00:00:11:00 --> 00:00:12:15

   Lord, I'm ashamed of my life.

 

00:00:13:15 --> 00:00:16:14

    This morning I felt strongly

        that my relationship

 

00:00:16:18 --> 00:00:20:03

  with that boy was wrong and sad.

 

00:00:20:21 --> 00:00:23:13

It broke my heart and tore it in two.

 

00:00:24:10 --> 00:00:29:04

    Heal me. Cleanse our bodies.

         Heal our memories.

 

00:00:29:08 --> 00:00:31:15

   Erase these acts and thoughts

       from the book of life.

 

00:00:33:05 --> 00:00:36:01

        I love you so much.

  I hope one day you will heal me.

 

00:00:38:11 --> 00:00:41:19

    When he wrote this journal,

      Adrian was 19 years old.

 

00:00:41:23 --> 00:00:44:10

 He'd been an evangelical Christian

           for five years

 

00:00:44:13 --> 00:00:47:18

        and decided to start

        conversion therapy.

 

00:00:47:22 --> 00:00:50:11

     It took place in Maryland,

       in the United States,

 

00:00:50:14 --> 00:00:52:18

with an evangelical pseudo-therapist.

 

00:00:55:05 --> 00:00:58:08

  It struck me that several times,

 

00:00:58:11 --> 00:01:02:12

   the therapist repeated to me:

     "You're not a homosexual.

 

00:01:02:16 --> 00:01:04:18

      "That's not the problem.

        It's not a big deal.

 

00:01:04:22 --> 00:01:07:06

     "You're not a homosexual."

 

00:01:07:10 --> 00:01:13:16

        That view of things

  was so deeply rooted in my being

 

00:01:13:20 --> 00:01:20:19

     that I couldn't step back

     or take those ideas apart

 

00:01:20:23 --> 00:01:23:12

  to go back to a neutral vision,

            a new vision

 

00:01:23:16 --> 00:01:26:02

   of my sexuality and identity.

 

00:01:27:17 --> 00:01:30:10

      It took Adrian 15 years

        to rebuild himself.

 

00:01:30:13 --> 00:01:33:07

          Today, he's left

      the evangelical church.

 

00:01:33:11 --> 00:01:35:11

     We met him in Plainpalais,

 

00:01:35:15 --> 00:01:39:18

 at a church where the rainbow flag

     hangs alongside the cross.

 

00:01:40:17 --> 00:01:41:18

           This interview

 

00:01:41:22 --> 00:01:46:07

   marked the first time he spoke

in detail of his conversion therapy.

 

00:01:48:22 --> 00:01:50:01

          It makes me sad.

 

00:01:50:05 --> 00:01:57:10

         Because I realize

      how much I believed it.

 

00:01:57:13 --> 00:02:00:04

      At that time in my life,

    I could have said to myself

 

00:02:00:08 --> 00:02:04:19

 that these desires I had for a boy

 

00:02:04:23 --> 00:02:08:17

     may have simply been fine.

 

00:02:09:03 --> 00:02:13:03

   I could have been proud of it.

I could've had a loving relationship.

 

00:02:15:19 --> 00:02:20:04

BEING GAY AT CHURCH

 

00:02:21:11 --> 00:02:24:04

        Most major religions

       condemn homosexuality,

 

00:02:24:08 --> 00:02:26:14

            based mainly

     on a text from the Bible,

 

00:02:26:18 --> 00:02:28:19

          the description

       of Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

00:02:28:23 --> 00:02:32:08

   With heterosexuality put forth

    as the only acceptable path,

 

00:02:32:11 --> 00:02:35:19

     any deviation is rejected,

        sometimes brutally.

 

00:02:38:02 --> 00:02:40:00

    I think I was broken inside.

 

00:02:40:04 --> 00:02:45:18

I think my identity was taken from me

 

00:02:45:22 --> 00:02:48:00

     and shattered into pieces.

 

00:02:48:18 --> 00:02:50:13

        It took me 15 years

 

00:02:50:17 --> 00:02:53:21

to pick up the pieces of my identity

 

00:02:54:01 --> 00:02:56:01

     and become a person again.

 

00:02:58:03 --> 00:03:02:16

   I think it was actually abuse.

 

00:03:03:11 --> 00:03:08:11

 I think most young people who are

 going through what I went through

 

00:03:10:09 --> 00:03:15:08

  will not be able to emotionally

 and psychologically recover alone

 

00:03:15:11 --> 00:03:19:10

    without support and without

 a structure to help them rebuild.

