00;00;02;18 - 00;00;03;11

Director: Sing me a little

 

00;00;03;11 - 00;00;06;11

bit of your favorite song to sing.

 

00;00;06;14 - 00;00;10;04

Henry: (On wonderful day like today...)

 

00;00;10;22 - 00;00;14;17

(I defy any clouds to appear in the sky...)

 

00;00;15;05 - 00;00;16;18

(dare any raindrops to plop in my eye...)

[Cross-fade to recording of “A Wonderful Day Like Today”]

 

00;00;16;18 - 00;00;19;18

(...to plop in my eye...)

 

00;00;21;05 - 00;00;24;05

(On a wonderful morning like this)

 

00;00;25;07 - 00;00;29;03

(When the sun is as big as a yellow balloon)

 

00;00;29;03 - 00;00;32;05

(Even the sparrows are singing in tune)

 

00;00;32;05 - 00;00;36;21

(On a wonderful morning like this...)

[Cross-fade to recruits and drill instructors shouting]

 

00;01;04;28 - 00;01;07;04

(A wonderful day like today...)

 

00;01;07;04 - 00;01;10;04

And so on.

 

00;01;19;08 - 00;01;22;07

Daddy

didn't talk a lot about the Marine Corps.

 

00;01;22;07 - 00;01;26;27

When he started talking

about their experiences,

 

00;01;27;23 - 00;01;31;15

I thought,

“Oh my goodness, I knew he was strong.

 

00;01;31;16 - 00;01;33;15

I knew he had principles.

 

00;01;33;15 - 00;01;36;15

But that took it

to a whole different level.”

 

00;01;41;16 - 00;01;42;10

You ready?

 

00;01;42;10 - 00;01;42;24

Director: Yes, sir.

 

00;01;47;22 - 00;01;50;22

Carroll William Braxton

 

00;01;51;27 - 00;01;54;27

was born in Manassas, Virginia,

 

00;01;55;19 - 00;01;58;18

in 1924.

 

00;01;59;13 - 00;02;01;17

Director: Why did you join the Marine Corps?

 

00;02;01;17 - 00;02;03;11

It was just something different.

 

00;02;07;10 - 00;02;10;01

Present...ARMS!

 

00;02;13;04 - 00;02;17;02

Company sound off by number, squad one

 

00;02;17;13 - 00;02;18;10

ONE

 

00;02;21;10 - 00;02;22;27

Atten...HUT!

 

00;02;28;28 - 00;02;33;03

African-Americans have had a history of service to this country,

 

00;02;33;10 - 00;02;35;17

even before it was a country.

 

00;02;36;04 - 00;02;39;03

On the fifth of March, 1770, we know it as the Boston Massacre,

 

00;02;39;10 - 00;02;42;09

Where Americans, I don’t know if we were called Americans, but still

 

00;02;42;09 - 00;02;44;09

British subjects stood up for their rights,

 

00;02;44;25 - 00;02;46;18

and rebelled in Boston

 

00;02;46;18 - 00;02;50;03

and some of the British troops shot

and killed some Americans.

 

00;02;50;15 - 00;02;53;15

And the first one to fall was a gentleman

named Crispus Attucks.

 

00;02;54;16 - 00;02;57;16

He was an African-American. He was a free man.

 

00;03;04;11 - 00;03;05;19

So, during the Revolutionary War,

 

00;03;05;19 - 00;03;07;06

Blacks served on both sides.

 

00;03;07;06 - 00;03;09;01

They were promised

their freedoms by the British,

 

00;03;09;01 - 00;03;11;18

and they was promised

almost nothing by the Americans,

 

00;03;11;18 - 00;03;12;22

but they served on both sides,

 

00;03;12;22 - 00;03;16;17

and some served in what was later

known as the Continental Marines.

 

00;03;17;10 - 00;03;19;27

So there's a history of Blacks

serving in the Marine Corps.

 

00;03;19;27 - 00;03;24;03

when the Marine Corps first started.

It kind of started and ended there,

 

00;03;24;21 - 00;03;29;09

because after we won our our freedom,

if you will, from the British,

 

00;03;29;12 - 00;03;31;03

Blacks weren't allowed to come in the Marine Corps,

 

00;03;31;03 - 00;03;36;09

but in the Civil War, Blacks and freedmen served in World War One.

 

00;03;36;10 - 00;03;39;10

Of course, they served in France under General Pershing.

 

00;03;39;12 - 00;03;42;04

The 469th, the Hellfighters...

 

00;03;43;25 - 00;03;44;25

but Blacks still never served in

 

00;03;50;07 - 00;03;52;18

the Marine Corps, from its inception,

 

00;03;52;18 - 00;03;56;00

has always been an elite

and very small organization.

 

00;03;56;15 - 00;03;59;05

They pictured themselves

as being the elite of the elite.

 

00;03;59;05 - 00;04;02;12

And sometimes we think we are,

and it's their club.  White Marines,

 

00;04;02;28 - 00;04;05;27

and they wanted to regulate their club

with people who look like them.

 

00;04;22;14 - 00;04;24;28

They didn't like Italians

being in the Marine Corps.

 

00;04;24;28 - 00;04;25;26

It was that bad.

 

00;04;34;14 - 00;04;37;04

When I was a youngster,

 

00;04;37;04 - 00;04;39;13

I didn't really know exactly

 

00;04;39;13 - 00;04;43;13

at the time the Marines would come to Manassas, Virginia,

 

00;04;43;13 - 00;04;46;29

that’s the closest town from the base at Quantico.

 

00;04;47;12 - 00;04;51;01

So they would come to Manassas on liberty.

 

00;04;51;02 - 00;04;54;28

See, I was on the farm

and we would come into Manassas

 

00;04;55;11 - 00;04;58;11

on Saturday, as a little fella

 

00;04;58;13 - 00;05;01;11

to get ice cream, nickel a cone,

 

00;05;02;15 - 00;05;04;10

and just mess around and walk around

 

00;05;04;10 - 00;05;07;11

and run around while our parents shopped a little bit.

 

00;05;09;26 - 00;05;13;12

You could just see the Marines, how they looked,

 

00;05;13;20 - 00;05;16;20

and how they dressed.

 

00;05;20;12 - 00;05;21;20

See, I grew up

 

00;05;22;06 - 00;05;25;20

kind of on the farm,

and then we had a small piece of land--

 

00;05;25;20 - 00;05;29;05

my parents, and we lived in the neighborhood.

 

00;05;29;21 - 00;05;32;21

And that’s called Corcoran Row.

 

00;05;33;00 - 00;05;34;27

And see there was White

 

00;05;34;27 - 00;05;37;27

and Black in this neighborhood.

 

00;05;38;01 - 00;05;41;25

We played together, we worked together.

 

00;05;41;25 - 00;05;44;25

The only thing you could tell between us is

 

00;05;45;06 - 00;05;48;26

when they went to their school, we went to our school.

 

00;05;48;26 - 00;05;51;27

See, we had one Black high school

 

00;05;52;06 - 00;05;55;06

that supported four counties.

 

00;05;55;22 - 00;05;59;15

Can you believe that?  Four counties that these kids rode thirty

 

00;05;59;16 - 00;06;02;23

and forty miles a day to come to the high school.

 

00;06;06;12 - 00;06;10;02

So when we graduated from high school, the third of May,

 

00;06;10;27 - 00;06;14;27

we had a couple of days

to mess around home, and they had papers

 

00;06;14;27 - 00;06;19;24

for us to leave Manassas,

to go to Alexandria to catch a train.

 

00;06;20;11 - 00;06;23;11

And then from Alexandria to North Carolina,

 

00;06;23;14 - 00;06;26;13

and there was a bus to pick us up

 

00;06;26;13 - 00;06;29;13

to take us to Montford Point.

 

00;06;31;26 - 00;06;33;12

During the past year,

 

00;06;33;12 - 00;06;36;11

Negroes came into the Corps

for the first time.

 

00;06;36;27 - 00;06;39;09

At Montford Point, Camp Lejeune,

 

00;06;39;09 - 00;06;43;14

they are receiving a complete and thorough course in combat training.

 

00;06;46;15 - 00;06;47;16

Well, the reason

 

00;06;47;16 - 00;06;50;13

that Montford Pointers existed at all

 

00;06;50;13 - 00;06;54;22

is because an executive order

was signed by Franklin Delano Roosevelt.

 

00;06;55;00 - 00;06;56;26

He signed it in June of 1941,

 

00;06;56;26 - 00;06;59;26

which forbade discrimination in the Department of Defense.

 

00;07;00;29 - 00;07;04;21

The Commandant of the Marine Corps at the time,

Thomas Holcomb, said

 

00;07;04;21 - 00;07;08;08

these Blacks are trying to

break into a club that does not want them.

 

00;07;08;14 - 00;07;10;28

And he ignored the executive

order for close to a year.

 

00;07;12;03 - 00;07;12;22

He was asked a

 

00;07;12;22 - 00;07;16;10

question if it was a choice of 250,000

 

00;07;16;22 - 00;07;21;00

African-American Marines or 5000 Whites,

what would you prefer?

 

00;07;21;14 - 00;07;23;28

His answer I'd rather have the whites.

