabetta: -When we see that some members of parliament to give in to the right wing and accept the re-export of weapons to Ukraine, we, as socialists, of the left, we are speechless.

00:09:40,164 VO: -The question of military support to Ukraine is causing the left to waver. But the most spectacular reversal the most spectacular one, it is in these ranks that we find it. At the UDC assembly, while the initiative is being signed to anchor neutrality in the Constitution, it is rumored that some delegates want to allow re-exportation to support the Swiss industry. And this is precisely a proposal on the table, that of the PLR: change the law on war material to allow re-exports.

10’14 PLR logo

00:10:20,436 VO: -And if the motion of President Thierry Burkart appeals to the right, it is because the commercial threats are there. In Davos, the German Finance Minister got straight to the point.

00:10:32,830 Christian: -Switzerland is a sovereign country. We respect the Confederation, but when you make such decisions, you also have to accept that one's partners and friends choose other suppliers, including for armament.

10’38 Christian Lindner, German Finance minister

00:10:50,940 VO: -In Zurich, the factory that produces the ammunition for the Guepard belongs to the Rheinmetall group. It has just announced that it will produce them from now on in Germany. And that's potentially 4,000 jobs lost. This is enough to wake up the gun lobby. Should we create an emergency law to support the Ukraine or should we change the law to secure the future of the Swiss armament? This Friday, our five members are back from the visit. The question is on the agenda of the meeting. At 5pm the PLR Thierry Burkart happily leaves the premises. Charles Juillard, on the other hand, looks like he's having a bad day. The commission has dismissed the idea of a of a Lex Ukraine.

00:11:49,970 Charles: -It was a long day that didn't go the way I wanted as I wanted it to.

00:11:57,820 VO: -The commission tabled a parliamentary initiative to authorize re-export to countries that have a regime similar to ours. The Ukrainian question is shelved, neutrality preserved.

00:12:10,540 Charles: -On the NATO side, the result may be not be what they expected. Our interlocutors in Brussels have always said understand our neutrality, but also be in expectation of the decision that we are going to make on the re-export of material. Which was quite a strong call to tell us to make this effort of solidarity with them.

12’21 Charles Juillard, State councillor (Ju/Le Centre)

00:12:36,737 VO: -At the end of this crazy week, the Swiss armament industry can feed the hope that at the end of the debates, it will be easier to export its weapons. But in the meantime, the hope of Ukraine, will rely on humanitarian aid from Switzerland and not military aid from Switzerland.