 

00:03:20:14 --> 00:03:24:23

    How many in our country have

 been victims of these treatments?

 

00:03:27:18 --> 00:03:30:08

     Pink Cross, an association

      for gays in Switzerland,

 

00:03:30:11 --> 00:03:32:05

 is monitoring the issue from Bern.

 

00:03:32:09 --> 00:03:37:05

The practice of conversion therapies,

although discreet, is not uncommon.

 

00:03:39:11 --> 00:03:41:04

There are many cases in Switzerland.

 

00:03:41:08 --> 00:03:44:09

       I saw a study recently

         on Great Britain,

 

00:03:44:12 --> 00:03:46:12

 which was a fairly reliable study

 

00:03:46:16 --> 00:03:48:00

          on these cases.

 

00:03:48:04 --> 00:03:51:00

   It said that 2% of LGBT people

 

00:03:51:04 --> 00:03:53:11

    go to these kinds of people

 

00:03:53:14 --> 00:03:56:08

  for group or individual therapy.

 

00:03:56:11 --> 00:04:01:02

    In Switzerland, 2% would be

 between 16,000 and 14,000 people.

 

00:04:01:06 --> 00:04:04:06

      So it's a lot of people.

 

00:04:04:10 --> 00:04:06:11

    These people will have scars

             for life.

 

00:04:06:15 --> 00:04:09:08

       They'll have problems

          with themselves,

 

00:04:09:11 --> 00:04:10:19

      won't accept themselves,

 

00:04:10:23 --> 00:04:15:04

    and have a much higher rate

      of suicide than others.

 

00:04:15:08 --> 00:04:17:04

       So the effects remain.

 

00:04:18:01 --> 00:04:20:01

But they had to find specific cases.

 

00:04:20:15 --> 00:04:22:23

         In November 2018,

      Pink Cross began working

 

00:04:23:03 --> 00:04:25:08

         with a journalist

        from Gesundheitstipp

 

00:04:25:11 --> 00:04:28:00

          trying to catch

 a Schwyz psychiatrist in the act.

 

00:04:28:11 --> 00:04:32:03

         Six months later,

      the plan finally worked.

 

00:04:32:07 --> 00:04:37:17

    The first meeting took place

     in Küssnacht, in Lucerne.

 

00:04:37:21 --> 00:04:39:11

    Accompanying a fake patient,

 

00:04:39:14 --> 00:04:41:19

        the journalist went

       to see the therapist.

 

00:04:42:06 --> 00:04:43:20

   The doctor's words were clear.

 

00:04:44:23 --> 00:04:47:11

       "We will look together

    at what you like about men,

 

00:04:47:14 --> 00:04:49:12

"because that's what you're lacking.

 

00:04:49:16 --> 00:04:51:05

    "You must become a real man

 

00:04:51:09 --> 00:04:53:10

 "and feel good about being a man."

 

00:04:54:06 --> 00:04:57:19

     The psychiatrist even said

    that public health insurance

 

00:04:57:23 --> 00:04:59:20

would pay for the first 40 sessions,

 

00:05:00:00 --> 00:05:02:08

 or the first two years of therapy.

 

00:05:03:07 --> 00:05:04:13

      The most shocking thing

 

00:05:04:17 --> 00:05:06:17

is it's not just this psychiatrist.

 

00:05:06:21 --> 00:05:09:10

It's probably not an isolated case.

 

00:05:09:13 --> 00:05:12:04

   Insurance is paying for others

            to do this.

 

00:05:12:08 --> 00:05:14:17

     It means that many people

          in Switzerland,

 

00:05:14:21 --> 00:05:19:05

    you, me, are paying, through

 our taxes and insurance premiums.

 

00:05:19:09 --> 00:05:21:11

            We're paying

     these kinds of charlatans.

 

00:05:21:15 --> 00:05:22:22

       That's what they are.

 

00:05:23:02 --> 00:05:26:06

     They're ripping people off

 

00:05:26:10 --> 00:05:30:16

    and committing serious acts,

     because the scars remain.

 

00:05:30:20 --> 00:05:36:10

      They cause psychological

        and emotional pain.

 

00:05:36:13 --> 00:05:40:14

It's very difficult for us to accept.

 

00:05:42:13 --> 00:05:45:15

       We tried several times

   to speak to the psychiatrist.

 

00:05:45:19 --> 00:05:48:01

 We got a polite but firm refusal.