 

00;07;23;28 - 00;07;28;20

You got to be a pretty racist son of a gun

not to want a quarter million troops

 

00;07;29;00 - 00;07;32;19

when you know the country is on the verge

of going to war.

 

00;07;33;14 - 00;07;37;10

On December 7th, 1941, Japan, like its infamous

 

00;07;37;10 - 00;07;40;25

Axis partners, struck first and declared war afterwards.

 

00;07;41;20 - 00;07;45;22

Costly to our Navy, was the loss of war vessels, airplanes and equipment.

 

00;07;45;28 - 00;07;48;27

But more costly to Japan was the effectiveness

 

00;07;48;27 - 00;07;53;02

of its foul attack in immediately

unifying America in its determination

 

00;07;53;02 - 00;07;56;07

to fight and win the war thrust upon it,

and to win

 

00;07;56;07 - 00;07;59;07

the peace that will follow.

 

00;08;15;01 - 00;08;17;21

Every Marine is a rifleman.

 

00;08;19;14 - 00;08;21;01

That's your beginning.

 

00;08;21;01 - 00;08;24;29

What you came in there with, or what you did before you got in there?

 

00;08;25;07 - 00;08;28;17

Well, every Marine, the first is a rifleman.

 

00;08;28;27 - 00;08;33;25

Once you get out of the boot camp,

you are qualified to be in combat.

 

00;08;34;15 - 00;08;37;22

But now that the Marine Corps

kind of knew that they had to accept

 

00;08;37;22 - 00;08;41;05

this Marine of a different color,

they didn't know where to train them.

 

00;08;41;23 - 00;08;44;27

So they bought a tract of land about eight

or nine miles from Camp Lejeune

 

00;08;45;05 - 00;08;46;22

called Montford Point.

 

00;08;46;22 - 00;08;49;04

Never heard of Montford in my life.

 

00;08;49;04 - 00;08;51;07

Didn't even know where we were going, really.

 

00;08;51;07 - 00;08;54;13

Only thing that hit my mind was Jacksonville.

 

00;08;55;00 - 00;08;59;08

And when that Jacksonville hit my mind, I thought it was

Jacksonville, Florida.

 

00;08;59;20 - 00;09;01;24

I didn’t think it was Jacksonville,

North Carolina.

 

00;09;01;24 - 00;09;03;15

Because I never heard of it, Jacksonville, North Carolina.

 

00;09;03;15 - 00;09;06;06

For the Northerners, it was a shock as there was discrimination

 

00;09;06;06 - 00;09;10;07

all over the country,

but it wasn't as overt and visual

 

00;09;10;07 - 00;09;11;13

as it was in the South

 

00;09;11;13 - 00;09;14;24

when they saw the signs, you know, “Colored

Only” or the train was stopped

 

00;09;14;24 - 00;09;18;13

in some place like Wilson, North Carolina,

and they couldn't get a sandwich.

 

00;09;18;22 - 00;09;20;07

And if they could, they had to go to the back

 

00;09;20;07 - 00;09;22;16

because they had a little window

in the back

 

00;09;22;16 - 00;09;24;29

that the Coloreds had to go to, to get a sandwich, to go.

 

00;09;28;07 - 00;09;29;13

Another major problem in

 

00;09;29;13 - 00;09;32;21

today's South is one which began

when her freed slaves

 

00;09;32;21 - 00;09;35;21

were suddenly faced with the problem

of becoming self-sustaining.

 

00;09;36;18 - 00;09;39;18

Today in America’s South

are almost nine million Negroes,

 

00;09;39;29 - 00;09;42;29

for the most part,

still economically insecure.

 

00;09;43;06 - 00;09;46;29

The greatest struggle of the Negro

has been against the ravages of disease,

 

00;09;47;18 - 00;09;50;08

due to the conditions of poverty in which he lives.

 

00;09;50;08 - 00;09;53;07

The incidence of social

and other communicable diseases

 

00;09;53;07 - 00;09;56;07

is high.

 

00;09;57;17 - 00;09;58;16

A familiar sight

 

00;09;58;16 - 00;10;02;04

the length and breadth of Dixie, is the rural Negro and the shack,

 

00;10;02;04 - 00;10;05;04

which is his home.

 

00;10;06;03 - 00;10;09;03

To many a family, whose pleasures are few and primitive,

 

00;10;09;09 - 00;10;12;01

there is no greater occasion than Sunday meeting,

 

00;10;12;01 - 00;10;15;02

no greater pleasure than dressing up

in going to meeting clothes

 

00;10;15;22 - 00;10;19;15

while the rural Negro lives in the faith

that no matter what his lot on Earth,

 

00;10;19;28 - 00;10;21;07

there is a better life ahead.

 

00;10;26;11 - 00;10;28;13

So they got a rude awakening.

 

00;10;28;13 - 00;10;32;28

Many of these Blacks did not know

they was going to a segregated facility.

 

00;10;33;12 - 00;10;36;23

Some of them got on the train

thinking they were going to boot camp,

 

00;10;36;23 - 00;10;39;07

and nobody told them specifically

where it was.

 

00;10;39;07 - 00;10;41;23

They assumed it was Parris Island,

 

00;10;41;23 - 00;10;42;26

and now I'm looking around.

 

00;10;42;26 - 00;10;45;26

It's mainly black recruits on this train,

 

00;10;46;05 - 00;10;48;13

and I don't know

if it really hit them then,

 

00;10;48;13 - 00;10;51;14

but when they got off the bus

at Montford Point camp, it hit them then.

 

00;10;52;06 - 00;10;56;01

Because they were greeted pretty much like we're greeted now,

 

00;10;56;01 - 00;10;59;03

but with a lot more vigor and animosity.

 

00;11;01;08 - 00;11;04;08

Bus picked all of us up

 

00;11;04;20 - 00;11;07;15

and when we got to

 

00;11;07;15 - 00;11;12;06

Montford Point at the main gate,

so I looked out of the bus,

 

00;11;12;24 - 00;11;17;15

and there was... it looked like there were about three MPs.

Three big, tall, White MPs.

 

00;11;18;26 - 00;11;21;26

And the first word I heard was:

 

00;11;22;09 - 00;11;25;09

“You, N-word, get off the bus.”

 

00;11;35;12 - 00;11;35;25

(Nothing)

 

00;11;35;25 - 00;11;36;28

(could be finer)

 

00;11;36;28 - 00;11;42;06

(than being in Carolina in the morning)

 

00;11;43;08 - 00;11;46;24

I believe they chose that place because the land was available,

 

00;11;46;24 - 00;11;50;12

it was close to a base, and it was away from

Parris Island and San Diego,

 

00;11;50;19 - 00;11;54;13

and they could pretty much train

African-Americans, Blacks, Coloreds, Negroes,

 

00;11;54;13 - 00;11;58;03

whatever we will call it, in 1941,

without a whole bunch of fanfare and press.

 

00;11;58;03 - 00;12;02;03

Montford Point, that strip of land was really a camp for

 

00;12;02;03 - 00;12;03;10

World War One.

 

00;12;03;10 - 00;12;07;19

So, very little facilities and whatever was there, was dilapidated.

 

00;12;07;19 - 00;12;10;19

It was nothing in any kind of working condition.

 

00;12;11;15 - 00;12;13;14

So it was tough going down there.

 

00;12;13;14 - 00;12;16;29

So the first Marines that arrived there

in August of 1942,

 

00;12;17;19 - 00;12;20;26

it was pretty barren land

and it was covered with trees

 

00;12;20;26 - 00;12;23;04

and they had to literally cut down

the trees,

 

00;12;23;04 - 00;12;26;28

establish a fresh water supply,

erect some very temporary,

 

00;12;26;28 - 00;12;29;14

and I would put emphasis on temporary, quarters,

 

00;12;29;14 - 00;12;32;02

but they were no more than tents or huts.

 

00;12;32;02 - 00;12;33;01

It was hot.

 

00;12;33;01 - 00;12;38;21

It was in the summertime, and they were just ordinary shacks.

 

00;12;39;02 - 00;12;42;08

And if it rained outside, it rained inside.

 

00;12;43;12 - 00;12;44;19

And there was a swamp.

 

00;12;44;19 - 00;12;48;00

We were right on the swamp, and rats,

 

00;12;48;00 - 00;12;51;00

and snakes all around wherever.

 

00;12;51;18 - 00;12;55;03

And there was no air conditioning in 1941, at least not in the

Marine Corps.

 

00;12;55;26 - 00;12;58;13

And so these are the conditions they had to bear

 

00;12;58;13 - 00;13;01;12

as far as the environment.

 

00;13;01;12 - 00;13;04;10

Now, add the fact that they're being trained by all White officers

 

00;13;04;10 - 00;13;06;27

and White enlisted people who did not want to be there.

 

00;13;07;14 - 00;13;10;24

Many White officers at the time, felt that if they were assigned to a Black unit,

 

00;13;11;02 - 00;13;14;02

they would be blackballed as being

 

00;13;15;26 - 00;13;17;18

a nigger lover, simple as that.

 

00;13;17;18 - 00;13;19;28

They didn't volunteer for that training.

 

00;13;19;28 - 00;13;22;28

They were assigned that training.

 

00;13;23;03 - 00;13;25;14

You’ve got to remember this is 1941,

 

00;13;25;14 - 00;13;28;13

we’re, what, 60 years removed from the Civil War,

 

00;13;28;13 - 00;13;32;03

and Jim Crow still ran King in the South.

