Speaker
1: |
When
political leaders are not held responsible for their actions, democracy is at
risk. Tonight, Special Assignment examines government's commitment to
accountability. |
Speaker
2: |
It's
seven o'clock on Tuesday, the 12th of September. You're listening to AM Live
on SAFM 104 to 107, making news headlines. The AM scene on the Western Capes
as Premier Gerald Morkel has failed the people of
the province by not leading by example. The party was reacting to the... |
Speaker
3: |
Oh
the comrades! Comrades, the President. |
President: |
There
are many instances in Africa and elsewhere in the world which show what
happens when on becoming a ruling party, a genuinely popular national
liberation movement such as ours, loses contact with the people, and its leaders
transformed themselves into a self-serving ruling elite. |
Speaker
5: |
Accountability
is a cornerstone of democracy. Watchdog bodies like Parliament and the Public
Protector are there to hold those in high office accountable for their
actions. But they only work if government itself displays commitment to
enforce their decisions. Sometimes the system works. Without political will,
it doesn't. |
Dr. Sebiletso: |
We've
challenged the industry to come up with a forum that will work for
broadcasting. Mr. de Klerk. |
Peter
de Klerk: |
And
the announcement we make today is indeed a great step forward in broadcasting
South Africa. |
Speaker
5: |
The
Independent Broadcasting Authority was set up to promote democracy by opening
the air waves that were once dominated by the state broadcaster. |
Peter
de Klerk: |
It's
led to the opening up of the air waves to new commercial radio entrepreneurs. |
Speaker
5: |
To
do that, the integrity of IBA counsellors had to be above reproach. |
Dr. Sebiletso: |
Focusing
on the information [inaudible] |
Selby
Baqwa: |
When
people get appointed to bodies like the IBA, they are appointed on the basis
of the understanding of what IBA is supposed to do, but most of all, on the
basis of integrity. You're talking about people who are well educated and
respected in society. |
Henri
Kluever: |
It's
difficult, you know, to describe exactly how a thing like that goes wrong,
but I think with the appointment of the IBA, they've had no administrative
capacity, and no experience of administration. And the administration started
going wrong. |
Shauket Fakie: |
And
we started seeing some practises and things that's happening that's way
beyond the normal public sector sort of practise. And the kinds of
explanations that we were starting to get for those things were not
satisfactory. |
Gavin
Woods: |
By
year three, we'd become alarmed. We wrote a strong recommendation which we
had table with Parliament, and asked them to get their act together. |
Speaker
5: |
But
when they didn't, the Auditor General was brought in to do a special
investigation. Henri Kluever presented his report
to Parliament. He documented a series of very serious problems in the IBA's
financial affairs. |
Speaker
6: |
The
Parliamentary Public Account's Committee has called on the Public Protector
to investigate whether anyone should be prosecuted for financial
mismanagement within the Independent Broadcasting Authority. |
Henri
Kluever: |
The
idea of the democratic system is to optimise the spending of the taxpayers'
money. And well you must use public money. And that's basically a crime. |
Shauket Fakie: |
From
the role that IBA's could have played, as a role model, and you've got people
within that institution, even if it's 500 rand, it's not the value that's
important, it's the principal that's important. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
Even
if we're in a society in transition, these are things that just shouldn't
happen, you know. Because we're not talking of ignorance of rules and
regulations. Simple, common sense things that people shouldn't do. |
Peter
de Klerk: |
I
don't believe that the inference of the Auditor General is that we can't be
trusted with money. I don't believe the inference is that we've been abusing
money. I think what he's saying to us is that we haven't had the necessary
controls, administrative procedures, and systems. |
Dr. Sebiletso: |
We
acknowledge that we have not paid as much attention to administrative matters
to- |
Selby
Baqwa: |
And
that's the kind of thing that people have to understand, that if there's no
policy, you have a responsibility to be accountable to do the right thing and
so on. And this wasn't done in this particular case. |
Speaker
5: |
The
scandal caused lasting damage to the organization's integrity. So much so,
that it soon became difficult for the IBA to fulfil its function. |
Gavin
Woods: |
I
think we had at that point gathered enough evidence to show that not only at
the general level were they incompetent, and not delivering against the
responsibilities that had been given to them as counsellors. But they weren't
running the IBA and especially its financial activities in a way that they
were supposed to. Dishonesty at the individual and personal level of
particular counts for us, I think came into sharp focus. |
Speaker
5: |
The
very next day, the three counsellors resigned. |
Lyndall
Shope: |
As
a counsellor, I take full responsibility for everything that relates to the
running of the organisation. |
Speaker
5: |
Lyndall
Shope-Mafole was appointed as ministerial advisor
less than six months later. Today, she is the Minister's representative at
South Africa's embassy in France. |
Dr. Sebiletso: |
I
take responsibility for the fact that in terms of the management of the
organisation, things didn't go well. |
Speaker
5: |
Just
after her resignation, Dr. Sebiletso
Mokone-Matabane was appointed as a consultant to
the government owned company, Sentech. Today, she is the acting managing
director. |
Peter
de Klerk: |
As
a counsellor, I must take responsibility, 'cause
that's the way it happened. |
Speaker
5: |
Peter
de Klerk still works as an advisor to the minster, an appointment made soon
after his resignation. At a press conference three years later, the Minister
publicly exonerated all three counsellors. |
Dr
Ivy Matsepe: |
...