 

00:05:48:05 --> 00:05:50:22

  He said there's a media campaign

            against him.

 

00:05:53:23 --> 00:05:56:13

           But the doctor

    told us to watch this film,

 

00:05:56:17 --> 00:05:58:05

          which, he said,

 

00:05:58:09 --> 00:06:00:03

    presents his point of view.

 

00:06:00:17 --> 00:06:04:16

     The film producer, trained

   psychologist Joseph Nicolosi,

 

00:06:04:20 --> 00:06:08:16

is a figure in the very controversial

 world of "reintegration therapy."

 

00:06:10:18 --> 00:06:13:18

       What defines us is not

        who we have sex with

 

00:06:13:22 --> 00:06:16:14

       or our sexual desires.

       Those are our values.

 

00:06:17:09 --> 00:06:20:11

       Judaism, Christianity,

          Buddhism, Islam

 

00:06:20:15 --> 00:06:24:02

       and Greek philosophers

      like Socrates all agree.

 

00:06:24:06 --> 00:06:27:12

It is not our desires that define us.

         It is our values.

 

00:06:29:12 --> 00:06:32:03

 Setting a goal for psychotherapy,

 

00:06:32:07 --> 00:06:35:04

especially a goal related to values

          and ideologies,

 

00:06:35:08 --> 00:06:36:21

         is not acceptable.

 

00:06:37:01 --> 00:06:42:00

  I think there are probably many

 psychiatrists and psychotherapists

 

00:06:42:04 --> 00:06:46:01

  who are interested in patients'

spiritual and religious difficulties

 

00:06:46:05 --> 00:06:49:19

       but never with the aim

        of converting them.

 

00:06:51:02 --> 00:06:54:19

Jacques Besson has worked on the link

  between religion and psychiatry.

 

00:06:54:23 --> 00:06:57:09

      He is currently training

       the medical profession

 

00:06:57:12 --> 00:07:00:11

            on the link

 between spirituality and medicine.

 

00:07:02:14 --> 00:07:06:17

    The goal of psychotherapy is

 to increase the subject's autonomy

 

00:07:06:21 --> 00:07:08:19

            and freedom,

 

00:07:08:23 --> 00:07:12:10

   to help them find who they are

     deep inside, biologically,

 

00:07:12:13 --> 00:07:14:19

     psychologically, socially

          and culturally.

 

00:07:14:23 --> 00:07:17:14

  So obviously, conversion therapy

          makes no sense.

 

00:07:17:18 --> 00:07:21:22

       Psychiatric societies,

    international associations,

 

00:07:22:02 --> 00:07:25:22

    and diagnostic trouble codes

    in the WHO and United States

 

00:07:26:02 --> 00:07:29:22

    are absolutely not in favor

      of this type of therapy.

 

00:07:30:02 --> 00:07:34:06

       Forgive me the image,

 but it's a bit like brainwashing.

 

00:07:36:17 --> 00:07:40:16

      1970 was a historic year

   for the homosexual community.

 

00:07:40:20 --> 00:07:42:21

        Thousands of people

        took to the streets

 

00:07:43:01 --> 00:07:45:03

to commemorate the Stonewall riots.

 

00:07:45:20 --> 00:07:49:19

   Despite increasing visibility

        and hard-won rights,

 

00:07:49:23 --> 00:07:51:23

        it was only in 1992

 

00:07:52:03 --> 00:07:53:11

            that the WHO

 

00:07:53:14 --> 00:07:56:03

       removed homosexuality

 from its list of mental illnesses.

 

00:08:01:11 --> 00:08:03:20

       André is a homosexual

          and a Christian.

 

00:08:04:10 --> 00:08:06:05

     He came out late in life.

 

00:08:06:16 --> 00:08:09:16

 He was involved in an evangelical

      fundamentalist movement

 

00:08:10:07 --> 00:08:13:18

        where homosexuality

         was simply banned.

 

00:08:16:05 --> 00:08:22:23

        It was about a year

         before I came out.

 

00:08:23:03 --> 00:08:28:11

 I was encouraged to go to therapy.

 

00:08:31:12 --> 00:08:34:21

      I believed it somewhat,

  because I needed to believe it.

 

00:08:35:01 --> 00:08:40:03

       I knew that my social

and family life would be shattered.

 

00:08:40:07 --> 00:08:46:07

        I think my objective

  was to be saved from a situation

 

00:08:46:18 --> 00:08:49:01

     that I saw deteriorating.