 

00;13;32;03 - 00;13;34;24

And they was going to train these Marines in the South,

 

00;13;34;24 - 00;13;37;10

(Nothing could be finer than to be)

 

00;13;37;10 - 00;13;42;16

(in Carolina)

 

00;13;42;16 - 00;13;47;19

(in the morning)

 

00;13;49;17 - 00;13;55;00

The treatment was new to me

 

00;13;55;28 - 00;14;00;02

because of once

we got in camp and started training,

 

00;14;01;16 - 00;14;03;10

that's all we heard,

 

00;14;03;10 - 00;14;06;23

and all you were told was the N-word.

 

00;14;08;15 - 00;14;12;17

And the abuse they did with some of the recruits.

 

00;14;13;19 - 00;14;17;02

And see, we have drill instructors for each side, and one in the back.

 

00;14;18;03 - 00;14;20;03

It's almost impossible

 

00;14;20;03 - 00;14;23;21

for every weapon to be direct in order,

 

00;14;24;25 - 00;14;27;25

And the drill instructor would be like on the side.

 

00;14;28;12 - 00;14;31;06

And if he would walk down the line and see

 

00;14;31;06 - 00;14;35;05

one of those rifles out of line, you hear the barrel

 

00;14;35;05 - 00;14;37;18

of that weapon would be up by your ear.

 

00;14;37;18 - 00;14;43;05

And they would just walk by, hit to that barrel upside your ear and blood, whatever,

 

00;14;43;05 - 00;14;46;28

come out, it didn't make any difference,

because every day, as you know,

 

00;14;47;08 - 00;14;51;15

they would inspect when you fall out in your platoon,

and they would inspect.

 

00;14;52;00 - 00;14;56;18

It was all sand everywhere.

If they just found just one little speck

 

00;14;57;22 - 00;14;58;25

of sand,

 

00;14;58;25 - 00;15;03;06

they’d make you get out of line,

and get down on your hands and knees,

 

00;15;03;06 - 00;15;07;07

with your nose, and scoop in that sand.

 

00;15;08;29 - 00;15;11;18

There was a lot of conflict there. At the North,

 

00;15;11;18 - 00;15;13;11

this was 1940s,

 

00;15;13;11 - 00;15;15;18

some of the races start to intermingle,

 

00;15;15;18 - 00;15;19;05

and the complexion

started to change and [get] lighter.

 

00;15;19;05 - 00;15;20;26

And in the South, they were still separate,

 

00;15;20;26 - 00;15;24;00

so they kept a lot of the African features.

 

00;15;24;15 - 00;15;29;02

So in 1941, if you were too light, and I was too dark,

 

00;15;29;03 - 00;15;32;26

there was friction before we even said

a word, but amongst the drill instructors,

 

00;15;33;09 - 00;15;35;02

it was equal opportunity brutality.

 

00;15;35;02 - 00;15;37;04

They didn't give a damn what you looked like.

 

00;15;37;04 - 00;15;38;26

You just were Black.

 

00;15;38;26 - 00;15;41;01

Director: And how were you treated?

 

00;15;41;01 - 00;15;44;01

I think they really wanted us to fail

 

00;15;44;18 - 00;15;47;18

because they didn't want Blacks in the Marine Corps.

 

00;15;48;11 - 00;15;49;27

Director: Tell me about the training.

 

00;15;49;27 - 00;15;51;06

What was it like?

 

00;15;51;06 - 00;15;52;12

Well, you see all of them

 

00;15;52;12 - 00;15;53;20

they wasn't my age.

 

00;15;54;28 - 00;15;55;25

At that time,

 

00;15;55;25 - 00;15;59;28

the draft was from 18 to 45.

 

00;16;01;12 - 00;16;04;22

And some of these men came in

 

00;16;04;29 - 00;16;07;29

through the Selective Service.

 

00;16;09;06 - 00;16;13;01

The wives had a lot to do with it.

Some of them

 

00;16;14;01 - 00;16;17;01

maybe had separated from their wives.

 

00;16;17;20 - 00;16;21;21

And when these women outside found out that these men,

 

00;16;22;10 - 00;16;26;04

if they were put in the service, they could get an allotment.

 

00;16;27;00 - 00;16;30;03

And that's what happened during that time.

 

00;16;30;03 - 00;16;33;03

A lot of men were actually put in to service

 

00;16;33;16 - 00;16;36;09

just for these ladies to get that allotment.

 

00;16;36;09 - 00;16;40;00

So, see, I had men they were almost old enough to be my father.

 

00;16;40;09 - 00;16;44;09

I was just eight, just turned 18

and some of them were up in the thirties

 

00;16;44;09 - 00;16;45;14

and forties.

 

00;16;45;14 - 00;16;48;14

So it was kind of tough for the older men.

 

00;16;48;17 - 00;16;49;24

You still had to come down on ‘em hard.

 

00;16;49;24 - 00;16;51;13

This is boot camp, by the way.

 

00;16;51;13 - 00;16;52;29

This is Marine Corps boot camp.

 

00;16;52;29 - 00;16;55;16

This is Marine Corps boot camp in World War II.

 

00;16;55;16 - 00;16;56;13

It's no cakewalk,

 

00;16;57;20 - 00;16;58;11

but some

 

00;16;58;11 - 00;17;01;17

of the enlisted took extra pleasure in the power they held.

 

00;17;01;17 - 00;17;06;04

How many were from the South and was only really

 

00;17;06;27 - 00;17;11;00

two generations, maybe, removed from their grandfather

 

00;17;11;06 - 00;17;14;10

owning people that they were trying to train at the time?

 

00;17;14;22 - 00;17;17;27

And they grew up in an environment, that was their socialization process.

 

00;17;18;09 - 00;17;22;04

“If it weren’t for one of you people, my grandpappy’s plantation would still be alive,

 

00;17;22;04 - 00;17;23;11

but he went to go fight,

 

00;17;23;11 - 00;17;26;10

and got killed and we lost everything

because of you people.”

 

00;17;26;10 - 00;17;29;18

And so those were the people who were

training these African-American Marines.

 

00;17;29;27 - 00;17;32;26

So you can only imagine the brutality

that they suffered

 

00;17;33;16 - 00;17;36;14

because of that.

 

00;17;36;14 - 00;17;40;02

My face was all beat up from mosquito

bites.

 

00;17;40;22 - 00;17;43;22

The drill instructor

would take us right by the swamps,

 

00;17;43;29 - 00;17;47;07

just about dusk to dawn, and make us stand at attention.

 

00;17;50;03 - 00;17;53;02

So the drill instructor would say,

 

00;17;53;15 - 00;17;54;27

Did you eat?

 

00;17;54;27 - 00;17;57;27

So we’d say: “Yes, sir,” like ‘you’re crazy,’

 

00;17;58;09 - 00;18;02;07

and he’d say, “Let the mosquitoes eat.”

 

00;18;03;01 - 00;18;06;17

And we’re just standing there.

All you can do is scrunch your nose, whatever.

 

00;18;09;22 - 00;18;11;12

Time for furloughs.

 

00;18;13;01 - 00;18;16;09

Some of the guys that lived out in the cities,

or wherever they came from...

 

00;18;16;27 - 00;18;19;00

We were just messed up, I’ll put it that way.

 

00;18;19;00 - 00;18;21;29

They’d say, “Man, I can't go on like this.”

 

00;18;21;29 - 00;18;24;29

And see, they had made us,

 

00;18;25;11 - 00;18;29;23

I guess at the Point,

we were so ornery, so evil.

 

00;18;30;07 - 00;18;33;27

Some of the guys said, “Look, if my mother said something wrong,

 

00;18;33;27 - 00;18;36;05

I might even curse my mother!”

 

00;18;36;05 - 00;18;38;28

I said, “Well, that's up to you.”

 

00;18;38;28 - 00;18;42;13

I‚Äôm going home.  I‚Äôm taking my eight days,

because I might not ever get home.

 

00;18;42;21 - 00;18;44;10

So I took my eight days

 

00;18;45;11 - 00;18;47;27

and I went home.

 

00;18;47;27 - 00;18;50;16

Of course, my mother was there, and I walked in the house,

 

00;18;50;16 - 00;18;54;21

and she looked at me, and she looked at me,

and I said, “Mom what’s the matter?”

 

00;18;55;05 - 00;18;56;21

She said, “Well, look at you.

 

00;18;56;21 - 00;18;59;03

You- you really got the smallpox!”

 

00;18;59;03 - 00;19;01;08

I said, “No, mom, that's not smallpox.”

 

00;19;01;08 - 00;19;02;26

I said, “It’s mosquito bites.”

 

00;19;06;07 - 00;19;09;07

During the boot camp training,

 

00;19;10;17 - 00;19;13;17

We decided that we need to talk

 

00;19;14;15 - 00;19;17;05

because we were truly...we need to talk.

 

00;19;17;05 - 00;19;20;29

So we had a little conversation between the group of us.

 

00;19;21;05 - 00;19;21;25

We were--

 

00;19;21;25 - 00;19;24;21

We just didn't know what the outcome was going to be.

 

00;19;24;21 - 00;19;27;21

So that's why we decided to have a conversation.