is very important. I look forward to their continued contribution in the
communications industry. |
Gavin
Woods: |
At
the end of the day, they weren't accountable for the generally poor way in
which they managed the IBA. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
Our
investigations usually end at the findings and recommendations stage. Then we
take it back to the official of the department concerned for implementation. |
Speaker
5: |
Despite
all the recommendations, the Heath Unit cleared the counsellors on charges of
corruption on a technicality. There had been no policies in place preventing
the use of IBA credit cards for personal expenses. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
Corruption
doesn't get fought only when you arrest somebody, or when you make a finding
against somebody in a commission of inquiry. Corruption is in the acts that
you do, the messages that you are sending. |
Speaker
5: |
Literally
from the day of his appointment as in Mpumalanga's Safety and Security MEC,
Steve Mabona was controversial. But allegations of
corruption could never be pinned down until a scandal broke around the
fraudulent issuing of traffic licences. |
J.
Arenstein: |
People
were found to have been given licences without once getting into a vehicle,
without sitting down doing the test. In fact one of the people who had been
given a licence was found not to even know how to identify a steering wheel
in a vehicle. |
Speaker
5: |
John
Muller was the traffic cop in Mabona's department
who brought the scandal to Arenstein's attention. |
John
Muller: |
We
found out that they had just stopped my salary. 'Cause
Frieda went to draw some money and there was no money in the bank. In
November, I don't know what, '96 I think it was. And then when we made
inquiries, and nobody could tell me what this is story. And it went on like
that for eight months. |
J.
Arenstein: |
John
Muller is a, rather outspoken, very opinionated traffic cop in Mpumalanga.
With very curious ideas of his own of what is right and what is wrong. He
clashed repeatedly with the senior management on issues that he felt were
incorrect. |
Frieda
Muller: |
I
said ask him just be quiet, you know, you've got children growing up. I mean
you need the job because I wasn't working at the time. And you use to just
tell me off, "I won't forsake my morals. I can't overlook these
things." |
Speaker
5: |
A
traditional inquiry was launched into the extent of fraud and corruption in Mabona's department. |
H.
Moldenhauer: |
We
listened to quite a lot of witnesses, and then they were strong evidence
pointing to the involvement of Mr. Mabona. |
J.
Arenstein: |
We
had traffic officers making confessions. "Yes, I'm guilty of nepotism.
Yes I'm guilty of corruption. And yes my superiors knew about it and failed
to act about it." |
John
Muller: |
Some
people make for, for the two months that I confiscated licences in
Mpumalanga, I worked up and made an average of two million rand a month,
selling driver's licences. |
|
Actually
Moldenhauer himself congratulated me and said, "You are very brave man
to bring this out because everything you're gonna
lose now." |
H.
Moldenhauer: |
The
finding of the commission was that Mr. Mabona as the
political head of the department of Safety and Security in Mpumalanga, did
not doing job properly. There was a lot of lack of control in the department,
and we also found that he was aware of the lack of proper control. |
J.