 

00:08:49:05 --> 00:08:53:11

  I wanted to be able to continue

       living in the closet,

 

00:08:53:15 --> 00:08:56:02

   but it was no longer possible.

 

00:08:56:06 --> 00:09:00:20

      I think I saw it as help

 

00:09:01:00 --> 00:09:05:06

     in containing my reality.

 

00:09:05:16 --> 00:09:07:05

       In Neuchâtel, in 2015,

 

00:09:07:09 --> 00:09:11:04

  André was in a group conversion

 therapy called "Torrents of Life."

 

00:09:11:23 --> 00:09:12:20

           For 30 weeks,

 

00:09:13:05 --> 00:09:17:08

     around 40 people followed

   a program developed in the US.

 

00:09:18:20 --> 00:09:22:10

Swiss leaders of the movement refused

    our requests for interviews.

 

00:09:22:22 --> 00:09:24:14

As an idea of what he went through,

 

00:09:25:06 --> 00:09:27:23

 André showed us this American film

        released this year.

 

00:09:28:12 --> 00:09:30:03

   It was based on the true story

 

00:09:30:07 --> 00:09:32:03

of a homosexual boy and pastor's son.

 

00:09:32:14 --> 00:09:34:08

    André saw many similarities

 

00:09:34:11 --> 00:09:36:12

      with the type of therapy

           he underwent.

 

00:09:36:16 --> 00:09:38:12

   OK. In the meantime, pretend.

 

00:09:38:16 --> 00:09:39:15

       Be the man you're not.

 

00:09:39:19 --> 00:09:41:03

          Save your soul!

 

00:09:41:07 --> 00:09:42:01

           You want that?

 

00:09:42:15 --> 00:09:43:23

    Who will destroy the demon?

 

00:09:44:07 --> 00:09:45:04

              Hit him!

 

00:09:47:13 --> 00:09:51:13

 I thought I experienced something

    very different, much softer.

 

00:09:52:07 --> 00:09:56:13

    Yes, it was less aggressive.

     But as for the substance,

 

00:09:57:10 --> 00:10:00:06

      it was an exact replica

       of what I experienced.

 

00:10:00:10 --> 00:10:05:11

The basic premise, the manipulation,

 

00:10:05:14 --> 00:10:07:22

the seizing of power over a person.

 

00:10:08:02 --> 00:10:12:15

   You're talking about terrible

        psychological abuse.

 

00:10:12:19 --> 00:10:13:23

                Yes.

 

00:10:14:03 --> 00:10:19:05

               To me,

 it's serious psychological abuse.

 

00:10:22:02 --> 00:10:23:23

      The goal of the therapy

 

00:10:24:03 --> 00:10:29:02

       is to bring us around

    to healthy heterosexuality.

 

00:10:29:21 --> 00:10:33:15

   But the language is completely

       hidden and subversive.

 

00:10:33:19 --> 00:10:35:15

  Because when you are encouraged

 

00:10:35:19 --> 00:10:39:16

    and especially when you talk

         about it outside,

 

00:10:41:05 --> 00:10:43:22

   they avoid the term "healing."

 

00:10:45:23 --> 00:10:51:01

They avoid the term "reorientation."

     They just talk about help.

 

00:10:51:05 --> 00:10:54:09

When in fact, the notions of healing,

 

00:10:54:12 --> 00:10:57:22

     reorientation and control

 

00:10:58:02 --> 00:11:01:00

  are omnipresent in the therapy.

 

00:11:04:21 --> 00:11:07:22

    I lost my train of thought,

   because it really gets to me.

 

00:11:10:03 --> 00:11:11:19

    We're talking about trauma.

 

00:11:17:11 --> 00:11:19:09

    -Does it deeply affect you?

             -It does,

 

00:11:19:12 --> 00:11:24:17

        because this notion

      of restoring masculinity

 

00:11:24:21 --> 00:11:27:00

     means, "You're not a man."

 

00:11:27:04 --> 00:11:29:23

     They give you an extremely

        disparaging message

 

00:11:30:03 --> 00:11:33:05

      about your personality.

 

00:11:33:15 --> 00:11:39:03

 That may be one of the worst parts

        of these therapies.

 

00:11:39:07 --> 00:11:42:04

          They immerse you

 

00:11:42:08 --> 00:11:48:17

     in a vile bath of saying,

  "You're not who you should be."