 

00;19;27;28 - 00;19;31;02

And we did say that the Tuskegee Airmen made it,

 

00;19;32;21 - 00;19;35;20

the Buffalo Soldiers made it,

 

00;19;35;27 - 00;19;38;27

and some of our slaves made it, across that water.

 

00;19;39;16 - 00;19;42;13

And we can make it too. And other than death,

 

00;19;42;13 - 00;19;43;26

we're going to make it.

 

00;19;43;26 - 00;19;47;07

Because we got at the point we didn’t know what was going to happen to us.

 

00;19;48;08 - 00;19;50;00

And because they had told us

 

00;19;50;00 - 00;19;53;08

time and time again, “We didn't want you.”

 

00;19;54;12 - 00;19;56;21

“This is a White man's outfit.”

 

00;19;56;21 - 00;19;59;21

“You will never make it in the Marine Corps.”

 

00;20;01;29 - 00;20;05;03

Yeah. But as far as I can sit right here and tell you

 

00;20;05;03 - 00;20;09;21

today, as bad as we were treated, I don't remember anybody quittin’.

 

00;20;10;14 - 00;20;14;04

That was our determination, to make sure

 

00;20;14;06 - 00;20;17;08

that they said they didn't want us, we couldn't make it.

 

00;20;17;20 - 00;20;19;22

We were going to make sure that we did make it.

 

00;20;19;22 - 00;20;20;26

Regardless

 

00;20;21;15 - 00;20;26;00

I...can’t (heavy breathing) I can’t!

 

00;20;28;17 - 00;20;31;01

from the inception of Montford Point camp,

 

00;20;31;01 - 00;20;34;01

all the drill instructors were White,

all the officers were White.

 

00;20;34;10 - 00;20;36;18

Everybody in charge of anything was White.

 

00;20;36;18 - 00;20;39;12

But the Marine Corps realized

sooner or later,

 

00;20;39;12 - 00;20;42;24

if we accept Blacks long enough, they're going to be promoted.

 

00;20;42;29 - 00;20;45;03

They're going to be put in positions of leadership.

 

00;20;45;03 - 00;20;49;04

So why not have it structured and planned,

instead of us being surprised by it?

 

00;20;49;06 - 00;20;50;16

They moved us from

 

00;20;51;21 - 00;20;53;16

Montford Point,

 

00;20;53;16 - 00;20;57;26

across the little creek to a little place called Camp Knox.

 

00;20;58;03 - 00;21;00;12

So we were all over there,

so we were wondering something.

 

00;21;00;12 - 00;21;03;04

What's going on? Why are we over here?

 

00;21;03;04 - 00;21;06;18

And so we were all in formation, and this colonel came up.

 

00;21;07;12 - 00;21;10;12

He started calling names.

 

00;21;10;16 - 00;21;11;29

So, that was another mystery.

 

00;21;11;29 - 00;21;14;06

Why he was calling names, we didn't know.

 

00;21;14;06 - 00;21;16;13

He says:

 

00;21;16;13 - 00;21;18;27

“I know you’re wondering why your names were called.”

 

00;21;18;27 - 00;21;20;29

So, “Yes, sir.”

 

00;21;20;29 - 00;21;23;29

He said, “Now, you were picked to be drill instructors.”

 

00;21;26;06 - 00;21;29;06

And then, my heart leapt and just fell.

 

00;21;29;19 - 00;21;34;22

I said, “No way I, me myself could be a drill instructor

 

00;21;34;22 - 00;21;37;19

to treat another man the way they treated me.”

 

00;21;37;19 - 00;21;40;26

So he talked a little bit

and he says, “Now, is there anybody in here

 

00;21;41;01 - 00;21;43;00

that don't want to be a drill instructor?”

 

00;21;44;01 - 00;21;45;14

I believe all hands went up.

 

00;21;45;14 - 00;21;48;14

I can't say for sure, but I believe all hands went up.

 

00;21;48;19 - 00;21;50;28

He said, “Well, you might as well put them down.”

 

00;21;50;28 - 00;21;56;02

He said, “You were picked to be drill instructors and you will be. So-and-so

 

00;21;56;02 - 00;21;59;02

good drill instructor.”

 

00;21;59;10 - 00;22;02;09

And I guess it could have been my

 

00;22;02;09 - 00;22;03;15

raising.

 

00;22;03;15 - 00;22;07;00

And the biggest thing was in my mind, even today,

 

00;22;08;04 - 00;22;11;20

to treat another human being the way you want to be treated.

 

00;22;12;13 - 00;22;17;17

And I just figured that the military had something a little different

 

00;22;18;07 - 00;22;22;22

for me that I didn't want or had never done before.

 

00;22;23;15 - 00;22;26;16

And I figured, well, I’m going to try to do it regardless.

 

00;22;28;03 - 00;22;31;03

My only thought was, at that time,

 

00;22;31;15 - 00;22;36;12

to make sure the everybody that I have as a recruit

 

00;22;37;05 - 00;22;40;19

that he’s in physical condition and knows his weapons.

 

00;22;41;17 - 00;22;45;00

But all this other stuff, I wasn't interested in.

 

00;22;45;25 - 00;22;50;20

The only thing that bothered me was here I am, just a kid,

 

00;22;51;10 - 00;22;55;03

18 years old, and then these men was there,

 

00;22;56;04 - 00;22;59;04

thirties and forties almost old enough to be my father.

 

00;22;59;19 - 00;23;03;02

If you recruit everybody out of boot camp,

 

00;23;03;02 - 00;23;06;08

regardless if he’s a private or whatever, you got to say,

“Yes, sir.”

 

00;23;07;14 - 00;23;08;18

And that's what happened.

 

00;23;08;18 - 00;23;12;00

And we had the authority

 

00;23;12;04 - 00;23;17;09

at that time, that if you looked at a man that was in his

thirties or forties,

 

00;23;18;01 - 00;23;21;01

that you didn't think he would make it.

 

00;23;21;08 - 00;23;24;13

We had authority to fill out a form,

 

00;23;25;05 - 00;23;28;05

and make sure he was discharged.

 

00;23;28;09 - 00;23;31;17

And I thought that was

I guess that was one of the good things

 

00;23;31;28 - 00;23;34;28

that I thought about the Marine Corps at that time.

 

00;23;36;22 - 00;23;39;15

Some of the Black drill instructors,

 

00;23;39;15 - 00;23;42;15

as we went to the old NCO leadership school,

 

00;23;43;10 - 00;23;46;10

some of them turned out to be

 

00;23;46;10 - 00;23;50;23

as bad, maybe worse, than some of the White drill instructors,

 

00;23;50;23 - 00;23;55;08

maybe not as mean-spirited as the White, but

they were doing it to better the recruits.

 

00;23;55;20 - 00;23;58;26

While I believe the White drill instructors

were doing it to keep the recruits down.

 

00;23;58;26 - 00;24;00;07

So that's the difference.

 

00;24;02;09 - 00;24;04;03

Two men

 

00;24;04;03 - 00;24;06;05

came to me one day

 

00;24;06;05 - 00;24;09;05

and they started talking and said, “Sir,”

 

00;24;10;03 - 00;24;13;02

said, “we left home

 

00;24;13;06 - 00;24;15;25

and we didn't even know

where we were going.”

 

00;24;15;25 - 00;24;18;12

I told them, “What do you mean, how did you get here?”

 

00;24;18;12 - 00;24;21;12

These two men said the sheriff

 

00;24;21;13 - 00;24;24;19

came out and picked us up and brought us

 

00;24;25;13 - 00;24;28;13

to the train station.

 

00;24;29;02 - 00;24;31;15

And I said, “Well, hell, what about the Marine Corps?”

 

00;24;31;15 - 00;24;34;15

They said, “Sir, we never heard of the Marine Corps.”

 

00;24;34;20 - 00;24;36;12

They said, “We knew about the Army,

 

00;24;36;12 - 00;24;41;01

We knew about the Navy, never heard of the Marine Corps.”

I said, “Well

 

00;24;41;02 - 00;24;44;02

how did all this happen?”

He said, “Sir...”

 

00;24;44;25 - 00;24;46;21

This is going to shock you.

 

00;24;46;21 - 00;24;51;05

1944, early ‘44, he says, “Sir,

 

00;24;51;25 - 00;24;54;25

we were on a plantation in Mississippi.

 

00;24;55;00 - 00;24;58;00

Didn't even know we were free.”

 

00;24;58;11 - 00;25;00;22

‘44!

 

00;25;00;22 - 00;25;05;05

Of course, I couldn't show my sorrow or grief.

 

00;25;05;12 - 00;25;06;14

Almost cried.

 

00;25;07;18 - 00;25;13;26

But every afternoon they had to go to the admin building

 

00;25;13;26 - 00;25;18;15

where they had a little school for them

to learn how to read and write.

 

00;25;18;28 - 00;25;21;28

And they turned out to be good Marines.

 

00;25;29;02 - 00;25;33;04

One afternoon, which was unusual to be called,

 

00;25;33;04 - 00;25;37;10

and then all of a sudden, here comes this long,

 

00;25;37;15 - 00;25;40;15

big convertible limo.

 

00;25;41;20 - 00;25;44;01

President Roosevelt.

 

00;25;44;01 - 00;25;47;01

So when he pulled up and stopped, he said, “Men,

 

00;25;47;03 - 00;25;50;01

I have a short speech to make.”