Arenstein: |
Mabona was found, was recommended to be removed from office
urgently because he was found not to be fit for a position of public
authority. |
Steve
Mabona: |
There
was a recommendation that states, I have failed to run the department and
stop corruption. That's what Moldenhauer said. But I said to this man,
"Where does it come from?" Because all the things I told them I
did, even document, it was not even in the whole report of [inaudible] five
pages. |
J.
Arenstein: |
The
commission report which this is the report over here, it's quite bulky,
simply verify what is already known at that stage. |
Steve
Mabona: |
I
never respected data reports. And I will never respect it. |
Speaker
5: |
Before
the findings of the commission were even made public, Mabona
resigned. But he remained a back bencher in the provincial legislature. After
the 1999 election, when a new Premier took over, Mabona
was reappointed as MEC for Safety and Security. |
N.
Mahlangu: |
It
is indeed, the Premier's constitutional prerogative, to appoint this
candidate. Even without consulting as [inaudible] in this country. I think
that message should be very clear to us all. |
Steve
Mabona: |
I
mean, everybody, it seems to me Justin Arenstein,
everybody, they are trying to blame me. |
J.
Arenstein: |
Mabona's one of the more difficult people to investigate because
people are truly, truly physically afraid of the man. He's a very outspoken
person, very large, and very in your face. And he's not adverse to making
public threats. |
Steve
Mabona: |
I
have never, never, threatened anybody in my whole life. |
J.
Arenstein: |
The
fact is that this is a man in position of authority. A man in a position of
public trust and he appears to have violated the public trust. |
Speaker
5: |
Mabona was even assigned an additional portfolio, that of public
works. Muller's life, has been destroyed. |
Speaker
22: |
You
know, our parents are having so hard ... |
Frieda
Muller: |
[inaudible]
Don't worry about it, it will come [crosstalk] |
Speaker
22: |
Yeah,
like you always say. |
John
Muller: |
My
job was to investigate. I investigated. Where did it get me? |
J.
Arenstein: |
I
think it's an incredibly bad example to other officials. I mean what are we
basically saying to the public. Yes, do something wrong. If you get caught,
we'll demote you. We won't fire you. We'll demote you. You'll continue
earning a salary, and we'll keep quiet until we think people have forgotten
and then you're back in office. In fact more powerful than before. |
John
Muller: |
We
all have a responsibility towards each other. And my responsibilities were to
the motorists. And if I can't make that out, save it for the motorists, then
I will gladly do it again tomorrow. |
Speaker
5: |
On
the 11th of May, 1994, IFP President Mangosuthu
Buthelezi was appointed Minister of Home Affairs in the government of
National Unity. Straight after the country's first democratic election,
relations between the ANC government and the IFP were delicately balanced. On
the 22nd of December, 1998, in his hometown Ulundi, Buthelezi walked into the
First National Bank carrying checkers bags stuffed with money. |
Paul
Kirk: |
First
found about it when someone from First National Bank [inaudible] to find me,
to say that a friend of his had been imprisoned at First National Bank when
the Minister of Home Affairs asked to see the bank manager, was led into the
bank manager's office, and explained that in exchange for what he had in the
checkers packets, he wanted a check for a million rand, a bank check. When
the Minister emptied the cash all over the desk, the guy realised that we're
talking a fairly serious sum of money, and called a number of people to help
him count, count this cash out. It took some time, I understand it took well
over an hour or so to count this money out. The total was a little over two
and half million rand. That money was separated out. One million rand was
given to the bank, who in exchange for that cash gave out a bank check. The
rest was put back into the checkers packets and the Minister of Home Affairs
walked out. |
Speaker
5: |
On
the third of March this year, Kirk published an article detailing these
events. |
Speaker
24: |
What
happened after the article was published? |
Paul
Kirk: |
Absolutely
nothing. There was no investigation. This is a Senior Minister of State. The
Minister of Home Affair, walking around with checkers packets full of fifty
and hundred rand notes. |
Speaker
5: |
Buthelezi
said the money had been raised for the second general election, and that he
strongly rejected any suggestion of impropriety. But why did the Minister
convert the cash into a check before depositing into the IFP account? |
Shauket Fakie: |
I
would try to find an explanation as to why that trans- and there's always
sometimes good reasons, practical reasons as to why someone does that. |
Speaker
5: |
Questions
remain, but who should ask them? When approached for comment, First National
Bank declined, citing client confidentiality. |
Shauket Fakie: |
There
is a requirement currently with the bank, where if they do find any
transaction that looks suspicious, that's material, et cetera, et cetera,
they have a duty to look into that firstly, and to report. Now who they gonna report it to, I'm not sure. |
Paul
Kirk: |
Who
should investigate it, I don't know. The matter wasn't reported to the
police. I established that. So certainly First National Bank never thought
that there was a crime committed there. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
It's
just a matter, as far as I'm concerned, that would raise an eyebrow. But
unfortunately it's a matter in which I can't do much about. |
Speaker
5: |
The
fact is, the Public Protector does not have the right to ask questions
because it wasn't public money. But as government Minister, is Buthelezi not
accountable to the public? Do we not have a right to know why a Minister has
two and half million rands cash in checkers bags?
