New Speaker:

In Cambodia, mass murder has become part of the landscape.

Pensakin:

Come on. Come on. Go. [foreign language].

Speaker 1:

Behind their village is Phnom Sampeau Mountain, one of 540 known execution sites of the Khmer Rouge. For the local children, it's like a macabre ghost story, complete with child killing monsters and a cave full of bones, but here, the monsters were real, and the horrors really happened.

Pensakin:

When the boy and girl is small [inaudible] push down and die.

Speaker 1:

And the reason why the Khmer Rouge killed people by throwing them on rocks was quite simple, it saved on bullets. The Khmer Rouge programme of genocide was far more ambitious than even Hitler's or Stalin's. In less than four years, they would kill almost a quarter of their population, old people, young people, even babies were slaughtered in the thousands. But what really distinguishes it is that most of the people who planned and ordered this are alive and well. They live just down the road. Men like Khieu Samphan, the Khmer Rouge Prime Minister, now enjoying a full amnesty and expecting full forgiveness.

Khieu Samphan:

As for all of the Cambodians, let bygones be bygones.

Speaker 4:

Are you prepared at all to say sorry to the Cambodians that died under your regime to those who survived? Are you prepared in any way? Do you have any remorse for what you've done?

Khieu Samphan:

Yes, sorry. Very sorry.

Speaker 1:

And Pol Pot's brother-in-law, Leng Sary, ranked number five in the genocidal hierarchy, now enjoying a royal pardon. At least six other members of the Khmer Rouge cabinet are living in comfortable retirement.

Speaker 5:

They look pretty happy to me. I met them a couple of times, and they have nice villa with air conditioning. They have nice cars. I'm sure they don't want to die. I can guarantee you that, and they have plenty of resources to take care of themselves.

Speaker 1:

Few acts in history can compare to their crimes. Led by Pol Pot, the Khmer Rouge set out to destroy Cambodian society to create a perfect revolution of the states. Millions were expelled from the cities to work as slave labourers on the land. Hundreds of thousands died from starvation and disease. Just as many were executed, was counter revolutionaries. Wherever possible, the Khmer Rouge killed their wives and children, too.

In the Village of Phnom Sampeau, not a single family escaped the killing spree. By the age of 15, Tee had lost his entire family.

Tee:

I have two other sister, and one youngest brother, and me, and my parents. So, six people in my family that I lost [inaudible].

Speaker 1:

Looking back, can you understand how it happened, why it happened?

Tee:

Even now, nobody understand the reason why they killed lots of people here. Even me, now, I don't understand. So, I would like to hear the reason why from the former Khmer.

Speaker 1:

You find them just 60 kilometres from his village, passed a jungle checkpoint, down a dusty bombed out road. This is where the Khmer Rouge fled when they were driven from power in 1979. Today, Pailin's 40,000 residents still include some of the most senior leaders of Pol Pot's regime. The governor Y Chhien is widely reputed to be Pol Pot's son. He insists they should not be punished.

Y Chhien:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

Why not? Why not?

Y Chhien:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

Y Chin was the Khmer Rouge military commander when Pailin defected the government in August 1996. 10,000 troops laid down their arms and swapped their uniforms in return for amnesties and autonomy. Pol Pot held out until he died in the jungle, but the late '90s saw his fellow murderers defect on mass. Prime Minister, Hun Sen welcomed them as elder statesman. It was seen as the price for peace. But most of them still yearn to see them punished. Dr. Lao Mong Hay has spent 10 years campaigning for a genocide trial.

Lao Mong Hay:

[inaudible] themselves, a demon in our Cambodian body. We have to exercise the demon.

Speaker 1:

What happened to your family during the Khmer Rouge?

Lao Mong Hay:

My little brother was arrested and tortured to death.

Speaker 1:

Every single Cambodian lost family and friends, but none of Pol Pot's deputies have ever been punished. Now, under pressure from the United Nations, Cambodia says that's about to change.

Speaker 9:

We will try the Khmer Rouge. I said we will, for the crime that they have committed against not only the people of Cambodia, but against humanity. [foreign language]

Speaker 1:

At the proposal before Parliament is not what the UN wanted. Instead of an international court, it would be dominated by Cambodians, and many believe Cambodian simply can not deliver justice.

Craig Echison:

The human remains here, like this skull, are just one small part of the total collection of evidence. It's incontrovertible [crosstalk].

Speaker 1:

Genocide investigator Craig [Echison] has spent the passed decade gathering evidence against the Khmer Rouge leadership.

Craig Echison:

They were whacked with a log or an iron bar.

Speaker 1:

He does not believe Cambodian judges and prosecutors have the expertise or independence to convict them.

Craig Echison:

The Khmer Rouge literally killed virtually every single lawyer in the country. They dismantled all of the existing legal institutions.

Speaker 1:

Last month, the justice system was put to the test, trying the former mid-level Khmer Rouge commander, [Chhouk Rin]. He was the man behind the kidnap and murder of Australian social worker, David Wilson, and he walked free from the court.

Craig Echison:

More than anything, the trial of Chhouk Rin served to underline the fact that impunity continues to reign in Cambodia for the Khmer Rouge.

Speaker 1:

In 1994, Chhouk Rin led an attack on a passenger train, slaughtering more than a dozen Cambodians. They kidnapped and later executed David Wilson and two other foreign travellers. Despite this, Chhouk Rin was allowed to take advantage of a general amnesty. He became a colonel in the Royal Cambodian Army. But, after intense international pressure, he was charged with murder.

Craig Echison:

Chhouk Rin was not on trial for the murder of 20 Cambodians. He was on trial for the murder of three foreigners. What does this say about Cambodia's commitment to justice?