 

00;25;50;01 - 00;25;53;29

He said, “You men have broken records

 

00;25;54;12 - 00;25;57;12

that the White Marines have had for years.”

 

00;25;57;17 - 00;26;00;14

And he said, “As far as I'm concerned, you

 

00;26;00;14 - 00;26;05;06

just as good as any Marine

that put that uniform on.”

 

00;26;05;20 - 00;26;08;20

“Send them overseas.”

 

00;26;11;26 - 00;26;14;12

America goes to war.

 

00;26;14;12 - 00;26;18;13

Men of the Army, Navy and Marines

reinforce the battlefront on six

 

00;26;18;13 - 00;26;23;00

continents to save the homes and ideals

of free men from Axis domination.

 

00;27;27;06 - 00;27;29;04

So what they did when they

 

00;27;29;04 - 00;27;33;09

would have enough for a platoon to go overseas,

 

00;27;34;08 - 00;27;37;10

they would pick a drill instructor to go with that

 

00;27;37;10 - 00;27;40;15

platoon as ‘Acting Platoon Sergeant.’

 

00;27;41;03 - 00;27;41;26

Acting.

 

00;27;41;26 - 00;27;44;02

No, no rank, just “acting.”

 

00;27;44;02 - 00;27;48;27

So that's how they really started

sending the Black Marines overseas.

 

00;27;50;00 - 00;27;54;27

I was one of those acting platoon leaders that went overseas.

 

00;27;55;23 - 00;27;58;13

Late spring of 1944.

 

00;27;58;27 - 00;28;03;11

Now the Montfort Point Marines were included in the invasion plans

 

00;28;03;27 - 00;28;06;11

because they acquitted themselves pretty good overseas.

 

00;28;06;11 - 00;28;09;14

There were really never tested in battle

because they never had the opportunity

 

00;28;09;23 - 00;28;11;11

to be tested in battle.

 

00;28;11;11 - 00;28;14;11

And when they got overseas,

 

00;28;14;16 - 00;28;17;20

they joined right in combat with those White Marines,

 

00;28;17;20 - 00;28;20;26

and they welcomed them,

I mean, really welcomed them,

 

00;28;21;06 - 00;28;24;01

and they found the Black

 

00;28;24;01 - 00;28;26;21

Marines could do anything that they could do.

 

00;28;33;11 - 00;28;35;27

First, I went to a little island called Banika.

 

00;28;35;27 - 00;28;38;00

Well, that was just a dropping off point.

 

00;28;38;00 - 00;28;39;10

Wasn’t too much.

 

00;28;39;10 - 00;28;42;07

And just little skirmishes here and there,

but it wasn't much.

 

00;28;42;07 - 00;28;45;25

Director: And after Banika, where did you go?

Saipan

Director: What was Saipan like?

 

00;28;46;08 - 00;28;49;08

Hell.

 

00;29;01;12 - 00;29;04;20

So when the landing takes place,

the landing is always, you know, D-Day.

 

00;29;04;26 - 00;29;07;10

And D-Day is usually a departure day.

 

00;29;07;10 - 00;29;10;29

We were going to cross that line of departure. They were including

 

00;29;10;29 - 00;29;14;27

in the D-Day plans to Saipan in June of ‘44.

 

00;29;15;10 - 00;29;20;16

Day and night, you hear fireworks going all day and night.

 

00;29;21;01 - 00;29;24;09

And the biggest thing you can think of, is trying to stay alive.

 

00;29;26;00 - 00;29;26;25

You’re on a ship,

 

00;29;26;25 - 00;29;31;16

and they usually bombed the island

maybe a couple of weeks or so,

 

00;29;32;05 - 00;29;34;01

airplanes and ships,

 

00;29;34;01 - 00;29;37;13

but the Japanese are so dug in

with cement bunkers

 

00;29;38;11 - 00;29;43;04

because evidently, they must have been preparing for war

for years and years before we got there.

 

00;29;43;25 - 00;29;46;01

And that was your biggest problem.

 

00;29;46;01 - 00;29;49;17

And then see, we'd have to get out of these landing barges.

 

00;29;49;17 - 00;29;52;17

And sometimes you wade in the water up to here

 

00;29;53;01 - 00;29;56;06

to get to the island, and they would be just sitting there, waiting.

 

00;30;02;20 - 00;30;04;17

1944 when they landed.

 

00;30;04;17 - 00;30;06;03

The Japanese have already suffered

 

00;30;06;03 - 00;30;09;27

some pretty bad losses and lost some pretty significant bases,

 

00;30;10;06 - 00;30;13;16

and they were determined to hold on to Saipan from day one.

 

00;30;13;16 - 00;30;16;16

So they wanted to stop the Marines at the beach.

 

00;30;17;14 - 00;30;19;13

So this was the first time

 

00;30;19;13 - 00;30;22;13

the Montford Point Marines actually came under fire.

 

00;30;22;13 - 00;30;26;29

Direct fire, not a skirmish, not “I follow some footprints into the jungle

 

00;30;26;29 - 00;30;30;02

because I thought they may have been Japanese.” They’re on line.

 

00;30;30;23 - 00;30;32;17

But on D-Day, the day,

 

00;30;32;17 - 00;30;35;29

and that's the most dangerous day,

the heaviest casualties.

 

00;30;36;13 - 00;30;37;11

And when you think about it,

 

00;30;37;11 - 00;30;40;16

and when they're going aboard, you know, in 15 to 20 waves,

 

00;30;41;00 - 00;30;45;14

and you're on the first wave.

I hate to even think about it.

 

00;30;46;15 - 00;30;48;29

Because these boys, they wanted to prove themselves,

 

00;30;48;29 - 00;30;53;07

But you couldn't dodge them bullets, you know, it’s one of them type of things.

 

00;30;53;07 - 00;30;53;25

So it's...

 

00;30;55;20 - 00;30;57;28

The death smell

 

00;30;57;28 - 00;31;00;10

was the worst smell.

 

00;31;00;10 - 00;31;02;17

And we had to, there was a lot of us,

 

00;31;02;17 - 00;31;05;17

we had to howl in there.

 

00;31;05;19 - 00;31;07;25

Because see, as a Marine,

 

00;31;07;25 - 00;31;11;21

you don't leave anybody behind dead

or wounded.

 

00;31;12;11 - 00;31;15;11

You make sure

that every man is accounted for,

 

00;31;16;10 - 00;31;19;18

and you get that terrible smell,

and that's day and night.

 

00;31;20;15 - 00;31;23;15

You don't get over that.

 

00;31;39;07 - 00;31;42;07

And then you had my buddies

 

00;31;43;05 - 00;31;44;29

destroyed.

 

00;31;44;29 - 00;31;47;29

And that's

 

00;31;48;17 - 00;31;51;17

The Japanese were just waiting,

 

00;31;52;17 - 00;31;57;13

And you-- So, you’re walking and oh, one of your

buddies drops here, one drops over here.

 

00;31;57;13 - 00;31;59;24

From wounds they bought.

 

00;31;59;24 - 00;32;00;05

Yeah.

 

00;32;00;05 - 00;32;03;05

That's, that's enough, that's enough.

 

00;32;07;09 - 00;32;09;29

I've known many of them.

 

00;32;09;29 - 00;32;11;23

One in particular was Ken Rollock.

 

00;32;11;23 - 00;32;15;01

And when asked about his experiences about being a Black Marine

 

00;32;15;10 - 00;32;18;09

in combat, his response was,

 

00;32;18;09 - 00;32;21;08

“I didn't know they were White,

or they didn't know I was Black.

 

00;32;21;08 - 00;32;23;04

They were firing, and I was firing.”

 

00;32;23;04 - 00;32;26;22

And that's when he undergo what we call: ‘baptism under fire.’

 

00;32;27;14 - 00;32;30;00

So you're not worried about race or religion.

 

00;32;30;00 - 00;32;32;25

You know, I'm trying to stay alive

and I'm trying to keep the guy next to me

 

00;32;32;25 - 00;32;35;07

on my flanks alive too.

 

00;32;35;07 - 00;32;35;27

I’ll put it that way.

 

00;32;35;27 - 00;32;37;17

Once overseas,

 

00;32;37;17 - 00;32;44;05

We became one.

Was no Black/White. Was no black bullets, white bullets.

 

00;32;44;09 - 00;32;49;14

If they were the same, in other words, you were just in a complete new country,

 

00;32;49;14 - 00;32;51;18

a new world. I’ll put it that way.

 

00;32;51;18 - 00;32;54;22

We got along fine. I can tell you the time

 

00;32;56;00 - 00;32;58;05

at Montford Point,

 

00;32;58;05 - 00;33;01;07

I just so happened one,

 

00;33;01;11 - 00;33;04;15

I think it was one Saturday, and it was real hot,

 

00;33;06;04 - 00;33;09;04

and we got a chance to get liberty.

 

00;33;09;13 - 00;33;12;09

I had a Windsor tie knot,

 

00;33;12;09 - 00;33;15;09

you know, and we were all in line,

 

00;33;15;09 - 00;33;19;19

and so these White MPs...

So, a couple of them walk up to me

 

00;33;19;19 - 00;33;22;19

as usual, it was always ‘boy’ or something, you know,

 

00;33;23;29 - 00;33;26;29

“Boy what are you doing with that necktie?”