When approached for comment, Buthelezi declined. He said even after six
months, he might still take legal action against Kirk. |
Paul
Kirk: |
He
wouldn't be the first person to praise an act of scandal. Especially not in
this province. |
Speaker
5: |
Penuell Maduna returned from exile in
1990. A constitutional expert himself, he became a key player in writing
South Africa's new constitution. |
Penuell Maduna: |
We
will absolutely have to go back to negotiations but those must be very
serious negotiations aimed at democratising this country. |
Speaker
5: |
Later
he was appointed as Minster for Mineral and Energy affairs. As the first ANC
Minister in this department, Maduna had to
transform this controversial institution. He suspected irregularities in the
Strategic Fuel Fund, the sanctioned busting, government owned company that
buys and sells oil. Convinced that there was corruption, Maduna
launched his own inquiry. |
Mungo
Soggot: |
An
oil company involved in sanctions busting, that was always, you know, that's
always something a journalist would wanna look at.
And the fact that the Minister was interested in finding something, you know
I was, you know, fascinated to pursue it. |
Speaker
5: |
As
a prominent watchdog body, it's crucial that the Auditor General's office is
above reproach. They were responsible for auditing the Fuel Fund's books and
detecting possible irregularities. |
Henri
Kluever: |
There's
no possibility of any irregularities. We even did inspections of well stock
piles. |
Mungo
Soggot: |
After
several months and nothing happened, you know, the story started to shift
towards, you know, whether or not this was a witch hunt. And you know, we
wrote a few stories suggesting that perhaps there wasn't sufficient evidence
to warrant this investigation that the Minister had launched. |
Speaker
5: |
Placed
under pressure by these press reports, but without sufficient evidence, the
Minister exploded in Parliament. He accused Henri Kluever
of covering up the theft of 170 million rand. |
Mungo
Soggot: |
The
phrase was, the Auditor General will have to explain, you know, how a 170
million rand's worth of oil went up in smoke. That was the phrase he used.