Speaker 1:

Even then, he was let free. Last month, on the first day of his trial, the court ruled the amnesty excused any crime. The case was dismissed.

Craig Echison:

The Cambodians were not even able to properly interpret their own domestic laws. So, under these circumstances, I think there's hope that they can properly interpret international law for these kinds of very complex crimes. [foreign language]

Speaker 1:

And it's unclear when or if Parliament will setup the genocide tribunal. The government has put the proposal on hold, demanding further negotiations with the UN. Dr. Lao believes the government wants to stall the issue until the UN gives up trying.

Lao Mong Hay:

Protecting the negotiations, and are statesman here and there, and then, they are [inaudible] trial issue, you see?

Speaker 1:

So, do you think the Cambodian government wants to have a trial?

Lao Mong Hay:

Deep down, no. Why? Because some of our rulers say we are serving. We're associating with the Khmer Rouge. They were Khmer Rouge themselves. So, I believe that there is some of them that have their skins to save.

Speaker 1:

Those major political parties include high ranking Khmer Rouge officers. The peace deal saw some Khmer Rouge leaders rewarded with senior military posts. Pailin's governor, Y Chhien, warns any move to arrest them will be met by force.

Y Chhien:

[foreign language].

Speaker 1:

The former Khmer Rouge have retained the commercial interests that helps fund their armed rebellion. Right now, supplemented Pailin's gem mines and timber holdings with international casinos. Opposite the main casino in a tightly guarded jungle compound is the villa of Khmer Rouge Premiere, Khieu Samphan. This house, in the centre of Pailin is home to Ieng Sary. In earlier days, he almost revelled in being a Khmer Rouge celebrity, telling the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation he would write a history of the Khmer Rougeiers. But talk of a genocide trial have made him suddenly camera-shy.

This is Ieng Sary's son, Vuth, the nephew of Pol Pot. He's now Pailin's deputy governor. His appointment represents a seamless transfer of power to the second generation, but Vuth insists his elders are being judged too harshly.

Vuth:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

Do you acknowledge the Khmer Rouge carried out genocide, that more than a million people were murdered in this country?

Vuth:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

Under the proposal, the standing committee of the Khmer Rouge would be indicted. That includes your parents. Do you support that?

Vuth:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

Every morning, former Khmer Rouge fighters line up as loyal police to salute the Royal Cambodian flag.

Vuth:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

It's as though changing uniforms can shift the past. Pailin now appears to be utterly normal, no different from any provincial Cambodian town. And that's how officials want the world to see it.

Dong:

Hello?

Speaker 1:

Dong was once Pol Pot's radio chief, pumping out malice propaganda, averting violence against their enemies. Now, he presents easy listening.

Dong:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

Pol Pot's genocide killed five members of Dong's family, but he says there should be no talk of a trial.

Dong:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

Doing nothing would be the easy option, and the threat of armed resistance has given Phnom Penh a convenient escape clause. Many people say that if the Khmer Rouge leaders are tried, the war could start again.

Speaker 9:

There are real risks. Yes, there are real risks. If that kind of risk be not really will appear, but if it's really the real reason, I think we have to think twice, before.

Speaker 1:

But even in Pailin, many would like the government to call their bluff. [Sonang] supports his family by selling gems from the old Khmer Rouge mines. He doubts anyone would lift a finger to defend their old leaders.

Sonang:

[foreign language]

Speaker 1:

And in theory, there should be no trouble getting convictions. The Genocide Documentation Centre has compiled an awesome record of Pol Pot's three years, eight months and 20 days of slaughter. The main targets are the Khmer Rouge Standing Committee. The survivors now age between 68 and 75. The center's director, [Yok Chun] has been patiently tracking them for five years.

Yok Chun:

To see them, who are responsible for what happened, to more than one million people and walking free and enjoys this kind of luxury. I feel like their making [inaudible] or something. It's real immoral.

Speaker 1:

Occasionally, he even runs into them. A short distance from the centre is another of Ieng Sary's villas, nevose rich mansion, just behind the Russian embassy.

Yok Chun:

He's responsible for my sister who died in the Khmer Rouge, my uncles, my niece, my nephews, my [inaudible] relative, and 1.7 million. And literally next, just a couple blocks from the centre. I'm sure he may be tapping my telephone line or something, but who cares?

Speaker 1:

Do they still frighten you?

Yok Chun:

They should be afraid of me, because I have the evidence to put them in jail.

Speaker 1:

There is no luxury for the Khmer Rouge victims. 30 years of war and terror have shattered Cambodia. Farmland has been turned into minefields. Communities have been torn apart. But slowly, many victims are recovering from the genocide. Tee lived most of his life alone, but now has a family of his own. Two young daughters are helping fill the loss of his sisters, brother, and parents.

Tee:

I lost my family. Now, I'm starting to have a new family.

Speaker 1:

But he wants them to grow up in a society that knows the difference between right and wrong, and that punishes the guilty.

Tee:

I think it's very important for Cambodian people, especially for young generation.

Speaker 1:

You'd like them to know what happened-

Tee:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

... and what must never happen again.

Tee:

Yeah, yes. Because their grandfather, mother, and their uncle, aunt was murdered during the Khmer Rouge. But, no, they didn't know, but when their growing, they might ask me. They might ask me.

Speaker 1:

It's much better now [crosstalk]. [foreign language] Cambodia is still to come to terms with an unimaginable past. Half the population has been born since the genocide, but it continues to scar every one of them. Cambodia must now decide which call to answer, the demands of political expedience, or the silent cries for justice with a country built on brains.