 

00;33;26;29 - 00;33;29;02

And he said: “Get outta that line!”

 

00;33;29;02 - 00;33;32;02

and that time right then and there

 

00;33;32;09 - 00;33;35;09

there was some more White Marines in the back,

 

00;33;36;02 - 00;33;38;07

and they'd been overseas.

 

00;33;38;07 - 00;33;41;00

And when that MP started on me,

 

00;33;41;00 - 00;33;44;03

them White Marines in the back jumped on them MPs.

 

00;33;45;05 - 00;33;47;06

Started calling them names, telling them

 

00;33;47;06 - 00;33;50;04

leave that man alone, leave that Marine alone.

 

00;33;50;04 - 00;33;54;28

In other words, by the time the MPs got back there

 

00;33;54;28 - 00;33;59;21

with these guys, I had got that necktie straightened out

and got on the bus

 

00;34;00;12 - 00;34;04;24

There was another incident:

the bus driver.

 

00;34;04;24 - 00;34;07;24

So all of us in line, we were all mixed up, you know.

 

00;34;08;01 - 00;34;11;14

So the bus drivers talked to one of the Marines up front,

 

00;34;11;14 - 00;34;14;21

and he says, “I can’t let them get on the bus.

 

00;34;16;13 - 00;34;19;01

You gotta let the White Marines get on the bus first.”

 

00;34;19;01 - 00;34;22;01

So this Marine says no.

 

00;34;22;02 - 00;34;24;29

Says, ‚Äúuh-uh.‚Äù  He says ‚Äúwe‚Äôre going to get on the bus

 

00;34;24;29 - 00;34;29;01

just like we in line.”

Said: “Ain’t gonna be no White and Black here.”

 

00;34;29;10 - 00;34;32;01

“These men got to be back to camp, just like

 

00;34;32;01 - 00;34;33;23

I have to be back to camp.”

 

00;34;33;23 - 00;34;35;16

The Marine said, “Are you going to drive the bus?”

 

00;34;35;16 - 00;34;38;16

He said, “No.”

He said, “Well, then give me the keys.”

 

00;34;38;23 - 00;34;40;19

So the Marine got the key.

 

00;34;40;19 - 00;34;45;10

He got the bus started, and he drove us back to Jacksonville and left

 

00;34;45;10 - 00;34;47;15

the bus driver standing there.

 

00;34;47;15 - 00;34;50;15

Thomas Holcomb is now gone, thankfully,

 

00;34;50;18 - 00;34;54;19

and a new guy came in named General

A.A. Vandergrift.

 

00;34;54;22 - 00;34;57;22

Vandergrift was more progressive, if you will.

 

00;34;58;08 - 00;35;01;18

But when he found out

how the Marines performed on Saipan,

 

00;35;02;09 - 00;35;06;20

his words were:

“The Negro Marine is no longer on trial.”

 

00;35;07;08 - 00;35;09;14

They are Marines, period.

 

00;35;09;14 - 00;35;12;13

And that statement really

 

00;35;12;13 - 00;35;15;14

lifted the morale of the Montford Point Marines. Finally!

 

00;35;16;18 - 00;35;21;13

Finally, the Commandant of the Marine Corps understood

what they were doing

 

00;35;21;13 - 00;35;22;23

and recognized it.

 

00;35;28;07 - 00;35;30;04

So that's how we had,

 

00;35;30;04 - 00;35;32;19

well, I might say, integrated

 

00;35;32;19 - 00;35;37;06

from that way back in early ‘43 to ’44,

 

00;35;37;09 - 00;35;40;12

whatever, later to integrate as one.

 

00;35;40;29 - 00;35;44;17

They didn't let nobody mess with us out in the street.

 

00;35;46;13 - 00;35;49;25

And it really started island by island, battle by battle,

 

00;35;50;09 - 00;35;53;19

being more and more accepted in the Marine Corps,

and the Montford Pointer,

 

00;35;53;19 - 00;35;57;14

just like Americans, had a lot of hope

that, you know, well, we done it again.

 

00;35;58;00 - 00;36;00;04

We did it in the Civil War.

 

00;36;00;04 - 00;36;02;02

We did in World War I.

 

00;36;02;02 - 00;36;03;25

We protected this country again.

 

00;36;03;25 - 00;36;05;29

Things are gonna get better.

 

00;36;05;29 - 00;36;07;25

And we all know they didn’t.

 

00;36;07;25 - 00;36;11;16

And that's the heartbreaking part of this story.

Where they can fight,

 

00;36;11;23 - 00;36;14;29

die, bleed, and come back

 

00;36;14;29 - 00;36;17;29

for their country, and they couldn’t get a sandwich in some places

 

00;36;18;09 - 00;36;22;12

or a Pepsi.

And they tell us stories of the trains going cross-country.

 

00;36;22;12 - 00;36;24;23

And back then they had to stop for water.

 

00;36;24;23 - 00;36;27;05

When they stopped for water, you would get off the train

 

00;36;27;05 - 00;36;30;04

to relieve yourself, or to stretch your legs, or to get a meal.

 

00;36;30;10 - 00;36;32;21

And the Blacks were told to stay on the train.

 

00;36;33;25 - 00;36;36;01

But the ones who got off the train, and they were looking in

 

00;36;36;01 - 00;36;39;22

some of these restaurants, particularly in the South, New Orleans.

 

00;36;40;17 - 00;36;43;17

We had a number of German P.O.W.s

 

00;36;44;03 - 00;36;46;16

that were actually allowed to go out

 

00;36;46;16 - 00;36;49;16

in town to get meals.

 

00;36;50;04 - 00;36;51;12

So German P.O.W.s

 

00;36;51;12 - 00;36;54;21

were eating meals in restaurants that the Blacks couldn't eat.

 

00;36;55;04 - 00;36;59;06

I can’t imagine it. All this is buried in the Montford Pointers.

 

00;36;59;08 - 00;37;02;14

So many of them,

when they got out of the Marine Corps after World War II,

 

00;37;02;14 - 00;37;05;20

or whenever their time was up, they went home and forgot about it.

 

00;37;06;08 - 00;37;07;09

You know, I did my duty.

 

00;37;07;09 - 00;37;10;06

I did the best I can. At least I got some benefits.

 

00;37;10;06 - 00;37;11;08

I've got the GI Bill.

 

00;37;11;08 - 00;37;12;23

Maybe I could buy a house,

 

00;37;12;23 - 00;37;14;10

maybe I can go to college.

 

00;37;14;10 - 00;37;17;14

But I'm not going to talk about the experiences because they are too hurtful.

 

00;37;20;09 - 00;37;23;09

And then, I got out in ‘46

 

00;37;24;12 - 00;37;27;11

because I had graduated from high school.

 

00;37;27;11 - 00;37;30;11

So I was working in the government and going to school,

 

00;37;30;26 - 00;37;33;26

and I got this in 1950,

 

00;37;34;14 - 00;37;37;10

got this nice little letter.

 

00;37;37;10 - 00;37;40;03

And I looked at this and said,

“Now wait, this is from the government.”

 

00;37;40;03 - 00;37;41;09

Now what is this?

 

00;37;41;09 - 00;37;44;26

So I opened up the letter, and all the letter said was:

 

00;37;44;26 - 00;37;47;26

“Report to Quantico.”

 

00;37;47;26 - 00;37;48;24

That’s all it said.

 

00;38;17;26 - 00;38;19;08

America was in a happy mode.

 

00;38;19;28 - 00;38;23;14

We were really building up the country.

We were finally making automobiles again.

 

00;38;23;21 - 00;38;27;09

We hadn't made any automobiles in a couple of years.

We were making tanks and jeeps.

 

00;38;52;08 - 00;38;56;10

During June 1950 where the Chinese

 

00;38;56;10 - 00;39;01;07

and some Northern Koreans crossed

the 38th parallel into South Korea.

 

00;39;01;16 - 00;39;02;21

We were caught off guard.

 

00;39;02;21 - 00;39;07;01

So when they crossed over, America quickly realized that they needed

 

00;39;07;01 - 00;39;09;13

to get some troops over there, but they didn't have the troops.

 

00;39;15;17 - 00;39;18;17

This is war,

 

00;39;22;10 - 00;39;23;26

War, and it's masses.

 

00;39;28;12 - 00;39;30;03

War, and its men.

 

00;39;31;23 - 00;39;33;15

See, from 1945

 

00;39;33;15 - 00;39;38;04

to ‘46 or so, we had about six

 

00;39;38;23 - 00;39;43;11

or maybe, eight divisions,

and they had disbanded

 

00;39;43;11 - 00;39;47;07

all except two. 

Nobody thought there was going to be another war, nothing.

 

00;39;47;17 - 00;39;51;00

The Marine Corps had to quickly, quickly build up again.

 

00;39;51;18 - 00;39;54;26

And the best way to build up fast is to first to call up the reserves.

 

00;39;54;26 - 00;39;56;22

Instead of recruiting people,

 

00;39;56;22 - 00;40;00;02

send them through recruit training, advanced school, and all that,

 

00;40;00;02 - 00;40;04;06

“Hey, we got a whole bunch of veterans that just fought

the war to end all wars.”