And we obviously now, we know that he was confusing the [inaudible] real
loss, and an accounting loss. He'd stumbled upon a piece of paper that one of
his investigators had given him. Which, you know, would refer to a loss of
170 million rand and [inaudible] for an accounting loss. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
The
unfortunate part is that during the cause of doing his job, he lapsed at one
point, in allowing himself to go public on something that he was not
understanding properly. And, which impacted rather negatively, on the
General's office. |
Shauket Fakie: |
It
cost the office an excess of six and half million rand to defend, to defend
that statement. |
Penuell Maduna: |
For
me, the integrity of the Office of the Auditor General is uppermost. I want
the [inaudible] to go out, to undermine it. But I shall never cease asking
questions when a particular situation I find myself in as Minister, begs
questions. Am I wrong? And if I am wrong, I will accept it. |
Henri
Kluever: |
For
a member of the Executive to attack the Auditor General is also, it's not
acceptable from a democratic point of view. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
He
not only engaged, the Auditor General's office in a speech, or speeches he
made in Parliament, but I mean even in a press conference. You know, and
didn't go to the Institution as the Constitution directs. |
Henri
Kluever: |
Well
he never he asked us to explain. I don't know who he asked. |
Douglas
Gibson: |
If
he'd done what any normal person would have done, to say, "Please
explain it to me, so I understand it," we would've saved him all this
embarrassment, the government all the embarrassment. |
Speaker
5: |
The
matter was referred to a committee that found that Maduna
had in fact transgressed the rules of Parliament. |
Douglas
Gibson: |
Instead
of standing up in Parliament, apologising, and withdrawing, what he did was
to exercise his right to have Senior Council and Junior Council appear on his
behalf. And this went on for a year. |
Speaker
5: |
The
matter was also referred to the Public Protector. He was asked to make a
finding on whether the Minister had acted unconstitutionally. |
Mungo
Soggot: |
An
Auditor General run an institutions which is, you know, pretty well protected
by the constitution, a section of the constitution, which protects those kind
of independent watchdog institutions from attack by other organs of
government. |
Speaker
5: |
At
the height of the crisis, with a Public Protector's findings still pending, Maduna was appointed Minister of Justice and
Constitutional Development. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
Well
I made a finding that, in that regard, he had acted unconstitutionally, not
following the prescripts of section 41. |
Henri
Kluever: |
Anybody
who holds public office must surely hold the constitution dear. And that's
not happened in this case. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
All
I'm saying is that if we're dealing with the supreme law of the land, then we
must show that we respect it. |
Speaker
5: |
What
government is left grappling with, is a Minister of Justice and
Constitutional Development found to have acted unconstitutionally. |
Mungo
Soggot: |
Baqwa report makes it quite clear that apart from a few, you
know, a few minor accounting anomalies, in face Kluever
comes out pretty spotless. And the oil company, amazing, the state oil
company under Apartheid, comes out clean. |
Speaker
5: |
A
few days into the Baqwa inquiry, Maduna actually admitted that he had made a mistake, but
there was no turning back. His allegations against the Auditor General had
been so serious, and cost such doubt on the integrity of the office, that the
investigation had to run its course. It was a simple mistake, but a very
costly one. The investigation lasted a year and cost around 30 million rand
in legal fees. |
Henri
Kluever: |
That's
a lot of money. It can buy a lot of clinics and buy a lot of school books. |
Shauket Fakie: |
Whichever
way, wherever you look at it, at the end of the day, it's gonna
come out of the pockets of the tax payer. Whether it's my cost, the six and a
half, or whatever the total process has cost, coming out of SFF, it's gonna come out of the coffers of the taxpayer |
Speaker
5: |
The
Public Protector can only make findings so the matter was referred to a
parliamentary committee under the chairmanship of [inaudible] Nel. The
committee had to recommend a suitable sanction. Its judgement was supposed to be quick, but months later,
it is still pending. |
Selby
Baqwa: |
It
is within, or on the table, of this honourable committee of Parliament, to
ensure that the sanctions that are attached to the provisions of the
constitution. Because if that doesn't happen, the constitution is not worth,
with the respect the paper is written on. |
Penuell Maduna: |
It
would, I want to say, and being an abuse of that institution, to censor a
person who says, "But look at the problems." |
Selby
Baqwa: |
When
a Minister, for anybody for that matter as, there should be a consequence. |
Gavin
Woods: |
And
so we're hopeful that the now commission, doesn't in any way, downplay, the
Public Protector's findings and report. |
Mungo
Soggot: |
We've
called for his resignation several times in editorials. You know the
newspaper has. |
Gavin
Woods: |
I
think there should at least be a very public reprimand, from the President. |
Mungo
Soggot: |
And
the main thing you're supposed to do as a Minister is to exercise
judgement and take advice properly and
he hasn't, he hasn't quite done that. |
Henri
Kluever: |
Yes,
that's, that is strange isn't it? |
Selby
Baqwa: |
It
has been said, even during the former President's time, Mandela, that we need
an RDP of the soul. That's a reference to the moral regime that we're trying
to establish in this country. The sooner our political leaders also realise that
you know, we got a good governments. But in regard also to how we want to
grow our children. The sooner they realise that the better. |
Speaker
1: |
Join
us again next week for another Special Assignment. And if you have any
comments or suggestions, you can email them to truth@sabc.co.za. |