 

00:11:50:14 --> 00:11:56:19

    Today, with the perspective

  that I've been fortunate to get,

 

00:11:56:23 --> 00:11:58:19

     I have no problem saying,

 

00:11:59:10 --> 00:12:03:00

   "Yes, I am gay and Christian."

 

00:12:08:09 --> 00:12:12:01

   Gay Pride celebrated its 50th

 anniversary this summer in Geneva.

 

00:12:12:05 --> 00:12:14:16

        Among the struggles

    of the homosexual community,

 

00:12:14:20 --> 00:12:17:22

  prohibiting conversion therapies

          has become key.

 

00:12:18:10 --> 00:12:21:16

The German and Austrian parliaments

    will legislate on the issue.

 

00:12:22:08 --> 00:12:26:00

     In Switzerland, awareness

    has clearly been raised too.

 

00:12:26:12 --> 00:12:28:23

        In June, PBD member

         Rosmarie Quadranti

 

00:12:29:03 --> 00:12:31:05

  filed a motion calling for a ban

 

00:12:31:09 --> 00:12:33:17

      on conversion therapies

         offered to minors.

 

00:12:34:09 --> 00:12:38:02

  It has a good chance of getting

  majority support in Parliament.

 

00:12:40:11 --> 00:12:43:20

      Today, people understand

         that homosexuality

 

00:12:44:00 --> 00:12:46:19

          is not a disease

     that needs to be treated.

 

00:12:47:10 --> 00:12:50:09

 You must be able to live your life

            as you wish.

 

00:12:50:12 --> 00:12:53:15

     These conversion therapies

      should no longer exist.

 

00:12:54:15 --> 00:12:57:18

          They are a crime

    against children and minors.

 

00:12:59:12 --> 00:13:02:14

   From the beginning, the motion

   had the Pink Cross's support.

 

00:13:02:18 --> 00:13:04:13

     Another aspect of the bill

 

00:13:04:17 --> 00:13:06:19

is prohibiting licensed professionals

 

00:13:06:23 --> 00:13:09:00

from practicing conversion therapy.

 

00:13:09:11 --> 00:13:11:16

That's an essential part of the bill.

 

00:13:11:20 --> 00:13:15:18

       It means we don't want

       licensed professionals

 

00:13:15:22 --> 00:13:18:10

to be able to provide this therapy.

 

00:13:23:04 --> 00:13:25:21

Banning it will send a clear signal

 

00:13:26:01 --> 00:13:28:18

      to groups that practice

          these therapies.

 

00:13:28:22 --> 00:13:33:00

It will be prohibited and punishable.

 

00:13:35:23 --> 00:13:38:00

 I think that's the big advantage.

 

00:13:38:04 --> 00:13:40:13

           Because today,

 this is happening in the shadows,

 

00:13:40:17 --> 00:13:42:15

 and we need to be firm about this.

 

00:13:42:19 --> 00:13:44:18

   This must not happen anymore.

 

00:13:49:22 --> 00:13:54:14

Adrian is now in charge of the LGBTI

   antenna of the LAB in Geneva.

 

00:13:55:09 --> 00:13:56:17

    He says political decisions

 

00:13:56:21 --> 00:13:59:13

         must be supported

     by efforts on the ground.

 

00:14:01:23 --> 00:14:05:10

   I promote the criminalization

of conversion therapy in Switzerland,

 

00:14:05:13 --> 00:14:09:05

    but I think it is essential

  to work on other fronts as well,

 

00:14:09:20 --> 00:14:15:02

     such as raising awareness

 

00:14:15:06 --> 00:14:18:20

       and having a dialogue

   with churches and institutions

 

00:14:19:00 --> 00:14:20:14

    who perform these therapies.

 

00:14:21:06 --> 00:14:22:13

     A second essential thing,

 

00:14:22:17 --> 00:14:25:13

       which is at the heart

     of what I'm trying to do,

 

00:14:25:17 --> 00:14:29:23

    is offering an alternative,

a platform that provides a framework

 

00:14:30:03 --> 00:14:34:17

 in which any young person can live

   with unconditional acceptance

 

00:14:34:21 --> 00:14:40:04

    of their sexual orientation

and spiritual and religious beliefs.

 

00:14:41:17 --> 00:14:45:21

 Adrian has found a balance between

   his identity and spirituality.

 

00:14:46:06 --> 00:14:47:09

       It took him 15 years,

 

00:14:48:00 --> 00:14:51:15

  years of suffering that he hopes

       to help others avoid.