 

00;40;04;08 - 00;40;07;08

“Let’s give them a letter,” and most Korean veterans

 

00;40;07;08 - 00;40;10;17

referred to it as their greeting letter or their welcome back letter.

 

00;40;11;10 - 00;40;13;03

We miss you. Come on back.

 

00;40;13;03 - 00;40;16;11

What bothered me later

 

00;40;16;11 - 00;40;19;12

was the reserve units

 

00;40;20;04 - 00;40;23;04

that see, they weren't sending these kids

boot camp.

 

00;40;23;19 - 00;40;26;19

They were just going to boot camp on weekends.

 

00;40;26;23 - 00;40;29;15

Some of them didn't know one end of a rifle from the other,

 

00;40;31;12 - 00;40;31;24

but they

 

00;40;31;24 - 00;40;34;24

called all of them back to active duty

 

00;40;35;00 - 00;40;38;00

and they sent us all to Korea.

 

00;40;38;07 - 00;40;40;22

I reported to Quantico

 

00;40;40;22 - 00;40;44;29

and there was a bunch of guys in the room and well, at that time

 

00;40;44;29 - 00;40;49;07

I think there might have been about four or five

Black guys and everybody else was White.

 

00;40;49;28 - 00;40;52;27

So we’re all looking and wondering what’s going on?

 

00;40;53;00 - 00;40;56;00

So, here comes this old doctor.

 

00;40;57;00 - 00;40;58;06

All he did was walked and

 

00;40;58;06 - 00;40;59;23

looked, walked and looked.

 

00;40;59;23 - 00;41;02;25

He says, “Anybody have to be led in here?”

 

00;41;03;12 - 00;41;04;17

So then we looked.

 

00;41;04;17 - 00;41;06;10

They were no.

 

00;41;06;10 - 00;41;09;10

So he just kept walking and looking,

walking and looking.

 

00;41;09;20 - 00;41;12;00

He looked and said, Well, no.

 

00;41;12;00 - 00;41;14;01

He says, well, let’s see, it looks like everybody’s eyesight was alright.

 

00;41;14;01 - 00;41;17;08

So he got in here somewhere, though.

And he just kept walking and

 

00;41;17;09 - 00;41;18;22

looking, walking and looking.

 

00;41;20;10 - 00;41;23;09

He said, “Well,

 

00;41;23;09 - 00;41;24;14

your heart's all right

 

00;41;24;14 - 00;41;27;13

because all of you alive,

that's your physical.”

 

00;41;28;28 - 00;41;31;03

He ain’t put his hands on no body or nothing.

 

00;41;31;17 - 00;41;33;20

He said, “That’s your physical.”

 

00;41;34;22 - 00;41;36;12

And the guys said, “Wait, wait. Look, see...”

 

00;41;36;12 - 00;41;37;25

Yeah, I'm still young, single,

 

00;41;37;25 - 00;41;39;15

I wouldn't know.

 

00;41;39;15 - 00;41;40;28

But a lot of these guys were older.

 

00;41;40;28 - 00;41;42;19

They said “Wait, wait, wait a minute, Doctor.”

 

00;41;42;19 - 00;41;43;27

“Look, I'm married.”

 

00;41;43;27 - 00;41;47;10

“Wait, look, look, I just started a business”

See, because these old guys

 

00;41;47;10 - 00;41;50;28

were in World War II, now.

A couple of the guys even had disability,

 

00;41;51;22 - 00;41;54;22

[They had] papers [and] said, “Look, Doc, I'm on disability.”

 

00;41;56;27 - 00;42;01;02

He says, “I don't give a damn what you got,

 

00;42;01;04 - 00;42;02;24

or what you’re doing

 

00;42;02;24 - 00;42;07;27

You have your ass back here in ten days,

and if there's anything wrong with you,

 

00;42;08;00 - 00;42;11;00

they’ll find that out at Camp Lejeune.”

 

00;42;11;14 - 00;42;14;13

Montford Point Marines that had served in World War II,

 

00;42;14;15 - 00;42;16;10

some of them in battle, now

 

00;42;16;10 - 00;42;19;18

They’re sergeants, they’re staff sergeants, they’re gunnery sergeants.

 

00;42;19;18 - 00;42;22;15

They‚Äôre senior people.  They've been around since ‚Äò42

 

00;42;22;15 - 00;42;24;05

to Korea. That's eight years.

 

00;42;24;05 - 00;42;26;25

And of the eight years, four years was in battle.

 

00;42;26;25 - 00;42;30;14

So these are some senior guys here, and everything about the Montford Pointers,

 

00;42;30;15 - 00;42;34;00

from the initial serving to today, it's about progress,

 

00;42;34;00 - 00;42;37;03

and you got to take steps in progress, and that was an important step.

 

00;42;37;17 - 00;42;41;28

Well, if you've been anyplace that’s about thirty or forty degrees below zero,

 

00;42;43;01 - 00;42;45;10

that's what Korea was like.

 

00;42;45;10 - 00;42;48;12

And when they invaded Korea, we were right there with them.

 

00;42;49;06 - 00;42;52;03

And it was frostbite and freezing,

 

00;42;52;03 - 00;42;54;21

and...

 

00;42;54;21 - 00;42;57;21

some of the weapons wasn't working right.

 

00;42;58;03 - 00;43;00;03

The seas got higher and higher,

 

00;43;00;03 - 00;43;03;02

and the storm becomes a veritable

blizzard.

 

00;43;03;02 - 00;43;05;25

This is not an unusually heavy storm.

 

00;43;05;25 - 00;43;08;29

It's is typical winter weather in the northern Sea of Japan.

 

00;43;11;11 - 00;43;12;02

Although air

 

00;43;12;02 - 00;43;15;11

operations are halted during the height of the storm, flights

 

00;43;15;11 - 00;43;18;11

from snow and ice covered decks are becoming routine.

 

00;43;19;20 - 00;43;22;20

The planes are covered to protect them from the storm.

 

00;43;24;08 - 00;43;26;10

Combat maintenance of the Corsairs

 

00;43;26;10 - 00;43;29;10

and Panther jets continue through the storm.

 

00;43;29;17 - 00;43;32;04

The Navy reports the typical Korean temperatures

 

00;43;32;04 - 00;43;35;29

in the northern area averaged 11 degrees above zero during

 

00;43;35;29 - 00;43;40;01

November and five degrees below zero during December.

 

00;43;47;19 - 00;43;48;04

This is a

 

00;43;48;04 - 00;43;51;29

severe test for carrier planes.  During World War II,

 

00;43;52;01 - 00;43;55;05

most carriers were in the milder climate of the South Pacific.

 

00;43;58;25 - 00;44;00;23

Only thing that we did not

 

00;44;00;23 - 00;44;04;04

have: clothes for that kind of weather.

 

00;44;05;02 - 00;44;09;01

Experimentation in refrigerated laboratories, as well as in the Arctic

 

00;44;09;01 - 00;44;13;09

itself, have given US troops newer and better ways of fighting the weather.

 

00;44;14;08 - 00;44;16;05

The Marines were very ill-prepared.

 

00;44;16;05 - 00;44;19;09

We didn't have any cold-weather gear! Cold-weather boots?

 

00;44;19;10 - 00;44;21;23

No way! We didn't have anything cold weather.

 

00;44;21;23 - 00;44;24;23

They went over there with the same gear

they fought in the Pacific with.

 

00;44;33;18 - 00;44;35;17

Incheon, and the Chosin Reservoir

 

00;44;35;17 - 00;44;39;19

was probably the two significant battles that America remembers.

 

00;44;39;19 - 00;44;42;19

And many Montford Pointers served there.

 

00;44;43;06 - 00;44;48;10

We invaded Incheon, Incheon and what we called it, they called it Frozen Chosin.

 

00;44;54;15 - 00;44;57;15

That's when the Chinese decided to enter the war.

 

00;44;57;26 - 00;45;00;24

And boy, they entered the war in great numbers.

 

00;45;00;24 - 00;45;03;24

I mean, overwhelming numbers.

 

00;45;04;03 - 00;45;06;10

And they had the Marines surrounded around the area

 

00;45;06;10 - 00;45;09;09

called the Chosin Reservoir.

 

00;45;10;05 - 00;45;13;11

Back in the States, newspapers are filled with black headlines.

 

00;45;13;24 - 00;45;15;13

‘Trapped’ is the big word.

 

00;45;15;13 - 00;45;18;03

The Marines are trapped at Chosin Reservoir.

 

00;45;18;03 - 00;45;21;03

And General MacArthur has a new war on his hands.

 

00;45;24;21 - 00;45;26;03

At this stage of the campaign,

 

00;45;26;03 - 00;45;29;22

very few able-bodied Marines know just how bad their troubles are.

 

00;45;30;13 - 00;45;33;13

A few thousand Chinese and some harsh weather.

 

00;45;33;24 - 00;45;36;24

It's not the end of the world,

 

00;45;38;19 - 00;45;41;19

but one group of men knows for certain how bad things are.

 

00;45;41;20 - 00;45;44;10

Fox Company holding Toktong Pass.

 

00;45;44;10 - 00;45;46;01

Of all the units around the reservoir.

 

00;45;46;01 - 00;45;48;06

They are closest to annihilation.

 

00;45;48;06 - 00;45;51;06

220 Marines climbed the hill three days ago.

 

00;45;51;23 - 00;45;53;16

Half are already casualties.

 

00;45;54;23 - 00;45;56;12

And, what we were told

 

00;45;56;12 - 00;46;00;28

that when we would invade,

the Army was supposed to be flanking us.

 

00;46;02;07 - 00;46;05;16

We got up there so far, and things got so bad

 

00;46;06;08 - 00;46;08;23

the Army stopped,

 

00;46;08;23 - 00;46;11;22

and they left us out there all by ourselves.

 

00;46;12;19 - 00;46;13;17

So that's what happened.

 

00;46;13;17 - 00;46;16;17

We had because we had casualties and whatnot.

 

00;46;17;28 - 00;46;22;11

I lost an awful lot of good friends, and I felt bad for

them and their families.

 

00;46;22;23 - 00;46;25;23

Some of them died awful, slow, and miserable deaths.

 

00;46;27;03 - 00;46;31;04

The only time that I felt really bad about them dying is when I thought

 

00;46;31;04 - 00;46;34;17

that back in the States, Korea was just a little war.

 

00;46;35;06 - 00;46;37;24

Then I felt that maybe these poor guys

 

00;46;37;24 - 00;46;40;24

died for nothing.

 

00;46;43;06 - 00;46;46;25

The Chosin Reservoir, even though it wasn't a decisive military

 

00;46;46;25 - 00;46;50;18

victory, is one of the most organized retreats that you've ever seen.

 

00;46;50;18 - 00;46;54;24

Because we were defeated. They knew they had to get to the shore

 

00;46;55;04 - 00;46;57;06

onto the ships for evacuation,

 

00;46;57;06 - 00;46;59;14

and they had to fight their way out of the Chosin Reservoir

 

00;46;59;14 - 00;47;02;27

under the most extreme conditions imaginable in combat.

 

00;47;05;27 - 00;47;09;00

On the last day of November, the order comes: Pull back

 

00;47;09;00 - 00;47;12;21

to the sea, head south for Hungnam Harbor with all possible speed

 

00;47;14;15 - 00;47;18;04

The Marines take this order hard.

From Chado Cherry

 

00;47;18;04 - 00;47;21;04

to Guadalcanal, from Tarawa to Iwo Jima.

 

00;47;21;09 - 00;47;24;08

Marines have never fought in any direction but forward.

 

00;47;31;16 - 00;47;32;24

So then we of course,

 

00;47;32;24 - 00;47;36;03

we went back to the same old tactic after things cut.

 

00;47;36;16 - 00;47;40;05

We got every Marine out of there dead or alive...whatever.

 

00;47;40;05 - 00;47;43;05

Got them all out of there...yeah.

 

00;47;52;06 - 00;47;56;10

Director: Why would you fight for a country that's

treating you that way?

 

00;47;56;18 - 00;47;59;18

I just thought it was my duty,

 

00;47;59;19 - 00;48;02;20

and maybe things will be better

 

00;48;02;26 - 00;48;04;15

when this is all over.

 

00;48;04;15 - 00;48;06;23

As far as we're concerned.

 

00;48;06;23 - 00;48;12;21

You know, Blacks are concerned, because see, I had uncles in

World War I.

 

00;48;13;19 - 00;48;16;20

And even Blacks in every

 

00;48;18;11 - 00;48;19;09

skirmish,

 

00;48;19;09 - 00;48;24;29

or war time that the United States has had since it's been the

United States,

 

00;48;25;08 - 00;48;28;08

there's been Black men involved,

 

00;48;28;08 - 00;48;31;08

and still we're being dogged as if

 

00;48;31;09 - 00;48;33;03

we're not human.

 

00;48;33;03 - 00;48;36;09

And that's just the way I was raised up.

 

00;48;41;08 - 00;48;45;11

Being raised and living in colored skin,

 

00;48;45;25 - 00;48;49;10

my parents taught me

life is not always going to be fair,

 

00;48;49;25 - 00;48;53;12

but you have to keep the faith, and keep pushing forward.

 

00;48;53;16 - 00;48;58;02

When I first started in Richmond, Virginia, there was one Black man

 

00;48;58;02 - 00;49;02;16

and one Black woman at all of the TV

stations there, and someone said,

 

00;49;02;16 - 00;49;06;06

“Why don't you try radio

and work on your voice projection?”

 

00;49;06;16 - 00;49;07;17

And that's what I did.

 

00;49;07;17 - 00;49;11;16

I did radio news before I got into TV, and when I worked at

 

00;49;11;16 - 00;49;14;19

MSNBC and, you know, I expressed how much I loved it.

 

00;49;15;00 - 00;49;19;02

It was very interesting because there were probably six of us

 

00;49;19;09 - 00;49;24;10

who resembled each other, and we were all said to highlight our hair

 

00;49;24;22 - 00;49;27;11

and we were told, “It softens your look,”

 

00;49;27;11 - 00;49;30;11

but what my parents taught me

 

00;49;30;16 - 00;49;34;05

was to treat people with respect.

 

00;49;34;10 - 00;49;37;24

My dad constantly tells me when he hears me speak up about something,

 

00;49;38;01 - 00;49;41;09

he'll tap me on my arm and say, okay, “be kind

 

00;49;41;09 - 00;49;44;10

now.” You know, we're not...we're not being aggressive about an issue.

 

00;49;44;18 - 00;49;45;27

“Okay, be kind now.”

 

00;49;45;27 - 00;49;47;26

You have to be nice to people.

 

00;49;47;26 - 00;49;51;17

And he's a Southern gentleman from beginning to end.

 

00;50;00;10 - 00;50;01;10

I have

 

00;50;01;10 - 00;50;05;03

watched my parents grieve the death of my brother.

 

00;50;06;28 - 00;50;09;04

I watched my dad

 

00;50;09;04 - 00;50;12;04

grieve the death of my mom.

 

00;50;12;07 - 00;50;17;17

Those were the only times when I saw him choke up or cry.

 

00;50;18;07 - 00;50;20;18

But talking about Saipan,

 

00;50;20;18 - 00;50;23;18

that's probably number three.

 

00;50;26;00 - 00;50;28;24

They were fighting for a country

 

00;50;28;24 - 00;50;31;15

that did not respect them

 

00;50;31;15 - 00;50;34;11

as first-class citizens,

 

00;50;34;11 - 00;50;39;10

but they were defending the liberties of everybody in America.

 

00;50;39;25 - 00;50;43;16

That stuck with me because I thought, “Mm, could I do that?”

 

00;50;44;20 - 00;50;46;23

My mom passed away in 2014.

 

00;50;46;23 - 00;50;48;18

She was blessed to live long enough

 

00;50;48;18 - 00;50;51;18

to see them awarded the Congressional Gold Medal.

 

00;50;52;10 - 00;50;55;19

The ceremony was held in the brand new visitor

 

00;50;55;19 - 00;50;58;29

center that is in the basement of the Capitol.

 

00;50;59;00 - 00;51;02;05

I think most of the guys were just numb because they couldn't

 

00;51;02;05 - 00;51;06;09

believe the time had arrived for them to be honored.

 

00;51;07;25 - 00;51;10;24

I think we have progressed, but I don't consider myself

 

00;51;11;01 - 00;51;14;01

just because they were there, they were heroes.

 

00;51;15;29 - 00;51;20;04

And I figure that we were born and raised in this country.

 

00;51;20;28 - 00;51;24;23

Why shouldn't we be entitled to everything other countrymen have?

 

00;51;25;06 - 00;51;28;06

If you think of

 

00;51;29;16 - 00;51;31;22

400 years

 

00;51;31;22 - 00;51;34;22

that Black people gave to this country,

 

00;51;36;02 - 00;51;38;23

and we were beaten,

 

00;51;38;23 - 00;51;40;21

lynched,

 

00;51;40;21 - 00;51;44;12

and everything. Maybe for no reason at all.

 

00;51;45;22 - 00;51;47;24

And how many people got rich off

 

00;51;47;24 - 00;51;50;24

our back in this country,

 

00;51;51;15 - 00;51;54;15

and we didn't get a penny?

 

00;51;57;10 - 00;52;00;08

So I wouldn't say we were heroes.

 

00;52;00;08 - 00;52;03;08

I just say we were good patriots.

 

00;52;03;15 - 00;52;05;16

I'm just saying that.

 

00;52;05;16 - 00;52;08;25

And maybe that's the way I felt that things might be better

 

00;52;10;00 - 00;52;12;07

if I go in to fight.

 

00;52;12;07 - 00;52;13;16

I say, “Well, this is my country.

 

00;52;13;16 - 00;52;15;07

I don’t have no other country!”

 

00;52;15;07 - 00;52;18;06

And sometimes I wonder...yeah.

 

00;52;18;06 - 00;52;20;14

Director: Wonder what?

 

00;52;20;14 - 00;52;23;14

If it's even getting worse?

 

00;52;23;27 - 00;52;27;24

I still can't get over all this killing and stuff that's going on.

 

00;52;27;24 - 00;52;29;10

I just.

 

00;52;29;10 - 00;52;31;21

But maybe one day it'll be better.

 

00;52;31;21 - 00;52;34;04

I don't know. I hope so.

 

00;52;34;04 - 00;52;37;03

I hope so.